Trader's Canyon

[KuroYukia]

What are you trying to say? I don't multiscroll.

NUUUUUUUUU not that part >.< I meant the RL cash not being part of the store..... I am soooo sorry you thought I was accusing you of that, that greatest sin ( being honest not sarcastic)

[DarkEternity]

.

 

Funny thing, I remember the last big in-game currency discussion we had here (based on getting points for raising dragons, not playing mini-games); ISTR it ended in the fireiest of flames. I think I played Devil's advocate there; I could see how a currency system might be implemented, but many people were vehemently, vociferously opposed; it's interesting that there's much less outcry this time....

AW - was that my thread? I remember making a suggestion a year or more back with absolutely no support but the mood seems to have shifted quite a bit since then.

[Amazon_warrior]

AW - was that my thread? I remember making a suggestion a year or more back with absolutely no support but the mood seems to have shifted quite a bit since then.

I honestly can't remember who started it; funnily I thought it was a newbie that made the initial suggestion.... *has slept since then*

[Adrak]

It would be awesome if something like this was available during the holiday events to give people who missed past cave born holiday dragons the opportunity to get them, with the limit of 2 cave borns in place, and no alts of any kind. Put a high cost on them too of course, to make it still challenging.

 

Edit: Well, the cb limit for the Christmas and Valentine's, since the Halloweens don't have a limit on the cbs.

Edited January 13, 2015 by adrak

[DragonNighthowler]

While I personally am not too fond of this idea, I wouldn't mind the idea so much if CB prize dragons were NOT available in the store. I would be really annoyed if a special, limited time, winners-only prize was put up for sale for anyone to buy. That would ruin the raffle.

You know the funny thing? Everyone is so concerned about how this suggestion or that suggestion will affect raffles and raffle winners. Meanwhile, nobody seems to care how the raffles have affected the rest of the cave.

[Fuzzbucket]

You know the funny thing? Everyone is so concerned about how this suggestion or that suggestion will affect raffles and raffle winners. Meanwhile, nobody seems to care how the raffles have affected the rest of the cave.

Oh they care. See threads...

 

But actually - the more I see being discussed about how this can (be made to) work, the more I am going off it. I am leaning back towards TJ's regular prizes thing. As long as they aren't exclusives, and as long as anyone can have the chance (as in a prize dragon is a chance thing) get everything without playing mini-games.

[lorimmel]

Multiscrollers will have a field day with this UNLESS, we lock the dragons to scrolls and only allow offspring to be traded.

 

Multiscrollers will multiscroll no matter what. To win more raffle tickets, or to have more eggslots, or to have more GoNs, or (...), or because they are bored. I cannot see why this system would encourge them more than anything else.

[AquaBlueRain]

Love and support this!

[Quinney]

No. Leave Dragon Cave as it is!!!

[cyradis4]

Multiscrollers are a problem, but if the number any given scroll can have is limited and the eggs are scroll-locked, while they can get more 2nd gens.... There's not much else they can do.

 

And those same multis already ARE skewing the odds of winning a prize heavily in their own favor. Extremely heavily in some cases (remember what happened last year, with Pipes and Beets?). So those of us who are following the rules are at a severe disadvantage to those who are breaking said rules in any sort of raffle situation.

 

So yes. I want to have some Prizes awarded through some way that requires effort and dedication on a single scroll to the Cave, to give those who are law-abiding a decent shot at a Prize.

 

Personally, I'd prefer it to be along the lines of "collect 500 adults / frozen hatchies of x common, win a Prize" type deal. That way, it helps the ratios while it hands out prizes to those who are dedicated. But I can already here the screams from *that* idea! The cry of "but what about those who don't want huge scrolls!!!!!!!" will be echoing from the rafters if I ever suggested that. >.< You know, I might anyway. It certainly gets around the whole store issue!

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Mysfytt]

Unless you can provide a quote, let's let TJ speak for himself. What is your opinion on the suggestion?

