Trader's Canyon

[egwenna]

I doubt the Bright Pinks would breed true, but I have lineages that use them as a base, and I can't add anything of my own or do swaps for the pieces I want. Also, the one I have looks lonely.

[natli]

I don't want CB Prizes to be in the store, because if every raffle we will get 600 prizes then having them also in the store seems redundant. I was all for cb alts and hybrids but TJ shot that down... the one thing left are past holidays and maybe the frills/bright pinks.

 

As for desirability, I would be more excited about a CB Vine alt than a CB Prize currently, even though the latter has more trading value...

[Azhure]

I support this. But maybe have limits on how many eggs of each type you can get or maybe make it so that you either get ie. a CB prize or a CB past holiday but you can't get both. But there should definitely be restrictions.

 

Only allowed one CB prize per person or none if they have already won one in a raffle or so people who have prizes from the raffles now don't lose the rarity with their prizes introduce a new prize only attainable through earning so many tokens in one month, answering one question about dragon cave correctly (each person gets a different question) and if this is done, you are put into a raffle (yes a raffle, again. Can't have anyone picking favourites) and you can only enter once for that month say the first 100 get a gold of the new prize, next 250 get a silver and the next 325 get a bronze and everyone who doesn't win a prize gets a CB dragon capable of alting of their choice.

 

Which equals up to about 1200 CB gold new prizes. 3000 CB silver new prizes. 3900 CB bronze new prizes. For one year, as because there would be so many of them going out they would only be available for that year. Obviously as the year goes on and less people are able to enter/will enter less gold, silver and bronze prizes are given out after each raffle.

 

Obviously once you have a prize whether from this raffle or from the Christmas raffle, no matter what colour or breed your CB prize is (Tinsel, Shimmer, new breed) you CANNOT enter again! This is so players who don't have much or a chance or winning prizes ie. can't get on over Christmas to enter the raffle.

So in short you shouldn't be able to buy CB prizes in the 'store'. This is just to create some equality because like egwenna

 

Working on lineages (some of which I've worked on for a very long time), I have trouble because people frequently ask stupid amounts for even common fails in trade. So your claim that "prize winners are generally willing to aid in creating lineages" has been the complete opposite of my experience.

I have had exactly the same experience. Prize winners aren't offering 2nd gen prizes or prizes fail unless its in a 2nd gen prize, prize fail swap and as most of the general populace don't have CB prizes obtaining 2nd gen prizes and prize fails is extremely hard.

 

 

Now CB holidays brought back.... I don't think that's as good an idea as then holidays in higher demand ie. Hollies, val '09, Rosebud, Marrow, Pumpkin.

Will have less trading value and unlike what I suggested above for the prizes, we cannot make a new holiday to settle this.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Azhure

[olympe]

Only allowed one CB prize per person or none if they have already won one in a raffle or so people who have prizes from the raffles now don't lose the rarity with their prizes introduce a new prize only attainable through earning so many tokens in one month, answering one question about dragon cave correctly (each person gets a different question) and if this is done, you are put into a raffle (yes a raffle, again. Can't have anyone picking favourites) and you can only enter once for that month say the first 100 get a gold of the new prize, next 250 get a silver and the next 325 get a bronze and everyone who doesn't win a prize gets a CB dragon capable of alting of their choice.

So, uhm, once you "buy" a prize, you won't be able to win a raffle any more? And what about people who've already won twice? Do you want to take away one of their prizes?

 

Plus, the store idea is meant to make things available without any luck involved. Now you're suggesting to replace that one with another raffle. Does that even make sense?

[Jazeki]

So, uhm, once you "buy" a prize, you won't be able to win a raffle any more? And what about people who've already won twice? Do you want to take away one of their prizes?

 

Plus, the store idea is meant to make things available without any luck involved. Now you're suggesting to replace that one with another raffle. Does that even make sense?

I have to agree with Olympe's questioning here. If an individual can win multiple raffles (and several users have--including at least one from the 2014 raffle), then people should certainly be able to get them in the store if they did the work to earn/buy them.

