Trader's Canyon

[olympe]

Getting one raffle ticket was done in a matter of 5 minutes, maybe 10 if you were slow. For 14 days, that equates 1:10 h to 2:20 h. That's not exactly something I'd call an effort.

 

As has been suggested before, I'm also for a weekly cap instead of a daily cap for points. It just allows for more flexibility.

 

Even though I, personally, am not against shop-exclusives, I see that this suggestion has great potential to put pressure on people to actually play a mini game they might not at all be interested in. So, I'd rather keep only already existing breeds in the shop.

 

So, what should be in the shop? (Assumed all shop dragons are locked to their owners scroll: No abandoning, no trading.)

1. common (spitfire...)and uncommon (trio...) dragons from the cave: Most definitely - after all, why not? Uncommons should be priced so that you cannot get too many of them. Maybe 1 uncommon per month? YES, absolutely!
2. rares: Personally, I'd like it. The prices would have to be exorbitant, though, and there should be a limit as to how many you can get. Whether this limit should be set in stone (Only one gold per scroll ever!) or be reset over time (Only one gold per scroll every year!) needs to be discussed. Please also stop to consider that every 2 (or so) golds given out to one user are one CB prize they don't get. (Assuming that the price of a prize dragon is twice that of a gold.) YES, but with stipulations.
3. CB hybrids/alts/breed-only varieties: I think so, yes. But probably also with a cap as to how many you can get, depending on ratios. (Come to think of it, hybrids don't seem to be that rare, and alts could work on a ratio that didn't depend on the overall number of dragons of that kind.) Again, it's worth discussing whether the cap has to stay the same forever or whether it can be reset after a certain amount of time. YES, with stipulations.
4. GoN, CB avatars: I really am not sure about this. Yes, getting a GoN can be almost impossible if you're really unlucky. The question is whether TJ's most recent changes here are successful in helping people "get there" or not. In any case, I'm not totally opposed to CB GoNs for really a lot of points, but I'm not sure whether GoNs and Avatars should be added. "Buying" a GoN seems like it's contrary to the GoN's "special" nature. If they do get added, though, scroll limits for GoNs should still apply, and some (2/breed) for CB avatars should be added, too.Maybe?
5. CB holidays of past years: Maybe. I'd prefer if they were only available during the regular breeding window of their respective breed, that CB scroll limits for Winter Holiday and V-Day dragons would have to count for them. For Halloweens, I'm not sure whether a limit should be put in effect. (You can only ever buy 2 of those...) Also, I'm not sure whether there should be a way to obtain SA or Sweetlings of a variety you wouldn't normally be able to have. MAYBE - only with stipulations
6. Unobtainables (frill, bright pink, old gold sprite...): Same as for the raffle would work best, I guess. Under current rules, that means YES for frills and NO for both BP and old gold (Even though I'd love to add them to both raffle and shop if TJ and the artists agree.) I don't know how expensive frills should be, though: They were created as commons ("blocker-common" - literally!), yet are retired.
7. Prize breeds: This one might be the most difficult to decide. More CB prizes might mean less trouble for owners due to decreased trading value (higher supply), more options for lineage breeding. There is the additional trouble of getting a shiny egg out of them. However, prizes would be "less special because everyone could have one or more". I'm not sure whether that would be such a bad thing, though. (Does winning a lottery entitle you to something that stays exclusive ever after?) Overall, I'm slightly in favor - but we could also try the shop idea without them. But IF they are put into the shop, we need to make sure they cost a fortune and that there is a cap (two of each variety per scroll, only one prize per year?). Raffle-won prizes shouldn't be counted towards these limits, which makes them a little bit more special than earned prizes. MAYBE - and only with strict stipulations
8. Shop-exclusives: I don't think so because it would take away from the basis of the game. Suddenly, there are dragons you cannot get from hunting. Unless it's a breed that proves very common - and yet, there's the question of whether that would be a good idea. Probably better NOT.
9. Out-of-season seasonals: No idea. On the one hand, they are still available in the cave if you're willing to wait. On the other hand, this would be contrary to their nature, and suggestion to make seasonals available out of season have always been controversial at best and shot down at worst. Probably NO.

Edited January 13, 2015 by olympe

[Thuban]

Question...

 

Would points expire or, if a person had something specific they wanted to save for ( like CB Holiday of somekind for example) could they save up all year long and get it when it was available?

