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Thuban

Trader's Canyon

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I mainly based my assumptions/views on the many many comments made here, news thread, etc.

 

I as much as those many want HM's back, and it would be great to see them once more but if they return and prizes are available more often than not regardless of time frame then there will probably be less need for the raffles. Why go in and participate in the raffle when you are a few points away from getting the Prize you actually want instead of taking a chance and getting the one you don't want? Then less people will particiate in the raffle as a consequence, if they do it will be as an aim to get HM to be able to get CB Hybrids/Alts/Holidays.

 

Unless the Prize breeds for raffles are changed and Tinsels/Shimmers are left as store only, I see them being available year round as something that might be a bit damaging. If both Shimmers and Tinsels are retired into the store with their difficult availability then that would keep them widely available and not limited to either raffle or having to limit their availability.

 

Of course you would participate in the raffle, but if you had the main tinsel/shimmer you already had you'd either be in it for HM or for the possibility of getting your second favorite shimmer/tinsel. and if you don't get it? Would you downgrade to HM? Probably. So Yeah. That was my main point, that as people start getting closer to earning the exact thing they want they will no longer feel a need to be a part of the raffle which makes the roll a die and possibly get something they don't want.

I know you're using "you" generally in your reply, but you really shouldn't be making assumptions about what anyone would do except for yourself.

 

As the status of what happens regarding HMs in future raffles is unknown, I'm not addressing them.

 

Why go and participate in the raffle? Well, because I can possibly get two prizes in a short amount of time as opposed to one prize and then maybe another prize a year or some months later if I won the raffle.

 

Why participate in the raffle if I know that I can get a prize that I want by buying it as opposed to entering and getting one that I supposedly don't want? Well, I'd be entering because I want all of them to some degree, even the one I like the least. Also, I may not like what I win, but I can use the offspring to get stuff that I do want. Alternatively, I'd win nothing and still buy the prize that I wanted.

 

How is having the tinsels/shimmers available all year round damaging? Other rare things are available in the cave all year round. Just pretend that purchasing X amount of CB prizes (whatever the cap is) is the same as winning that many raffles or catching that many rare things in the cave.

 

If I won something that I already had, I would be darn happy about it and I would not downgrade if I had the option. I'd simply influence it to be a different gender or use it for whatever else I felt like doing. To me, a prize is a prize regardless of what it is and I'd consider myself lucky to even have the chance to own two CB prizes when many people have none.

 

Really, I think you're just focusing too much on hypothetical worries that the store would cause.

 

 

 

 

 

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Why take part in the raffle ? Because I can. Because the events are fun.

 

But I'd still like to be able to acquire the prize dragons in other ways. And I can't see that the store will spoil anything. On the contrary.

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Yeah the 'you' was more general and sorry if it seemed aimed at you personally. Not the case.

 

Neh maybe damaging was the wrong word but at least you see what I mean. But how many actually feel that way. On top of that the bitterness of some who will play less actively, earn slower, and thus complain about users like you and me being able to both buy and win prizes when they can't even get close to one? The things made available all year round were meant to be available all year round.

 

Could just be me and we can wait and see how this all plays out, but I have a feeling that the one thing that will come of this is a possible over saturation of prizes or the tinsels/shimmers being moved to the store to allow new prize breeds and keep the raffle fresh and keep user interest aside from "the events are fun." Which they are. Not saying they are not. Christmas and Halloween events have been awesome. So have most of valentines ones. Just saying :3

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Yeah the 'you' was more general and sorry if it seemed aimed at you personally. Not the case.

 

Neh maybe damaging was the wrong word but at least you see what I mean. But how many actually feel that way. On top of that the bitterness of some who will play less actively, earn slower, and thus complain about users like you and me being able to both buy and win prizes when they can't even get close to one? The things made available all year round were meant to be available all year round.

 

Could just be me and we can wait and see how this all plays out, but I have a feeling that the one thing that will come of this is a possible over saturation of prizes or the tinsels/shimmers being moved to the store to allow new prize breeds and keep the raffle fresh and keep user interest aside from "the events are fun." Which they are. Not saying they are not. Christmas and Halloween events have been awesome. So have most of valentines ones. Just saying :3

The prizes won't be based on "catching ability". So there's going to be no blame games from what I can see. Complaining, yes. Always. But since the points accumulate over time with how much users play, then it's no one else's fault why some can't play enough to get the prize.

 

People will still play the raffle because it's fun, but people will also still play the raffle because they can get a free prize without working for it. (Everyone likes free things). In addition, the ability of users to earn a CB Prize with points will also lessen the loser blow from the raffle. It's horrible not winning. It hurts. It makes people angry and sad. But knowing that they can still get one if they play enough will be a nice safety net and give people more incentive to play more often.

