Trader's Canyon

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I have nothing against the remote biome idea, but it does NOT need to be combined with this idea. When/If a new biome is released with a brand new bunch of previously unreleased dragons, that is a whole new topic.

 

The 'store' idea is strictly a new way to collect CB Prizes, old CB Holidays and those dragons that are considered Honorable Mentions.

 

Thuban said to hash out THIS idea... not turn it into a totally different idea.

[Lurhstaap]

As in to get a particular dragon you need x number of fire mana and x number of water and x number of neutral mana in some specified combination? Different dragons would have different combinations?

Because I totally don't want that.

How would that work for someone like my daughter who basically only collects two of each new release and usually only breeds in order to AP holiday eggs, how would she be able to collect enough of the different kinds of mana? Because random generation of mana is probably not always going to be that random, you're bringing in an element of luck again. I'd rather stick with a set price, this is worth 1200 points of any type, not you need to have 300 of this and 400 of that, etc.

Easily - by clicking dragons owned by others. In my scenario you could earn mana by clicking growing things on other scrolls. Not only would this help people such as your daughter earn the types of mana they need but it would provide an incentive for people to click each other's growing things, which could possibly reduce dependence on outside sites to raise dragons, thus closing what I have always considered a serious flaw in the concept of click games in general and particularly those like DC, which are likely to attract people who are not particularly active on other forums or sites, thus REQUIRING the existence of dedicated fan hatcheries for the game to work.

 

Additionally, she could play Mana Alchemy or another minigame to get more mana. Although gains would be random it would still give a good chance of getting all types over time. Finally, I support trading being available to some degree in addition so that someone like your daughter could trade what she has a lot of for something she needs. The mana requirements for the rarer/more popular breeds would have be assigned with careful thought to ensure no one type of mana became the most valuable, but with 13 varieties in the existing mana system it could easily be done.

 

Also, the different types of mana would generally come from more than one kind of dragon. For example, Red dragons would give Fire, but they wouldn't be the ONLY source of Fire - Magmas would certainly be as well, possibly also Embers. Anything that's associated with the Fire element could give Fire mana. So even someone who only collects two of each breed would still have plenty of Fire mana giving dragons (for example). Plus, if mana is given for hatching eggs, she could go out of her way to catch and breed, say, red dragons, hatch them for a bit of Fire mana, then give away or abandon the hatchling before it grew up to keep from having an extra red on her scroll. Yes, that would be tedious, but it would be yet another option.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[Lurhstaap]

I have nothing against the remote biome idea, but it does NOT need to be combined with this idea. When/If a new biome is released with a brand new bunch of previously unreleased dragons, that is a whole new topic.

 

The 'store' idea is strictly a new way to collect CB Prizes, old CB Holidays and those dragons that are considered Honorable Mentions.

 

Thuban said to hash out THIS idea... not turn it into a totally different idea.

Well no not necessarily. It has been agreed that there will be no "store" exclusive breeds and that therefore unreleased breeds won't be involved unless they get released into the cave as a whole, but I personally have been advocating for the inclusion of, at least, normal commons and uncommons as well as those you mentioned. I'm pretty sure I saw at least a few other people agree with that idea but I might be indulging in wishful thinking. Anyhow, I specifically asked Thuban if she wanted me to move my variant of this suggestion to its own thread because of that as well as other differences from hers, but she said to hash it out here. So IMO if my variations aren't too great as to require a new thread then neither is the 'remote biome' blend-in. (Then again that is something of a more radical change. Still it's up to Thuban in the end I think.)

[Walron]

Well no not necessarily. It has been agreed that there will be no "store" exclusive breeds and that therefore unreleased breeds won't be involved unless they get released into the cave as a whole, but I personally have been advocating for the inclusion of, at least, normal commons and uncommons as well as those you mentioned. I'm pretty sure I saw at least a few other people agree with that idea but I might be indulging in wishful thinking. Anyhow, I specifically asked Thuban if she wanted me to move my variant of this suggestion to its own thread because of that as well as other differences from hers, but she said to hash it out here. So IMO if my variations aren't too great as to require a new thread then neither is the 'remote biome' blend-in. (Then again that is something of a more radical change. Still it's up to Thuban in the end I think.)

