ANSWERED:Time-based egg slot

[_Sin_]

Peeps, they aren't demands, they are discussions. And TJ didn't post this to hear "yes yes yes!", he posted this to hear discussion of it and the pros and cons as other people view it. All this sucking up I personally find in really bad taste.

 

Having said that, an "activity checker" could check for positive actions, not negative ones. So you'd get it for time played. It wouldn't matter how inactive you'd been. If you were active for at least 4 years worth of time, you'd get the 4 slots. If you were active for 1 year before going inactive? You'd get 1 slot. If you were active for 2 months, then went on hiatus? You'd have to be active again for at least 8 months before getting the extra slot.

 

Basically:

You log in once a month every month for a year, you get +1 slots permanently.

You then go on hiatus for 3 years.

You come back, and play for another year, and at the end of that year you get another +1 (putting you at +2, since you've actually played for 2 years even though your account is 5 years old).

And so on.

 

As for the talk of "coding difficulty", TJ has said in the past that he prefers us to leave that up to him to determine. For myself, I can think of a couple of easy ways to implement the above scenario. I'm sure that TJ, as a programmer (I'm just a dabbler), can think of dozens of more ways to do it.

 

As for why to do it?

Because giving people +4 slots for abandoning the game then rediscovering it sits ill with me. The rest of us actually were here and played. Treating someone who wasn't here at all to the same *time based* benefit just feels wrong.

 

Or look at it this way:

Someone who's logged in every month that they've been here, call it 2 years, has +2 slots.

But someone who made an account 4 years ago and didn't log in for 3.5 yrs straight gets +4 slots.

How is that fair to the person who's been playing those two years?

 

If we were talking about *just* +1 slot, I wouldn't care. But we're not... We're talking about *giving away* Gold Trophy slots, not to people who've been playing for 4 years... but to those who haven't been active for 4 years.

 

Either way it doesn't effect me. I'm so far above both the time limit and the Gold Trophy status that if an extra slot comes out, I'll be getting it by virtue of just how very active I've been.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Riiiight. And now I would like to see you writing the algorithm for those requirements.

[edwardelricfreak]

Riiiight. And now I would like to see you writing the algorithm for those requirements.

Again, TJ has said in the past to not worry about coding. Let TJ worry about that. Considering there was already coding to find inactivity for wiping names, I'm sure it shouldn't be *that* hard for the model C4 suggested, which sounds reasonable and simple, with enough of a restriction to try to promote loyalty without TOO much punishment for those who go inactive

[cyradis4]

Riiiight. And now I would like to see you writing the algorithm for those requirements.

Actually, I have written time based algorithms very similar to this for work, and they can be done quite simply depending on how the database is setup. If something is active so long, then do this. If its not on, check this. There's more to it than that, but depending on how TJ saves the log-in data, it could be as simple as if / then statements, or simple loops or counters. Or he could use more complex algorithms. I also happen to know that TJ has in the past tracked activity: he used to wipe scroll names based on it.

 

And that's completely ignoring the (critical) point I made:

TJ told us to leave the programming to him.

 

So leaving the programming in his capable hands, I still think if giving up to 4 egg slots, then some sort of (simple) log-in checker needs to be included. If only giving 1 time based slot, I think a log-in checker would be over-kill for just 1.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited September 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[_Sin_]

ROFL. Understood. There are a few people that feel so special. And they feel that others aren't special enough so they shouldn't get the same gifts. TJ will be the one deciding on that if he doesn't get so tired of the demands that he just doesn't implement. Welcome to your speshfulness.

[cyradis4]

ROFL. Understood. There are a few people that feel so special. And they feel that others aren't special enough so they shouldn't get the same gifts. TJ will be the one deciding on that if he doesn't get so tired of the demands that he just doesn't implement. Welcome to your speshfulness.

If I actually felt "special" I would take offense at your comment. As I don't, I'm sitting here laughing. You challenged my credentials on programming: I gave them. Its not my fault you didn't like my rebuttal.