No, points rollover and save up, just like a bank account (except we dont have bills draining them constantly... Grrrrrrr)

 

Rubyeyes: If it has a limit on how many can be bought, and the limit is reached, then it is simply removed from view. If it cant be obtained because of breeding window restrictions, then it probably only shows up during that window, and no other time. Im not a fan of clutter. Its available, or it isnt. If its not for whatever reason, it wont be listed. I have not considered adding time limits to things being offered in the store outside of holidays.

 

 

Im cool with things you can't afford yet showing up, but if it isnt available to YOU specifically, there is no reason for it to show up in the store.

[Ruby Eyes]

@olympe: I think you didn't finish paragraph d? Although I'd say Avatars are hybrids, too.

 

 

@Thuban: I've just developed a headache out of the blue and cannot think so well currently, so I cannot really tell you anymore where I was trying to go with this. I'll probably just agree with you

Edited January 13, 2015 by Ruby Eyes

[olympe]

Oops. Took care of that.

[Fuzzbucket]

@fuzzbucket: You didn't collect your 14 tickets this season then?

Yes I did. That is what I'm saying though - ANYONE can enter a raffle once a year. I wish it didn't exist, though I would be both insane and a liar if I said I wouldn't accept a prize - but for a few moments a day, just once a year for two weeks, anyone can do it. The events - Hallowe'en too - are OCCASIONAL fun.

 

And all the dragons in the raffle CAN be got by anyone with almost no effort - it's basically blind luck. It's not quite the same as having an ongoing store, running all the time, where - as I say - you WOULD get people saying "hey nothing new to buy lately" and people feeling they HAD to keep working at minigames and stuff if they are to keep up with the basic game.

 

I dont quite understand what you are saying here.

 

This suggestion has been MOSTLY about the available raffle prizes, HMs included. The goal has been to find a way to be able to get the cb hybrids, the colored stripes, and cb alts available to anyone who wants them. People want them to be non-tradable, I don't. I want to see people have the ability to trade them off, to build cool lineages and to have fun with new options.

It has indeed - but there are people - quite a lot of people in terms of the people in this thread - mentioning exclusive to store dragons.

 

HM prize ones would just about sit OK with me, yes. Though I would still rather not. I would rather not have had the raffle in the first place - and would rather we carried on hunting and breeding as we always have, sans shop.

[Thuban]

Yes I did. That is what I'm saying though - ANYONE can enter a raffle once a year.  I wish it didn't exist, though I would be both insane and a liar if I said I wouldn't accept a prize - but for a few moments a day, just once a year for two weeks, anyone can do it. The events - Hallowe'en too - are OCCASIONAL fun.

 

And all the dragons in the raffle CAN be got by anyone with almost no effort - it's basically blind luck.  It's not quite the same as having an ongoing store, running all the time, where - as I say - you WOULD get people saying "hey nothing new to buy lately" and people feeling they HAD to keep working at minigames and stuff if they are to keep up with the basic game.

 

 

It has indeed - but there are people - quite a lot of people in terms of the people in this thread - mentioning exclusive to store dragons.

 

HM prize ones would just about sit OK with me, yes. Though I would still rather not. I would rather not have had the raffle in the first place - and would rather we carried on hunting and breeding as we always have, sans shop.

Fair enough. You havent been the only one with hesitations about this. I am doing the best I can to find some middle ground when it comes to the different concerns coming up.

 

 

The store exclusives keep coming up because of the first post. They are mentioned there, but have been clarified multiple times to state that while I am not against the idea, I'm also not going to really encourage it.

 

 

As for people complaining about "oooh nothing new to buy" meh. They can complain all they like if that time comes. The decision to add things or not is out of my hands. No matter how much thought and planning goes into anything ever... someone will always find something to complain about. I am not going to find a perfect solution.. but its possible I can find something where everyone is equally unhappy

Edited January 13, 2015 by Thuban

[Ruby Eyes]

They are already complaining, just with regards to regular releases, so that wouldn't add anything new, really.

[olympe]

It's just as possible that people complain about "nothing new to hunt", really.

 

Edit: Oops. 'ed. And great minds think alike. (Or fools seldom differ? )

Edited January 13, 2015 by olympe

[Tawanda001]

Gonna throw out something a little offbeat, maybe way too complicated, but it's just an idea, k?

Regarding assigning 'official' values.