I'd love being able to buy commons. I used to be able to find a couple seawyrm pygmies a day (kinda hoarded 'em ) but since I got back (middle of September) I haven't seen a single one in cave I would most likely just use the mana to collect pygmys if they were in store lol

[amthystfire]

I'm personally up for any of it (specifically: remote biomes, buy from 'store,' mini games, 'passive' mana gain, specific mana types and general mana cost) and I think all of it is doable within the game world. ( in regards to mana, a specific cost or a perhaps 20% higher cost with no specific types. I.e. 200 fire and 300 neutral to summon a red, or 600 mana of any type)

 

On the other hand, this will take TJ away from other site updates, so while it could be worked in, it may be quite some time before we see all or even any of this. (and maybe this will convince TJ to hire a few code monkeys? They work for bananas, doncha know?)

 

Not having store exclusive dragons is a no brainer--we don't want people feeling like we are thrusting this upon them. Beyond that, Thuban's idea is only raffle-available dragons, at really high prices. Others are more permissive--most if not all dragons at varying prices.

 

Mana trading is hotly contested, but really, if people are decently smart about it, they get what they want. That red, for example. I have 100 fire, 150 water, and 300 neutral. Now, I could go poke 100 fire dragons, or offer a trade of the 150 water for the 100 fire I need. Which is better? Depends. Do I need water for later? Do I have a couple of hours to find 100 dragons to give me fire mana? Do I have the patience to wait, or do I need to be at work in half an hour? I could also in this senario, go find 50 of any type to click and use all my mana, myself. But if we can offer an array of choices, the player could then decide how they want to play, rather than being told that they have to play this way because we said so, ARRGGGHHHHH.

Edited January 18, 2015 by amthystfire

[Lurhstaap]

I'm personally up for any of it (specifically: remote biomes, buy from 'store,' mini games, 'passive' mana gain, specific mana types and general mana cost) and I think all of it is doable within the game world. ( in regards to mana, a specific cost or a perhaps 20% higher cost with no specific types. I.e. 200 fire and 300 neutral to summon a red, or 600 mana of any type)

 

On the other hand, this will take TJ away from other site updates, so while it could be worked in, it may be quite some time before we see all or even any of this. (and maybe this will convince TJ to hire a few code monkeys? They work for bananas, doncha know?)

 

Not having store exclusive dragons is a no brainer--we don't want people feeling like we are thrusting this upon them. Beyond that, Thuban's idea is only raffle-available dragons, at really high prices. Others are more permissive--most if not all dragons at varying prices.

 

Mana trading is hotly contested, but really, if people are decently smart about it, they get what they want. That red, for example. I have 100 fire, 150 water, and 300 neutral. Now, I could go poke 100 fire dragons, or offer a trade of the 150 water for the 100 fire I need. Which is better? Depends. Do I need water for later? Do I have a couple of hours to find 100 dragons to give me fire mana? Do I have the patience to wait, or do I need to be at work in half an hour? I could also in this senario, go find 50 of any type to click and use all my mana, myself. But if we can offer an array of choices, the player could then decide how they want to play, rather than being told that they have to play this way because we said so, ARRGGGHHHHH.

Yes, exactly. I am generally in favor of offering as many ways to use the feature as reasonably possible for that very reason. Allowing commons and uncommons is part of that too actually. It gives people another choice. For example even before they had a BSA reds were one of my favorite breeds - not just among nonrares, period. So if they were included in this feature, when I felt like getting more reds, I'd have the choice to try to catch a CB, try to summon a CB, or breed a new one. Right now I can only go cave-hunting or breed. Not that those options are inadequate per se, but giving an additional option enriches gameplay. It also helps to make all of the options feel unforced if there are alternatives, which IMO fits in perfectly with DC's general history of being a low-pressure, not-just-one-way-to-play game. This would if done properly add a new way to play the game without forcing people who prefer their current ways to participate if they don't want to.

 

As far as it taking TJ's attention away from other things - no, not really. I hate to bring this up so much, but when I was head admin of a similar site, that's not really how it worked with player suggestions for me. They would get added to a to-do list if I thought they should happen and sometimes they'd be higher priority than some of my existing plans, but things didn't interfere with each other's implementation usually. It was just a matter of priorities. If TJ wants this to happen he will get it done at whatever rate he deems appropriate; if he thinks other stuff is more important this will be put aside until it is the highest-priority task remaining on his list, that's all.