My opinion is this

 

I loved the mana game and would love to have it a permanent feature as a side game just for the fun of it, possibly even having the mana created added to a personal tally.

 

I am hesitant however to have that turned into any sort of currency for use on sale on dragons being introduced - especially if it relates to pre-released and prizes and hard to obtain ones

 

Experience on other games and the trade 'prices' set in DC already gives me the impression that anything rare/new/pretty will still be unobtainable, just in a new way - by enthusiastic overpricing. Rare things could and likely will cost 1 million mana, or more.

 

Also will donations of real cash play a part in obtaining mana? - meaning those well off in RL will hold the market, if not even those with time to just sit and obtain mana for hours will rule over those who work/school/ have kids etc.

 

It just opens a whole can of nasty for me - not liking it.

[Laura-Borealis]

In the " Distributing New Prizes/Special/Limited Dragons, via an in-cave game, maybe Mana Alchemy?" ( https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=165845 ) The idea came up to have the option to store points gained from playing mini games, to "buy" limited edition eggs (Prizes, Previous CB holidays, CB hybrids).

No support. No stores, no limited editions, no buying eggs with points. Please.

 

 

I like the idea of having mini-games like Mana Alchemy, but only if they are for fun, or related to a holiday like the past one.

[cyradis4]

I think that this and other such ideas exclude RL currency, so... you can't buy this mana, can't trade it, you can only redeem it.

 

Perhaps people would be happier if this wasn't called a store? We are talking about *magic* crystals. It could be something like:

 

 

How it would work:

 

You have a set of spell-books on the wall, each of which requires extremely large amounts of mana. On the covers, it says: To Call a Wild Dragon, and below that, the type of dragon you can attempt to call. The front cover reads this:

To Call A Wild Dragon, x Edition

Warning: Extremely dangerous! Use with Caution! Wild Dragons do not like being Called!

This spell only calls the dragon, it does not guarantee that the dragon will stay with you

 

You take down the book that says To Call A Wild Dragon: Shallow Water. Inside, you read off the ingredients. It needs x Life mana, y Water mana, and an incantation. So you set up, and then you say the incantation, hoping to summon a wild dragon! Maybe you can convince it to stay with you.

 

BOOOOOOM! You are thrown out the back wall, and shaking your head, get up and go back to your workroom, only to pause at an angry hiss! Then, with a bang, the roof of your workroom is blown up, and off goes the dragon you just called. So much for befriending it!

 

Perhaps this wasn't such a good idea, after all. All you have now is a damaged work room. Going back in to survey the damage, you see an amazing sight: nestled amid the damage, is a Shallow Water egg! The dragon you called didn't stick around, but it did leave an egg for you to love.

 

/End Story.

 

This could also be used for anything that needs a "spell", such as unfreezing. And the amount and type of mana needed for each dragon can be set to go with the dragon being called.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 13, 2015 by cyradis4

[Laura-Borealis]

I think that this and other such ideas exclude RL currency, so... you can't buy this mana, can't trade it, you can only redeem it.

 

Perhaps people would be happier if this wasn't called a store? We are talking about *magic* crystals. It could be something like:

You can call it whatever you want, it would still be a store. No support.

[Thuban]

The beauty of this idea is that its NOT set in stone. I am actually willing to consider other options. Based on the newest rash of comments, it looks like i need togo through and pull out all of my comments relating to different aspects that keep getting brought up over and over again that I already discussed/clarified, and get them in the first post (gimmie a few hours.. im really not awake yet)

 

Lets rehash this thing again though:

 

POINTS WILL NOT BE TRADABLE. EVER. THEY WILL NOT EVER COST RL MONEY.

