Trader's Canyon

[Rally Vincent]

Anything that you trade for anything else can be considered a "currency", actually. Way back when, they used salt.

 

So right now, our dragons are themselves acting as the currency in the game, so we already have a "currency", its just not very mobile and grows up.

 

So still not getting what people's problem with this is.

 

Cheers!

C4.

There are differences; I'll point out two.

 

1. Currency has to be accepted as form of payment. In this case, the cave cannot decline you exchanging points. Players can reject eggs you offfer on a trade.

 

2. You cannot store eggs indefinitely, as you can with "points".

 

Certainly there are better examples, but I am not an economist, so I can't name more atm.

[DragonNighthowler]

Nice. Lets turn DC into Neopets.

[Pixxelation]

Absolute NO on any of my spriter's alts being available to other users for whatever reason. I know this is somewhat selfish, but they were made to my own tastes and under the knowledge that I would be the only one to own one.

 

~

 

Currency assigns definite value to things. No more would values be in the eye of the trader. This would entirely change DC's market in a way that many usrs would be upset to see.

 

And even if the currency wasn't tradeable, people can trade for a certain thing to be refunded, and it WILL happen. On Lioden, event currency is not tradeable, but people will often "sell" it, meaning they will buy whatever the other user wants with what they have, in exchange for lions/other currency.

 

In addition, it would artificially inflate rares for the worse, causing ratios to be thrown out of whack.

[Kith]

I am open to this suggestion, provided there aren't any sprites that are store-only exclusives. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not tinsels and shimmers should be included, though if they are I'm okay with the 2 CB per color per species limit.

[birdzgoboom]

Rally (and now Pie) ninja'd me on explaining some differences between egg trading and buying eggs with "currency" and did it way more to the point than I would've, lol.

 

Not only that, but I could only see this serving as a detriment to the current trading market.

 

Also, phasing in and out according to ratios-- gods, that sounds like the whole thing with Gamecube Adapters, where people are hovering and waiting for them to be restocked and then swoop in like vultures once a small amount gets restocked. And then they're gone again in like 10 minutes.

Plsno. So stressful and annoying.

 

~~

 

On the same boat as Pie in regards to Spriter Alts, too. v.v" Sorry... I made my alt Rawrbooscaries and Butthearts for myself.

[DragonNighthowler]

I'm going to be a selfish person. I LOVED DC because of its simplicity. I love DC because it allowed me to have a life while enjoying a game. I love DC because I could log on in any computer and hunt during the 5 minutes free I have between other much more important chores. I love DC because it is nothing like a petsite, a la Neopets.

 

I hated Neopets for all the things you guys want implemented.

 

I'm sorry you can't hunt CB metallics. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a CB prize. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have CB hollies. I don't either.

I'm sorry you can't afford a 2nd gen tinsel, or a CB metallic. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a good connection, computer. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have amazing skills. I don't either.

I'm sorry you are not in the receiving end of some incredibly generous soul gifting you a second gen tinsel or a CB metallic. I haven't been there either.

 

I'm deffinitely sorry this is such a gamebreaker for you, you want to change everything that made DC unique. I'm deffinitely sorry about that because I'm in the minority here and I envision a change I deeply dislike.

I don't care not having CB golds. I don't care not having received a second gen tinsel. I don't care about all those issues that seem to bother people so much because I love the game as it is.

 

I passionately wish TJ had never, ever, invented the raffle, because then we might not be having open discussions which basically revolve around ways to obtain the bugger.

[olympe]

Please, people, let's keep this simple.

 

No spriters' alts. Never.

No single dragon that isn't available from anywhere else. (Meaning: No special release.)

"Bought" prizes cannot be traded. Neither can points be traded.

Keep a cap on how many of each breed can be bought (1 of each breed per year? 2 for non-rares?)

 

If that's adhered to - what's going to break the game?

 

We already have currency. CB prizes or their offspring. CB golds. To some extent, CB silvers. Whatever else is the rare of the month.

