We want Forum Feedback!

[whitebaron]

Personally I would *love* if maybe TJ built a new forum himself. I feel like it would be much easier to control at that point, but it's a lot of work so of course he doesn't have to if he thinks it's too much or just doesn't want to.

"a lot of work" *snarks*

 

The whole of DC is a lot less work than a full fledged forums system. I estimate the factor to be about 10.

 

 

[edwardelricfreak]

"a lot of work" *snarks*

 

The whole of DC is a lot less work than a full fledged forums system. I estimate the factor to be about 10.

I imagine, which is why I thought it would be a lot of work. It would be a really big project and take a lot of time. It's something to dream about but I don't see it happening any time soon.

[Fuzzbucket]

There is other forum software which I am sure TJ could adapt. I'm on a few forums which work well, and which are run by people with NO tech savvy at all.

 

What I would like would be the facility to block POSTS from individual members.... Some people do bring out the worst in me...

[olympe]

Okay, another piece of forum feedback. This is about the Take an Egg, Leave an Egg thread. I really liked this place, because it was a place where you could get really nice dragons without having to trade for them. It was also a good place to go if you had something nice that you didn't need if you wanted to see where these things would go.

 

But it looks like this wonderful thread will be permanently closed:

 

This topic is closed for continuing to call out members, chat and trading instead of gifting.

 

I agree on the calling out, it got out of hand. However, closing a thread permanently is not the answer IMHO. There are other ways to stop people from doing this. Mods, you've got warns and temp-bans at your disposal - why punish everyone because some people won't abide by the rules?

 

Chat did occur, but most often in posts that also contributed to the thread in some way or other, usually by "Leaving" eggs. And, once again, I don't think that closing a whole thread permanently is a good way to stop chat. Delete the offending posts, even warn the offenders if you have to. (I've been warned for less.) If necessary, close the thread temporarily. But don't punish everyone because some people didn't follow the rules by the letter.

 

Now, the last point: Trading instead of gifting. The only "good enough" reason that this thread could be closed permanently - if it were true.

 

However, the so-called "trading" occurred in the form of asking for dummy eggs. These "dummy eggs" are defined in the thread as follows:

When you offer something on a two way trade, it should be a dummy egg. A dummy egg is something from the AP with a messy lineage or aspect which makes it invaluable. You should not offer your leaving gift or a nicely linaged egg/hatchling on the trade. Two way trades are used to prevent theft, not to trade. Players using two way trades should accept the first posters offer if it complies with your request. Also, you cannot request a specific type of dummy egg such as CB only, or pretty lineage only.

 

How is that trading? Especially with the underlined part as another rule?

 

Seriously, I'm really pissed about the way this situation has been handled. Because it looks like some made-up reason is being given for a permanent closure of a thread that I liked very much.

Edited October 9, 2014 by olympe

[EclipseDraculine]

*snip for length*

Seconded.

[Ha-Ki]

True, if a thread is about taking a gift and leaving another one, there must be a way to make sure that gifts are not stolen, and using two-way teleports is the easiest thing to do.

I only participated in the thread a couple of times, but still it's a pity if it's closed forever.

 

How about a change of rules, like this one: To leave an egg, you post a lineage link only. A gift is claimed by quoting the post, saying you want to claim it and leave a gift (lineage link only) for the next person. The teleport is then sent out via pm.

That way, there's no two-way-teleports involved that could be mistaken for trading. And if people have to post to claim a gift, there's also a way of telling who was first.

 

Just an idea to keep the thread running...

[Fiona]

The basic premise of the thread was a fun one. I've participated a number of times, leaving nice eggs for people to help themselves to. The problem is enforcement. The way things were originally set up there's no way to make sure someone leaves something for the thread when they take something, so there were a number of people treating it like the departures thread. That is, see yummy, take yummy, go on their merry way. That upset quis quite a bit, understandably. It's not the vision for how the thread would work.

 

Posting lineage links then PMing a claim link to the first person who posts a lineage link to gift to the thread might work ok, but involves a lot more involvement on people's part. The idea of the thread is a chain, almost game like, of sharing fun stuff.