 

As I said on the other page, I've got no horse in this race, I'll get the slot regardless if its implemented. However, as a player of this game, I can and WILL express my opinion when its asked for, which is what TJ did when he posted this in Suggestions.

 

Which is why I still think that giving out 4 extra slots to people who played for a week 4 years ago (or 7 years ago!) then went inactive until last week really just doesn't feel right.

 

Will I quite if it happens? Nope. Will it effect me? Nope. Do I think there's a better, more fair way to implement it? Yep, and I outlined it already.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[_Sin_]

If I actually felt "special" I would take offense at your comment. As I don't, I'm sitting here laughing. You challenged my credentials on programming: I gave them. Its not my fault you didn't like my rebuttal.

 

As I said on the other page, I've got no horse in this race, I'll get the slot regardless if its implemented. However, as a player of this game, I can and WILL express my opinion when its asked for, which is what TJ did when he posted this in Suggestions.

 

Which is why I still think that giving out 4 extra slots to people who played for a week 4 years ago (or 7 years ago!) then went inactive until last week really just doesn't feel right.

 

Will I quite if it happens? Nope. Will it effect me? Nope. Do I think there's a better, more fair way to implement it? Yep, and I outlined it already.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I don't want to make this personal but I didn't notice any programming credentials anywhere. To just state that they exist has a big zero value until they are demonstrated.

[zaverxi]

Uh wow that was really rude. But anyway.

 

I don't really like the idea of more than one extra slot for activity. I find it self-defeating, really. Because we'll get up to 4 new ones, and then people will still complain about not having enough. Cap it at 8, or at the very most, 10. Ten is a good number. 3 years of dedication to dragcave is good for a reward.

[cyradis4]

Uh wow that was really rude. But anyway.

 

I don't really like the idea of more than one extra slot for activity. I find it self-defeating, really. Because we'll get up to 4 new ones, and then people will still complain about not having enough. Cap it at 8, or at the very most, 10. Ten is a good number. 3 years of dedication to dragcave is good for a reward.

The max TJ is talking about is 8 eggs, and there were two different versions of his idea.

 

The first one was the ability to get up to 8 via time alone, basically:

You can get to those 8 slots in one of two ways:

- Gold trophy + 1 year = 8 slots

- No trophy + 4 years = 8 slots

So you max out at 8 slots regardless.

 

The other idea he posted was to have +1 slot for 1 year, max. So if you have no trophy but were here for a year, you could have 5 egg slots. If you have a Gold Trophy and have been here a year, you can have 8 slots.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited September 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[angelicdragonpuppy]

ROFL. Understood. There are a few people that feel so special. And they feel that others aren't special enough so they shouldn't get the same gifts. TJ will be the one deciding on that if he doesn't get so tired of the demands that he just doesn't implement. Welcome to your speshfulness.

If I felt 'special' I'd be demanding old dragons be discontinued and not be supporting allowing everyone to get old CB Holidays when the suggestion comes up. I'm not doing either of those things. I'm simply voicing an opinion that giving someone a reward for being around when they haven't been around feels a little silly. It's not a huge deal to me either way, just a minor preference, but the way you're reacting is pretty unfair to the opposing views. :/

 

TJ has ways to check activity that involve more than logging in; he used to wipe names after a certain amount of inactivity, after all. So I imagine the coding is already half there. And if it's not? No use bantering about it--TJ will tell us if it's too much and then we're back to square one. Throwing around possible alternatives is not instantly going to cause the suggestion to burst into flames.

 

(As a last note on this, Cyradis please know that I love you and support like, everything you say in every suggestion thread ever )

 

AHEM. On another note, as far as even moar slots goes--eight would be great, but 10 / 30 does have a 'completed' feeling to it that I like. It just seems a more balanced number to end on. Then again, eight is an exact double of the starting number, so ehhh. Either is good!