 

We already have exclusives. No kidding.

Which is why we already have markets that are totally skewed towards certain breeds (all prizes (2nd/3rd gen), CB golds...) And trading would still only work with dragons, as there is no way your "points" will leave your account unless you exchange them for something in the store. You cannot teleport these points. You cannot sell them to anyone. In order to keep things simpler, you cannot even trade your prizes. (Which means: Nobody is interfering with your high-level trades due to store-bought dragons. People wouldn't be allowed to buy enough, wouldn't be able to teleport them...)

 

Ratios can be kept in check with a simple cap. If necessary, the "prize" version of each breed could be counted as a separate species with just exactly the same descriptions and sprites as the "original" breed.

Edited January 12, 2015 by olympe

[cyradis4]

I'm going to be a selfish person. I LOVED DC because of its simplicity. I love DC because it allowed me to have a life while enjoying a game. I love DC because I could log on in any computer and hunt during the 5 minutes free I have between other much more important chores. I love DC because it is nothing like a petsite, a la Neopets.

 

I hated Neopets for all the things you guys want implemented.

 

I'm sorry you can't hunt CB metallics. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a CB prize. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have CB hollies. I don't either.

I'm sorry you can't afford a 2nd gen tinsel, or a CB metallic. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a good connection, computer. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have amazing skills. I don't either.

I'm sorry you are not in the receiving end of some incredibly generous soul gifting you a second gen tinsel or a CB metallic. I haven't been there either.

 

I'm deffinitely sorry this is such a gamebreaker for you, you want to change everything that made DC unique. I'm deffinitely sorry about that because I'm in the minority here and I envision a change I deeply dislike.

I don't care not having CB golds. I don't care not having received a second gen tinsel. I don't care about all those issues that seem to bother people so much because I love the game as it is.

 

I passionately wish TJ had never, ever, invented the raffle, because then we might not be having open discussions which basically revolve around ways to obtain the bugger.

Actually your basic premise is wrong.

 

I support this... And the only things on your list I don't have more than 1 of are CB Hollies (don't like em either), and CB Prizes (which are almost more trouble than they are worth). I have a lot of CB Metals, almost all CB Holidays (only missing Hollies and Val 09s and Yulebucks). And I have 2nd gen Prizes (two actually).

 

And yet I like this idea, because it gives an extremely limited, non-time consuming, way to, with dedication, get an extreme rare / exclusive. That's why I vote for something that doesn't take long at all... but has to be done for a quarter of a year or more to get the Prize, which is itself limited in the number you can get.

 

Sort of like rewarding frequent shoppers / visitors, and encouraging people to keep playing by giving those who want it another goal. Preferably? A non-tradeable one, so only the offspring can be traded.

 

If the dragons from the store can't be traded at all, then "trading in" your points to give the egg to someone else can't happen.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[stagazer_7]

As long as there are no store exclusive dragons (missed that part in the OP), I support this idea fully. New breeds should be introduces via Cave, I don't think I can handle hunting for eggs in multiple places.

 

I also agree that spriter's alts should remain as they are, they are unique and a reward for artist's hard work and while I'm not a fan of exclusive sprites, this is one exception I think we really shouldn't try to change.

 

Please, people, let's keep this simple.

 

No spriters' alts. Never.

No single dragon that isn't available from anywhere else. (Meaning: No special release.)

"Bought" prizes cannot be traded. Neither can points be traded.

Keep a cap on how many of each breed can be bought (1 of each breed per year? 2 for non-rares?)

This.

Edited January 12, 2015 by stagazer_7

[DragonNighthowler]

your points to give the egg to someone else can't happen.

 

Where did I say anything about giving the egg to someone?

 

Only point this is barely mentioned at all is the cases of generous users (of which there are a LOT in this site) who have given away extremely rare eggs to other people. I know of, at least, someone who received a CB gold as a gift.

