Refuse to Have Refusals!

[Pokemonfan13]

At this point I think we either need an action that allows reversal of refusals or to have them removed completely. I personally wasn't too bothered by refusals until my only male GoN refused his shiny new 2nd gen tinsel from male GoN mate... Some mates are far more irreplaceable than others.

[VixenDra]

Besides, I have a strong feeling that refusal rate went UP:/

 

Sample? My bf finally got a 2g Prize, this one was from Magmas. And guess what? 2 Magmas refused IN A ROW, and next time he traded for another CB Magma he traded for 2 at once, just in case. This was riddiculus(not amusing).

And when he got a lowgen Prize with female Desipis, guess what? The ONLY female Desipis he had refused... Prize wasted, he won't breed it.

 

Also I had no refusals for a looong while and then out of a sudden I started getting them quite a lot, starting this summer(luckily AFTER Xenos were all paired).

And I'd be in a murderous mood if my so long sought for Alt Black pair refused:/

And I can't imagine my possible outrage if my hardly traded for 2g Prizes pair will refuse(still waiting to get the female)... really, no idea how on Earth would I replace that... I can't catch CB metals and can't breed anything worth a 2g Prize... GOLD Prize to be specific... Less CBs avalable stuff, you know.

 

And what refusals add to my game when there is a new release? Am unnecessary WASTE of a CB new release adult. As I keep only one pair per breed (exept useful BSAs and one-gender 2CB limited holidays in case I needed to change the pairing or sth) and I get rid of everything I won't need, even if it means releasing(wasting);

if a new release pair refuses, one of the adults gets released to the wild=total WASTE of sth quite a few users would dream to have at that time. (and this is even when I incubate the pair and leave the 3rd to mature later, I try to reduce the CB waste)

also, I wouldn't hunt/cooperate/trade for 3 eggs per new breed but just for 2 (as now 2 is too risky) and I'd also be much more likely to gift if I catch more than I need.

 

ATM I'm having problems to replace a 2g Red Stripe (my Whites are not productive:( and I have 1/6 chance the egg will be Red), I'm certainly not having fun... But at least atm this is the only refusal I know I still need to replace (and waste one of these 2 bloody refuseds), while there is some chance I still would need to look for a 2g Prize if the pair refuses when I finally receive the female (breedig lists were quite long and it's taking ages to breed all the Prize eggs on the way +mine, I'm waiting months for the female already and I was close to the beginning of the queue from a start while the CB Prize owner is breeding her regularly! so you know... the kind of feeling if the pair refuses :/)

 

I hate refusals. WE hate refusals. And my BF may loose patience if he gets a few more of them in the more special cases(which means he may rage quit the game).

 

 

BTW adding some 'reality'/'realism' to DC makes no sense... thare are many unrealistic things in the game and adding refusals won't make it any more probable.

GoNs anyone? If any animal couln't breed offspring of their own kind they'd extict quickly. GoNs should be long gone with their inability to breed true. And Summoned? How would they reproduce in the world they're summoned from? If true, then why would they loose this ability? Well, no matter how logical the answer may be, this is unrealistic. So as for me, 'adding some realism to the game' is NOT an excuse for refusals.

[cbussiere]

I love the idea of refusals resetting on Valentine's day. It's less complicated than a BSA, allows the limiting effects of refusal to still be present, just not permanent (with a BSA it could become trivial), and it's a cute concept. Seems like a good compromise between keeping and removing refusals. I doubt many would argue to keep them, but as frustrating as it can be, I do appreciate the realistic aspect of it. Not enough to want it to be totally permanent, though.

[pinkgothic]

Besides, I have a strong feeling that refusal rate went UP:/

I've got the good fortune that I can easily find out all new pairs I tried and how many of those actually refused. Since August 2nd 2015 (which is the last time I checked), I tried 293 new pairs and 24 of those resulted in refusals, which is a rate <10%. Looking only at 2016 so far, I've tried 110 new pairs and 12 of those resulted in refusals - just narrowly over 10%.

 

That's actually lower than in the time between January 1st 2015 and August 2nd 2015, where I tried 98 new pairs and 16 refused.

 

I strongly suspect the refusal rate has stayed the same, though it's generally tricky to try extrapolating from a single user's data set - be that my data set or anyone else's.