 

Also, I still don't understand the logic of past holidays losing their value if they were to be able to be obtained in the store. That's a subjective con. I value all of my CB holidays the same and wouldn't mind one bit if people were able to work to earn them. Obviously, they aren't going to be widely available and people have already discussed having CB holiday caps apply.

[Slaskia]

Only allowed one CB prize per person or none if they have already won one in a raffle or so people who have prizes from the raffles now don't lose the rarity with their prizes introduce a new prize only attainable through earning so many tokens in one month

 

If we are to limit CB Prize dragon 'purchases' in the store at all, I'd rather it be One per color and type. That way, a raffle winner can still get a CB of all the colors and type they don't have.

 

Edit: to clarify more. Basically, a max of six CB prize dragons (1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze tinsel, and 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze shimmer), gained from either winning or buying.

 

That is until a new prize dragon is added (which I hope doesn't happen, but probably will).

Edited February 13, 2015 by Slaskia

[JBluewind]

I read the OP and I have to say I love the concept and that it doesn't add any "pay to play" aspects to the game. Good job!

 

I actually am for exclusive dragons. In my opinion, they should be tied to the scroll like GoN to avoid trading and multi scroller advantage. An exclusive unbreedable would be fun. Perhaps an exclusive breedable for big points that breeds like Frill/Old Pink or maybe the Frill or Old Pink themselves? Random codes of course as TJ does NOT have time to do that for everybody.

 

A possible alternative way to earn points (sorry if it was already suggested) would be to be an active user. While you would have a cap on points, you could choose to play the games for points or be active to earn points. Different activities that would earn points could be...

Getting on DC (once per day)

Being active every day for a week/month

1 year anniversary

Getting a new badge

Grabbing a CB egg

Breeding an egg

Abandoning an egg or hatchy (limit number of eggs that earn points to avoid issues)

Successfully teleporting an egg/hatchy

Using a BSA

Successfully hatching an egg (extra if you don't have it yet)

Freezing a hatchy (extra if you don't have a frozen of it yet)

Raising a hatchy to adulthood (extra if you don't have it yet)

Naming

Discribing

Releasing an adult dragon

 

Each action would be worth a certain number of points. That way, people could choose rather they wanted to earn points via the games, everyday actions, or a mixture of both.

 

Edit: I also like the idea mentioned above of past holidays being available to "purchase" during their respective holiday breeding season. It's an interesting concept.

Edited February 14, 2015 by JBluewind

[Azhure]

I have to agree with Olympe's questioning here. If an individual can win multiple raffles (and several users have--including at least one from the 2014 raffle), then people should certainly be able to get them in the store if they did the work to earn/buy them.

OK.

1. People who already have multiple prizes would not have their multiple taken from them. They won them fair and square.

 

2. What I'm trying to say is that if each person was limited to one CB prize (just for this, they could still get one at Christmas time) then older players who have been entering the Christmas raffle year after year and not winning anything (when much younger players have won at least once) and younger players who don't have as much experience, have a better chance of acquiring a CB prize.

 

3. All I'm trying to say is equality because at the current moment 99% of prize winners do NOT want to trade for anything other than 2nd gen prizes or prize fails. Even if all you are after is a 2nd gen prize fail.

 

4. Ok so maybe no raffle but maybe your first prize from the 'store' costs 500 tokens, maybe it should go up every time you buy one. Like your second prize costs 1000 tokens. And so on and so foreth. Maybe that's a better idea than limiting.

 

Maybe it should be like Slaskia suggested:

 

If we are to limit CB Prize dragon 'purchases' in the store at all, I'd rather it be One per color and type. That way, a raffle winner can still get a CB of all the colors and type they don't have.

 

Edit: to clarify more. Basically, a max of six CB prize dragons (1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze tinsel, and 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze shimmer), gained from either winning or buying.

[Jazeki]

OK.

1. People who already have multiple prizes would not have their multiple taken from them. They won them fair and square.

 

2. What I'm trying to say is that if each person was limited to one CB prize (just for this, they could still get one at Christmas time) then older players who have been entering the Christmas raffle year after year and not winning anything (when much younger players have won at least once) and younger players who don't have as much experience, have a better chance of acquiring a CB prize.

