Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) A concern I have with prices that are variable (as in an auction) is that they could become inflated due to people over-offering on things. People wanting to be certain they got the egg would tend to offer everything they could. I would rather see some sort of raffle system, where you give X points (depending on how "rare" the thing is) for a raffle entry for that week/month/period of time. If you lose a percentage of the invested points are returned. If you win you can't enter that exact raffle again for Y period, again dependent on the thing being raffled. Unless TJ goes for a simple points "buy" system where you plunks down yer points and you gets yer egg. That would have to be tightly controlled though. X of each breed in Y period of time per person. (Edit: actually typing all the words helps clarity) Edited January 24, 2015 by Fiona BlueFire Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I agree with Fiona that inflation would be a problem with anything doing with an auction and that people will put in everything they have to try and win. This doesn't give a steady price, but rather a jumble compilation of points each time people bid. It's like posting an egg up for trade and asking for "offers". Offers could range from a single "messiest/inbred" (which is usually perceived as the bottom of trade worth) egg to 4x random CB eggs/hatchlings to a single CB Trio/Unbreedable, etc. Basically whoever has the best offer wins (though that is more opinion based) and just like this whoever has the highest bid wins and I'm sure the less active members on here would be the ones with less points if there isn't a cap and even if there is it wouldn't surprise me that they still missed out on their daily cap of points. Heck, we have users that have been here for years and still miss the event by a couple of days and even a day/few hours (though the few hours is very less likely). X___X ETA: To clarify by what I meant by "event" I meant the holiday release ~ Edited January 24, 2015 by Saynna Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) One thing I just thought of (and thus haven't thought through) is some sort of percentile system. That is: Rather than having prices, you put in an offer for an egg. Only the top 20% of offers (that is, the most expensive offers) get the egg; everyone else tries again later (perhaps with only 80% refunded, to stop people from continuously offering when they don't know). The site can show the current average price (or the winning price from the previous day). Thus, the price is still set by whatever people are willing to pay, and there's also incentive to try to pick a good price, rather than just spamming a low one and hoping no one else "bids" high. But that's essentially some form of an auction. Interesting idea... Only, speaking from my perspective, that would increase the emphasis on the commercial value of dragons, as opposed to the appreciation of dragons for their sprites/RP/lineage, whatever players choose individually to value them by, by instituting bidding for magical creatures. I've never played ebay myself... Personally, I'd so much rather that we summoned the dragons in this magical world in some magical manner, than by acquiring them through cold-bloodedly purchasing them in a commercial-type transaction - high bidder taking all and low bidders losing a percentage. The other thing is that this would continuously drive up the prices offered on these dragons, and most likely from there also on any other hard-to-come-by dragon in regular trades. We've been seeing this for years in the trade threads, regarding those making ever-more-enormous offers, being desperate for 2nd gen Prizes even then not available for trade due to the CB and produced offspring numbers - heck, diaper-wrapped DC people would probably starve to death over their laptops endlessly grinding for dragons, and while I could stand to lose weight... There would be even more disparity, more unhappiness, and the good done for the site atmosphere and general player outlook by the increase in the number of Prizes issued this year would, I strongly feel, be more than undone by another such influence turning DC even more into a 'get rich quick' investment site rather than the pet-collecting family site DC seems to have been designed as and which many of us older players joined. Obviously, it's your site, but speaking as a long-addicted player, I'd really hate to see DC charging full-tilt straight back into a direction we seemed finally to have a chance of turning at least a little away from. Rather than an auction, I'd personally (edit: prefer to) see this idea designed as a smaller additional weekly or monthly lottery, where people earned tickets which they could apply toward a draw for specific dragons, if control over numbers issued is the purpose. At least that way, we could avoid further immersion in direct commercialization of expensive dragons and the attendant issues with which so many are already unhappy. And I can see that I've been 'd, but here goes anyway, lol. Edited January 24, 2015 by Syphoneira Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 One thing I just thought of (and thus haven't thought through) is some sort of percentile system. That is: Rather than having prices, you put in an offer for an egg. Only the top 20% of offers (that is, the most expensive offers) get the egg; [yadda yada] Thus, the price is still set by whatever people are willing to pay, [...] Which means some of us will still never get a Prize, because they don't have the same value to all people. There is a percentage of the population that -HATES- trades because you have people who have '5 each CB Gold and Silver Eggs' (I reported that post) who only want 2nd gens, and other heavily skewed trade offers that we can't hope to counter or compete with. Most discussions are assuming that Prizes and Golds are the Holy Grail, and that's just not true for everyone, no matter what it looks like in Trades. Honestly, I'd almost rather have a CB Goldfish or Bluna, or an Alt... I could do lots with an Alt or old Holiday. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 A concern I have with prices that are variable (as in an auction) is that they could become inflated due to people over-offering on things. People wanting to be certain they got the egg would tend to offer everything they could. I would rather see some sort of raffle system, where you give X points (depending on how "rare" the thing is) for a raffle entry for that week/month/period of time. If you lose a percentage of the invested points are returned. If you win you can't enter that exact raffle again for Y period, again dependent on the thing being raffled. Unless TJ goes for a simple points "buy" system where you plunks down yer points and you gets yer egg. That would have to be tightly controlled though. X of each breed in Y period of time per person. (Edit: actually typing all the words helps clarity) I don't like this. Even with TJ's suggestion of getting an 80% refund in the case of not "winning" the bid, this can be quite hurtful. Imagine this scenario: For weeks on end, golds have gone for an average of 100,000 points, usually a little less. Now you have collected these 100,000 points, make a bid for a gold - and don't win. Because the "cheapest" gold offer that did win was 100,001 points. In essence, this would mean that you had just lost 20,000 points for merely bidding. If bidding has to cost something, make it a fixed price. Also, I have a feeling (that I can't really put reasons to) that such a system would lead to inflation of prices. Because people with more points would offer much more than absolutely necessary in order to be sure to get what they're offering on. Does that make any sense? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I hate the idea of an auction with an absolute passion. I use ebay a lot - I need to for my collection- and that is quite enough stress, thanks Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 Prize dragons are way more likely to happen than CB hybrids. I'd rather not have CBs of breeds that were never intended to be CB becoming anything close to the "norm." I won't deny this a huge dissapointment to me. I was *so* sure that the reason why there was no HMs was this "shop" idea. Not that I have anything against prizes but... How about past Christmas dragons? Is this option still on the table? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I'm not thrilled with the idea of an auction in any way, shape, or form, especially if it will cost me just to place a bid. I'd much rather have set prices, preferably ones that are not subject to change. As far as the CB Hybrids go - definitely understand wanting to keep those special, but if you price them high enough, wouldn't that help keep them at a preferred rarity? Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I'm not thrilled with the idea of an auction in any way, shape, or form, especially if it will cost me just to place a bid. I'd much rather have set prices, preferably ones that are not subject to change. As far as the CB Hybrids go - definitely understand wanting to keep those special, but if you price them high enough, wouldn't that help keep them at a preferred rarity? I would think that pricing them highly could work. Some folks might choose to save up for one, others would rather have other things. Myself , for instance, can think of things I would like FIRST. I would probably buy some of the CB holidays I missed out on... Solstices, Graves! Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I think one of the reasons auctions and raffles and the like keep getting thrown out there is the "zero-sum" type of game base. That is, if there are winners, there must also be losers. One big reason for such a game philosophy is to prevent inflation. I think it keeps the number of rewards under control so the player base isn't flooded with cb prizes and such. If everyone can just "earn X points, get shiny" the only way to control how many shinies are purchased is to limit how many points are gained. But a "so many shinies per week/month" method is better control over the numbers. I'd been mulling over some ideas for this. Haven't concluded my mulling yet, but if the system was set up so that there were 12 cb prizes given out each week (1 gold shim, 1 gold tin, 2 silver shim, 2 silver tin, 3 bronze shim, 3 bronze tin) that would equal 624 cb prizes over the course of a year, which is roughly equal to this year's raffle. There are issues with this, as what happens if there's a new prize dragon released? What happens to the current raffle? Are dragons from the cave a good idea, and if so how many? Probably other questions too. But the reason I was thinking in these terms was because it controlled the number of these dragons given out this way. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I would think that pricing them highly could work. Some folks might choose to save up for one, others would rather have other things. Myself , for instance, can think of things I would like FIRST. I would probably buy some of the CB holidays I missed out on... Solstices, Graves! Pricing them well above Prizes would work quite well. Most would save for the Prizes.... All 6 of them, first. A couple wouldn't, but most would. And if Prizes take 6 months to get each one (and limited to 2 per sprite color), it would likely be 3 years or so before most started saving up for the alts. And you could limit the alts / hybrids more than the Prizes, too. Maybe 1 from each category or something? Or maybe one every other year? Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I can understand the need to limit the number of prizes given out over a years time to keep them rare, but if we're throwing the luck factor back into this mix, I'm definitely out. One raffle a year is entirely enough for me. My support for this idea came from giving people a chance to work for what they wanted. I, personally, don't need the added disappointment/frustration of losing weekly/monthly. Metal hunting in the Cave covers that need perfectly. Auctions don't appeal to me either. Like Fuzz, I do a lot on Ebay, and at least if I lose an auction there, it doesn't cost me anything. I would happily (mostly) work for a year or more to achieve my end goal, but if I have to roll the dice.. no. I wasn't born with gambling blood. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 The thing is that people are afraid that everyone would buy every available color of prize or regular metal available on a regular basis. What they forget is that if you buy one of them, you cannot buy any of the other for quite some time to come. If you buy a CB gold now, it will take you another 6 months of saving up before you can buy another. Or a CB prize. or whatever. (Yes, the 6 months thing is an arbitrary number picked from suggestions in this very thread.) Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I don't see over inflation as much of a potential problem either. *Caps on how many points can be earned *Caps on how many dragons of each type can be had, maybe two, for a breeding pair of each? *dragons and points non-tradable * high starting bids would mean people would need to pick and choose what they most wanted, not that they could earn enough points to buy like crazy, as Olympe points out. Take the cost of six months, say someone was really determined so they saved for a year, just to be sure they win the dragon they are after. In the meantime they haven't bid on anything, and once they have won they spend at least another six months saving points before they can afford to even think of bidding for that item again Unlike ebay there aren't a limited number available, the same dragons would be up for auction repeatedly. Multiple quantities of each type each bidding session? Closed bids to prevent sniping? Some sort of tie breaker in the event of multiple winning bids, maybe the player who places the high bid first? I do NOT like the idea of losing points just for bidding either, I have never heard of a real life auction doing that and I do think the idea is off putting. I'm also still concerned at not having CB hybrids available at all any more. That seems like replacing one problem of exclusiveness and rarity with another. I understand not wanting them to be common, but they are already in the community and I fear this could really drive up the price for offspring. Edited January 24, 2015 by Tawanda001 Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I can understand the need to limit the number of prizes given out over a years time to keep them rare, but if we're throwing the luck factor back into this mix, I'm definitely out. One raffle a year is entirely enough for me. My support for this idea came from giving people a chance to work for what they wanted. I, personally, don't need the added disappointment/frustration of losing weekly/monthly. Metal hunting in the Cave covers that need perfectly. Auctions don't appeal to me either. Like Fuzz, I do a lot on Ebay, and at least if I lose an auction there, it doesn't cost me anything. I would happily (mostly) work for a year or more to achieve my end goal, but if I have to roll the dice.. no. I wasn't born with gambling blood. This. What I love about the store and the activity suggestions are that they both work on the basis of earning your desired dragons, not fighting other players for them. Adding more luck or competition to the mix will only add new frustrations. I am fine with having to work for a year for a CB Prize, or even three years for a CB Hybrid. I don't particularly care one way or the other if in-cave species are made available to "purchase" or "adopt" or whatever. I just don't want to have to fight other people to get it - I want to be able to work for it and be rewarded for my efforts. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I don't see over inflation as much of a potential problem either. *Caps on how many points can be earned *Caps on how many dragons of each type can be had, maybe two, for a breeding pair of each? *dragons and points non-tradable * high starting bids would mean people would need to pick and choose what they most wanted, not that they could earn enough points to buy like crazy, as Olympe points out. Take the cost of six months, say someone was really determined so they saved for a year, just to be sure they win the dragon they are after. In the meantime they haven't bid on anything, and once they have won they spend at least another six months saving points before they can afford to even think of bidding for that item again Unlike ebay there aren't a limited number available, the same dragons would be up for auction repeatedly. Multiple quantities of each type each bidding session? Closed bids to prevent sniping? Some sort of tie breaker in the event of multiple winning bids, maybe the player who places the high bid first? I do NOT like the idea of losing points just for bidding either, I have never heard of a real life auction doing that and I do think the idea is off putting. I'm also still concerned at not having CB hybrids available at all any more. That seems like replacing one problem of exclusiveness and rarity with another. I understand not wanting them to be common, but they are already in the community and I fear this could really drive up the price for offspring. I still don't like having to bid on something only to find out I "lost". It's still a game of chance. :/ And high prizes would work just as well with a store because people still couldn't buy endless shinies - even if the store had an unlimited supply. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I am fine with having to work for a year for a CB Prize, or even three years for a CB Hybrid. I don't particularly care one way or the other if in-cave species are made available to "purchase" or "adopt" or whatever. I just don't want to have to fight other people to get it - I want to be able to work for it and be rewarded for my efforts. I am not patient enough for 3yrs but I do agree that I'd rather be rewarded for working toward earning something, than bidding and competing in auctions and raffles. And I'd be happy with CB Hybrids that cost as much as Prizes. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) As Thuban already said somewere we currently have two way to earn a dragon: 1) Spend a lot of time and efforts in cave hunting and be rewarded for our skills. (competing with others) 2) Hoping for a dumb luck once a year with the raffle, competing with other players (Easy way to give something special for newbies and bad computer' owners) We're currently asking for a 3rd new way to earn a dragon where you can actually be rewarded for your long presence and time dedication to DC. We can't give to every 3 years old account a CB Prize because not every person with an old account has been truly active, nor we can reward those with a lot of dragons (1500+) because many scroll goals doesn't require large amount of dragons. The easiest way to introduce a reward for your dedication is something you could do every day like a minigame where you collect mana, and be able to spend that mana as you prefer. No user interaction and competition doesn't mean "earning rares out of the blue", its just a new way to reward loyalty toward the game itself and it requires a lot of efforts, too! If we follow the numbers proposed in this suggestion I would be able to earn only 2 prizes CB per year and I couldn't spending my points for anything else. I should make a choice and it won't be the same one of every other user. I think there are many of us who desire an Old CB holiday or a CB Hybrid/Alts. I'm sorry TJ but if CB Hybrid/Alts are breeds that were never intended to be CB you shouldn't have never used them as HM. They're part of the game now and I think it would be really bad if they suddenly should "not exists". If they wouldn't ever exist in cave probably we wouldn't be so disappointed to see them unavailable but since there are some of them as CBs they have "loose" the no-CB-ever status. Keeping them at a really big price I think it will prevent people to hoarding them. Even because of background reasons they should exists as CBs in some way Edited January 24, 2015 by Naruhina_94 Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 The easiest way to introduce a reward for your dedication is something you could do every day like a minigame where you collect mana, and be able to spend that mana as you prefer. No user interaction and competition doesn't mean "earning rares out of the blue", its just a new way to reward loyalty toward the game itself and it requires a lot of efforts, too! The easiest way to reward for dedication is to get points for - playing the game we already play - catching, breeding, raising. And it isn't SUPPOSED to be a way to get loads and loads of extra stuff, so - fair enough, "buying" two eggs in a year - that's OK by me. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 Two rare eggs. I don't think that CB stripes or trios would need to cost quite as much. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 As a long term player (since 2008) who has been active the entire time and has only 3 CB metals and no prize--- I fully support some way to be able to acquire all the dragons. I don't mind a long wait. I think limits of 2-3 per prize just like with holidays or GoN would be great. Right now if you don't have a prize or crazy internet speed the top tier of trading is mostly closed. I feel like this would help the system immensely. 2 CB golds a year or less is still about 600% more than I have any hope of catching now! Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 The easiest way to reward for dedication is to get points for - playing the game we already play - catching, breeding, raising. And it isn't SUPPOSED to be a way to get loads and loads of extra stuff, so - fair enough, "buying" two eggs in a year - that's OK by me. Yes, it may be easiest, but honestly I don't need a reward for something I would do anyway... If I should get a CB prize outside the raffle I would like to put more effort on it and not just raising normal dragons. I'm ok with only 2 per year, too. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 Yes, it may be easiest, but honestly I don't need a reward for something I would do anyway... If I should get a CB prize outside the raffle I would like to put more effort on it and not just raising normal dragons. I'm ok with only 2 per year, too. The thing is if something is implemented that veers you away from regular cave activity then there will be no point in playing DC. If you're just in it for the rares and will only concetrate on a game that is not DC itself then whats the point. Allowing people to get rewarded for tasks they do normally in DC encourages activity on the site. It will encourage new players to catch more commons and raise more dragons if they want certain amounts of points or encourage people to click and view eggs not just for the encyclopedia but for some sort of point gain that can eventually lead them to access rare dragons. Things like this will encourage gameplay and require no extra strain on players to have to stop their normal DC routine to play some game to earn points when they could be clicking, hunting trading, etc. I would prefer that if something to gain points to eventually earn rares is implemented, then it be implemented in a way that our usual DC activities award us these points. Personally, yes playing Mana Alchemy was fun for the event but as someone mentioned, playing the same game every day for an entry tests your patience. I got bored of it so fast, it felt like a bloody chore just to get that damn entry, I ended up missing on about 3-4 entries (Given for two of those entry days I was recovering from nearly going into Hypothermia). It will eventually become a chore for many people to have to go play some game or assortment of games, every day, maybe 1-3 times a day to meet their daily cap to get a bloody dragon. On the other hand, if they go about their normal DC activities (Hatching, clicking, AP/Cave hunting, etc) they will be unwittingly gaining points for doing what they do every day. Hell if I could get a paycheck for simply waking up and going about my daily activities I would be thrilled as opposed to having to get up, go to a place I'm not entirely fond with, deal with pople I dont entirely like, to earn a crap pay. So yus. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 I abhore auctions. Those would also be very different from a store (whose owner might be "insulted" by a too low offer or not care at all). Share this post Link to post
Posted January 24, 2015 The thing is if something is implemented that veers you away from regular cave activity then there will be no point in playing DC. If you're just in it for the rares and will only concetrate on a game that is not DC itself then whats the point. Allowing people to get rewarded for tasks they do normally in DC encourages activity on the site. It will encourage new players to catch more commons and raise more dragons if they want certain amounts of points or encourage people to click and view eggs not just for the encyclopedia but for some sort of point gain that can eventually lead them to access rare dragons. Things like this will encourage gameplay and require no extra strain on players to have to stop their normal DC routine to play some game to earn points when they could be clicking, hunting trading, etc. I would prefer that if something to gain points to eventually earn rares is implemented, then it be implemented in a way that our usual DC activities award us these points. Personally, yes playing Mana Alchemy was fun for the event but as someone mentioned, playing the same game every day for an entry tests your patience. I got bored of it so fast, it felt like a bloody chore just to get that damn entry, I ended up missing on about 3-4 entries (Given for two of those entry days I was recovering from nearly going into Hypothermia). It will eventually become a chore for many people to have to go play some game or assortment of games, every day, maybe 1-3 times a day to meet their daily cap to get a bloody dragon. On the other hand, if they go about their normal DC activities (Hatching, clicking, AP/Cave hunting, etc) they will be unwittingly gaining points for doing what they do every day. Hell if I could get a paycheck for simply waking up and going about my daily activities I would be thrilled as opposed to having to get up, go to a place I'm not entirely fond with, deal with pople I dont entirely like, to earn a crap pay. So yus. While I do understand your point and analogy, I think you should rework your analogy. First of all DC is a game, if you like it you keep playing, if not you quit, with no consequences; a job is not, also you dont earn a "crap pay", you are supposed to earn what you work for (of course, this is very relative, since there are places where you can easily be payed more doing less of the same job, though there are jobs that exploit their employees). Anyway I am with you, we should get points for doing things in DC; but also for playing a game. Both can be worked together (at least I think so), if we have a daily cap, like 75 to 100 points per day, you can get points through normal playing but also from mini-games and you wont get more than 75 or 100 points. Share this post Link to post
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