 

(That said, I don't think this game needs refusals. I just wanted to drizzle some data into the thread.)

[quupee]

I love the idea of refusals resetting on Valentine's day. It's less complicated than a BSA, allows the limiting effects of refusal to still be present, just not permanent (with a BSA it could become trivial), and it's a cute concept. Seems like a good compromise between keeping and removing refusals. I doubt many would argue to keep them, but as frustrating as it can be, I do appreciate the realistic aspect of it. Not enough to want it to be totally permanent, though.

I really, really like this! It could easily be incorporated into a cheesy story of some sort.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

We don't need a 'story'.. we need a game mechanic removed. Some of us couldn't care less about the RP aspect of the game.. plus, RP is NOT an official part of the game. It's allowed and even has it's own forum subsection, but it's NOT a game mechanic.

 

Trading used to not be a part of the game either, but guess what... TJ added it. Lineages used to not be part of the game, but they are now. BSA's weren't always a part of the game either... Freezing has been changed from it's original method.. we even have Bite lineages now.

 

So why can't we REMOVE something that is no longer relevant to the game?

 

Things have been changed over time.. added over time.. we've even removed dragons from the game. Multi-clutches went away except for holidays.. rare x rare can breed now.. heck, we've even got 4 different breeding groups now. Change is GOOD.. new things are GOOD.. but when something is no longer good, it should be eliminated. Refusals are NOT GOOD anymore, they serve NO useful purpose and they add nothing to game play except frustration. Frustration is BAD and bad should not be part of our game.

[quupee]

We don't need a 'story'.. we need a game mechanic removed. Some of us couldn't care less about the RP aspect of the game.. plus, RP is NOT an official part of the game. It's allowed and even has it's own forum subsection, but it's NOT a game mechanic.

 

Trading used to not be a part of the game either, but guess what... TJ added it. Lineages used to not be part of the game, but they are now. BSA's weren't always a part of the game either... Freezing has been changed from it's original method.. we even have Bite lineages now.

 

So why can't we REMOVE something that is no longer relevant to the game?

 

Things have been changed over time.. added over time.. we've even removed dragons from the game. Multi-clutches went away except for holidays.. rare x rare can breed now.. heck, we've even got 4 different breeding groups now. Change is GOOD.. new things are GOOD.. but when something is no longer good, it should be eliminated. Refusals are NOT GOOD anymore, they serve NO useful purpose and they add nothing to game play except frustration. Frustration is BAD and bad should not be part of our game.

I never said it needed a story, I just thought it'd be quite a cute way to announce it. A Valentine's event is expected anyway, so why not incorporate it? I don't usually care about RP aspects of the game because they're never relevant to gameplay. I didn't read any of the text in any of the text adventures, because I'd never need to know it. They gave no useful updates or information. I'd quite like it if one of these game events was actually somewhat relevant to the site. That was the point I was trying to make.

[evinin]

Well, I've just discovered this option. I've been playing for five years but haven't mated many dragons since this option was made (didn't even know about it). I just found out two of my dragons won't mate after the refusal. I've never massbread, collected lineages etc. etc. - I don't play the game like that. All my dragons are with carefully picked up names and mates and I have countless stories with them (not RP, I just have them in my head). So when according to my story two dragons end up together, I would like them to be a couple and have an egg or two. Now I have to change the story into something sad with break-up or such. Now this may sound idiotic to some people but to me it's extremely frustrating and spoiling. I understand that dragons may refuse each other but why make it permanent? Many of my dragons have refused to go near each other many times throughout the years but a week passes and we are good to go. If this was an option even since I was in the cave, I wouldn't have half of my couples and dragons. Yes, with no offence to anyone - this sucks and I'm very annoyed to have encountered it.

