Trader's Canyon

[Reidragon]

In store 'early release' followed by incave release weeks/months later? Everyone has access but if you just caaaaan't wait, it's gonna cost ya.

Absolutely no support on releasing in any way from some store. The game is based on catching dragons from the CAVE. Releasing them any other way completely undermines the very core of this game and is part of the reason why I am so against this suggestion.

[Pixxelation]

Absolutely no support on releasing in any way from some store. The game is based on catching dragons from the CAVE. Releasing them any other way completely undermines the very core of this game and is part of the reason why I am so against this suggestion.

This. If this is implemented, we'll eventually get store releases, then store-exclusives, and who knows what else.

[Vhale]

So someone could set up 6 browsers, with 6 dragon cave accounts and farm games for rares? And what would that do to the ratios when they hit the system?

If the eggs were non-tradeable, that would limit the abuse to an extent. But people would still farm them to breed 2nd gen offspring to trade.

 

Trust me, it's stunning how people will game the system to cheat. Over and over I saw Blizzard etc try to implement these kind of systems and have to cut it back in some way due to exploits. How to deal with cheaters is, I dare say, one of the first things that better be thought well out or the whole thing will crash and burn in a spectacular fashion. It would probably be a wise idea for TJ to go talk to other adoptable site admins to see what they've done. What worked and what didn't. I know such forums exist. I'd love to see everyone with a CB metal, but not at the cost of crashing the whole game.

[Reidragon]

So someone could set up 6 browsers, with 6 dragon cave accounts and farm games for rares? And what would that do to the ratios when they hit the system?

If the eggs were non-tradeable, that would limit the abuse to an extent. But people would still farm them to breed 2nd gen offspring to trade.

 

Trust me, it's stunning how people will game the system to cheat. Over and over I saw Blizzard etc try to implement these kind of systems and have to cut it back in some way due to exploits. How to deal with cheaters is, I dare say, one of the first things that better be thought well out or the whole thing will crash and burn in a spectacular fashion. It would probably be a wise idea for TJ to go talk to other adoptable site admins to see what they've done. What worked and what didn't. I know such forums exist. I'd love to see everyone with a CB metal, but not at the cost of crashing the whole game.

It's the integrity of the game itself that worries me more then the possible exploits at this point. The game's core has always been the cave. If we deviate from that then who's to say what will become of it in the years to follow. Catch from the CAVE, raise them to adults, breed them if you want but where did all those eggs originate? That's right. The cave.

 

If we break that mechanic it ceases to be Dragon Cave it becomes Dragon Store.

 

The raffle already introduced a deviant to that behavior. We can all clearly see what drama that wrought despite what I am sure were the best of intentions. Who knows what this will unleash.

 

I do not want to lose the dragon cave I have spent years playing and loving. If this is released that will be the end of dragon cave as I know it and love it. I'm all for improvements but not ones that change core mechanics of the game itself. No. Just No. I can't and won't support no matter how it is dressed.

 

Edits: On tablet and it's being funky so please excuse any weird grammatical or punctuation errors Auto correct never my friend lol

Edited January 13, 2015 by Reidragon

[Sir Barton]

It's the integrity of the game itself that worries me more then the possible exploits at this point. The game's core has always been the cave. If we deviate from that then who's to say what will become of it in the years to follow. Catch from the CAVE, raise them to adults, breed them if you want but where did all those eggs originate? That's right. The cave.

 

If we break that mechanic it ceases to be Dragon Cave it becomes Dragon Store.

 

The raffle already introduced a deviant to that behavior. We can all clearly see what drama that wrought despite what I am sure were the best of intentions. Who knows what this will unleash.

 

I do not want to lose the dragon cave I have spent years playing and loving. If this is released that will be the end of dragon cave as I know it and love it. I'm all for improvements but not ones that change core mechanics of the game itself. No. Just No. I can't and won't support no matter how it is dressed.

 

Edits: On tablet and it's being funky so please excuse any weird grammatical or punctuation errors Auto correct never my friend lol

But it's not changing the mechanic of the game. If the prizes from the mini-game are HM dragons, possibly prize breeds, these are things that can't be obtained from the cave. You still hunt the cave for dragons. You still hunt the cave for metals. If you don't want to play the mini-game for CB alts or hybrids, there's no reason that you have to.