[Obscure_Trash]

Leave the programming to TJ. No name calling. People are perfectly welcome to disagree or agree with this suggestion and to discuss whatever restrictions they do/don't want. Period. This thread has gone quite a many pages with users mostly being perfectly respectful towards each other. Let's keep it like that.

[Gingehfish]

My favorite version of this suggestion is 'current number of eggslots + 1' for users that have been on more than a year. Adding more for additional years seems a little...silly to me, I guess. We would already have our additional eggslot, which is more than we had before. If someone who is inactive comes back after two years with no trophy BUT five eggslots...it's not that big of a deal, is it? If it we keep adding more eggslots for additional years, the problems you guys have been discussing become issues.

*shrugs* Just my two cents.

[Rosedamai]

My favorite version of this suggestion is 'current number of eggslots + 1' for users that have been on more than a year. Adding more for additional years seems a little...silly to me, I guess. We would already have our additional eggslot, which is more than we had before. If someone who is inactive comes back after two years with no trophy BUT five eggslots...it's not that big of a deal, is it? If it we keep adding more eggslots for additional years, the problems you guys have been discussing become issues.

*shrugs* Just my two cents.

This is how I feel tbh.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Well, again, what is the point of the suggestion? Obviously I can only speak for myself here, but I'm guessing the point is to 1) reward people for being active for a year and 2) give another way to get slots to players who are active, but simply choose not to collect in masses for whatever reason. If it was just to hand out an extra slot in general, adding a platinum trophy or even a larger starting level would suffice without the time limit, after all.

 

Given what I feel the motivation is, handing out slots to people who are like "oh I made this account a year ago and forgot about it and now I have perks, cool!" rather defeats the point of rewarding people for "being around for over a year."

 

I guess one could argue that such a perk might help convince those flighty players to stay around, but in the long run I doubt one more egg is going to make a difference. People who get bored with the game after less than a month of four (it only takes about a month and a half to get a silver trophy, I believe) are probably not that interested to begin with.

 

Again, and I can't stress this enough, I'm not going to be UPSET either way, I just find the idea of rewarding people with things when they haven't even been around weird enough to voice some thoughts on it.

[Fiona]

Peeps, they aren't demands, they are discussions.

Exactly! I wasn't thinking in terms of what TJ can code or not code, just trying to keep the whole thing simple because in my opinion simple is usually best. It's easier to explain why I have 8 eggs and you only have 4 or 5 if the way it's figured is simple.

 

That said, I also am unaffected by the activity check, no matter how it's calculated, unless logging in and (pretty much) never logging out were detrimental, which I can't see happening. So if an 8th egg slot is implemented for long term play I'm sure to have it.

 

It doesn't sit badly with me if the only check is registration date. I understand not all of you feel that way, and that's ok. You've explained your point well. Just because I don't really feel the same is not a problem. The point of the thread is to discuss how we feel about it, and what issues we see that might need to be addressed. Mostly that's what we've been doing. TJ will pick through what's said and decide for himself what to do with it.

 

For those talking about more than 8 slots, I know there was some talk about that earlier but I don't think that's actually on the table at the moment. I am not 100% sure, but based on what TJ did say I think that 8 is the cap. I'm good with 8. 8 is a very nice, even power of 2 number. It makes my heart happy.

 

 

Edit because leaving out words tends to make it not make as much sense. Or any sense.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Fiona BlueFire

[Tehya Faye]

I dunno about them not being interested. I have a bad habit of really getting into stuff, and then getting bored for a while. If there were activity requirements I would probably never get that extra slot because I just don't play this game actively for a full year. I take breaks - long ones at that. It's nice to come back and have a whole lot of new dragons to collect.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

How many egg slots someone else has does not affect me in any way.

 

How many scrolls someone else has does not affect me in any way.

 

How long or short a time someone else has been here does not affect me in any way.

 

I see absolutely NO reason to worry about any of those scenarios. All I personally have ever asked for is ONE more egg slot, so that I can catch an even number of dragons on a new release. Heck, I didn't even ask for extra hatchling slots, ONLY the egg slot.