 

non-time consuming, way to, with dedication, get an extreme rare

 

How can something that forces you to be on site and do stuff not be time consuming. Dedication =/= non time consuming. Dedication actually implies using a lot of time. Most of the premises you've guys covered have been in the Neopets system since the 2000, and it was awful. AWFUL.

 

The economy in DC is not the best. The economy in Neopets was completely ruined by inflation. You earned points by trading and playing games, and there was a limit to how many of the same game you played. It was so time consuming the game was a frustration fest.

 

I don't know if my premise is wrong. I do believe this is a getaround the fact some of us are not skilled or patient enough to hunt CB metallics, and I do also see a huge number of suggestions as of this past week have been prize centered.

[Pixxelation]

I suppose if they weren't tradeable, it would lessen the hurt this could cause. However, it doesn't change the fact that it would most definitely cause a massive influx of new CB rares, which could be catastrophic to the ratios. Unless these ones weren't counted toward the ratios, it'd be very bad for the game.

 

I also really don't like the idea of assigning different values to different breeds, because it means that the users no longer have as much power to argue worth. As such, I still don't support.

 

EDIT: If the dragons did not count toward ratios, and the dragons all cost a flat rate with a time limit on how often you could buy one (and stricter restrictions on rares), I wouldn't be AS strongly opposed, but I still don't like this suggestion :/

Edited January 13, 2015 by PieMaster

[Obscure_Trash]

Please, people, let's keep this simple.

 

No spriters' alts. Never.

No single dragon that isn't available from anywhere else. (Meaning: No special release.)

"Bought" prizes cannot be traded. Neither can points be traded.

Keep a cap on how many of each breed can be bought (1 of each breed per year? 2 for non-rares?)

 

If that's adhered to - what's going to break the game?

If these were followed that would make this much more similar to the original idea for bringing back mana alchemy without the competition and I would be much more comfortable with this.

[Sir Barton]

I'm going to be a selfish person. I LOVED DC because of its simplicity. I love DC because it allowed me to have a life while enjoying a game. I love DC because I could log on in any computer and hunt during the 5 minutes free I have between other much more important chores. I love DC because it is nothing like a petsite, a la Neopets.

 

I hated Neopets for all the things you guys want implemented.

 

I'm sorry you can't hunt CB metallics. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a CB prize. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have CB hollies. I don't either.

I'm sorry you can't afford a 2nd gen tinsel, or a CB metallic. I can't either.

I'm sorry you don't have a good connection, computer. I don't either.

I'm sorry you don't have amazing skills. I don't either.

I'm sorry you are not in the receiving end of some incredibly generous soul gifting you a second gen tinsel or a CB metallic. I haven't been there either.

 

I'm deffinitely sorry this is such a gamebreaker for you, you want to change everything that made DC unique. I'm deffinitely sorry about that because I'm in the minority here and I envision a change I deeply dislike.

I don't care not having CB golds. I don't care not having received a second gen tinsel. I don't care about all those issues that seem to bother people so much because I love the game as it is.

 

I passionately wish TJ had never, ever, invented the raffle, because then we might not be having open discussions which basically revolve around ways to obtain the bugger.

While I agree with you on most of your points, TJ seems agreeable to having a mini game which would award dragons as prizes. His idea was based on the winners being those with the top scores or pulling winners from among the players by the raffle method. That grants an unfair advantage to those with a great deal of time on their hands, great gamer skills, or dumb luck.

 

The point based store counters that advantage by giving everyone the same ability to get a desired dragon. It puts more of these rarer/impossible to get dragons into the population which should generally be a good thing...ratios not withstanding. Also, I fail to see how this is going to inflate trade when everyone knows that they can get the dragon by putting forth a bit of effort. If anything, that should lower trade value into a reasonable bracket.

 

 

 

[DragonNighthowler]

While I agree with you on most of your points, TJ seems agreeable to having a mini game which would award dragons as prizes. His idea was based on the winners being those with the top scores or pulling winners from among the players by the raffle method. That grants an unfair advantage to those with a great deal of time on their hands, great gamer skills, or dumb luck.