PRIZES DO NOT HAVE TO BE INCLUDED: This is totally waiting on seeing how many are released, how many types (if a new one happens) and whether people are happy with how they work out this year. This is absolutely not a "I need a Prize, so I want to make prizes easy to get for everyone!" thing.. this is taking an exclusive dragon that has broken the way trading works for a large chunk of the (vocal) active community and trying to ease over the damage that had happened. They dont HAVE to be included, I would just /like/ them to be. I honestly don't care one way or another (but having access to the 3 balloon fails i need, on my own scroll would be awesome!)

 

 

Special Releases/Limited releases DO NOT HAVE TO BE INCLUDED:: Again, this is just a fun idea, something that might appeal to some users, or make some concepts that cant be released in cave due to mechanic issues, more readily available. I happen to like the idea of "store pets" because i enjoy them. I also happen to know that within my own concepts rotting, that some of them could never be released in cave due to mechanics. I have seen other concepts floating around that could benefit from something like this. Again, it doesnt bother me one way or another to offer it, its just an idea.

 

Spriters alts/recolors: Nope, spriter alts wont happen, and I know they wont. I thought I was clear in my OP about that suggestion being a joke, it was purely to see if other suggestions might come up (which did, thank you!)

 

Frills are not on this list, purely because of the other threads that seem to lean towards them being released at some point. If they are not going to happen in cave, then it would be alright to add them to the stores possible options. However, its up to Bossman and their spriter whether it would be ok. Old pinks on the other hand.. im not against people suggesting them, but im also not going to hold my breath for them.

 

As for trading: I can totally see why people want to keep these untradable. Having cb prizes up for trade is a very scary concept.. HOWEVER: As of yesterday, I was capping these at 2 per sprite, per scroll (except for previous winners, who would end up at three).. after a long chat with a few people close to me who absolutely do not play this game, I think a limit of 1 of each version is plenty as a cap. Especially if their point cost is kept very high. I wouldnt limit it to one per scroll.. its one person getting one of each /ever/. Once purchased, the option to buy would disappear for that color, and you will not gain access to it again.

"But Thu, what about the multi-scrollers, whats going to stop them from cheating?" Simple, those people who multi-scroll are going to cheat whether this goes into effect or not. I dont think the "what about multis" arguement is a valid reason to keep a potentially useful suggestion from being implemented.

 

 

"What about people who farm/write scripts/ cheat in other ways on other games?"

Cheaters are going to cheat, no matter what safeguards are put in place. This is exactly why specific limits were put into place to keep them from getting an unfair advantage. I fully expect each game (assuming there is eventually more than one) to have a daily cap on how many points can be earned. If you want to play them for hours and hours on end, have at it, but you wont get more points from it. This idea was specifically to prevent those types of players from taking advantage of the suggestion. Having a set cap on points per days, and accounting for how many points the game actually would give out, will give us a baseline to figure out exactly how hard it should be to get each type of egg.

 

"I dont have time for this" "I dont play this game to play mini games" "this makes this site just like (another site": (and other similar complaints/objections: Well.. this might be true, however, I am actively trying to find ways to make it so that you dont necessarily have to play the games to get access to those instore eggs. This is why I've been funny about saying "these eggs wont be tradable". If there was a way to earn points through casual, day to day play, then I would be all for it, however, I am worried that something like that specifically would be exploitable, which is exactly what we need to avoid. If simply derping around and breeding 25 dragons (or doing 25 actions in general) gained you 25 points a day, then you would eventually be able to afford the things you might want, without ever having to actually play the games. Sadly though.. those users prone to cheating, would find a way to exploit it, and thats why I've locked it down to HAVING to play the games to earn points.

 

I am FULLY willing to allow for having WEEKLY point caps rather than daily. It still works within the original ideas framework.

 

"But this changes everything about the core game!"

Not everything. Just a few things.

 

~It puts dragons into the general user base that do exist, but are unattainable as cbs due to site mechanics. The ability to own cb hybrids, and alts opens the door for a lot more interesting lineages, and projects for those who care about those. It gives newer/younger/time-crunched/poor quality equipment and internet people a way to save up for things they can trade, or raise for trade-fodder/lineage purposes to get them to their goal of those in-cave dragons they can't catch due to said restraints. Because everyone that wants to have those same eggs, has to do the same amount of work to be able to get them in the first place, its not really an unfair advantage to the trade market.