 

Honestly, I don't like the idea of mini-games personally. I'm not a game person. They tend to either annoy me, or I get bored. Chances are slim that I would actual use this feature, but if people want the games, and TJ is looking at the idea of giving prizes through that game, isn't it better to have a more controlled chaos that favors all players the same over monthly installments of the Holiday Raffle chaos?

 

You can still play the way you want. This ends up being simply another option for people who currently may not be able to play the way they want due to shoddy equipment, slow reflexes, and a ridiculously out of control trade venue. I rarely trade, so that is meaningless to me, but all of the raffle improvement threads indicate that something is clearly wrong that needs to be fixed.

[Prince_Xanthius]

I'm torn between liking the idea of being able to earn 'rare' dragons, and really (REALLY) disliking the idea of introducing minigames. Mostly though I don't support this.

 

Honestly, I don't like the idea of mini-games personally. I'm not a game person. They tend to either annoy me, or I get bored. Chances are slim that I would actual use this feature, but if people want the games, and TJ is looking at the idea of giving prizes through that game, isn't it better to have a more controlled chaos that favors all players the same over monthly installments of the Holiday Raffle chaos?

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but earlier in the thread wasn't it discussed that the dragons in the store would be those UNOBTAINABLE in the cave? CB alts, Old CB Holidays, store exclusives (to get them off the completed list), and differing opinions on if CB prizes would be included. POSSIBLY CB metals but not definitely? Because that's not going to give you a whole load of choices - play the games and rack up points, or don't have that dragon on your scroll. That I don't really agree with. If they only include things otherwise available then I guess it's ok.

 

If it does go ahead, I want the points earned be an UNTRADEABLE currency. Otherwise people WILL farm, and WILL use it to trade for things, not just use it in the store. And then the economy will come to rely on the currency and the economy spirals out of control. It's one of the reasons I am so sporadic on magistream (and for that matter most other adoption sites). I have neither the time, funds or the data available to gain enough gold to keep up with the economy. The fact we can't trade adults will reduce the problem somewhat, but I still think we need to avoid a currency based economy at all costs.

 

If the currency is untradeable and there are limits on how many of each dragon you can buy, then there is no need I think to put a limit how much people can get each day. Yeah, eventually a lot of people would have massive amounts of 'cash' sitting around, but if the only thing you can do is buy from the shop, and you've maxed out all the rares you can buy from the shop then...you can't do anything with it, and it won't effect the economy in any way.

 

To be honest I am mostly against the idea. I like the simplicity of DC, and the fact that I DON'T have to do any grinding to do just fine thank you very much. So getting CB metals are a major event for me (2 on my scroll in 4.5 years - one of which was a gift), but I like my scroll. I have most of the sprites. I am not missing out in a very big way. Any sort of currency tends to split a game into the elites with a lot of time on their hands, and casual players that get left behind and treated as lesser. And I really don't want that to happen here.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[olympe]

I definitely agree no Spriter Alts, but... What about recolors of a few select common dragons that are in the Cave? So a store-only "Alt" of something that's already here.

 

Perhaps White Flamingo dragons, if the spriter is amenable? They breed true, but are only available from the store (canon reason: it takes special circumstances for eggs to get the special colors).

That would still "force" people to play the mini game in order to complete their scroll. Or trade for offspring. And, as much as I'd love a recolor of certain breeds, this doesn't seem like the answer. Besides, there are way too many people opposed to "mere" recolors in-cave, let's not add "mere" recolors in-shop to that.

 

I don't understand why people are always wanting easier ways of obtaining dragons that are supposed to be hard to get. It makes the game interesting and challenging to work towards rare things.

An effort of a year of diligently doing X isn't exactly an "easy way to obtain X". It's just something that takes luck/connection speed/reflexes out of the equation.

 

n store 'early release' followed by incave release weeks/months later? Everyone has access but if you just caaaaan't wait, it's gonna cost ya.

I'd rather not see this, personally. Even if you can only get new dragons in the shop after their official release, this might take some of the "must get 'em now" frenzy out of the release day.

[Mysfytt]

Not to shoot the idea down but I'm pretty sure TJ said somewhere that he would never integrate a 'coin/cash/sale' system EVER - so buying dragons in a store for mana points or whatever just isn't going to fly no matter how you present it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Not to shoot the idea down but I'm pretty sure TJ said somewhere that he would never integrate a 'coin/cash/sale' system EVER - so buying dragons in a store for mana points or whatever just isn't going to fly no matter how you present it.

We have been asked over and over not to use TJ says as a reason for anything, even if we can bring up his actual quote. So....