 

The point based store counters that advantage by giving everyone the same ability to get a desired dragon. It puts more of these rarer/impossible to get dragons into the population which should generally be a good thing...ratios not withstanding. Also, I fail to see how this is going to inflate trade when everyone knows that they can get the dragon by putting forth a bit of effort. If anything, that should lower trade value into a reasonable bracket.

You do make some very valid points. With the limitations implied this could work without causing mayor damage to the gameplay in itself.

 

I'm afraid of the can of worms this could open as, the closer we get to Neopets, the closer we get to everything that made it unplayable.

 

I must say I read TJ's proposal and didn't like it either for the points you already mentioned.

[olympe]

The good thing about a "point shop" is that your points do not get taken from you. Which means that, if you don't have much time to spend on DC, you can save up for the real great stuff for a year or two or three - if you feel like it. Or you can spend the same time hunting the cave. (Knowing my luck, my reflexes and my mediocre connection, I know what I'd choose.)

[_Sin_]

While I agree with you on most of your points, TJ seems agreeable to having a mini game which would award dragons as prizes. His idea was based on the winners being those with the top scores or pulling winners from among the players by the raffle method. That grants an unfair advantage to those with a great deal of time on their hands, great gamer skills, or dumb luck.

Let's see... "unfair advantage to those with a great deal of time on their hands, great gamer skills, or dumb luck" vs "unfair advantage to those with dumb luck" that happens to be the current system.

[Rosedamai]

I really am not in favor of games like this but what grates me the most is the CB holidays. To me it is like a proof that you were there that year, and since the sprites change every yeah I have been thinking of them more as a "representative of x holiday of y year". I think having them on the game at all is going to break that special label, and that is why I am unhappy with it.

[cyradis4]

I suppose if they weren't tradeable, it would lessen the hurt this could cause. However, it doesn't change the fact that it would most definitely cause a massive influx of new CB rares, which could be catastrophic to the ratios. Unless these ones weren't counted toward the ratios, it'd be very bad for the game.

 

I also really don't like the idea of assigning different values to different breeds, because it means that the users no longer have as much power to argue worth. As such, I still don't support.

I'm not overly-comfortable with things that are available in-cave available here, myself. However, if every dragon in the store is limited to 2 and untradeable, I don't think it would cause a problem with the ratios.

 

I definitely agree no Spriter Alts, but... What about recolors of a few select common dragons that are in the Cave? So a store-only "Alt" of something that's already here.

 

Perhaps White Flamingo dragons, if the spriter is amenable? They breed true, but are only available from the store (canon reason: it takes special circumstances for eggs to get the special colors).

 

So, what could be available would be:

Everything untradable but everything can breed true:

- CB Prizes (takes quarter of a year to a full year to get, at minimum), limit 2 per color

- CB bred Alts / Hybrids (takes maybe a quarter year or so to get?), limit 2 per breed

- CB Old Holidays (the older the breed - the longer it takes to get them), Existing limits apply, can only be gotten in breeding week (so CB Halloweens are unlimited, but you can only get them in their breeding week).

- CB recolors of existing commons (only a couple breeds, always stay or rotate in and out over time, but always come back), unlimited.

 

So, anyone who'd get the common re-colors has to wait longer to get the prizes, and anyone who gets the prizes still has to wait a long time and show a lot of dedication.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[_Sin_]

I really am not in favor of games like this but what grates me the most is the CB holidays. To me it is like a proof that you were there that year, and since the sprites change every yeah I have been thinking of them more as a "representative of x holiday of y year". I think having them on the game at all is going to break that special label, and that is why I am unhappy with it.

I'm not sure I understand. If you are a raffle winner you can still choose a CB Holiday. Even if you weren't around that year.

[Obscure_Trash]

I definitely agree no Spriter Alts, but... What about recolors of a few select common dragons that are in the Cave? So a store-only "Alt" of something that's already here.