 

I hated the idea of the Prizes when they first came out because of the "elite" players that came with it. Not saying anything about Prize winners, I'm very happy for their success, I don't wish any ill on them or their dragons, and all Prize owners I've talked to are wonderful people. They have all my respect because they are just another lover of dragons like me. But having a CB Prize, and being one of the 1% that have one makes Prize owners a bit above other players. I thought it was rather unfair that the likelihood of my getting a CB Prize (along with many other users) is next to nothing. You just have to get lucky. (Not including the tree decorators, that was earned.) This is my opinion on it, but obv there's nothing I can do about it because they're around to stay. I also love Prizes in general because I love collecting the lines, don't get me wrong. So this is why I love this suggestion. It gives people a chance to receive a dragon that they couldn't before.

 

I do think if the price for CB prizes is too low in the "store", then their value will reduce drastically, and I'm against that. That's why I would like for it to be extremely high. Months/years of playing.

I'm also glad TJ has stated that playing will never cost money. The second you can buy dragons with a credit card is the moment I quit. (Looking at you, Gaiaonline).

Edited by Earth Gurl

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While most of this thread has been based around prizes I'd like to point out another option for it. I just bred two eggs from my old CB blue Nebulas that are "cave" born. The reason being is only old nebulas can breed with male green coppers and create green coppers. I had the same issue with green coppers and whiptails. So if more breeding mechanics that are biome based like coppers are released, a store would be a handy way to get cave born commons back into the mix. Assuming that anything bought from the store would have the location Cave, as to where it was "caught".

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While most of this thread has been based around prizes I'd like to point out another option for it. I just bred two eggs from my old CB blue Nebulas that are "cave" born. The reason being is only old nebulas can breed with male green coppers and create green coppers. I had the same issue with green coppers and whiptails. So if more breeding mechanics that are biome based like coppers are released, a store would be a handy way to get cave born commons back into the mix. Assuming that anything bought from the store would have the location Cave, as to where it was "caught".

Now that IS a good thought.

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Yes, it is. But it still look like neither CB prizes nor CB rares get approval by the majority of players here, and TJ has already stated that he is no fan of making CB hybrids available. I can only guess that that also counts for CB colored stripes and CB alts.

 

Overall, just for non-rares (and maybe not even uncommons), this store will be of absolutely no interest for me because it would be easier to catch the commons instead of "buying" them.

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Yes, it is. But it still look like neither CB prizes nor CB rares get approval by the majority of players here, and TJ has already stated that he is no fan of making CB hybrids available. I can only guess that that also counts for CB colored stripes and CB alts.

 

Overall, just for non-rares (and maybe not even uncommons), this store will be of absolutely no interest for me because it would be easier to catch the commons instead of "buying" them.

No, but if you can get - say - a nebula CB that isn't tied to a biome... that wouldn't be any of the things TJ has so far objected to. You could hope to get different coppers from them at last smile.gif And the same for other biome-related breedings.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I don't agree that the majority are not in favor of prizes or rares being available via the store. I think people have reservations. I do as well, because I think there needs to be some kind of restriction on how many can be purchased overall (not just per user) to avoid issues with ratios. For example, if buying a CB prize costs about a year's worth of points, a year after the store (and point collecting method) is implemented potentially there could be thousands of new prizes about. That could be a problem. The same sort of problem potentially could arise over the purchase of CB golds, silvers, etc. TJ's idea to solve this was a raffle. You spend your points to enter the raffle and if you don't win it you get 80% of the points back. That wasn't a very popular idea.

 

If you reread TJ's response to the CB hybrids thing, you'll see he didn't say he was opposed to having any available this way, especially if this is the only method for obtaining them. He just thinks it should be very limited availability, as far as I could tell from what he said.

 

I have some thoughts on all this, but haven't had time to set them all out in a cohesive way to really look them over for weaknesses. They run along these lines though:

 

X number of CB prizes available per week. (I'm thinking 12 currently. 1 each gold tinsel and shimmer, 2 each silver tinsel and shimmer, 3 each bronze tinsel and shimmer.) If you have the points you can put in for the dragon. Then an RNG rolls to see who gets it. If you aren't the one who gets the egg you get your points back with no penalty. People can only be awarded one of each color of each prize per say... 5 years. But since in my head each would cost a year's worth of points they aren't going to be buying another any time soon. I'm thinking right now that tinsels and shimmers should also be "retired" from the raffle when they become available in the store. A new prize would be awarded through the raffle in numbers similar to the number of prizes this year. 600 of them each year would keep their eggs from being too hard to get for long. They could be the raffle prize for 3 or 4 years, then be retired to the store and a new prize released. No HM in the raffle, whatever level prize you are drawn for is the one you receive. That would make things simple for TJ, as it was this year.