Edited April 4, 2016 by evinin

[Fiona]

evinin, your post confuses me somewhat. Permanent refusals have been part of the game since breeding has been around. If you got a "refuse to go near each other" message on a pair you would not have been able to ever breed them successfully. Your post seems to be implying that you got the refusal message one week and successfully bred the same pair the next week.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, I've just discovered this option. I've been playing for five years but haven't mated many dragons since this option was made (didn't even know about it). I just found out two of my dragons won't mate after the refusal. I've never massbread, collected lineages etc. etc. - I don't play the game like that. All my dragons are with carefully picked up names and mates and I have countless stories with them (not RP, I just have them in my head). So when according to my story two dragons end up together, I would like them to be a couple and have an egg or two. Now I have to change the story into something sad with break-up or such. Now this may sound idiotic to some people but to me it's extremely frustrating and spoiling. I understand that dragons may refuse each other but why make it permanent? Many of my dragons have refused to go near each other many times throughout the years but a week passes and we are good to go. If this was an option even since I was in the cave, I wouldn't have half of my couples and dragons. Yes, with no offence to anyone - this sucks and I'm very annoyed to have encountered it.

It has ALWAYS been the case. If they refused - that's IT. If they just didn't feel like it or didn't manage an egg - yes they can go again. But a refusal (except of holiday dragons in season) has ALWAYS been permanent.

 

Ninjaed

Edited April 4, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[evinin]

Well, this is very strange. I am 100% sure that I've had "refuse to go near each other" throughout the years at least a couple of times and then I've had no problems with mating my dragons. I can't be mistaken since when I got this message last week, I payed no attention to it (since I've seen it before) and I saw an hour ago that I couldn't mate them which got me really confused. I don't think it's possible for me to be playing for 5 years without a refusal, surely, but I've never had a grayed out dragon without an option to breed with it.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I think I understand the problem now. While refusals have been around forever, the grayed out move to the bottom of the breeding list was only added a year or so ago. So if evinin only breeds her dragons on rare occasions, she might have never seen the 'new' refusal setup.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Cinnamin Draconna

[Fuzzbucket]

I think I understand the problem now. While refusals have been around forever, the grayed out move to the bottom of the breeding list was only added a year or so ago. So if evinin only breeds her dragons on rare occasions, she might have never seen the 'new' refusal setup.

THAT makes sense. Seems to me that you now CANNOT choose a refused pair and before you could, and they'd helpfully refuse again, yes ?

[Ruby Eyes]

Here's the News thread about that change: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=117444

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, this is very strange. I am 100% sure that I've had "refuse to go near each other" throughout the years at least a couple of times and then I've had no problems with mating my dragons. I can't be mistaken since when I got this message last week, I payed no attention to it (since I've seen it before) and I saw an hour ago that I couldn't mate them which got me really confused. I don't think it's possible for me to be playing for 5 years without a refusal, surely, but I've never had a grayed out dragon without an option to breed with it.

ACTUALLY and also, a little while ago I did report a few previously refused pairs I had that had suddenly agreed to do the thing, in TLQ. I'd gone to breed a dragon, and to my amazement saw the mate I knew had refused (I have a database; I am an obsessive geek !) in the list Amazed, I hit "oh go on then" - and to my even greater surprise - an egg ! Fascinated, I went to try a few others - and three more pairs who had previously refused were OK again. It was pointed out at the time that SOME of those could have been in the recent data loss we all suffered - but the first pair certainly wasn't; it had been a HUGE frustration at the time.

[Ribombee]

Besides, I have a strong feeling that refusal rate went UP:/

I don't know if they went up or have always been completely ridiculous. I just had 4 out of 13 dragons refuse their mates. I know that is a small sample size, but still, that's ~31% which refused their mates. When I was keeping better track of my refusals, most weeks I was consistently getting ~15-30% refusal rates. Whether that is the intended, coded rate or not, it's still inanely high.

 

When you have little to no chance of getting another mate (like 2nd gen prizes, extremely long checkers you just happen to find a mate for, etc.), a 15-30% rate of refusal is completely disheartening. Something, ANYTHING, would be nice, be it a removal of refusals (unlikely to happen) or just a way to reset and try again, even if it is a long wait between.

[olympe]

Well, this is very strange. I am 100% sure that I've had "refuse to go near each other" throughout the years at least a couple of times and then I've had no problems with mating my dragons. I can't be mistaken since when I got this message last week, I payed no attention to it (since I've seen it before) and I saw an hour ago that I couldn't mate them which got me really confused. I don't think it's possible for me to be playing for 5 years without a refusal, surely, but I've never had a grayed out dragon without an option to breed with it.