I personally am not for any store-only dragons at all.

[Sir Barton]

Let's see... "unfair advantage to those with a great deal of time on their hands, great gamer skills, or dumb luck" vs "unfair advantage to those with dumb luck" that happens to be the current system.

I don't understand why you're making this comparison. The point shop is what I'm defend. That favors everyone the same because it's based on effort, period. It eliminates luck, time, and skill. It only requires the minimum effort required to acquire points, and the patience to save them.

 

I've thought the raffle was a bad idea from the moment it was announced so you will never see me defend the way things current are.

[stagazer_7]

I don't like ideas of raffles or any competitive gaming, that's what I like about the point shop too - I'm not big on minigames, I hardly played mana alchemy at all during the event, but I like the idea that if I choose to dedicate a small amount of my time I can earn points to get a dragon I like, like a CB Hellhorse for example. <3 If I don't feel like playing the minigame today? That's fine, the points aren't going nowhere, I can collect them at my own leisure and when I have enough, I drop by the store and claim my prize. Then I can start all over again - or not, my choice.

 

I'm not too fond of shop exclusive dragons, even if it's a recoloring of an existing sprite and I also agree that the amount of rares and ultra rares you can get with playing the minigame should be limited, this should be a side-quest rather than an alternative way of Cave hunting.

Edited January 12, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Tiki G]

Honestly, this is just another one of the million suggestion that boils down to, people want rares. And I'm going to give the same old tired response that has been said probably a million times by now. "Rares are rare for a reason".

 

I don't understand why people are always wanting easier ways of obtaining dragons that are supposed to be hard to get. It makes the game interesting and challenging to work towards rare things.

It took me years to catch a Holly, but I did it. On my own. It took me years to catch a CB Gold, but I did it. It takes time and patience, but it is possible. And trust me, I am far from a skilled catcher and I often have very limited time on the computer.

And I will probably never own a CB Prize. But I realize why. They are a prize obtained from a random raffle. Most people will not win. That is the point.

 

 

What is the point in rares/exclusives if everyone can easily obtain them?

 

I just don't get it...

 

 

 

And again. I hate hate hate in-game currency (whether it can be traded or not) and "stores".

No matter how you word it, how you limit it.... if it quacks like a duck...

[Thuban]

Ok, I see a bunch of things came up while I was off trying to deal with a rather sensitive topic elsewhere, lets see how many I can answer:

 

Limits: The proposed limits suggested are "can purchase ever". So, if you can only ever buy 1 of something.. if you bite it, kill it, let it die or trade it off, you will not ever get the chance to buy another one. The site would mark it as "you bought this, so its gone".These would be breedable though so everyone would have access to them, if they are actually bred.

 

Limited releases: This isnt a requirement for this idea to work, but I am one of those types who WANTS to see dragons that only happen for a little while at a time throughout the year. I have concepts rotting behind the scenes that I wanted migration on (as in they would be in one biome for x amount of time, and then in a different biome with different coloration for another length of time. Every color variation could be obtained throughout the year by breeding, but only caught as a cb for a short time per color. Because of that mechanic, they wouldnt work in the cave, the way it is now, but they could be interesting in a store like setting.

 

Prizes: also are not necessarily required. As stated in the first post.. this one would be something that we have to wait and see what happens with this years raffle, before making any decisions. They are great for examples, but not so much for the "hey people want this to happen" front.

 

Spriters alts: Uh, i did make it clear that wasnt a serious suggestion, however, one artist did suggest releasing an alt colored one, instead of their alt... which is cool. It wasnt a serious suggestion, at all.

 

 

As for caps in general... I do get that people are leery of the whole "omg its currency and I can buy dragons.. ew ew its just like other games" effect.. this isnt something that would be intended to be done all day, every day forever. It could be more like the encyclopedia where you just randomly play the game while waiting for your ERs to hatch so you can get back to your game. People who dont want to play, wont have to... anything gained from the store would be breedable and would breed true (with the exception of the lulzy spriter alt..thing.. those would breed normal sprites..).

