Trader's Canyon

[Fiona]

My vision for this was something like 10 points per week, with a cost for a prize of something in the neighborhood of 500 to 600 points. That would be about 50 to 60 weeks to earn a prize (or a shot at a prize, depending on how that part was implemented, since I think too many prizes across the user base would be a problem)

 

I think a cb hybrid/alt/color morph should also be in that neighborhood, and cb holidays perhaps half that, but also limited to their breeding week and limited by the cb cap that already exists. (i.e. no more than 2 cb hollies on each scroll)

 

I don't think it's actually necessary to exclude any actions. Once you hit the point cap you aren't going to earn any more points for that time period so who cares how you earned them? The thing is that it would encourage regular play. Also, picking up an egg from the cave should be a point, but not from the AP. (Someone already got a point for that egg by either picking it up from the cave or breeding the egg. You getting a point too is double-dipping on that egg) I think getting a point for a teleport would be fine when the teleport resolves. (as in, if a claim link someone else claims it, or if a trade link the actual exchange takes place.)

[_Sin_]

I do like the idea of Actions being the primary way of gaining points, since that wouldn't affect any other players scroll, although killing and releasing do seem to go against the basic playing idea of collecting dragons. Maybe killing or releasing would lose a point, but successful biting or zombification would restore or add to those points?.

Not sure I like the idea of Action being the primary way of gaining points. That would exclude hunting in the cave or picking up from the AP. Not so fair to the "collectors" play style.

For the same reason, I would not "discriminate" against any other type of Action. Not my role to make the judgement call on which actions are acceptable or not. This is just my opinion: if an Action is allowed by the game, it should count towards the cap.

[Ruby Eyes]

Also, picking up an egg from the cave should be a point, but not from the AP. (Someone already got a point for that egg by either picking it up from the cave or breeding the egg. You getting a point too is double-dipping on that egg)

Why not? It also counts for each owner as an egg owned for encyclopedia purposes ...

[_Sin_]

Why not? It also counts for each owner as an egg owned for encyclopedia purposes ...

I must agree with Ruby Eyes. If we start going on the direction of excluding actions that concern the same egg, we will need to exclude a lot of them. For example if someone breeds an egg and abandons and the next owner picks it up and kills or freezes or breeds it, those actions wouldn't count either.

Personally, I would keep it simple. Hunt, pick up, every Action counts. I'm assuming a (weekly?) periodic cap.

 

Edited to add something important.

Edited April 16, 2015 by _Sin_

[olympe]

I think it depends heavily on the kind of cap imposed.

 

If the cap is as low as 10 points per week, I couldn't care less how they're achieved.

If the cap was 10 points per day, people would be hard-pressed to get them without the use of actions. But should (for example) hiding and unhiding the same egg 5 times in a row get you to the limit? Or should it be different actions, at the very least? (grab an egg, incubate it, influence it, hatch another egg, raise another hatchling, hide one egg/hatchie, use 4 BSAs or scroll actions (Splash, Fertility, Summon, Breed, Name, Abandon, Release, Kill, Bite, Earthquake, Describe, Freeze...)

[dragongrrl]

Not sure I like the idea of Action being the primary way of gaining points. That would exclude hunting in the cave or picking up from the AP. Not so fair to the "collectors" play style.

For the same reason, I would not "discriminate" against any other type of Action. Not my role to make the judgement call on which actions are acceptable or not. This is just my opinion: if an Action is allowed by the game, it should count towards the cap.

Depends on the collector.

 

I consider myself an active collector, and I currently have about 23 hours covered in my Action Log. Discount for my flaky mouse, and that's stil about 50 Actions in a 24 hour period.

[Thuban]

My normal play does not involve naming, BSA, or a few other things. At most, I grab a few eggs, breed a few thngs, hatch a few things, and sometimes name a few things.

 

 

Points from every day play shouldnt have to have to have specific "this works, this doesnt" things. One per action, per dragon per day. That way even new players who only have a few dragons can reasonably earn points. It doesnt take most people long to breed ten or so times, to use a few bsa abilities.. most people don't think about how many actions they take a day. If you havent looked in awhile, go peek at your action log. My oldest action is March 29, for example. Im not as active as other people when it comes to my scroll.