(Which we already have a fairly reliable unofficial set of values assigned anyway, so eh, it makes not a lot of difference to me)

What if there were a way not to put an actual price on the eggs? What if we left it up to the players by bidding?

If there are limits in place as to how much can be earned in a specific time frame then we don't really have to worry about 'rich' players being able to outbid everyone else and it simply becomes a matter of how many points are you willing to spend on a particular dragon, how long are you willing to hold your points and save them in order to try to get what you want.

 

Scenario- each week (?) a new cb soulpeace is offered, bidding starts at 500 pts and is open for 72 hours. I see there are 15 bids and that Fuzz has offered a high bid of 1500 points, do I want the soulpeace enough to offer more, or do I decide I'll offer on something else, or will I wait for another time when bids on a soulpeace aren't so high?

Of course it means that people are paying different prices for the same dragon, but it's already like that now to some extent. The opals that were so expensive not all that long ago can now be had for a song, same with blacks, and stripes, etc. Letting people bid sort of lets them decide how much a thing is worth and it would probably go in cycles just like the other eggs in the cave do.

 

or maybe I just spend too much time on ebay....

[amthystfire]

Tawanda001, I like your idea. I do, it makes a lot of sense. My problem with it is this: an auction would be much harder to code. Knowing a bit about coding, I can attest to this, it's going to be far more work. That being said, I still like the idea because it would mean a standard number of eggs coming out each {specified time period} that people could bid on as tastes change, though you would probably have some eggs that always go high, but perhaps not insanely high. (though some people might get into bidding wars....)

[Sir Barton]

Gonna throw out something a little offbeat, maybe way too complicated, but it's just an idea, k?

Regarding assigning 'official' values.

(Which we already have a fairly reliable unofficial set of values assigned anyway, so eh, it makes not a lot of difference to me)

What if there were a way not to put an actual price on the eggs? What if we left it up to the players by bidding?

If there are limits in place as to how much can be earned in a specific time frame then we don't really have to worry about 'rich' players being able to outbid everyone else and it simply becomes a matter of how many points are you willing to spend on a particular dragon, how long are you willing to hold your points and save them in order to try to get what you want.

 

Scenario- each week (?) a new cb soulpeace is offered, bidding starts at 500 pts and is open for 72 hours. I see there are 15 bids and that Fuzz has offered a high bid of 1500 points, do I want the soulpeace enough to offer more, or do I decide I'll offer on something else, or will I wait for another time when bids on a soulpeace aren't so high?

Of course it means that people are paying different prices for the same dragon, but it's already like that now to some extent. The opals that were so expensive not all that long ago can now be had for a song, same with blacks, and stripes, etc. Letting people bid sort of lets them decide how much a thing is worth and it would probably go in cycles just like the other eggs in the cave do.

 

or maybe I just spend too much time on ebay....

You have to bid in the last few seconds so you don't run up the bid. ;-)

 

Can't say I would like the idea of it running as an auction because that seems to put us right back to having to compete with each other; something I really didn't like about TJ's suggestion. I rather this we some earned instead of "won", if that makes sense.

[Amazon_warrior]

Gonna throw out something a little offbeat, maybe way too complicated, but it's just an idea, k?

Regarding assigning 'official' values.

(Which we already have a fairly reliable unofficial set of values assigned anyway, so eh, it makes not a lot of difference to me)

What if there were a way not to put an actual price on the eggs? What if we left it up to the players by bidding?

If there are limits in place as to how much can be earned in a specific time frame then we don't really have to worry about 'rich' players being able to outbid everyone else and it simply becomes a matter of how many points are you willing to spend on a particular dragon, how long are you willing to hold your points and save them in order to try to get what you want.

 

Scenario- each week (?) a new cb soulpeace is offered, bidding starts at 500 pts and is open for 72 hours. I see there are 15 bids and that Fuzz has offered a high bid of 1500 points, do I want the soulpeace enough to offer more, or do I decide I'll offer on something else, or will I wait for another time when bids on a soulpeace aren't so high?

Of course it means that people are paying different prices for the same dragon, but it's already like that now to some extent. The opals that were so expensive not all that long ago can now be had for a song, same with blacks, and stripes, etc. Letting people bid sort of lets them decide how much a thing is worth and it would probably go in cycles just like the other eggs in the cave do.

 

or maybe I just spend too much time on ebay....

I like it, but I think it would end up being DragonBay - people waiting to snipe at the last second and much wailing and lamenting if someone's interwebs glitched or lagged at the crucial moment. :/

 

Maybe if bids were hidden? You could see how many people had bid, but not how much?