 

I may be greedy about how many dragons I collect over all, but I am NOT trying to get them all at once. I never had to wait for a gold trophy because I had enough dragons for it on the day the trophies were added. So I've basically had the maximum number of slots available from day one. Getting another slot would just make it easier for me to get an even number of males and females when a new dragon is released. I've almost always managed it with just 7 slots, but 8 would make it easier. So there's no way I'm going to get greedy and ask for more than 1 more slot. No way, no how, do I want to screw up a chance for even numbers. And if hatchling slots don't come with the egg slot, I will NOT complain about that either.

[_Sin_]

What I find extremely funny on all this diatribe is that, if TJ decides to give us an additional slot, we will not really know if the "inactives" got it or not or even if there was an activity criteria.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Exactly my point. None of the arguments would affect me/you/anyone in any way, form or fashion. Because you/me/anyone has no idea what happens on anyone else's scroll.

[Lavinia]

How many egg slots someone else has does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

How many scrolls someone else has does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

How long or short a time someone else has been here does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

Totally agree with this. Folk need to quit being so persnickity. Only TJ can deal with multi-scrollers.. and you generally don't know who they are anyway. So why worry about them? Same goes for the inactive folk... you usually don't know who they are, and nothing they do or don't do can bother us anyway. So why worry about them?

 

First, why are we discussing the various edge cases? Because we are concerned with more than a limited, self-centered view of this game. Why worry about multi-scrollers? Because they negatively affect what CBs are available in the cave and therefore my gameplay experience and the gameplay experiences of all of the other honest players. Why worry about inactives? Because maybe they would be people who enjoy the game but were turned off by some aspect of it - if we can improve on those things that turn away newbies, the cave can have more active users! This affects me and other players as well - it broadens the community, potentially adds more variation to the pool of lineages (especially those found in the AP), makes the first couple of hours of a new release even harder to catch, and (most importantly!) gives us warm fuzzies inside about having helped some random stranger find something fun to do (and having something fun to do generally improves people's lives).

 

If TJ wants to be nice and GIVE us a bonus slot, QUIT ARGUING ABOUT IT, before he changes his mind.

 

Your statement is based on the incorrect belief that everyone wants a bonus slot. I do not want a bonus slot. (I have already gone into length about my reasons earlier in the thread, I needn't repeat myself here.) Many other people feel the same as I do and some of them* have expressed this in the thread - just not as loudly as some of you advocating for the bonus slot. This does not diminish the importance of their opinion, nor does posting loudly and repeatedly in this thread increase the importance of the wishes of some very active thread participants. We're all equal here.

 

*I actually reread the entire thread to count. I found 5 users who said they didn't really care/wouldn't be affected/could only accept the idea under very limited constraints/posted on both the positive and negative sides ( ) and 6 users who were actively against the idea. This is no pitifully small percentage of the player base which can be safely ignored. That said, the opinions of participants on this thread do not necessarily represent the opinions of the DC players in general, and we do not know what the result would be if all players were asked about the issue (pro, con, or neutral). We're polling the users who thought it was relevant enough to them to click on this thread OUT OF the users who ever visit the Suggestions area of the forum (very many don't) OUT OF the users who have self-selected to be active on the forum OUT OF the DC players. It is a widely skewed group, not a representative sample of players.

 

*and for those few naysayers, I seriously doubt you would not use the extra slot*

 

Ah, you're addressing me! How lovely - I'm happy to address your point. Yes, I am one of those naysayers, and very proud of it. One point of contention with your statement - we are few in volume of posts generated in this thread but not few in number. First, how many people who thought the current slots were sufficient click on this suggestion thread to speak up? Now, to the point at hand: of course I would use the bonus slot if implemented, it would be too tempting. This is why I am against raising limits. I already spend uncomfortably much time on this game just doing upkeep on my spreadsheets on my lineage projects and my weekly breedings, etc. Adding an eighth slot adds noticeably more work for me for no reward (or I will abandon my projects and stop caring altogether). I will always be greedy and fill the slots I have. However, instant gratification in collecting large numbers of things is why I have quit so many other collectibles games out there. On DC, I actually think about every dragon I put on my scroll and can tell you a little about the history of almost every one - I surprised myself with this when I was going through my dragons filling out a sheet with descriptions of everything from the lineage to where I got the dragon and almost every one I had detailed knowledge of where/when/why of it coming to my scroll. Each dragon gets less and less thought/attention with more slots. It makes it more about 'grab everything!' than 'which dragons do I actually want?' More slots = more boring.