 

In my mind, its one game (that may be swapped out a few times a year with different games) that earns a cap of (x total) points per day.. and it should take a a few weeks to be able to afford "uncommons". Rares should take a few months (I am still very against cb metals being in there... ) and if prizes and holidays are to be included, they should take even longer to save up for. Unfortunately though, this is something I cant really set in stone because: There is no game, there is no point value system in place.

 

"But Thu, you are taking the specialness of winning the raffle away from the people who have won." Only a little. In previous comments I stated the prize winners would also be able to purchase the full limit available to everyone else (which eventually puts them one ahead of everyone else). The people who won the raffles had the chance to pick codes, which is not something the store would allow. The store ones also wouldnt have the dates to prove they were raffle prizes..

 

"This is going to destroy the trade market" How so? Prizes destroyed the trade market as it is. You can hardly go into any of the trade areas without people offering or asking for prizes. Prizes became the main state of currency for far too long. Anyone else remember when cb blacks and other various commons were worth multiple cb metals? It happened a few times over the years. People have been trying to find a way to get the prizes in cb form to more people, to drive the madness that surrounds them down. This option isnt going to be causing people to suddenly be drowning the market in second gens.. and if it does, so what? They get cheaper, and something else becomes more highly valued. I'd like to see prizes not be the standard for trade anymore.

 

 

"But I dont have time to play mini games all day" "I play here to collect dragons, not to play mini games" and all the comments comparing this idea to other sites : you dont /have/ to play the mini games unless you want to. A large number of people seem to like playing the various mini games and silly things we have done over the years. I was a huge fan of the Cooking event due to how complicated it actually was to pull off. How many of you would replay it simply to be able to redecorate your gingerbread houses, if playing through it again earned you points towards a dragon you want but dont have? I would rather see a simple game that can be played three times very quickly for a small amount of points, than one big game that might take a few days to complete for a large amount. Other people might actually like a big hard, complicated game instead.. and if it exists, they are welcome to it.

 

 

The whole point of this suggestion is to give people a chance at the things they want to have, without making it about other players, or competing with one another, at their own pace, in their own way. Not everyone is going to want to save up for the big, high point items.. some of us just want the ability to have hybrid lines without having to deal with multiple sprites in the lineage to get there. I'd be perfectly content to randomly play a game to save up for an avatar of change cb (if they were available). Its not exactly a "lets get rid of raffles altogether" suggestion as a "well, previous raffles made a lot of people unhappy, so lets open the door for raffles to be something more/else/better, while still giving people the chance to have these perks" kind fo thing.

 

 

[Tawanda001]

Honestly, this is just another one of the million suggestion that boils down to, people want rares. And I'm going to give the same old tired response that has been said probably a million times by now. "Rares are rare for a reason".

 

I don't understand why people are always wanting easier ways of obtaining dragons that are supposed to be hard to get. It makes the game interesting and challenging to work towards rare things.

It took me years to catch a Holly, but I did it. On my own. It took me years to catch a CB Gold, but I did it. It takes time and patience, but it is possible. And trust me, I am far from a skilled catcher and I often have very limited time on the computer.

And I will probably never own a CB Prize. But I realize why. They are a prize obtained from a random raffle. Most people will not win. That is the point.

 

 

What is the point in rares/exclusives if everyone can easily obtain them?

 

I just don't get it...

 

 

 

And again. I hate hate hate in-game currency (whether it can be traded or not) and "stores".

No matter how you word it, how you limit it.... if it quacks like a duck...

I think because people want a way of obtaining rares themselves that doesn't depend so much on 'luck', or on trading or gifting.

Rare catching is not skill so much as it is being able to be in the right place at the right time and having fast enough equipment and reflexes, all combined. Which I suppose is ok if you have at least a few of those things going for you, but if you have none of those things it's not so much a challenge as it is an exercise in total frustration. Rare should be rare, not impossible.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Tawanda001