 

X number of each CB rare each week. TJ would be the best judge of how many would be a good number without making them too hard to find in the cave. Again, you'd put in your points and hope to be awarded the egg. You'd be limited in how many of these you can be awarded per time period as well. I'm thinking these should cost about 9 months worth of points.

 

X number of each CB uncommon each week. Would work the same as prizes and rares. Maybe 6 months worth of points. The cooldown for asking for one would be shorter than for rares and prizes, of course.

 

1 CB Hybrid/Alt/Color Morph each week, rotating through the different ones there are, such as frills, cb blacks, cb vines, cb hellhorse, and etc. These should also cost about a year's worth of points. Once you've received one you can't ask for another for X time period. The exception is these wouldn't be available during the breeding week for holidays.

 

Holidays are unlimited for their breeding week but only available during their breeding week. Each holiday would cost about 6 months worth of points. Christmas and Valentines eggs would still be subject to the "2 CB per breed" limit.

 

Commons: the number of each common available each week is something that I think only TJ could figure. There would be no cooldown on how soon you could ask for another one and the point cost would be fairly low. He could even run "store specials" where you could get two of something for the price of one in the case of the super commons that the cave is trying to up the numbers on. Or "buy 5 water walkers for 5 points, get a raffle entry for this year's raffle" sort of special.

 

All the dragons from the store would have "cave" as their origin, so they'd breed the father's copper color in the case of male copper and female these.

 

 

--there are probably issues in this idea I haven't thought of yet. As I said, I haven't had time to write it all down and think it through. That is the gist though of what I was thinking.

tl;dr version - I think there needs to be a cap on how many of each breed can be purchased from the store overall, not just per user.

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I think that number of prizes per week, is set quite a bit too high. 12 x 52 gives you 624 prizes in a year. That's quite a lot... I think I'd maybe halve it.

 

I absolutely agree there needs to be a cap on the total, not just on the user.

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The reason I picked that number is

A. That's about the number of prizes TJ gave out in the raffle this year.

B. I also suggested that tinsels and shimmers not be available in the raffle again, so that would be the only new ones. ~300 each new tinsels and shimmers each year doesn't seem like too many if this is the only source.

C. If 12 per week = only one new gold tin and one new gold shim, how are we going to cut the number smaller? Rotate shims one week and tins the next?

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

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Since the number of my CB coppers is too low to actually make a lineage with them that goes beyond 3rd or even 2nd gen (in the case of verdigris), I don't really care one way or other what kind of copper I'd be able to breed if I bred them, to be honest.

 

Personally, I really don't like the idea of limiting things this way. The time period people need to play actively (or whatever) in itself is a limiting factor already. Another limiting factor is that you can only choose one of each prize after a year, or you could pick one CB breed-only dragon. That's one out of 6 (prizes) + 9 (hybrids, including geode and avatars) + 7 (alts/colored stripes) + 1 (frills), meaning 1 out of 23 possible choices.

 

And don't forget that with rares (at a ratio of 9 months of playing per rare) and uncommons, the system might further limit the number of people who actually manage to save their points to afford one of those very costly things.

 

Overall, there will probably be a surge of people buying prizes after approximately 12 months, but it won't be nearly as bad as some people fear.

 

ETA: Depending on the price ratio of prizes, rares and breed-only dragons, frills and even uncommons, people might prefer to buy multiple rares/uncommons before they buy prizes.

 

For example, if I could get 2 golds instead of a prize or, alternately, 3 silvers, I'd probably stock up on the metals first. Because the value of 2nd gen prizes would drop anyway over time. I'd probably even prefer 2 CB hybrids over 1 CB prize.

Edited by olympe

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Yes, it is. But it still look like neither CB prizes nor CB rares get approval by the majority of players here, and TJ has already stated that he is no fan of making CB hybrids available. I can only guess that that also counts for CB colored stripes and CB alts.

 

Overall, just for non-rares (and maybe not even uncommons), this store will be of absolutely no interest for me because it would be easier to catch the commons instead of "buying" them.

Prizes are a distraction wherever they crop up. It might be best to simply accept that some people will be opposed no matter what. Continue with ideas to get the store in motion and only work on specific cons. IE, the store does need to be something that can't be farmed, yet accessible. And I think what is there needs to be varied enough that it doesn't sink the ratios by everyone rushing for 1 of the same thing.

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While most of this thread has been based around prizes I'd like to point out another option for it. I just bred two eggs from my old CB blue Nebulas that are "cave" born. The reason being is only old nebulas can breed with male green coppers and create green coppers. I had the same issue with green coppers and whiptails. So if more breeding mechanics that are biome based like coppers are released, a store would be a handy way to get cave born commons back into the mix. Assuming that anything bought from the store would have the location Cave, as to where it was "caught".