 

However, based on reading and participating in this thread, some people have expressed great desire for a nice even number for various reasons. Having found some of these arguments compelling, I am fine with the compromise of +1/+3 increase (which could be done a number of ways) and then a commitment to no really, never again raise the limits. People will get accustomed to 8/24 and start whining about wanting even more slots very quickly. It's human nature.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Lavinia

[Fuzzbucket]

How many egg slots someone else has does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

How many scrolls someone else has does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

How long or short a time someone else has been here does affect me and my experience with DC.

 

How exactly ?

[olympe]

Well, imagine a superb hunter who regularly catches CB metals - and usually has 6 out of 7 eggs be CB metals. Maybe by being very dedicated, owning a good computer, having good internet and amazing reflexes, maybe by using forbidden scripts. Awful, right? Because that's 6 CB metals every couple of days other players don't get.

 

Now imagine that player has not one, but maybe 5 scrolls. (I know, nobody would do that. But hypothetically speaking...) That's not only 6, but now 30 CB metals every couple of days nobody else gets.

 

Imagine there's not just one player like that, but somewhere between dozens and hundreds. 0_0

 

Does it affect you?

 

 

However, it's also pretty clear that an 8th egg slot wouldn't affect us all that much. Multi-scrolling, although forbidden, is much more effective - until you get your scrolls burnt, that is.

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh MULTIscrolling affects us all. That's bad people with an extra 7 slots per multiscroll, maybe.

 

But everyone potentially having an extra egg slot - well, did we all complain when they went up in the first place ?

[cyradis4]

Oh MULTIscrolling affects us all. That's bad people with an extra 7 slots per multiscroll, maybe.

 

But everyone potentially having an extra egg slot - well, did we all complain when they went up in the first place ?

I think in general, its not about "this would effect me" and more about "it might not directly effect me, but is it fair?"

 

The world isn't fair. RL isn't fair. That doesn't mean we can't try to be fair, so long as it doesn't create problems. And I don't think giving people +4 slots for being inactive, even if there's only a couple of them and even if it doesn't materially effect me, is fair.

 

Should we have some huge complicated procedure to determine activity? No. But I think a simple activity checker (TJ to determine the specifics) for the +4 slots is fair. Logging in seems to be a good way. I had to play for my Gold Trophy. The people with lesser trophies who have been here 4+ years have played for their scrolls. Why should anyone (even if just a couple) be given more for not being here?

 

I personally prefer only a +1 for being active at least 1 year, myself, for ease of explaining. For that one, I don't think you'd need any sort of activity checker.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited September 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[Fuzzbucket]

TJ has actually only suggested one extra slot.... My bold.

 

Add another egg slot for users that have been around for over a year, regardless of badge.

 

So with Gold you'd get up to 8 eggs, but people without gold (not sure how many people don't get gold within a year, but it's certainly possible) also still get it.

[cyradis4]

There's two components here:

 

1. An alternate way to get more egg slots without trophies (by being active for a period of time).

 

2. An increase in the maximum egg slot count (7 -> 8).

 

Either, neither, or both could happen.

 

So it could be that everyone stays at 7 max, but people without trophies can get 7 eventually.

 

Or it could be 8 max, and people with trophies get 7, then 1 for being here 1+ years, and people without trophies have to be here 4+ years to get 8).

Here's a better explanation of TJ's more recent thoughts.

 

Cheers!

C4.