[olympe]

At first, this would create quite some trouble because of the cap in points.

 

Week 26 (half a year after start): A prize dragon is on offer. Everyone can only offer 26 times the weekly cap as a maximum. Guess who will get it? The person who is willing and able to pay just that.

 

Week 104 (two full years after start): A prize dragon is on offer. Everyone who hasn't bought anything yet can (and probably will) be able to pay 104 times the weekly cap.

 

Also, in (maybe) the first two years, newer players will at a seemingly endless disadvantage because they started later.

[Thuban]

The auction idea is interesting, but doesnt exactly work with this specific suggestion. It could work along side this one, once the kinks in it are worked out. There are a lot of concerns that immediately popped up in my head, that I dont want to try to work out solutions for at this time. My goal is to make things "easily" accessible without having to compete against anyone else. Your idea, while interesting... works against that very basic principle.

 

 

If you guys want to work out a system for that in another thread, then I will gladly try to work out a system to work it into this suggestion after you have an idea of how it works (because yay, tying things together is fun, so long as you dont make them entirely dependant on each other to work )

[Amazon_warrior]

olympe, that assumes that only ONE dragon is ever auctioned at a time, which *would* be daft, yes. If there were a number of desirable breeds (including several of the same type), people would have to split their bids if there were several things they were interested in.

 

Anyway, I'll stop being OT now...

[Rally Vincent]

"But I dont have time to play mini games all day" "I play here to collect dragons, not to play mini games" and all the comments comparing this idea to other sites : you dont /have/ to play the mini games unless you want to.

That is a weak argument considering you intent to add eggs that only be acquired via the mini game. If someone wants to collect all dragons, it would force them to play the game.

 

If you want to tell us that not getting that dragon is a valid alternative, then let me answer that you also don't have to play DC at all unless you want to.

[Ruby Eyes]

I don't like auctions. I'd prefer a regular old shop.

[Angeles]

I support the idea of a store with non-tradeable currency to buy dragons that are otherwise unavailable except for the insane odds of getting a Prize of HM. Currency on other sites that I have seen have been prone to terrible inflation, like Leayph and, the worst I know of, Gaiaonline. The reason for this is that players can exchange currency to each other to buy something. And majority people are greedy.

 

I support a daily cap over a weekly one. Just like mana alchemy was. I only have maybe four hours a day off of work any given day of the week, only a small amount of that time is devoted to DC, and I had no trouble taking the small amount of time working towards the raffle on a daily basis. So I see no problem there.

 

I support a dragon cap of two dragons over one obtained via the store, that way a male and female of a breed can be obtained. People who want PBs and other lineage builders will benefit from this, and those are the people I see complaining the most about the unavailability of certain dragons. I also support the hard cap of two CB holiday dragons no matter what. So no buying two more CB solstices when you already have one or two.

 

I support the includence of prizes in the store in order to try to fix the horrible mess that is the trading economy. And I honestly don't understand how anyone can say there isn't a problem. Prizes will destroy this game (as they've done for many already) if it's allowed to continue the way it is, not a store. This is a really good suggestion to fix that problem. I've been on several sites in my lifetime, and many of them had died for one sole reason: drama. I'd hate to see DC go that same way.

 

Rant aside, sorry about that.

 

I do not support in-store only, even cycling, dragons. We're trying to do away with the exclusivity that has caused so much drama since the raffle's inception, not make more of it.

 

Spriter's alts; c'mon guys, she said she was joking, let it go. I'm also not for special in-store exclusive recolors. Exclusive is an expletive on DC I swear.

 

I do not support bids, the point of the suggestion is to work up to something and then you get it, not that you work up to something, and there's still a chance you won't get it.

 

I do not support having the egg of a black, vine, or undine purchased in the store to have only the same amount of odds of it hatching alt as bred eggs do in-cave. See above reason.

 

I am neutral about the includence of dragons available in-cave. They are available in-cave, it's not a terrible thing if they're not included in the store. Then again, the chance to work for a CB rare is a nice idea as well.

 

I am neutral about eggs obtained this way being tradeable. On the one hand, you worked for it, you should do what you want with it, on the other hand I want this to be a solution to the trading market problem, not oil to the flame.