 

I still prefer weekly cap, over daily. That way those people who only play a few hours a day, or jam-pack a week of game time into a day have the same ability to earn points.

[Fuzzbucket]

Depends on the collector.

 

I consider myself an active collector, and I currently have about 23 hours covered in my Action Log. Discount for my flaky mouse, and that's stil about 50 Actions in a 24 hour period.

This. My action log is FULL of hide, name, unhide, etc. (I wish hide and name didn't show actually - and as one who has asked for options in what does and doesn't show, you can see how "seriously" I take those as actions that should count.)

 

I'd much prefer to stick with acquire egg/hatchie (by breeding or catching), raise dragon, breed and POSSIBLY freeze.

 

But yes to weekly rather than daily totals - people who work can then catch up on weekends

[_Sin_]

This. My action log is FULL of hide, name, unhide, etc. (I wish hide and name didn't show actually - and as one who has asked for options in what does and doesn't show, you can see how "seriously" I take those as actions that should count.)

 

I'd much prefer to stick with acquire egg/hatchie (by breeding or catching), raise dragon, breed and POSSIBLY freeze.

 

But yes to weekly rather than daily totals - people who work can then catch up on weekends

Maybe I should bump up the original thread I started quite a bit ago about activities being the way to earn points. There were several good ideas there :-)

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe I should bump up the original thread I started quite a bit ago about activities being the way to earn points. There were several good ideas there :-)

There were. But KISS, I think !

[_Sin_]

There were. But KISS, I think !

Hey that's one of my favorite concepts :-)

[Pixxelation]

I'm still very strongly opposed to this idea. One of the things I really like about DC is that it is simple. If we start overcomplicating it by adding alternative ways to earn dragons, such as this currency/point system, values of certain dragons will become standardized which goes against much of the charm of DC's fully free-market economy. I feel like it will take away from the things I love about this game, and though I'm not sure to what degree I would dislike it, I definitely would feel some degree of interest loss. I'm sure I'd still play and sprite for the site, but my time spent actually playing would likely decrease as a result. Gameplay would feel way too different.

[AnanoKimi]

I'm still very strongly opposed to this idea. One of the things I really like about DC is that it is simple. If we start overcomplicating it by adding alternative ways to earn dragons, such as this currency/point system, values of certain dragons will become standardized which goes against much of the charm of DC's fully free-market economy. I feel like it will take away from the things I love about this game, and though I'm not sure to what degree I would dislike it, I definitely would feel some degree of interest loss. I'm sure I'd still play and sprite for the site, but my time spent actually playing would likely decrease as a result. Gameplay would feel way too different.

Personally I wouldnt sprite knowing that if I participate in the creation of anything rare (Like the holidays you've made) they would be slapped with a generic price and placed into a system I dislike :3 Thats just me though because I too don't agree with this system but hey, everyone needs to have everything SO whatcha gonna do?

 

I'm not fully supportive of this idea but that is also why I have been offering my opinion on how to alleviate some of the blehness of this concept. I want to help make sure this idea takes over as little of DC as possible because I really enjoy the game as it is now and well I know for a fact that this idea is going to kill quite a bit of the enjoyment for some users. Oh well.

[KrazyKarp]

I'm still quite fond of this idea. My goal has and always will be to have at least two CB of every dragon: holidays, prizes, everything. I'm very fixated on this. Really, any idea allowing me to achieve this that makes sense I'll agree with.

I honestly think it's rather silly that for only three days in a lifetime you can get a CB of holidays. Three days in a lifetime. Yeesh. That'd mean slowly but surely, owners of CB holidays would gradually leave, 2nd gens skyrocket in prices, economy gets screwed up, etc. etc. And prize dragons, that's a bigger problem. I definitely agree with placing them in the store. The way they're distributed and how they've heavily and, in my opinion, negatively impacted the economy is very frustrating. As for CB hybrids, I think TJ made it clear they weren't gonna be added, and I agree with that. New store-only dragons, eh, kinda neutral on that, leaning to no support.