 

~It changes the trade market: It puts new things into circulation that may actually help us reboot the CURRENT trade economy back into something we can all enjoy. It seems a good amount of people over the past few years, have hated that Prizes have pretty much taken over the economy. We acknowledge the fact that most trade threads that allow them, are taken over by Prize trades. Being able to start trading high value non-prize things (as I can see cb colored stripes, and a few of the hybrids easily becoming) would help even out that aspect, and getting things back on even footing again. So yes, it changes things.. but it could be for the better.

 

~Regarding the concern of it adding an economy/currency system: Yea... it does, I wont deny that. However.. the currency itself, is NON-TRADABLE. Some dragons, would have a per-scroll purchase limit. Once that purchase limit is used, the dragon cant not be bought again. This helps to keep the ratios in check, and to prevent people from farming by dropping the egg, and re-purchasing a new one. Some dragons wouldnt be limited.. there might be commons or something in there that could be purchased after only plying games randomly for a few days. This is totally ok, because they are meant to be easy to earn. Im sure we can come up with a system that can make most of you happy

 

 

 

And with that giant blurb of text.. I gotta go catch up on everything I may have missed...

Edited January 13, 2015 by Thuban

[Ruby Eyes]

Well ...

 

- I definitely would appreciate a way to collect more CB hybrids. (Are they really as valuable as CB prizes? It didn't seem so when I tried to trade CB hybrid offspring ... )

- I sure would like to play Mana Alchemy again, or the Snow Forts, and there is already a "tickets" system in place that could be re-used.

 

... but ...

 

- Introducing breeds with planned retirement?! NOOO! *panics* I don't mind the idea of introducing a fresh "store" breed every season, but seriously, don't make it exclusive "you must have had time to play this season" stuff! Make them breed like rabbits - or maybe uncommon rabbits, make them breed true and the offspring tradable, and keep them available. It doesn't matter if the store inventory gets longer this way by 1 egg every 3 months - most people's scrolls are longer!

- Prizes for everyone? I'm not sure if they would still deserve the name "Prize dragons" anymore. I think they would need to be left out of this and be reserved for raffles.

- Limits on playing games? I don't think that would be necessary. Like the Mana collection game did, you could just have a "bar" that you can max out once a day, and still keep playing afterwards for fun.

 

... otherwise, I don't care much about ...

 

- CB alts: There is at least one Black that existed before HMs already. Although an alt Undine would be lovely.

- A chance to get up to 2 of each CB Christmas and CB Valentine's breed would be cool, but these are somewhat special - you know you shared a holiday in the cave with others if you have them, and you know you weren't there when you missed them. *shrugs*

[Fuzzbucket]

Just as long as there is NOTHING that cannot be obtained in any other way. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. All the CB alts and hybrids CAN be won in the raffle, so I'd see them as fair game.

 

These cyclical ones - as long as they were only like seasonals - so you could get them by waiting till the next cycle - and as long as you could get them in cave.

 

I am trying to be nice and polite about this, as I still utterly hate the idea the more posts I see about it, but at least that way it would be faintly tolerable - and avoidable without having to forego dragons I'd want on my scroll.

[DragonNighthowler]

There was a proposal (which people where vehemently against) about getting points by raising common eggs. I'm bringing it up because it might be interesting to consider, as it does keep the spirit of DC.

 

Although probably there are many arguments why this wouldn't work.

[Thuban]

Well ...

 

- I definitely would appreciate a way to collect more CB hybrids. (Are they really as valuable as CB prizes? It didn't seem so when I tried to trade CB hybrid offspring ... )

- I sure would like to play Mana Alchemy again, or the Snow Forts, and there is already a "tickets" system in place that could be re-used.