Well, there are some exceptions. For holiday x whatever pairs, refusals get reset during their holiday season. I have one pair that refused out of season, bred an egg in season and another one out of season. But I haven't tried breeding them since. (Or once, with no egg / no interest.)

 

Ages ago, rare x rare was impossible, where golds, silvers, holidays, geodes and trios were considered "rare". (There were some glitches, though.) These refusals got reset, too.

 

Plus, there's the chance of data loss changing things.

[stagazer_7]

For holiday x whatever pairs, refusals get reset during their holiday season. I have one pair that refused out of season, bred an egg in season and another one out of season. But I haven't tried breeding them since. (Or once, with no egg / no interest.)

I've had a whole bunch of holiday refusals (which is normal as I have a ton of holiday pairings ), but I must be extremely unlucky, because I haven't had a single pair that refused initially produce anything but holiday offspring - I did get another chance of trying the pair, after the reset, but got a 100% refusal rate so far. Quite disheartening to be honest... hopefully this issue will be dealt with eventually. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

[stardust13]

So, this thread is coming up on a two-year anniversary. How long does it have to go on without an answer from TJ or The Powers That Be as to whether removing or changing refusals are:

 

1. Being Considered

2. Being Worked On

3. Happening for Sure

4. Not Happening for Sure

 

It's like a bad business meeting where the same idea is being discussed into circles. Only, there's no circle here - people want something done about refusals.

 

Personally, I would happy with a BSA with a long cool-down. I just want a chance - a chance - at convincing a refused pair to try again.

 

I would love to see refusals removed altogether, of course, but as a compromise to the game and those who think it is realistic, I am willing to go with a BSA with a long cool-down, which seems to me to be a bare-minimum bone that could be thrown at those of us who want it gone.

 

That said - is anything being done or thought about refusals at the Powers That Be level?

Edited April 26, 2016 by stardust13

[stagazer_7]

I agree, it would be encouraging to know if anything is planned here - I haven't read anything anywhere that this topic is even being considered, but remain hopeful that it will be addressed and resolved soon. I don't believe that the suggestion to somehow modernize refusals with any of the ideas that have been suggested is unreasonable or impossible to code. I honestly don't know what else is to be suggested, there are a number of viable solutions, one of them just needs to be carried through and we'd be done here.

 

 

[saltywench]

I would very much like to see the Valentines have a year round BSA that encouraged success between refusing pairs. The fertility BSA isn't guaranteed, so the Ardor "heat of passion or desire," BSA could alter the refusal to the same chances of yes or no interest, which is better than never ever.

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm remembering why I don't breed many of my own lineages even though I absolutely love collecting lineages.

 

Something needs done about refusals. I'm so tired of being set back at least a week even on super commons because of refusals. I don't do rare lines because I like being able to continue lines easily, but refusals are a wildcard that stand in the way of that. And with rare lines? Thank goodness I don't do them because I could see my blood pressure quickly rising with refusals for those... My preferred way of dealing with this is definitely to get rid of refusals. We already have no interest/no egg results, and I'm not asking for those to be removed. I do not see the point of refusals from a gameplay standpoint. Only from an RP standpoint, and it's been said before that shouldn't make or break the game.

[DuskOfTheStars]

Agreeing with Sock here. I'm still angry about the Silver Tinsel who refused two dragons in a row. Oh, and I hate my one CB Silver because she refuses 2 Ice dragon males two weeks in a row. And one was my only CB male Ice... So ues. Don't want to deal with that, as it is very frustrating.

[Amaterasu-sama]

Is it just me or holiday dragons are absolute SOBs and reject mates left, right and center? I can't believe how many refusals I get with any holidays x common/uncommon breeding.

 

I have also had to deal with refusals where mate replacement isn't possible. I understand the RP idea behind refusals, but it really pains me in case of dragons that were too expensive to acquire and possibly are irreplaceable and then one of the mate refuses. So something needs to be done for those cases.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Amaterasu-sama

[Moonwick]

I support this, reasons already have been said previously, the main one being that it only adds frustration, doesn't make any sense to work hard to find rares and perfect lineages to only have a refusal. It adds nothing to the game at all. RP wise and mechanic wise.