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No see- this is a problem. PDC watched the thread for hours and could do nothing about it. Mods shouldn't have authority on only one board. It is impossible for one person who the section is assigned to, to be on 24/7. I have never seen another forum moderated this way and I find it ludicrous. It never would have gotten this bad in the first place if someone could have stepped in sooner.

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I thought mods could edit things across the board? I know they have sections they mostly focus on, but I could swear I’ve seen mods step in all over the place if things get too crazy.

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6 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

An apology is graciously accepted and I thank you both for it.

 

However, I still feel that the chat should not result in a petition, rather it should be a discussion location. The petition is really the worst part of this all; especially because it was going to be sent directly to TJ by a staff member when we non-alt owners had no staff member to write a petition for us. 

 

No one is objecting to alt owners having a space to discuss things away from all the drama - no one can begrudge them that. But it is not professional nor is it comfortable to think that a staff member will be trying to sway TJ on the basis of a small group of people. Especially when that staff member has stated that they wanted alts to be different if they were released (so they weren't like their exclusive originals), and given some very firm opinions on the subject.

 

I would feel much more comfortable if the moderators who have tried to keep things neutral (the forum moderators) were the ones to direct this chat, especially as some of you are also alt sprite owners, and if that's what it was all about, then I feel that would be far more appropriate.

 

I do think that it was "never meant to be completely exclusive" is a lot of backtracking, though. The Dragoness pointed out a forum made by Star herself where you needed to show proof of alt ownership, and Star stated herself that non-alt-owners would not be considered in the petition. Poor wording, knee-jerk reaction, whatever it was. I just want TJ to be aware of all the posts made by all sides and to see everything that was said, because there was definitely exclusivity attempted. I understand that you guys, as forum moderators, need to keep the peace and put on a good face for DC and make the situation seem better, and I appreciate that it's not easy. However, I hope TJ can see the full scope of the situation and bases his decision on everything that was posted.

I imagine TJ has powers to see posts and stuff the mods have had to remove? Or perhaps I am wrong about that?

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1 minute ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I thought mods could edit things across the board? I know they have sections they mostly focus on, but I could swear I’ve seen mods step in all over the place if things get too crazy.

 

I'm pretty sure only global mods can.. and I think the only global mod is inactive.

But the idea that there is only one mod assigned to one of the most active parts of the forum.. asking for trouble.

Edited by Dragon_Arbock

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10 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

That's the trouble though - it was never meant to be completely exclusive.  All it was meant to be was a place for people to go without being judged for owning something given out 8 years ago, while discussing the completely unexpected changes that affected dragons they currently own.  I own alts and had no idea this was even coming.

 

Again, I apologize for how things have blown up like this.  Nobody's perfect.

 

*passes out cookies*

 

Yes fair enough, and thanks for all your efforts  - but it is still very clear that the views of pink owners will be deleted when the info is pulled together.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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8 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

No see- this is a problem. PDC watched the thread for hours and could do nothing about it. Mods shouldn't have authority on only one board. It is impossible for one person who the section is assigned to, to be on 24/7. I have never seen another forum moderated this way and I find it ludicrous. It never would have gotten this bad in the first place if someone could have stepped in sooner.

 

Actually and to be fair - I have been on more than one forum where mods have their own areas. It means it is far easier for them to keep up and for things not to be missed. And TJ could have stepped in, come to that. He's been here and posted in other threads.

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Ugh I stink at words today.  What I'm trying to say is... I don't think it was ever meant to be mean-spirited.

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7 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I thought mods could edit things across the board? I know they have sections they mostly focus on, but I could swear I’ve seen mods step in all over the place if things get too crazy.

I actually can't unless the thread is unlocked. As I stated I have no actual power on forums.

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10 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I actually can't unless the thread is unlocked. As I stated I have no actual power on forums.

 

It was the forum mods I was wondering about :) if it’s true that only global mods can edit across the board, appointing a new one or two might be a good idea. I miss Sock...

 

Your apology is appreciated. For what it’s worth I didn’t think there was some grand Alt Sweetling owner conspiracy to sabotage anyone, but at the same time I didn’t think steering discussion away from the forums to a private chat was a good idea regardless.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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1 minute ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I miss Sock...

 

Me too.

 

Sectionals can only do actions in their own sections.  It lets you focus on areas you know, and not have to worry about those you do not.  However, I never mind another team member asking for things to simmer down if I'm not here and things are getting hairy.

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7 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

It was the forum mods I was wondering about :) if it’s true that only global mods can edit across the board, appointing a new one or two might be a good idea. I miss Sock...

 

Your apology is appreciated. For what it’s worth I didn’t think there was some grand Alt Sweetling owner conspiracy to sabotage anyone, but at the same time I didn’t think steering discussion away from the forums to a private chat was a good idea regardless.

I DO Wonder if ADP is right about this and selecting a new global mod might be a wise idea. 

ESPECIALLY if the ones in charge of sections are limited in what they are allowed to do.