 

One thing I have to say. The whole idea of dictating what people can do with your "gift" sits wrong with me. You gave the egg or hatchling away. It isn't yours anymore to tell people what to do with it. One hopes that if they accepted the gift it's because it's something they wanted enough to not just kill it, but it's still theirs. I didn't care for the increasing tendency for people to put conditions on their gifts. If it matters to you what people do with it after it's theirs trade it in a trade thread or something.

 

The whole thing of accusing others of stealing when they took eggs without posting something in return, and verbally trashing the people who did it was inappropriate, in my opinion. Yes, they violated the principals and purpose of the thread. It wasn't stealing though if you put up a one-way link. You put the egg out there for anyone, even though you had an expectation that the anyone would in turn leave something for others in return. It's selfish on their part, but not stealing.

[olympe]

I'm not trying to cover for anyone who did call out someone or other. I was told that a lot of it happened and got deleted by mods. However, I can understand how and why this happened.

 

Regarding "stealing": What happened might not be "stealing" according to DC rules, but it was "stealing" according to the thread rules. (As in: You "forgot" to leave something in return.) Which is why so many people resorted to two-way transfers. The result: The thread is closed permanently because it's suddenly supposed to be a "trading thread".

 

Of course, I know that we cannot tell people what to do with eggs on their scroll. However, I can also understand if people ask for their gift to be treated with care. If someone gifts you a vase, you're not going to smash it to pieces, are you? At least not on purpose. And if you did, you'd expect the gifter to be upset about your behavior.

[Fiona]

You shouldn't feel the need to tell them anything about what happens to it after it's not on your scroll anymore, in my opinion. "Treating with care" is a matter of opinion. People in the thread were saying "don't bite, don't kill, don't freeze don't..." as if they had the right to dictate that with something that was intended to be a free gift. In my book, free doesn't mean with strings, and they had all kinds of strings. Then, if whoever took the egg did something they specifically said not to, like try to turn it into zombie fodder, they were all upset.

 

I'm sad the thread is closed. It was a fun idea. People who were taking things weren't respecting the idea behind the thread, and that's sad. People who were trying to use the thread as proposed were getting all upset because it wasn't being respected, but they were also trying to use the thread in a way that wasn't really it's purpose either - that is, to dictate what was done with the eggs after someone else owned them.

 

I think it the thread were to be reopened or recreated it would have to be handled in a different way, with different rules. That's something I'd like to see. Some of the rules I think would have to be different would be the idea of posting lineage links instead of claim links or trade links. Others would be you can't dictate what they do with the egg once it's theirs.

[F.ury]

Okay, another piece of forum feedback. This is about the Take an Egg, Leave an Egg thread. I really liked this place, because it was a place where you could get really nice dragons without having to trade for them. It was also a good place to go if you had something nice that you didn't need if you wanted to see where these things would go.

 

But it looks like this wonderful thread will be permanently closed:

 

 

 

How is that trading? Especially with the underlined part as another rule?

 

Seriously, I'm really pissed about the way this situation has been handled. Because it looks like some made-up reason is being given for a permanent closure of a thread that I liked very much.

Yes. This. Bring back TAE LAE! This was the only place where I was able to get rare dragons without breeding them myself and TAE LAE has really helped my scroll grow. Most of the people in the TAE LAE community are very friendly and want to share their eggs with others. In my opinion, TAE LAE was easily the best place to get nice eggs and share your nice eggs with others. TGT and Breeding, Gifting are great for specific requests but they are very different from TAE LAE. The Community Notice Board is a good place to give away eggs/hatchlings but it's pretty hard to grab nice things because they go so fast. There are also a lot of people looking to take things on the Community Notice Board and not very many looking to leave things.

 

I have the following ideas on how TAE LAE can be improved and how the things that the DC moderators are bothered by can be fixed:

 

First of all, TAE LAE needs its own forum account. That way, TAE LAE can have actual thread moderators to deal with any issues that arise. There will be a new rule that says that you can only put something on a two way trade if it's a rare egg (metals, trios, avatars, unbreedables, Thuwed, Dorkface, brand new releases, holiday, etc.) or any hatchling. Or, if the mods are completely uncomfortable about the idea of two way trades with a dummy, users can ask people to PM them for the one way transfer link if the egg/hatchling is a high theft item. If you are offering a common or uncommon egg that does not have a particularly rare lineage, you must leave it on a one way transfer!