 

So yes we could be waiting some time. But IMO it's worth it!

[amthystfire]

Yes, exactly. I am generally in favor of offering as many ways to use the feature as reasonably possible for that very reason. Allowing commons and uncommons is part of that too actually. It gives people another choice. For example even before they had a BSA reds were one of my favorite breeds - not just among nonrares, period. So if they were included in this feature, when I felt like getting more reds, I'd have the choice to try to catch a CB, try to summon a CB, or breed a new one. Right now I can only go cave-hunting or breed. Not that those options are inadequate per se, but giving an additional option enriches gameplay. It also helps to make all of the options feel unforced if there are alternatives, which IMO fits in perfectly with DC's general history of being a low-pressure, not-just-one-way-to-play game. This would if done properly add a new way to play the game without forcing people who prefer their current ways to participate if they don't want to.

 

As far as it taking TJ's attention away from other things - no, not really. I hate to bring this up so much, but when I was head admin of a similar site, that's not really how it worked with player suggestions for me. They would get added to a to-do list if I thought they should happen and sometimes they'd be higher priority than some of my existing plans, but things didn't interfere with each other's implementation usually. It was just a matter of priorities. If TJ wants this to happen he will get it done at whatever rate he deems appropriate; if he thinks other stuff is more important this will be put aside until it is the highest-priority task remaining on his list, that's all.

 

So yes we could be waiting some time. But IMO it's worth it!

Understandable. It's all relative. I hope we get this in some form. What are the kinks we have left?

 

Edit upon review: looks like we were still debating what dragons To include.

 

 

Only prizes, only things you could get from a raffle, only special dragons not normally available in cave, all dragons

 

 

What to call the system we are using.

 

 

mana summons?

 

 

points, gold, coins, mana

 

 

Tradability?

 

fully tradable, limited tradability(limit per day), 1 to 1 tradability, no tradability

 

Where the eggs come from and designation of the eggs (as opposed to 'stolen on')

 

Cave, most appropriate biome, random biome, special designation with its own new rules.

Edited January 18, 2015 by amthystfire

[olympe]

Understandable. It's all relative. I hope we get this in some form. What are the kinks we have left?

 

Edit upon review: looks like we were still debating what dragons To include.

 

 

Only prizes, only things you could get from a raffle, only special dragons not normally available in cave, all dragonspermanent access to additional biomes with breeds exclusive to that biome

 

 

What to call the system we are using.

 

 

mana summons?

 

 

points, gold, coins, mana

 

 

Tradability?

 

fully tradable, limited tradability(limit per day), 1 to 1 tradability, no tradability

 

Where the eggs come from and designation of the eggs (as opposed to 'stolen on')

 

Cave, most appropriate biome, random biome, special designation with its own new rules.

Green by me.

 

My opinion on what to include:

1. Prize dragons: At a high enough cost, I think it would be feasible. It's not a necessity, but something I'd really like to see.
2. HM style dragons (CB hybrids, CB alts, CB colored stripes...): Definitely yes. If neither a nor b get implemented, the "store" doesn't have any reason to exist at all.
3. Old holiday dragons during the respective breeding season: I'd really like that - but within reason. Scroll limits need to apply IMHO. I also think that you shouldn't be able to buy more than 4 of any given Halloween dragon, even though they don't usually have any scroll limits. It might be a "shop limit".
4. CB commons: Why not? It wouldn't hurt anyone, it wouldn't impact anyone's game play as we should be glad for any common getting adopted - and there might even be people who'd use it.
5. CB uncommons/rares: If they're priced right, it should work just fine. Besides, not everyone would want or need to save up for one of the really expensive eggs. And it might help out people without good connections - internet-wise and people-wise. (If, with actually playing regularly and all that, you could afford 1 gold a year or maybe two - would that break the game? Personally, I doubt it.)
6. GoN: I'm on the fence about these. From what little I know about them, this doesn't seem to work well with their lore. Unless the "buying" is actually something akin to summoning.
7. Map (=permanent access) to a new biome: This might be a nice way to add multiple new breeds. Of course, these maps shouldn't be too expensive. Maybe just so that you need to play regularly (dedicatedly) for 2-4 weeks? Of course, it might just be easier to implement new extra biomes with no strings attached. I'd still like to see this.