 

3. All I'm trying to say is equality because at the current moment 99% of prize winners do NOT want to trade for anything other than 2nd gen prizes or prize fails. Even if all you are after is a 2nd gen prize fail.

 

4. Ok so maybe no raffle but maybe your first prize from the 'store' costs 500 tokens, maybe it should go up every time you buy one. Like your second prize costs 1000 tokens. And so on and so foreth. Maybe that's a better idea than limiting.

 

Maybe it should be like Slaskia suggested:

 

In reply:

 

1. I never implied that winners would lose their prizes or have them taken away. I'm just concerned that there are already implications that the store would cause harm to raffle winners and that additional limits are being imposed before this is ever in effect.

 

2. How does this have anything to do with new players/ old players? Everyone should have an equal opportunity at the dragons that are available. I am an old player from 2009 and haven't won in all the years that raffles have been going, but I do not think that I should have any advantages over newer players at this sort of thing. The store is meant to be an even playing field that allows everyone a chance at dragons year around instead of waiting until raffle time to see if a user maybe won. TJ mentioned a limit somewhere that I think was two prizes per breed and color per scroll.

 

3. It's not equal if people are being limited from participating. Limiting prize winners/whomever from participating doesn't do anything to address this problem. It just makes prizes/whatever else more limited.

 

4. This is not an effective means of making dragons equally available as per the suggestion. Additionally, it seems to support the inflation of the dragons' trade value. If the cost of an egg goes up each time that an individual goes to buy a dragon, you can bet they're going to ask for an arm and a leg for offspring (or the dragon itself if it's trade-able) simply because of how much it costs to get one. You can't be against supposed trade values and then support "price inflation."

[Fuzzbucket]

I actually am for exclusive dragons. In my opinion, they should be tied to the scroll like GoN to avoid trading and multi scroller advantage. An exclusive unbreedable would be fun. Perhaps an exclusive breedable for big points that breeds like Frill/Old Pink or maybe the Frill or Old Pink themselves? Random codes of course as TJ does NOT have time to do that for everybody.

 

A possible alternative way to earn points (sorry if it was already suggested) would be to be an active user. While you would have a cap on points, you could choose to play the games for points or be active to earn points. Different activities that would earn points could be...

Getting on DC (once per day)

Being active every day for a week/month

1 year anniversary

Getting a new badge

Grabbing a CB egg

Breeding an egg

Abandoning an egg or hatchy (limit number of eggs that earn points to avoid issues)

Successfully teleporting an egg/hatchy

Using a BSA

Successfully hatching an egg (extra if you don't have it yet)

Freezing a hatchy (extra if you don't have a frozen of it yet)

Raising a hatchy to adulthood (extra if you don't have it yet)

Naming

Discribing

Releasing an adult dragon

 

Each action would be worth a certain number of points. That way, people could choose rather they wanted to earn points via the games, everyday actions, or a mixture of both.

 

Edit: I also like the idea mentioned above of past holidays being available to "purchase" during their respective holiday breeding season. It's an interesting concept.

I'm OK with all this - EXCEPT the exclusive dragon bit - especially if it were unbreedable.. People must not have to come to the store to complete their collections. But I DO like the tied to the scroll idea.

 

I also like what Slaskia says:

 

If we are to limit CB Prize dragon 'purchases' in the store at all, I'd rather it be One per color and type. That way, a raffle winner can still get a CB of all the colors and type they don't have.

 

Edit: to clarify more. Basically, a max of six CB prize dragons (1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze tinsel, and 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze shimmer), gained from either winning or buying.

[Obscure_Trash]

After thinking about this more, as my original hesitant support for the idea was just to help out those who, even being long term players, couldn't catch rarer dragons, I don't think prizes, cb hybrids/alts, or anything not available in cave should be available in a 'store'. My preference is still no store, but some way for people with slower computers, disabilities, etc. to get rarer dragons through loyalty or something, I don't mind.