 

Basically, I look at a lot from an economy standpoint. I really think this could help a lot.

[Syphoneira]

Thank you for your comments here, fuzzbucket! <3

 

I'm still not entirely convinced about the need for a store, but if it happens, the idea of getting points from clicking absolutely terrifies me because I do try to raise all my babies without any clicks. From my perspective, it's sort of an unconsented touching, the definition of battery in rl. While random clicks do happen, I work very hard to prevent them, and it is heartbreaking whenever I see someone has decided to click all the unfogged babies on my scroll. Giving points for clicking other people's dragons would destroy one of my primary scroll goals.

 

Since raising a dragon with 0 clicks is harder to do, maybe 0-click adults should gain points.

 

I do like the idea of Actions being the primary way of gaining points, since that wouldn't affect any other players scroll, although killing and releasing do seem to go against the basic playing idea of collecting dragons. Maybe killing or releasing would lose a point, but successful biting or zombification would restore or add to those points?.

 

 

 

Personally, I would very much like to see points earned not for Clicking but for hours of fansite Viewing per week, which would also help encourage more people to do this more often and help improve the chronically awful U View rates which slow gendering and other development rates.

 

This is something which would help virtually everyone raising dragons in various of the different fansites...

 

 

Also, I totally agree that things like killing and Releasing dragons should not gain positive points for a negative action reducing a collection, but that clearly no point should lost for changing an existing dragon into something else.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm still very strongly opposed to this idea. One of the things I really like about DC is that it is simple. If we start overcomplicating it by adding alternative ways to earn dragons, such as this currency/point system, values of certain dragons will become standardized which goes against much of the charm of DC's fully free-market economy. I feel like it will take away from the things I love about this game, and though I'm not sure to what degree I would dislike it, I definitely would feel some degree of interest loss. I'm sure I'd still play and sprite for the site, but my time spent actually playing would likely decrease as a result. Gameplay would feel way too different.

Actually I totally agree with you. I hate the idea.

 

But I post, like AnanoKimi, because if it happens, I'd like certain things absolutely NOT to happen within it, so it's worth saying what aspects would be unthinkable in the event (like grinding !)

 

@Ultra - that's life. There are ALL KINDS of things where you had to be there to get them. The idea of this FROM AN ECONOMY STANDPOINT speaks of everything I (and many others) have vehemently posted against over the last several years. This isn't the stock market. I hate the way some people seem to see it that way.

 

Syph - how on earth could anyone monitor fan site activity - as has been said a zillion times - TJ has no control over or access to their data - which is why he can't identify viewbombers, either. Sadly - while I know what you mean - I think that is a non-starter.

[Pyroturtle]

~Off-topic spam removed~ Edited April 18, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[AnanoKimi]

Actually I totally agree with you. I hate the idea.

 

But I post, like AnanoKimi, because if it happens, I'd like certain things absolutely NOT to happen within it, so it's worth saying what aspects would be unthinkable in the event (like grinding !)

 

@Ultra - that's life. There are ALL KINDS of things where you had to be there to get them. The idea of this FROM AN ECONOMY STANDPOINT speaks of everything I (and many others) have vehemently posted against over the last several years. This isn't the stock market. I hate the way some people seem to see it that way.

 

Syph - how on earth could anyone monitor fan site activity - as has been said a zillion times - TJ has no control over or access to their data - which is why he can't identify viewbombers, either. Sadly - while I know what you mean - I think that is a non-starter.

This. All of this. This is not a stock market. Honestly if 2g of old holidays became hard to obtain then thats the game man. Hopefully TJ continues to add in HM winners to the raffles even if its on an on and off basis because I see that as a much better way of dealing with the issue of "I want this but can't have it" seeing as HM allows you to get most past holidays, hybrids, ALts, Frills, among other things. I would really just like to see that come back. I know it frustrates most people because its a game of chance but honestly I like that better over this. I don't know.

 

Regardless the concept has been made and as such we will ensure that if this is even considered for creation that it is something that is not only fair but sensible.