If you have left something on the thread and you notice that someone takes it without leaving anything, wait 24 hours to see if the user who took it leaves something. Any user who publicly calls out someone who takes without leaving or posts a public complaint about people taking without leaving is grey listed and temp-banned from the thread for a week! If the "thief" does not leave something within 24 hours, then you can send a PM to TAE LAE and explain what happened. Then TAE LAE will PM the thief and send a friendly reminder to please leave something for the thread. Only TAE LAE moderators can send reminder PMs to "thieves" and they can only do so through the TAE LAE account! Any non moderator who sends a reminder PM to a "thief" will be grey listed and temp banned from TAE LAE for a week! This should stop any potential "thieves" from being harassed. If the "thief" does not respond to the reminder PM from TAE LAE within 48 hours, the "thief" receives their first strike. Strikes will be kept track of privately by TAE LAE thread moderators and will not be listed on the TAE LAE thread! If a "thief" wants to get rid of their strike, they can post on TAE LAE and leave two things, one to replace the item they took and one to erase their strike. Strikes do not go away with time, the only way to get rid of them is by leaving an extra egg/hatchling to erase them. If a "thief" receives a strike, does nothing about it, and takes another egg without leaving, they will go through the same exact process a second time. If the "thief" receives a second strike, they will be grey listed and temp banned for 2 weeks. After their temporary ban period is over, the "thief" can post in TAE LAE again and erase both of their strikes if they'd like. If a "thief" has received 2 stikes, went through the temp ban period, does nothing about their strikes, and proceeds to take yet another egg without leaving, the process repeats itself. If a "thief" receives a third strike they will be black listed and permanently banned from TAE LAE forever. If any user (this includes "thieves" and people who have publicly called out other users) is caught posting in TAE LAE or taking anything from TAE LAE while they are grey listed, they will be permanently black listed and banned from TAE LAE forever. Any user who has 3 separate occurrences of publicly calls out other users and/or sending reminder PMs to potential "thieves" will be blacklisted from TAE LAE forever!

 

Questions? Comments? Concerns? Would something like this work to bring back TAE LAE? Obviously, this exact system does not have to be implemented but I think something like this could potentially be a solution. What does everyone else think about this?

[Obscure_Trash]

-snip-

We were getting multiplr reports every single week not only on call outs (for which the thread was temp closed for several times in the past and has a giant mod post on it) but also on users trading in the thread. Asking for specific "dummies". Even with warning/PMing, reports have stayed steady on these. Users asking for trades is something we had been getting more and more reports on.

 

I think if users hash out a better way to handle the thread, a new topic may be considered. I am not promising it will be, but if you worked out a new system, then maybe. But what we had now definitely wasn't working for many.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I participated in that thread a few times, but I was uncomfortable with all the restrictions. Wasn't worth the headache to me, I'd rather just use the Departures thread. No strings, no after effects, no worries. If you're going to give something away, just do it.. don't try to get something in return (dummy eggs), or try to dictate what the new owner can and can't do. If you're gifting it, let it be a gift, period.

[Amazon_warrior]

I participated in that thread a few times, but I was uncomfortable with all the restrictions. Wasn't worth the headache to me, I'd rather just use the Departures thread. No strings, no after effects, no worries. If you're going to give something away, just do it.. don't try to get something in return (dummy eggs), or try to dictate what the new owner can and can't do. If you're gifting it, let it be a gift, period.

TBH, this is why I never bothered with the TAE LAE thread. (So *that's* what that acronym means!) If I have something nice I want to gift to someone random rather than to someone specific, I drop it on one of the Departures threads or make a post on the EG trades&gifts thread and ask that people PM me if they want what I'm offering, first PM gets it. It's nice if they look after it and don't trade it on or whatever, but I can't enforce that. *shrug* (Though I can always exercise my right not to gift them anything else if they did decide to trade it without asking me first; anything else doesn't bother me overly much...)

Edited October 9, 2014 by Amazon_warrior

[Fiona]

F.ury, one problem with what you're suggesting is that people often didn't have any idea who took the egg. The only clue would be if their scroll name was on the egg view page and the same as their forum name. So what you're suggesting wouldn't really fix it.

 

The whole "restrictions" thing could be handled by making that a thread rule. If you post an egg there it's with the understanding that the person who receives it can do as they like with it. Harder to solve is people taking things and not leaving something. I don't think two-ways were a good solution. Ha-ki's idea sounds like the most viable to me, if people would be ok with the extra work required to gift things to people.