[linda3.0]

this sounds like a great idea and having limits on certian things would be fine it just makes it more fair for everyone and gives people a chance to get what they otherwise cant due to either it being prize exclusive or not being able to catch or other users over charging for their dragons.

[Ribombee]

After thinking about this more, as my original hesitant support for the idea was just to help out those who, even being long term players, couldn't catch rarer dragons, I don't think prizes, cb hybrids/alts, or anything not available in cave should be available in a 'store'. My preference is still no store, but some way for people with slower computers, disabilities, etc. to get rarer dragons through loyalty or something, I don't mind.

I fully agree with this. It cheapens the idea of prizes and cb hybrid/alts. Some people may claim that the custom code should be the prize, but many prize winners do not have a custom code because they messed up inputting it, it was taken, etc. As much as it would be nice to have more chances to make checkers (And yes, it is still not super easy to get the right combo of 2nd gens even being a CB prize owner), even with my own self-interest in mind, I can see how it would just not feel right. :/

 

Not to mention that if people knew their prizes were going to be available to anyone in the future, how many would have chosen a CB hybrid/alt instead? That was not an option for me, but I know it was an option in the past.

Edited February 17, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Fuzzbucket]

After thinking about this more, as my original hesitant support for the idea was just to help out those who, even being long term players, couldn't catch rarer dragons, I don't think prizes, cb hybrids/alts, or anything not available in cave should be available in a 'store'. My preference is still no store, but some way for people with slower computers, disabilities, etc. to get rarer dragons through loyalty or something, I don't mind.

I'd be OK with this IF the "currency" were earned by simply playing, as has been suggested. That is, after all, earning by loyalty.

 

This thread outlines that possibility and I would MUCH rather see the "currency earned that way than by grinding a game that of itself has nothing to do with the game we joined to play. There are PLENTY of other games out there fro those who want them.

 

And IF CB hybrids were really hard to earn and since they are no longer in the raffle, I would be fine with that. I'm on the fence about prizes.

 

 

[stagazer_7]

I'd be OK with this IF the "currency" were earned by simply playing, as has been suggested. That is, after all, earning by loyalty.

 

This thread outlines that possibility and I would MUCH rather see the "currency earned that way than by grinding a game that of itself has nothing to do with the game we joined to play. There are PLENTY of other games out there fro those who want them.

Earning points through playing sounds great to me, people would simply play the way they always do and over time they would earn enough points to get something from the store.

[Fuzzbucket]

Earning points through playing sounds great to me, people would simply play the way they always do and over time they would earn enough points to get something from the store.

Exactly - and it would encourage them to "play harder"

[Earth Gurl]

I'm all for this, as long as it's not just "bought in a store" with real money. However, I like the idea of awarding those players who PLAY CONSTANTLY with the points. I also think, however, that the amount of points should be incredibly excessive as to keep them relatively rare. As in at least 2 years of points earning to get a CB prize, and each color should be more like Bronze should be lower than Silver and Gold.

Honestly, playing constantly since I was 13, I believe that a CB Prize would be nice if it was representative to my dedication to this website for at least 7 years. I have no intention of leaving anytime soon, so if I was able to earn points for a couple more years in order to EARN a CB Prize, I think that's a wonderful idea. It would make the game more bearable for me, to be honest.

 

On another thought, I don't think CB prizes are that special anymore anyway, especially since they added 600 last round. I'm not going to collect all the different 1G Tinsels/Shimmers for this round; that's way too much. So I don't care about that anymore, so I would be happy if I had the opportunity to earn a CB.

[Sir Barton]

I fully agree with this. It cheapens the idea of prizes and cb hybrid/alts. Some people may claim that the custom code should be the prize, but many prize winners do not have a custom code because they messed up inputting it, it was taken, etc. As much as it would be nice to have more chances to make checkers (And yes, it is still not super easy to get the right combo of 2nd gens even being a CB prize owner), even with my own self-interest in mind, I can see how it would just not feel right. :/

 

Not to mention that if people knew their prizes were going to be available to anyone in the future, how many would have chosen a CB hybrid/alt instead? That was not an option for me, but I know it was an option in the past.