 

~Removed~ Please leave such posts to mods, thanks.

Edited April 18, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Syphoneira]

Actually I totally agree with you. I hate the idea.

 

But I post, like AnanoKimi, because if it happens, I'd like certain things absolutely NOT to happen within it, so it's worth saying what aspects would be unthinkable in the event (like grinding !)

 

@Ultra - that's life. There are ALL KINDS of things where you had to be there to get them. The idea of this FROM AN ECONOMY STANDPOINT speaks of everything I (and many others) have vehemently posted against over the last several years. This isn't the stock market. I hate the way some people seem to see it that way.

 

Syph - how on earth could anyone monitor fan site activity - as has been said a zillion times - TJ has no control over or access to their data - which is why he can't identify viewbombers, either. Sadly - while I know what you mean - I think that is a non-starter.

 

 

 

I'd no idea of that; the last time I recall reading about it, I thought some people had said that this could potentially be done through the API and the person's scroll name.

 

But as I've mentioned earlier, I much prefer the psychological aspects of accumulating (any sort of) mana to conjure up (by whatever term would be used) dragons by magic, in accordance with the site world-view, rather than cold-bloodedly purchasing them in a store using currency, expanding the stock market aspect to which a number of of us object, and find the latter direction rather discouraging, so I haven't much been following this thread.

 

 

Edit: would like to add that I agree with Thuban in the area of having the older Prizes and CB Alts, etc., available through some such means as this so that new Prizes could be Released - as long as these were in decent quantities so as to avoid the worst levels of the problems we've already experienced.

 

My personal opinion, however, would be that a more extreme rarity, especially forever, isn't actually a good thing overall on this particular game; it just requires a steady influx of new dragons in any case essential in order to keep people active onsite but also that they be able to actually obtain these dragons with reasonable time and effort, because for most of us, not having enough incoming new dragons - and especially not being able to get the dragons we want/need - keeps us neither fruitfully busy nor amused, most especially with breeding issues, especially among new pairings, taking its toll on the pleasures of that.

 

If a leisure-time game played for amusement isn't fun or frequently rewarding, what's the point?

 

If it is, then people spend more time on site, having more things to do and enjoy, with hope of achieving each new goal to tackle another as it arrives.

 

We get paid for the boring, repetitive treadmill stuff at work but are typically looking for something completely different in our off-time.

 

And having the market-place obtrude into virtually every DC player's experience in one way or another, due to more extreme rarity issues, has not been much appreciated by a good portion of the members...

Edited April 18, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Thuban]

As a more clear reason for why I said what I did about the prizes:

 

If we retire all of the older ones, and toss them into the store instead, then the option becomes available for TJ to start off NEW prizes in a way that better matches how our game economy works.

 

*New ones could easily be released at higher numbers, without having to readjust for old ones being handed out.

*New ones could be retired out after x amount of time. Using previous prizes as an example, tins had two years before the next ones were added. If new ones are handed out in higher numbers, we could, in theory cycle through them faster, retiring new breeds after a year or two to the store.

 

Older prizes, could have their point cost dropped over time, as there would be more of them in existance, eventually.

 

(I will admit im half asleep typing this, hopefully, im being clear here about my thoughts.. If not, I'll rethink it in the morning)

[Jazeki]

Just to clarify, Thu, none of the prizes that move into the store would retire from being available once they were there, correct? They'd just drop in price the longer they were available?

[Pixxelation]

*NOTE: I am still vehemently against adding a shop. However, these are controls I think should be added*

 

Suggestion: Don't keep the shop year-round. Have it available during holiday seasons, with prizes only available in the month of January. No CB alts/hybrids. The older the holiday, the higher the price. Prizes, the opposite--the newer, the higher priced. That way, CB Hollies are still kept rare, and it takes longer for the CB prize owners' winnings to decrease in value.

 

If this has already been suggested, ignore this post--haven't been following the thread too closely.

 

EDIT: Also, forgot: I'd also suggest limiting it to one prize purchase a year and 2 CBs per holiday (IE: 2 Halloweens, not 2 of each kind of Halloween) a year.