 

One thing I TRULY hate about this idea that unless it was - say - 500 points is the price of everything in the store - this will set up an OFFICIAL dragon rarity scale. Which would in my opinion be a spectacularly bad thing.

Edited January 13, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[lorimmel]

Not to shoot the idea down but I'm pretty sure TJ said somewhere that he would never integrate a 'coin/cash/sale' system EVER - so buying dragons in a store for mana points or whatever just isn't going to fly no matter how you present it.

 

I wouldn't say anything is set in stone, Mysfytt. Many things have changed over the years. GoNs were supposed to be unbreedable, no eggs were supposed to spontaneously appear on people's scrolls (but GoN eggs and prize / HM eggs do just that ...) - and I'm sure there are more examples, I just don't follow the suggestions closely enough to quote any more of them.

 

If all this is done properly, it shouldn't change your playing style at all. You will just have something like mana alchemy all year round, and you won't be devoting any more time to it than you did around xmas. This will work like a loyalty program for regular customers. Instead of roll of dice, it will focus on players who come here every day or every two days. I am definitely against too much focus on the new mechanism. It should still feel like the old DC we all know, just with a tiny addition.

[stagazer_7]

I am kind of opposed to releasing dragons (completed list or not) only into the store. I understand about Thuban's neat concept. However, if something is good enough, generally speaking, to use in the store it also ought to be good enough to release in the cave at the same time. I just think it's a bad idea to only release in the store.

 

I do understand that people see pretty dragons on the completed list and think that this might get them released, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

 

It's the integrity of the game itself that worries me more then the possible exploits at this point. The game's core has always been the cave. If we deviate from that then who's to say what will become of it in the years to follow. Catch from the CAVE,  raise them to adults, breed them if you want but where did all those eggs originate? That's right. The cave.

 

If we break that mechanic it ceases to be Dragon Cave it becomes Dragon Store.

 

The raffle already introduced a deviant to that behavior. We can all clearly see what drama that wrought despite what I am sure were the best of intentions. Who knows what this will unleash.

I agree with both these post, I like the idea of having the possibility of obtaining existing dragon sprites you can already get from the Cave, breeding (in case of Alts and Hybrids) or trading (case of Prizes) in a game store, but I don't really approve of Store exclusive sprites. The minigame and store should (in my mind) be an addition to the game, there is no need in having 2 hunting grounds.

 

In my opinion, any new breed should be introduced via Cave.

[MessengerDragon]

[...] One thing I TRULY hate about this idea that unless it was - say - 500 points is the price of everything in the store - this will set up an OFFICIAL dragon rarity scale. Which would in my opinion be a spectacularly bad thing.

I don't think that'd be a good thing either.

[lorimmel]

How about long cooldown / short cooldown / one-two per scroll limits instead of price differences? I have a few other ideas too. It's a problem that can be solved.

[KuroYukia]

I don't mind the idea of this, but at the same time do not like it. Multiscrollers will have a field day with this UNLESS, we lock the dragons to scrolls and only allow offspring to be traded.

 

I do happen to like that idea though.

 

EDITED

 

Unless its RL cash, then no dice but I like the idea of mana points won ingame. that was fun to play

Edited January 13, 2015 by KuroYukia

[Obscure_Trash]

Not to shoot the idea down but I'm pretty sure TJ said somewhere that he would never integrate a 'coin/cash/sale' system EVER - so buying dragons in a store for mana points or whatever just isn't going to fly no matter how you present it.

Unless you can provide a quote, let's let TJ speak for himself. What is your opinion on the suggestion?

[stagazer_7]

I don't mind the idea of this, but at the same time do not like it. Multiscrollers will have a field day with this UNLESS, we lock the dragons to scrolls and only allow offspring to be traded.

 

I do happen to like that idea though.

 

EDITED

 

Unless its RL cash, then no dice but I like the idea of mana points won ingame. that was fun to play

Thuban made a suggestion before about there being a limit of how many (rare) dragons you can win in the minigame. Players would be able to do anything with them, abandon, neglect, kill, trade, their choice - but once they'd reach that number, the dragon would no longer be available, the end. I liked that idea too, but limiting the number of rare dragons players'd be able to getper scroll and further making them untradeable ad an extra failsafe is perhaps not such a bad idea either - I'm not sure whether that would be difficult for TJ to code or not, we have number limitation with GoN's and CB Holidays, so that probably shouldn't be too difficult (I don't know a thing about programing so just speculating here), but I don't know about the other part.