What to call the system we're using: Frankly, I don't care much. Sure, calling the "currency" mana would add a nice bit of lore to the feature and might pacify some people - but in the end, the name doesn't matter nearly as much to me as the feature itself. I'm slightly in favor of mana, though.

 

Tradeability of "points" (for lack of a better term ATM): No. This would turn the "points" into a real currency, which would most likely have a major impact on all kinds of user interaction.

Tradeabiltiy of "store dragons": Again, no. Each and every dragon you got from the "store" should be locked to your scroll. No exceptions.

 

Biome designation: Just like GoN: Egg stolen on ... / Location: Cave.

Edited January 18, 2015 by olympe

[amthystfire]

My listings didn't get as pretty as yours, but I'm on my iPad and it was like midnight here when I posted that. Meh. Your list looks good, and explanations are well thought out...

 

Personally, I found the -but someone might buy them- reasoning (oversimplification, I know) to be counter-intuitive. Yes, someone might buy something that's sitting in the store. Yes, it might happen enough to tweak the ratios a bit (or even a lot) making people seek alternate ways to grab the dragons they want. But we have survived that before. Heck, I still grab green glowy eggs up without even thinking about them.

 

I think most people are about where you are on what we call this beast (if anyone has another idea, please put it out there).

 

As far as tradability making the currency a currency, yes, it would. I think limiting it would cut down on those concerns to a great extent (if you could only trade 200 mana a day, the guy offering 10 to 1 on it is not going to be very appealing), and 1 to 1 trading would mean you could trade type for type and that is it.

[Thuban]

Um.. if it helps any, I call it the Trading post when I discuss it with my non-dc playing partners in crime...

 

Since you are collecting specific things to use/trade towards other goods...

 

I just felt that giving it a name that was more than the basic description sort of took away from my original goal of just coming up with basic framework goodness. That and.. its not quite a trade post after glancing through some of the developments.

 

 

If this ends up being mage-skill based, then by all means.. give it a "college" type name. If you go the route of needing to buy maps, then call it the Adventurer's Guild or something. It may actually help if you guys come up with witty pet names for the different ideas floating around so that people weighing in on different things can tag their posts as

"Re: Mage guild idea" "RE: Adventure/map idea:"

when responding to help keep things from getting mixed up.

 

Once you guys work out your things, just poke me (pm is best since im not following this page by page quite like I was). Having something to link to that has at least the very basic breakdowns of the specirfic ideas being discussed that I can link to will help keep newcomers more up to date on whats happening in here.

[Sany]

What about getting an egg with a specific code? I know there's people who'd love a code with a specific species.

[Thuban]

What about getting an egg with a specific code? I know there's people who'd love a code with a specific species.

Not going to happen with my original idea, sorry. I really dont see the option working with OTHER options being pitched either.. That needs to stay a raffle specific thing in my opinion.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, picking a code needs to be raffle-exclusive as far as I'm concerned, and doubly so if the Prizes are available in any manner.

[Oddsoxdi]

Has anyone heard anything from TJ about this idea? It really means nothing if at the end of a 500 page thread the Boss comes in and says, "No store at all!"

[LibbyLishly]

Has anyone heard anything from TJ about this idea? It really means nothing if at the end of a 500 page thread the Boss comes in and says, "No store at all!"

I know this isn't particularly informative, but I do know that Thuban mentioned that she's engaged in a PM conversation with TJ over this matter but wasn't posting it because she hadn't requested permission to share what he had to say.

[Thuban]

No, I had said there was a pm about alts i had asked about. Not this suggestion.

 

I'm not even going to pretend to know what he thinks of this suggestion, or any other suggestion. The suggestion is purely about getting the eggs out to people who want them, without having to rely on the raffle.

 

Its rare that he really weighs in on things as far as I know. If he likes something, it happens one day, if not, it doesnt. If its flat out not possible, im sure the thread gets closed.

[Lurhstaap]

No, I had said there was a pm about alts i had asked about.  Not this suggestion.

 

I'm not even going to pretend to know what he thinks of this suggestion, or any other suggestion. The suggestion is purely about getting the eggs out to people who want them, without having to rely on the raffle.