 

... but ...

 

- Introducing breeds with planned retirement?! NOOO! *panics* I don't mind the idea of introducing a fresh "store" breed every season, but seriously, don't make it exclusive "you must have had time to play this season" stuff! Make them breed like rabbits - or maybe uncommon rabbits, make them breed true and the offspring tradable, and keep them available. It doesn't matter if the store inventory gets longer this way by 1 egg every 3 months - most people's scrolls are longer!

- Prizes for everyone? I'm not sure if they would still deserve the name "Prize dragons" anymore. I think they would need to be left out of this and be reserved for raffles.

- Limits on playing games? I don't think that would be necessary. Like the Mana collection game did, you could just have a "bar" that you can max out once a day, and still keep playing afterwards for fun.

 

... otherwise, I don't care much about ...

 

- CB alts: There is at least one Black that existed before HMs already. Although an alt Undine would be lovely.

- A chance to get up to 2 of each CB Christmas and CB Valentine's breed would be cool, but these are somewhat special - you know you shared a holiday in the cave with others if you have them, and you know you weren't there when you missed them. *shrugs*

No, cb hybrids are not worth prizes. But, new lineage possibilities could help make that possible.

 

 

Store pets are not required for this suggestion. Its just an idea, nothing more.

 

Prizes: they have names. Tinsels and Shimmer-scales. They would still be prizes due to the original ones having actually been prizes, Giving them to everyone else doesnt make them any less prize-like. I am perfectly ok with leaving them out of this, but also pretty ok with them being available, and stupidly hard to get. I would like to see it be something that ACTIVE people who are actually devoting time to getting them, have to devote at least 6 months to. I want them to be hard to get, to help keep them special.. but I also want to see more in circulation to help make it easier for people to get the lineage types they have been hoping for.

 

Games: No limits on how many times you can play the game.. only how many points can be earned.

 

Cb alt: that the result of a glitch. It doesnt count. CB alts being available just goes along side allowing cb hybrids to be a thing.

 

CBs are CBs because we dont know the lineage of their wild ancestors. If we can breed hybrids, then somewhere out in the wild, they have to exist. This just allows us to find them now. Same with colored stripes.

 

Holidays.. well.. we allow the users to catch those holiday sprites they missed from the AP.. Why is it such a bad thing to allow people to earn cbs of those same sprites? Saving up for those, stops them from saving up for a different rare. Holidays breed at an insane rate as it is.. I really see no harm in having more cbs. Especially since they only really matter once a year, maybe twice, if people need fails. Im sure people who love holiday lineages would be thrilled to have access to more potential trade partners. Im pretty cool with the idea of only having holidays up until 3-4 years ago available, and then adding the next one each year.

 

 

Did i cover everything?

[Ruby Eyes]

Prizes: they have names. Tinsels and Shimmer-scales.

These names are, according to the encyclopedia: Prize Dragon (Eastern) and Prize Dragon (Western)

 

They would still be prizes due to the original ones having actually been prizes, Giving them to everyone else doesnt make them any less prize-like. I am perfectly ok with leaving them out of this, but also pretty ok with them being available, and stupidly hard to get. I would like to see it be something that ACTIVE people who are actually devoting time to getting them, have to devote at least 6 months to. I want them to be hard to get, to help keep them special.. but I also want to see more in circulation to help make it easier for people to get the lineage types they have been hoping for.

I agree with the lineages, of course I do. Mostly, I'm sad that these breeds have been made Prizes in the first place and thus so annoyingly special that they became nearly unusable - but they have been given out as Prizes, nevertheless. Well, I don't own one, so I'll leave this details to Prize owners to discuss.

 

Cb alt: that the result of a glitch. It doesnt count. CB alts being available just goes along side allowing cb hybrids to be a thing.

 

CBs are CBs because we dont know the lineage of their wild ancestors. If we can breed hybrids, then somewhere out in the wild, they have to exist. This just allows us to find them now. Same with colored stripes.