 

Don't like the suggestion? Don't play the game. Just like the anti-teleport people; no one's forcing you to do it, it's an optional thing. Do it if you want, or stick to your old-fashioned play-style. It will be an addition to the game, not a replacement. Things don't need to change for you, but let people who want the change play they way they want as well.

 

I think that's all. I might have missed something. I just woke up.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Angeles

[Thuban]

That is a weak argument considering you intent to add eggs that only be acquired via the mini game. If someone wants to collect all dragons, it would force them to play the game.

 

If you want to tell us that not getting that dragon is a valid alternative, then let me answer that you also don't have to play DC at all unless you want to.

As mentioned multiple times already:

 

Only some of the proposed eggs in there will be non-tradable (holidays and prizes, if they are offered specifically) Which does mean for those specific dragons, Yes... you have to play the game if you want the cb. If you want bred babies though..they will exist.

 

I prefer to see the cb hybrids, colored stripes, and alts tradable. Others want then to not be tradable. Leaving them tradable makes it so that anyone who wants them CAN get them, even if its only by trading for them.

 

Im not going to say anything about frills, because they are frills. They arent in the territory of things I am comfortable about making an assumption on. I'd like to see them there, IF they arent getting released eventually. If they end up released, I'd like to see them breedable/tradable. If they end up in the store, I want them to breed more frills. If they arent allowed in the store for whatever reason, thats fine too.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Thuban

[KuroYukia]

You have to bid in the last few seconds so you don't run up the bid. ;-)

 

Can't say I would like the idea of it running as an auction because that seems to put us right back to having to compete with each other; something I really didn't like about TJ's suggestion. I rather this we some earned instead of "won", if that makes sense.

I agree with you. Though I kinda HATE the idea of bidding against others. They did that with Gaiaonline and it got so competitive, quit

[Fiona]

I'm pretty much out of these discussions, but Angeles, the way you phrased this:

I do not support having the egg of a black, vine, or undine purchased in the store to have only the same amount of odds of it hatching alt as they do in-cave. See above reason.

makes it sound like you think cb blacks, vines and undines can alt. Um, no. That's what makes cb alt blacks, vines and undines special, which is why they're sometimes chosen as HM prizes and why they'd be included in the store.

 

though I don't particularly agree with making them only have a chance to alt unless they're really cheap. If I'm paying for something I expect to get what I'm paying for. Paying for a "maybe" probably wouldn't be worth it to me, even though I like all three breeds.

[Amazon_warrior]

though I don't particularly agree with making them only have a chance to alt unless they're really cheap. If I'm paying for something I expect to get what I'm paying for. Paying for a "maybe" probably wouldn't be worth it to me, even though I like all three breeds.

Agree with this. I would be seriously narked if I'd paid for an alt and ended up with a regular that I could have picked out of the AP for free'n'nothin'

[Angeles]

I'm aware that CBs don't alt, but I don't want to pay something for an egg if there's only a chance that it'll be an alt, especially if the chances are as low as they are for any of the bred blacks, vines and undines, for exactly the same reasons you pointed out. If I'm paying for it, I want to get what I'm paying for.

 

I edited my previous post to try to be more clear about that.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Angeles

[Fuzzbucket]

You have to bid in the last few seconds so you don't run up the bid. ;-)

 

Can't say I would like the idea of it running as an auction because that seems to put us right back to having to compete with each other; something I really didn't like about TJ's suggestion. I rather this we some earned instead of "won", if that makes sense.

IF anything, please not an auction - I'm with Sir Barton on this. Not least time differences When you are after a single item on ebay - sure, get up at 3 am your time if that's what it takes to be the last bidder. But for EGGS ?

[Thuban]

(regarding why breedable alts would have a miss chance)

I would prefer to see them as guaranteed alts too. The reason I wrote it the way I did originally though, was because of something said in private about my idea, and how it related to them.

 

 

Of all of the things on the list... Blacks, Vines and Undines do NOT have a separate egg. ALL of the hybrids, and weirdly colored sprites have eggs that identify them as being that specific thing, these guys don't. Because of that, it makes it a bit harder to know that you do indeed have the alt, right off the bat. Even then.. everything else on that list, has potential to take some time to be able to get, and the list is lacking for cheap, easy to come by eggs.

 

If them having a lack of an egg to mark them as alt, has potential to keep them from being available, I think its a perfectly acceptable compromise to just keep them cheap, and provide only a /chance/ at alt. At least then, they are still available, even if there has to be a drawback.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Thuban