Edited January 13, 2015 by stagazer_7

[lorimmel]

Unless its RL cash, then no dice but I like the idea of mana points won ingame. that was fun to play

 

Nobody is talking about RL cash here. It only appeared here once as an example to illustrate a point, and it has nothing to do with this suggestion.

[Sany]

I don't mind the idea of this, but at the same time do not like it. Multiscrollers will have a field day with this UNLESS, we lock the dragons to scrolls and only allow offspring to be traded.

Except that multiscrolling isn't allowed by the Terms & Conditions?

[Amazon_warrior]

Except that multiscrolling isn't allowed by the Terms & Conditions?

Still happens, though. I have no idea whether something like this would make multiscrolling easier to detect; I believe there are already mechanisms and checks in place as it is, but they're clearly not 100% effective.

[Sany]

Still happens, though. I have no idea whether something like this would make multiscrolling easier to detect; I believe there are already mechanisms and checks in place as it is, but they're clearly not 100% effective.

Yeah, that's true, but I don't think it happens that much though? Then again I haven't seen much about multiscrolling yet.

 

One thing I TRULY hate about this idea that unless it was - say - 500 points is the price of everything in the store - this will set up an OFFICIAL dragon rarity scale. Which would in my opinion be a spectacularly bad thing.

This will probably be a horrendous idea, but if you don't want a set rarity scale, it could be a randomised draw of some kind? Like for 500 points, you click a button and any random dragon comes out of it? Then if there's a dragon considered more 'rare' TJ could set the ratio so that less dragons of that kind are given using the click? If that makes sense?

People probably hate this..

[Fuzzbucket]

Still happens, though. I have no idea whether something like this would make multiscrolling easier to detect; I believe there are already mechanisms and checks in place as it is, but they're clearly not 100% effective.

No indeed.

 

I am aware of someone who reported a user with - as I recall - 5 scrolls - that they had actually ADVERTISED in another forum asking for clicks and stating that they were all his (it was a guy, that much I recall). Within days that user had taken down all but one from his list - but they still hadn't been burned two weeks later (I can't recall who it was now, so can't check.)

 

I know TJ does his best but it is far from failsafe

 

[Amazon_warrior]

Yeah, that's true, but I don't think it happens that much though? Then again I haven't seen much about multiscrolling yet.

I don't think anyone except TJ (and maybe some of the mods) have any way of knowing that. I reported a user for multiscrolling not that long ago, and the mod I pm'ed told me I wasn't the first to flag that person and they were waiting on TJ's final decision. So..... yeah, it's a Thing, alas.

 

This will probably be a horrendous idea, but if you don't want a set rarity scale, it could be a randomised draw of some kind? Like for 500 points, you click a button and any random dragon comes out of it? Then if there's a dragon considered more 'rare' TJ could set the ratio so that less dragons of that kind are given using the click? If that makes sense?

People probably hate this..

I see where you're trying to go with that, but unfortunately I think it combines the least popular elements of the store and mini-game raffle suggestions, sorry.

 

The only way to really divorce rarity value in the shop from that in the cave is to have the shop dragons not dropping in the cave; given I've seen many posts pleading for exactly NOT that, I don't think that's a flyer.

 

Funny thing, I remember the last big in-game currency discussion we had here (based on getting points for raising dragons, not playing mini-games); ISTR it ended in the fireiest of flames. I think I played Devil's advocate there; I could see how a currency system might be implemented, but many people were vehemently, vociferously opposed; it's interesting that there's much less outcry this time....

[KuroYukia]

Except that multiscrolling isn't allowed by the Terms & Conditions?

For Amazon Warrior.

 

I was stating my opinion but I'm glad RL cash isn't part of it

 

 

 

 

Yes multiscrolling is against ToS, but I know people with 5 accounts, another with 3 and a few others. Yes I reported them ages ago, one actually over a year and he still has his scrolls. It's not a fullproof system since anyone can make a scroll and say it belongs to someone else and said person is just using their PC.

 

 

[Amazon_warrior]

For Amazon Warrior.

What are you trying to say? I don't multiscroll.

[sparkle10184]

While I personally am not too fond of this idea, I wouldn't mind the idea so much if CB prize dragons were NOT available in the store. I would be really annoyed if a special, limited time, winners-only prize was put up for sale for anyone to buy. That would ruin the raffle.