Just tossing this out there for clarification. TJ doesn't want CB hybrids and alts to be a store item, so I think that idea is most likely dead. This would just be for prize dragons and possibly rares. Only shiny things would be earned through loyalty points or whatever comes to be, which reduces my interest in the concept tremendously.

[penguinluv1117]

One of the minigames could be called (Drumroll please) PICKPOCKET THAT PIGMY!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(You love it)

[MagiKKal]

Good idea, as long as you can't just buy the points with real money. I hate it when a site I love turns into some stupid game for people with credit cards. It's happened to me multiple times already. We could also do games that involve logic or mathematics, but nothing too complex. Puzzles would be cool too.

[KuroYukia]

Good idea, as long as you can't just buy the points with real money. I hate it when a site I love turns into some stupid game for people with credit cards. It's happened to me multiple times already. We could also do games that involve logic or mathematics, but nothing too complex. Puzzles would be cool too.

TJ our esteemed admin has already said he will never ask for moneys unless its donations thankfully.

 

Though I'm dyslexic and have discalcuia ( SP) which means no mathy things for me . Logic is ok

Edited March 1, 2015 by KuroYukia

[Esmeia]

I'm really loving the idea of earning points through simply playing the game. A lot of users are pretty active and it'd be really awesome to be able to obtain dragons this way. Whether the dragons you can get are exclusive or can be obtained normally, I can really get behind this. I also hope it would be a nice variety of prizes, not just expensive shinies. I can see being tempted by a lot of different dragons, regardless of rarity.

[AnanoKimi]

I fully agree with this. It cheapens the idea of prizes and cb hybrid/alts. Some people may claim that the custom code should be the prize, but many prize winners do not have a custom code because they messed up inputting it, it was taken, etc. As much as it would be nice to have more chances to make checkers (And yes, it is still not super easy to get the right combo of 2nd gens even being a CB prize owner), even with my own self-interest in mind, I can see how it would just not feel right. :/

 

Not to mention that if people knew their prizes were going to be available to anyone in the future, how many would have chosen a CB hybrid/alt instead? That was not an option for me, but I know it was an option in the past.

Trust me when I say I see your view on making prizes feel cheap. I don't particularly feel this should sell Prizes all year round but maybe once every so often to allow them still a level of rarity ( and difficulty to obtain). Yes earning the points for them will be hard to do, yes its gonna take a while to even get there, but thats my feel on things. Everyone is gonna start throwing rotten tomatoes at me saying that its not fair to only make them available once every so often with how long its already gonna take to gather the points, but I still feel that on top of how much time it takes to get the points, limited sale should still be a thing to encourage people to also play the raffle and so they don't all start playing only for HM and CB Hybrids/Alts because "Oh I'm 1400 points away from that Shimmer I want, I'll just go buy it."

 

And lets say you all say "Well lets never bring HM back then, just placed prizes" Then everyone and their dogs are gonna have a prize because some more dedicated players will have a prize maybe by the time the raffle rolls around and most of those are gonna decline until someone accepts and well by the year after that Raffles are gonna be moot and personally I like raffles. Especially with the whole "Previous winners shouldn't win again" argument some seem to have. So if Prizes are added in make them only available for a limited time every x amount of weeks/months to keep them still as rare as possible and to ensure those of us who enjoy the raffles can still participate in them.

[Jazeki]

Trust me when I say I see your view on making prizes feel cheap. I don't particularly feel this should sell Prizes all year round but maybe once every so often to allow them still a level of rarity ( and difficulty to obtain). Yes earning the points for them will be hard to do, yes its gonna take a while to even get there, but thats my feel on things. Everyone is gonna start throwing rotten tomatoes at me saying that its not fair to only make them available once every so often with how long its already gonna take to gather the points, but I still feel that on top of how much time it takes to get the points, limited sale should still be a thing to encourage people to also play the raffle and so they don't all start playing only for HM and CB Hybrids/Alts because "Oh I'm 1400 points away from that Shimmer I want, I'll just go buy it."