Oh, I'm on the same sheet as you there, with alts and hybrids, and wild eggs of them not being a narratively impossible thing. I just don't have an opinion on alts with regards to this Store idea

 

Holidays.. well.. we allow the users to catch those holiday sprites they missed from the AP..

But only lineages ones, which also happen to be unlimited - unlike the CB version.

 

Why is it such a bad thing to allow people to earn cbs of those same sprites? Saving up for those, stops them from saving up for a different rare. Holidays breed at an insane rate as it is.. I really see no harm in having more cbs. Especially since they only really matter once a year, maybe twice, if people need fails. Im sure people who love holiday lineages would be thrilled to have access to more potential trade partners. Im pretty cool with the idea of only having holidays up until 3-4 years ago available, and then adding the next one each year.

More CB Holidays in general, without regards to limit of 2 per scroll?

[amthystfire]

These cyclical ones - as long as they were only like seasonals - so you could get them by waiting till the next cycle - and as long as you could get them in cave.

How about the seasonal ones dropping in cave during their season and be available during their opposite season in the cave store? Sort of like, well, it's winter here in america, but if you want a kangaroo, you can have one shipped from Australia? Really expensive (hence being in the store) but plausible as to why they weren't dropping in the cave. Not that kangaroos are anything like dragons. But one would assume if there are other parts of the world, that those, too, are overrun with dragons. We see only a small part of our dragony world, and that dragony world runs on the same clock the northern hemisphere does on Earth. If there is land in the southern hemisphere, perhaps we could begin to access that....oooo, that gives me an idea.

 

*off to see if there is any carrier pigeon-like dragon in the works*

 

ETA: perhaps the messenger dragon could be utilized in this endeavor: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...04&hl=messenger

Edited January 13, 2015 by amthystfire

[Fuzzbucket]

More CB Holidays in general, without regards to limit of 2 per scroll?

Good point - I think even HM winners can only get a holly if they don't have 2 CB already ?

 

Thu - you still haven't specifically stated if there would be some EXCLUSIVE to the store.

amthystfire - that MIGHT work, I guess.

[lorimmel]

[...]

 

"What about people who farm/write scripts/ cheat in other ways on other games?"

Cheaters are going to cheat, no matter what safeguards are put in place. This is exactly why specific limits were put into place to keep them from getting an unfair advantage. I fully expect each game (assuming there is eventually more than one) to have a daily cap on how many points can be earned. If you want to play them for hours and hours on end, have at it, but you wont get more points from it. This idea was specifically to prevent those types of players from taking advantage of the suggestion. Having a set cap on points per days, and accounting for how many points the game actually would give out, will give us a baseline to figure out exactly how hard it should be to get each type of egg.

 

[...]

Thu, how about weekly caps instead of daily caps? Seven times as big, but it allows for much more flexibility? You can still do a little bit every day, but you can also do everything during the weekend or such? Also, one day without internet happens to everybody, while one week without internet is something much rarer, and would cause much less paranoia

[amthystfire]

You know the funny thing? Everyone is so concerned about how this suggestion or that suggestion will affect raffles and raffle winners. Meanwhile, nobody seems to care how the raffles have affected the rest of the cave.

I think what it is is that no one knows how many prizes TJ is planning to give out for the raffle this year, and everyone (or at least me) is using this to distract themselves from the possibility of NOT WINNING the raffle. And trying to work out a very realistic system where, in theory, if one worked hard enough, the prize at the end would be...a prize.

[Fuzzbucket]

ERK.

 

I don't play other games because they are so vile, but a mate who used to and gave up just said (elsewhere; don't all rush to look !)

:

Also, in-game stores always have to keep adding new things to pacify player greed. I can just foresee the whining. "It's been two months since we got anything new in the store! Waaaa!" Seems like it's hard enough for TJ to keep up with new cave releases, imagine the headaches if he had to keep up with a store too?