 

Its rare that he really weighs in on things as far as I know. If he likes something, it happens one day, if not, it doesnt. If its flat out not possible, im sure the thread gets closed.

Well, FWIW, he hasn't offered a direct opinion on the thread, but he HAS posted in it, and when he did it was to reply to someone who was criticizing the idea. That may only mean he disliked that person's approach, but it does suggest he is at least not 100% opposed to the ideas in this thread; if he were he probably would have said so and locked it. My impression is that things that really really will never happen get pointed out as such. That doesn't mean this has a good chance of happening or anything, just that the Bossman has already come through and didn't shut us down. So our chances would -seem- to be greater than zero.

 

I will say that when I was running a site, I always made a point of letting people know if their suggestions were 100% Not Gonna Happen. I even had a sticky thread in the site's suggestion forum listing things I had already given a solid yes or no to, so that the same suggestions didn't keep coming up. Obviously TJ doesn't do that, but I suspect, like I said, that if he were absolutely 100% opposed to the idea that he would have said so when he posted in the thread, even if he didn't lock it.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[Lurhstaap]

Not going to happen with my original idea, sorry. I really dont see the option working with OTHER options being pitched either.. That needs to stay a raffle specific thing in my opinion.

I also agree with this FWIW. Custom codes should remain a special component of the raffle. If only because, if any form of this suggestion were implemented, that would be one of the last things making raffle prizes really nice, other than not having to pay for them or unlock them to get them (if unlocking is part of the final feature, which I think it ought to be as I've said before.)

 

On the other hand I saw this very issue come up on another, unrelated website. They're having a writing contest with prizes and a player complained that a lot of the prizes in the contest could be bought from the people making them in the site's Talents (art et cetera) forum. The administration replied that, yes, that was true - but people in the contest got them for free, while others had to pay for them, and they didn't understand why that should make anyone sad. The same argument could apply here just as well. But FWIW I still don't support custom codes in the summon/store system.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[LibbyLishly]

No, I had said there was a pm about alts i had asked about. Not this suggestion.

 

I'm not even going to pretend to know what he thinks of this suggestion, or any other suggestion. The suggestion is purely about getting the eggs out to people who want them, without having to rely on the raffle.

 

Its rare that he really weighs in on things as far as I know. If he likes something, it happens one day, if not, it doesnt. If its flat out not possible, im sure the thread gets closed.

Sorry, my bad. I totally misremembered your post.

[Lurhstaap]

FWIW I have what seems to be confirmation that 100% not-gonna-happen ideas get locked very quicky. Someone suggested a separate AP for hatchlings and adults (apparently not realizing that adults can't be abandoned) and the thread got locked after only one reply saying that the new feature would be pointless because adults can't be abandoned and the reason you almost never see hatchies in AP is because they are very rarely abandoned compared to eggs. So there'd be no point to having a separate hatchling-only AP. IMO I find that at least slightly debatable (not that I think it's a good feature idea) but my point is that thread is already locked. So I think given that, it's fair to interpret any suggestion thread not locked as at least being under consideration to some small degree.

[AzureWyrmsblood]

Not really a fan of mana alchemy being used as a method to obtain currency, it's a *bit* monotonous and boring in my eyes (Christmas tested my patience, I gave up on it after a while, got my lil' sis' to play it for me ).

 

As far as CB prizes go, being able to receive them outside of the raffle is a big no-no in my eyes (And I dont even own one):

1. They wouldn't really be 'raffle prizes', more of 'you spent your time playing a mini-game!' and would really negate the idea of a special dragon that you have a chance at receiving once a year. (I know that people have been on the site for years and have received nothing in the raffle, but everyone has an equal opportunity.)

2. Completely negates the Christmas raffles in future and previously for most people. Yes, some people do want eggs from specific lineages but many aren't bothered by the collection of lineages. Especially with 600(?) more prizes bashing around.

^Also with the retraction of HM's, allowing 'free' prize dragons brings little interest in January as there isn't a release due to the raffle.

3. Would most-likely muck up the prize breeding ratios causing many more to fail (Especially with commons...) which is already a problem with many people's prizes.