[olympe]

If I have something nice I want to gift to someone random rather than to someone specific, I drop it on one of the Departures threads or make a post on the EG trades&gifts thread and ask that people PM me if they want what I'm offering, first PM gets it.

That's pretty complicated as you have to look in various threads if you want to find something you might want to be gifted. TAE LAE was much simpler as you had only one thread to browse. And, of course, gift something back.

 

~~~

 

Personally, I think that things can be handled differently than F.ury's suggestion implies. However, I'm quite fond of the "strike system". However, I think we need two kinds of strikes: One kind for "thieves" who should leave two eggs/hatchies in order to erase their strike and one kind for all other offenders who'd have to leave one egg/hatchie and do something else like writing an apology in the thread.

 

First of all, only use two-way teleports. Not in order to trade, but in order to keep track of things. Where does your egg go? Does that person actually leave something for the thread?

 

Of course, as a gifter, you cannot "ask" for any kind of egg apart from a "dummy". I think that, if someone abuses TAE LAE for trading purposes, they should get a temp ban just like a "thief" or someone who calls out other users. Even "gifting" through PM couldn't prevent people from demanding certain kinds of "dummies" for their eggs, so it only adds a complication to an already complicated procedure for no gain. Additionally, with the two-way teleports, you can actually see in the thread who should have gotten the egg in question. Anybody not complying with this should get a strike (as suggested by F.ury).

 

I agree, though, that TAE LAE needs a forum account and as many mods as you can get. The more people who work on this, the less work it is for a single person. However, I'd have to ask for help with people who're actually being blacklisted. There's no way to make sure someone who got blacklisted actually stays out. I also think that there should be pre-arranged copy&paste messages for all kinds of PMs the TAE_LAE-account would need to send - from "gentle reminders" to the exact wording of warns/temp bans or permanent bans. Just to make sure everybody sends the same kind of non-offensive messages.

[Ayelldee]

Isn't the simplest gifting place the AP?

[djengis]

I loved that thread, i actually got my very first CB copper there, first shimmer, Tinsel , gold and Silver. Very first trio's actually too.

Lately i havent gone in there much anymore.

I always try to leave Nice things when taking something , always leave my gifts on a one way teleport. And i dont mind 5 out of 6 4th or 5th gen prizes being taken without a word. What i do mind is people picking up random messy ap stuff and leaving them there after snagging 2nd gen metals and low gen prizes.

I know not Everyone can breed and leave Nice stuff, i sure couldnt at first, but its easy to hatch some low time CB eggs and post CB hatchies, people love hatchies. Not the messy stuff no one Will touch with a broomstick.

[olympe]

Not really. Yes, you can send stuff to the AP, and you'll probably make someone's day. But, like with the cave, the AP serves only the fastest clicker in the bunch.

 

Another thing I really liked about TAE LAE was that not only could you always find someone who'd take and love the eggs from your special breeding projects, you could also find neat stuff you wouldn't be able to get any other way. (I've done quite a bit of AP-stalking - and yet, I've seen maybe two or three metallics/tinsels/shimmers in the last 6 months. I guess my online time doesn't match the time all that neat stuff goes to the AP.) As others have pointed out already, the Departures thread moves very quickly, so it's a matter of kind of living in the thread. This wasn't the case with TAE LAE, probably because of the two-way teleports. (Stuff on one-way teleports got picked up in the blink of an eye, too. Very often by people who had their scroll name hidden and not left anything in return. Which kind of spoils all the fun for other people involved.)

[Amazon_warrior]

That's pretty complicated as you have to look in various threads if you want to find something you might want to be gifted. TAE LAE was much simpler as you had only one thread to browse. And, of course, gift something back.

...and the rules 'n' regs of the TAE LAE thread aren't complicated? Not to mention all the stuff that people want/need to bolt on so that "person X can take this egg, but person Y can't." Also, "choosing" a gift implies a kind of entitlement to me, but the other gifting threads pretty much say what they're likely to contain so there's a choice right there. Eh, maybe I just don't "get" gifting threads, I never relied on them (or wanted to), not even as a newbie who couldn't catch the shiny stuff...

[Ponie]

I also really enjoyed the TAE thread and would like to see it return. While I didn't mind the no kill/bite/neglect rules, I'd be willing to give them up in exchange for getting the thread back. And I personally do consider taking an egg for free stealing, but I agree the complaints about it were getting out of hand. Honestly, whining in general was an issue, not just about stealing, but about how the thread was run, people not taking certain eggs, etc.

 