 

And lets say you all say "Well lets never bring HM back then, just placed prizes" Then everyone and their dogs are gonna have a prize because some more dedicated players will have a prize maybe by the time the raffle rolls around and most of those are gonna decline until someone accepts and well by the year after that Raffles are gonna be moot and personally I like raffles. Especially with the whole "Previous winners shouldn't win again" argument some seem to have. So if Prizes are added in make them only available for a limited time every x amount of weeks/months to keep them still as rare as possible and to ensure those of us who enjoy the raffles can still participate in them.

Anano, right now, you're making assumptions of what people will do and using that as your basis for an argument against having prizes or hybrids available. TJ has implied that hybrids won't be available in the store at all, so I'm not going to address that part of your reasoning.

 

But, as I said before, I'd like to have prizes available all the time rather than some arbitrary seasonal/monthly/ what-have-you basis. Some players may miss the raffle and miss the window of opportunity for buying them in the store if they're only there some of the time. A price/ scroll number cap is fine enough for maintaining rarity. Regardless of how many prizes there are in circulation, the number of users still far outnumbers that figure.

 

Also, if the store is implemented, everyone won't be abandoning the raffle in favor of points. The ones who don't want to enter allow those who still do enter a higher chance at winning. If people are smart and haven't reached their (store) scroll cap, they'll do both. That's what I would do regardless of how many points I have. And, there are people who say every year (when they lose) that they will not participate in future raffles. There is no store dictating this mindset.

 

 

Your final paragraph really has nothing to do with the rest of your argument or this suggestion. Many people want HMs back in the raffle and some even expressed that there should be an HM only raffle/event. I believe that the suggestion for doing away with raffles has been locked and each time that argument has been brought back up, there have been people who have argued against it. If anything, the raffle may eventually fade away into the distance if the store or something else comes along, but it won't just end because there is an alternate option for prizes in place. The focus on this suggestion is to have both options rather than one or the other.

 

As for excluding users from access to prizes, TJ doesn't seem to be making any move to disqualify previous winners from participating in the raffle. He only noted a possible cap on store-acquired prizes, which many people (including myself) support to prevent users from buying an endless supply of prizes/other fancy dragons.

 

Finally, having the prizes as rare as possible in the store won't make me enjoy raffles any more than I already do and it won't change the rarity of those already in circulation. It will just make me annoyed that I have to wait longer to buy a prize (after waiting and working to acquire enough points) or enter and maybe win the raffle. The time that it takes to acquire points to afford the prize or be able to enter the raffle should be a long enough wait without adding "additional conditions" to getting a prize from the store. I understand the limited availability of holidays that has been proposed because they only appear once a year. Prizes breed all year round. CB ones only appear once a year because TJ decided that the raffle was going to be a winter event.

 

 

[AnanoKimi]

I mainly based my assumptions/views on the many many comments made here, news thread, etc.

 

I as much as those many want HM's back, and it would be great to see them once more but if they return and prizes are available more often than not regardless of time frame then there will probably be less need for the raffles. Why go in and participate in the raffle when you are a few points away from getting the Prize you actually want instead of taking a chance and getting the one you don't want? Then less people will particiate in the raffle as a consequence, if they do it will be as an aim to get HM to be able to get CB Hybrids/Alts/Holidays.

 

Unless the Prize breeds for raffles are changed and Tinsels/Shimmers are left as store only, I see them being available year round as something that might be a bit damaging. If both Shimmers and Tinsels are retired into the store with their difficult availability then that would keep them widely available and not limited to either raffle or having to limit their availability.

 

Of course you would participate in the raffle, but if you had the main tinsel/shimmer you already had you'd either be in it for HM or for the possibility of getting your second favorite shimmer/tinsel. and if you don't get it? Would you downgrade to HM? Probably. So Yeah. That was my main point, that as people start getting closer to earning the exact thing they want they will no longer feel a need to be a part of the raffle which makes the roll a die and possibly get something they don't want.