 

Although, the idea of being able to get holidays that you can no-longer receive is very appealing as the CB's are not available to anyone who joined after/or missed the previous holidays. And chances at CB alts could be used to create new and interesting lineages but they ARE breedable-only for a reason. CB rares and unbreedables would be nice for people who don't have time and/or the internet/reaction speed to catch them. Would really muck the ratios though...

 

Other notes;

~Trade value for will severely decrease for all receivable dragons.(Maybe except CB alts depending on the chance of getting one) (For those that care about it)[if trade-able]

^If non trade-able then 2gs will likely be affected.

 

~Ratios will most likely be affected, possibly making it the only way to get CB rares and unbreedables for most.

^If store-bought dragons do not affect ratios, then there will be a huge influx of rares. (Not necessarily a bad thing for lineages but will likely decrease the value of rares and unbreedables.)

 

~Trade-able or not, the trading community will be affected. (Perhaps not necessarily in a negative way)

 

~The mechanics of the game will be changed a fair bit, especially for people who have played for a longer period of time: Some people (Like myself) already have a lot of commons/uncommons but have had little luck at catching rares so they will focus on the minigame as it is the 'only' way they can get them.

 

~The prospect of buying dragons is pretty much the opposite of what we have now.

 

Yeah, not a huge fan of this suggestion.

-Although I do think the shop could be used to allow people a equal chance of receiving dragons that they do not have a chance at in-cave, it defeats the point of using the in-game caves really.

Edited January 21, 2015 by FearoTheDragon

[Lurhstaap]

Fearo did you happen to read any of the rest of the thread? There were a lot of other variants on the suggestion. Also I have to ask why it would defeat the point of the cave? Even if the source of currency is the game and not in-game actions (my personal preference), even if there was no unlock requirements of any sort (which again I strongly support) and even if there's no cap on mana income (which there almost certainly would be), people would still have to spend the time grinding to get the mana to buy stuff. People like you who dislike grinding would almost certainly prefer to cave-hunt instead. So IMO you're sort of contradicting yourself, no offense meant.

 

Also I would like to point out that everyone does NOT have an equal opportunity at the raffle. I've been playing since late 08/early 09 and never even got to ENTER until this year, much less win anything (which I didn't). Because my IRL life usually didn't allow me to get on DC during holidays. So, no, it is NOT equal-opportunity whatsoever. If tickets were issued to every account that was active within a reasonable amount of time, THEN it would be pretty much equal-opportunity. But the fact that players have to be there to get the tickets makes it very much not EO. Also, this year, it was possible for some players to get more tickets than others, meaning those players had a better chance than others. So your logic is flawed.

 

Besides, the entire point of the suggestion is that having breeds that can only be gotten through dumb luck once a year is a fundamentally bad idea for the game and should be changed. You may or may not agree with that point, but your post didn't seem to acknowledge that idea at all.

 

Not that you have to support the suggestion, but that's my reaction to your post, FWIW. Pretty much every objection you raised has already been hard-countered in the thread by multiple reasonable options. I wish I could edit the first post for Thuby. This thread is getting to be a monster.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[Ruby Eyes]

~Ratios will most likely be affected, possibly making it the only way to get CB rares and unbreedables for most.

^If store-bought dragons do not affect ratios, then there will be a huge influx of rares. (Not necessarily a bad thing for lineages but will likely decrease the value of rares and unbreedables.)

As far as I understood, anything catchable in the cave (e.g. Golds, Dinos) would *not* be available in this "store" thing. They would still only be available by hunting the cave.

[Fuzzbucket]

As far as I understood, anything catchable in the cave (e.g. Golds, Dinos) would *not* be available in this "store" thing. They would still only be available by hunting the cave.

Exactly so. (Unless I got it wrong too ? )

[Obscure_Trash]

As far as I understood, anything catchable in the cave (e.g. Golds, Dinos) would *not* be available in this "store" thing. They would still only be available by hunting the cave.

If any kind of "store" or 'store' or store is added, I have hesitantly supported the ideas on it because there are users out there who've been playing for years and haven't caught their own cb shiny. I think strict limits are needed, but I wanted this as something to help users with bad internet, disabilities, etc., NOT just as a way to get prizes distributed to users (even though I seriously need a way to get HMs around now). =U

If it's just prizes, I don't support.