Sounds good. I somehow don't think Coppers will stay the only biome-dependent dragon ... the concept is there, it's too good to be used only once, just like the Glory Drake mechanic got reused for Solstices!

 

So yeah, being able to acquire a dragon without biome (or where the biome says "store" which just wouldn't influence Coppers, Valentine events and other concepts to come) would be great.

 

 

If you reread TJ's response to the CB hybrids thing, you'll see he didn't say he was opposed to having any available this way, especially if this is the only method for obtaining them. He just thinks it should be very limited availability, as far as I could tell from what he said.

Thank you for pointing this out! My hopes with this store were so crushed when all I saw was basically "no" for them sad.gif

Edited by Ruby Eyes

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Sounds good. I somehow don't think Coppers will stay the only biome-dependent dragon ... the concept is there, it's too good to be used only once, just like the Glory Drake mechanic got reused for Solstices!

*snip*

Somehow, I do think that Coppers will stay the only biome-dependent dragon, at least with that exact breeding mechanic. I've seen several Stripe-like concepts being suggested, some of them quite gorgeous. None of them have made it into the cave. I've also seen things similar to Sunsets/Sunrises, but not one of these mechanics got re-used. The only ones that did was the mechanics for Glory Drakes - and I feel like that was more of a stop-gap measure to deal with the drama. Sure, the scroll-coded mechanic got used for both Snow Angels and Sweetlings, too - but again, that might have been more of a spur of the moment thing than something that had been planned.

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Well, we'll see how your or my clairvoyant skills will work out for the future. wink.gif

Fact is, the concept is there, and people are working with it.

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Somehow, I do think that Coppers will stay the only biome-dependent dragon, at least with that exact breeding mechanic.

I have at least THREE concepts that are biome specific hanging around hoping for release. At least two have very specific biome related quirks. One concept is 100% biome based (everything about them comes down to biome related things)

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I absolutely loathe the whole idea of "buying" dragons and ingame-currency. Why do you want people to play a load of mini games instead of DC? I want to play DC, not mini games, but if dragons are only availabe through mini games, playing the games to maintain a complete scroll is practically mandatory.

 

 

 

And even worse, cycling dragons out would also to force players to play games within a certain time span.

I second this, also as some others had stated, DC is one of those rare games where you can actually get all creatures without earning stuff or "paying" for them and that is one of the main reasons I like playing this. So I don't like this idea at all.

Edited by Xorath

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Well, then it's a good thing that this "store" wouldn't have any new creatures that you cannot get any other way, but only established breeds.

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Well, then it's a good thing that this "store" wouldn't have any new creatures that you cannot get any other way, but only established breeds.

YES INDEED. (though I could live with CB hybrids...)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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YES INDEED. (though I could live with CB hybrids...)

Yeah... even if they were as expensive as rares, I'd really really like CB Hybrids.

 

But I think one of the strong points of the 'store' idea, is that it's a different way of getting the same dragons other people have gotten either via the cave or raffles.

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I would like to eventually see our current prizes actually retired. Retiring them though, would stop allowing new people to win, which would be a horrible thing. I understand hesitation of having prizes in the "store", but to me, it seems like if we move them into the store, we can open the door for new types of prizes to happen with raffles. That way, we arent retiring them (so no new cbs are available), anyone who wants them can work for them.. but yay for possibilities of new types of prizes being a thing with ingame raffles, without being bogged down by the existing ones.

 

 

I'm still cool with only one of each prize being able to be obtained in the store, but am willing to compromise by allowing two of each. I do think Tins should be "cheaper" than shimmers since they have been around much, much longer.

 

I dont think we need specific limits on whatever cb dragons (commons - metal rares) you guys are hoping to throw in there, outside of the prizes.. its your points, do what you want with them. The exception of course would be cb hybrids, if added. Shoot, I am totally ok with only one cb hybrid EVER being allowed on that front (that should help severely limit them a bit tongue.gif)

 

As said before, we dont have to call it a store, im just calling it one for ease.

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YES INDEED. (though I could live with CB hybrids...)

Well, hybrids aren't exactly new creatures, to be honest. Not even as CBs. All it would take would be to have them extraordinarily expensive, similar to Prizes. That would limit the amount of them you could afford as well as the amount of people who'd opt for a CB hybrid instead of a prize breed.

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Honestly, the idea that any CB Hybrids/Alts in the store WOULDN'T be on par with theoretically-appearing Prizes as far as pricing goes is strange to me. They were only available as honorary mention prizes for a long while, so it makes sense that they would be priced like them.

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