Edited April 23, 2015 by PieMaster

[pederino]

Just to clarify, Thu, none of the prizes that move into the store would retire from being available once they were there, correct? They'd just drop in price the longer they were available?

From what I understand. What Thuban wants is something like this:

 

Raffle: A new set of prize dragons.

Old prize dragons: in the store. The older the sprite, the cheaper. So Tinsels would be cheaper than Shimmers.

 

After a certain amount of years (lets say 2 or 3), the new prize dragons will move to the store, and a complete new set of prize dragons will be available as Raffle prizes for another amount of time, and the prices of the older prizes in the store will lower to accomodate the new store prizes.

 

But, just like in this raffle you could not ask for other things like hybrids, or past holidays, Tinsels and Shimmers will not be available in future raffles. Her point is that this new set of prizes can be given in a good quantity (for example, we had 600 prizes this raffle: 300 Shimmers, 300 Tinsels, so it could be 600 for a single prize (maybe less can be good too, like 500 or 400, since it will be only one breed)), so it doesnt take over the market completely, just like old prizes did; but you can still get the old prizes, just to avoid monopolization.

 

I think thats what she means, more or less (and sorry if it actually causes more confusion...)

[KrazyKarp]

@Ultra - that's life. There are ALL KINDS of things where you had to be there to get them. The idea of this FROM AN ECONOMY STANDPOINT speaks of everything I (and many others) have vehemently posted against over the last several years. This isn't the stock market. I hate the way some people seem to see it that way.

The great part is that this isn't real life. It's a game, so things can be changed where you won't have to have been here to get CB holidays when they were first out, and you won't have to have truckloads of luck to get a CB prize. I completely understand that's life, but this is a game.

 

On a different note, I actually very much like PieMaster's idea of the shop only being open at certain times of the year, as well as the general idea of pricing. I don't agree with the one prize per. year and 2 CBs per. holiday idea, though. Then again I could most likely live with those limits, but I'd rather not.

[AnanoKimi]

2 CB Holidays per person/scroll is a unversal rule/limit of DC whether you get them from the day they drop or you get them from this store. You only, ever, get 2. Thats it. It has been that way from the begining, it will probably continue that way til DC closes down. There is a thread to up the limit to I believe four found here But anything more than 4 and its met with a gigantic no from the community and I agree. Although I dislike Pie's idea of the only 2 CB Halloweens ever since the point of the store is to help those who have missed out catch up to some degree. I can agree to maybe 2 CB limit of any holiday from the store per scroll but not just 2 CBs ever.

 

Aside from that, this may not be life but this game is a life of its own and it follows many of the rules of real life because we don't play a game of rainbow and sparkles where you get everything handed to you in a silver platter all the time. For something you are here or you are not, for some things you are lucky or you are not, for something you either have a super fast internet connection and surprisingly faster click reactions, or you dont. That is DC life. It may not be agreeable to everyone but it is a thing of DC.

 

On that note, 1 Prize per year is perfect. it should take at maximum 1 year for a casual DC player, someone who log in every so often and does a few things here and there to earn enough points to get a prize and at minimum 6 months for an active player that logs in every day, does a lot of trading, catching, raising, breeding, etc, to earn their prize. It ensures that prizes are kept rare, but that they continue to be obtained by others to keep the breeding pool fresh.

 

On top of that I also like the 1 Prize of each tier kind limit. This will again ensure that prizes are kept relatively rare and true to their prize name, but at the same time again keeping the breeding pool fresh. I would dislike it more but if its a must then at max 2 of each prize tier per (for those who want a male and female of each) but I would very much Just like to stick to 1 prize of each tier per scroll

 

I also like Pie's idea of the store only being availabel during Holidays meaning all three available holidays where the respective holidays will be present. This means that things like prizes and the respective holiday dragons of that holiday will be available for that celebration time (starting from the breeding and ending on the last day of the event scheduled) and well those who can afford it then can get a holiday or a prize or both if they can afford it and it ensure that again prizes are kept rare while still available.

Edited April 27, 2015 by AnanoKimi