So I'm going to propose the simplest solution. First, make a thread mod, who can delete posts that don't follow the rules and blacklist repeat offenders. Second, ban all chat in the thread. You post what you're taking, put up the transfer link for what you're leaving and you're done. Any additional commentary will be deleted and you may be warned. If you think your egg is at risk of theft, put up a two-way with no additional stipulations. Add universal two-way instructions to the intro post instead. If anything, I'd advocate getting rid of the one-way option, as that seems to be where the bulk of problems occur but that could also make the thread run slower. I'll miss the chatting, as I did really like the community most of the time, but would rather have a somewhat more stilted thread than no thread at all.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Ponie

[ewi]

TAE LAE was my first and thus favourite thread here on Forum, this simple idea of giving cool eggs to people who ALSO give cool eggs, positive energy, not a lot of hustle, and not feeling like you are participating in a trade, like someone wants to gain something off you, it was something special. I was quite sad when someone decided it should be closed. I'm new here and to be honest I don't get why chatting or "vocalizing" your concern about someone fulfilling (or not fulfilling) thread rules is seen here as a crime. I guess the idea behind TAE LAE was to make it more personal than simply tossing eggsto the AP and to make it easier and faster than in trading threads. Is anything really wrong with that?

 

 

[Torkie10]

*Sigh*

 

I was around when TELE first came around. I spoke with Quis a lot with suggestions and ideas over the year, and have spoken with Pippy a little as well. I still remember how exciting it was to get involved in the project, and how much I liked the idea. I didn't like the Departures thread, for various reasons, and TELE was something different, a game of sorts with a "pay-it-forward" aspect. That's what drew me in and why I stayed.

 

I do not like how it's been being used for trades as of late. The whole two-way transfers was suggested to prevent theft, but I've always used PMs as the alternative. It is more involved on my part, but only slightly more so than two-way transfers would be anyway! It's either checking my PM box or checking my Active Transfers, there really isn't that much of a difference in effort.

 

As far as suggestions go, I agree that the Lineage links and PM system is a good idea. I've used it in the past and it's always worked very well for me. It's enabled me to keep studious records, in fact, which I keep on file.

 

Regarding treatment of the gifts, I refrain from suggestions. As a breeder, I personally liked the idea of being able to ask people not to kill or throw away the eggs. But if people find it that much a hassle, it's certainly worth reconsidering.

 

 

 

I'm getting the feeling, though, that people aren't as interested in the actual purpose as they were previously. A number of people browsing treat it like Departures, some people posting treat it like Trading V2, and there are just a lot of complaints that it isn't like some other thread. It's not meant to be like Departures, that was the whole point!

 

Should the thread start up again, I think those running it should have some capacity to enforce things themselves, rather than having to ask a mod for help every single time. It would appear that is a sore point for the mods and has had pretty significant negative repercussions as a result.

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Nuke it and start a fresh thread.

No sense in re-useing an old thread.

[Fuzzbucket]

TBH, this is why I never bothered with the TAE LAE thread. (So *that's* what that acronym means!) If I have something nice I want to gift to someone random rather than to someone specific, I drop it on one of the Departures threads or make a post on the EG trades&gifts thread and ask that people PM me if they want what I'm offering, first PM gets it. It's nice if they look after it and don't trade it on or whatever, but I can't enforce that. *shrug* (Though I can always exercise my right not to gift them anything else if they did decide to trade it without asking me first; anything else doesn't bother me overly much...)

Me too, I'm afraid. I tried once in the TAE LAE - and got told I was doing it wrong. And as I really only wanted to LAE, I - left !

[olympe]

Nuke it and start a fresh thread.

No sense in re-useing an old thread.

Just starting a new thread will result in instant closure because threads in the trading section need mod approval. Which, right now, this kind of thread doesn't have.

 

Part of why I started this discussion is trying to find a way to restart or re-use this thread. Since I alone don't have all the answers, much less the tenacity to contact various mods about it whenever I do come up with one, I hoped to get input from other players and some mods in here.