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A number of people are/were justifiably upset here, so let me take a moment to address some things:

  • Mistakes were made. This has already been acknowledged.
  • The sweetling chat is not, was not, and never would have been "official" in any way. Nothing that would have happened there could have any more gravity than things posted on the forums, and no actual decisions could have been made—so to call it an "official decision-making chat" is a bit disingenuous. To quote: "Even in the performance of their modly duties, staff only represent the site in a limited manner". The mods put in amazing amounts of effort, but as has come up, they only really have dominion over their specific areas.
  • This doesn't change that the thread was given preferential treatment that it shouldn't have (e.g. pinning the thread), which gives the appearance of authority/officiality. That's already been corrected, so there's nothing left to do but apologize (which it looks like has already happened).
  • To expand on the above, while mod actions are generally held to a higher quality standard than others, mods are also allowed to do things as normal people outside of being mods. I mean, I even run an unofficial "third party" records site.
  • If you have issues with some action someone has done, I recommend trying to talk to that person and work it out. Everyone involved is (I believe) human, with emotions and the capability for rational thought. Jumping directly over their heads and/or going straight to "public outrage" is going to be inherently less productive than talking to someone directly to understand their perspective and share your own. As I understand it, not one person reached out to Starscream.

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The problem seems to have gone right by you, TJ, unfortunately. The fact that the chat could be taken as "official," or "decision-making," while certainly an issue that could have occurred, was not the problem. The problem was that Star claimed she was going to use her moderation powers to create a petition with the voices of alt owners and deliver it to you. The petition claim was the problem. The claim of excluding certain users was the problem. 

 

Star was talking on the thread the entire time, and only continued to reiterate that non-alt-owners would not get a say, a petition would be made, and it would go directly to you. She was talking directly to multiple users the entire time - unless you mean reaching out via PM, but why is that necessary?

 

What are you supposed to do when moderators are the problem? Ordinarily, if you have a problem with someone in a position of authority, and they don't seem to be budging on something you're not comfortable with, that is when you go above their heads. Multiple users attempted to speak to Star before (at least, before the ones I know to have reached out to you) contacting you. 

 

I know an apology is all you can really do in cases like this, but I think it's kind of a problem that you don't seem to acknowledge what the actual issue was: Star claiming she was going to use her position to send a petition based on the opinions of owners of an exclusive sprite to you. Whether it came out wrong or wasn't intended to be that way, that's what was said. That is the problem. 

 

We won't know if anything happened behind the scenes, and frankly that's likely not any of the userbase's business to begin with. However, I can't not say anything when it seems the real core of the issue was so blatantly missed. 

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It was a big problem (that’s why we’re here!) but apologies have been given and things undone. Mods are human. I imagine this won’t happen again and I’m content. :) 

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Lots of discussion about this happened behind the scenes. I apologize for my role in fueling the fires here. I did what I thought was right, and it turned out to be wrong.

 

If my moderation powers are removed for this, I'll accept that. One of the reasons I wanted to be a moderator here in the first place was to help foster a better environment between mods and members, I remember when it used to be members vs. the mods. I seem to have forgotten that in the midst of what happened yesterday, and I'm sorry.

 

As has been stated, only Global mods can edit all sections. Had I had Help mod authority, the thread would have been shut down several pages before an exclusive Chat was even suggested, but I don't. 

 

I'm sorry to the community. 

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Nah, PDC, you didn't do anything wrong. You and LL were just trying to keep the peace. I would be exceptionally sad if either of you were reprimanded for this; TJ was absent, to our knowledge, and an IRC mod seemed to have a solution that would work for a hurt subset. You only did what you could do. 

 

You're not the staff member in the wrong here; I honestly don't think anyone thinks that. 

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@purpledragonclaw rather, I hope your mod powers are updated rather than removed! We all make mistakes, and I think you and others have done a good job correcting them. Hopefully all this crazy will have a positive outcome in the end by showing we might need a fresh global mod! :D 

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7 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

Lots of discussion about this happened behind the scenes. I apologize for my role in fueling the fires here. I did what I thought was right, and it turned out to be wrong.

 

If my moderation powers are removed for this, I'll accept that. One of the reasons I wanted to be a moderator here in the first place was to help foster a better environment between mods and members, I remember when it used to be members vs. the mods. I seem to have forgotten that in the midst of what happened yesterday, and I'm sorry.

 

As has been stated, only Global mods can edit all sections. Had I had Help mod authority, the thread would have been shut down several pages before an exclusive Chat was even suggested, but I don't. 

 

I'm sorry to the community. 

I don't think anybody blames you. Seems we really NEED a global mod, then.

 

:ph34r:'d by ADP!

Edited by JavaTigress

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I'm blaming myself here for my part in this. Pinning the topic was completely inappropriate on my part and made it look like an official chat from TJ. It was not, and that was where I abused my authority. The road to hell is paved with the best intentions.

 

Thank you for the support, I will step away for a few hours. I need to think about how I can become a better mod from all this.

 

Please continue to leave me feedback, positive and negative, it only helps me grow.

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Also again, I am sorry for my part in this also.  I think there was a giant misunderstanding on all sides.

 

That being said...

cone of shame.jpg

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Take a deep breath and relax, go do something nice to get your thoughts sorted out. :) We all make mistakes, but mistakes are there so that we could learn from them!

 

Also thank you TJ for finally showing up and clarifying things for us all. :D I cracked up a little when you said how we're all (hopefully) human.

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I know you said that you're stepping away, @purpledragonclaw, but I think you've always been an excellent mod. Last night you handled the drama in the Sweetling thread in a very professional way. And on top of that, I really appreciated the PM you sent me. I've never received a message like that from a mod before, and I admire that you stepped forward to help people. Please don't blame yourself.

 

And @LadyLyzar, thank you as well for monitoring the thread and doing your best to keep it civil. It wasn't your fault that chaos went down while you were away.

 

Everyone makes mistakes. Let's just all relax here.

Edited by The Dragoness

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