Refuse to Have Refusals!

[olympe]

*pipes up*

Yes, please.

 

I once got a lovely bronze tinsel (3rd gen staircase with CB golds) that I'd love to breed - but he refused the only available mate. :/

[cyradis4]

I'd still prefer a refusal re-set BSA, or actually....

 

The one that re-rolls the Breeding outcomes dice, because some dragons just *hate* breeding *anything*. I have one CB Gold who has twice the refusals of the other 7, and I always breed them at the same time to the same mates and that one is one of my "younger" CB Gold females.

 

Then of course we have these 4! Notice that the two pairs with half the number of Teimarr babies are also the two who refused other mates:

http://dragcave.net/progeny/VnMpM

http://dragcave.net/progeny/JIU3i

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/5RsSZ

http://dragcave.net/progeny/RWJrs

 

Again, I always breed all 4 at the same time.

 

Now, I would never bother using any sort of BSA on the Teimarr x Vine, not if it had any sort of decent cooldown. Nor on that pesky CB Gold female (I've got 7 others, after all). But I certainly WOULD have used it on him:

 

Yep.... That's FOUR refused 2nd gen Ices before he liked the 5th.... and he's been quite stingy since, too! There was also this Magma, who rejected 2 suitors before liking the 3rd:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/w6cNM

 

And there are some out there with 6 or 7 refusals. I think the pesky CB Gold I have is at 6 refusals (can't check because she's on cooldown right now).

 

So, there's my updated 2 cents.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Kovia]

Might want to remove that bit in the OP about discontinued breeds since we don't have any of those anymore (yay).

 

I am all for removing refusals altogether, tbh adding in some sort of BSA for it feels overly complicated. And I definitely don't want any holiday dragons getting BSAs, it's hard enough as it is to catch those little buggers during their respective weeks.

 

I suppose refusals are realistic, but they have caused to much annoyance for that to validate them, at least to me. Besides, if we're talking realism here, explain how a Mint can breed with a Plated Colossus.

[SlyFox]

I like the idea of never having refusals, but there could also be a dragon made with a "mind wipe" BSA that could negate any past refusals.

 

It seems like some of the suggestions about keeping refusals and giving them a limited time just make them exactly like no interests, so it would be better to just get rid of the refusal completely or have some rare dragon that can actually erase that effect once in a while.

Edited August 11, 2016 by SlyFox

[stagazer_7]

or have some rare dragon that can actually erase that effect once in a while.

Replace 'rare' with 'common/cave blocker' and I'd support the idea - it would rid us of refusals and make the breed popular and not clutter the Cave anymore. Putting a useful BSA on a rare dragon would just make that dragon even more desirable and thus harder to get.

 

This said, has anyone had any refusals when using Fertility (since the change of course )? I like the step in the right direction and will definitely use Fertility more often once I find enough time to commit to my projects again, but it still doesn't really solve the main issue of why refusals are so problematic for us and it does nothing for pairs which have already refused each other.

[Spiteful_Crow]

I'm gonna revive this thing from the dead like a shambling Zombie because Refusals have been driving me nuts lately. It actually seems like I get more Refusals since I started using Fertility, although that could just be bias and a lack of memory from the ones I got before I started collecting Purples.

 

I did some random breedings a few days ago and had several, which has been happening a lot more lately when I do random breeding sprees. Sometimes I start to get a feel for it, so I use my few Purples on the ones I want most to succeed and take a chance on the ones that I don't care as much about. Then after the seemingly inevitable Refusal, I'll try a few more without Fertility and hope for the best. I think the game is catching on to my strategy, though, because there have been increasing amounts of either back to back Refusals or some that happen very soon after a few successes or "no interest" responses. And speaking of which, I think I get more Refusals than the lack of interest, which is annoying, but at least not permanent.

 

I somehow doubt this mechanic will ever be retired, most likely following the same logic for keeping around Sickness, but I think we deserve a method of counteracting it after all this time. We finally got Ward to protect our eggs (which I'm really grateful for!), so why not the ability to give dragon couples a second chance to get reacquainted?

[dragongrrl]

I've never been a big user of Fertility but recently started using it on both potential parents as part of a pb Gemshard project I'm working on. Since I started doing it this way, I've had no refusals, not even "no egg," knock on wood.

 

Five gens, 15 breedings, 30 fertilities.

https://dragcave.net/lineage/uu5FQ

 

Does the double Fertility have a significantly greater success rate than using it on one partner, or do the breed combinations make a bigger difference?

[HeatherMarie]

51 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

 

Does the double Fertility have a significantly greater success rate than using it on one partner, or do the breed combinations make a bigger difference?

 

Unless something has changed, using Fertility on both partners does absolutely nothing in terms of increasing chance. I'm almost positive that was actually stated by TJ or an artist at some point, though I can't remember when/where. The only time using Fertility on both partners makes any difference is for the alt-Nilias. 

 

I *still* do not support simply removing Refusals entirely. To me if refusals are so frustrating and annoying we should have a *chance* at re-rolling the dice, a chance at undoing the refusal, whether by BSA or other action or whatever.  I think having a chance of the dragons eventually changing their mind is much more realistic than just totally doing away with the option to ever completely refuse a mate. 

[Xopwe]

Maybe we could get our first drake BSA with the vremya drake? A "forget" bsa that makes dragons forget refused mates so you can try again. Adults can only forget a dragon once, if they refuse a second time then it's simply not meant to be. 

[Moriaty]

Get a BSA that gives refused pairs a second chance - that sounds lovely. Removing the possibility of refusal - I would say no to this.

[Laugh]

Agreed, I am hoping for a refusal reset BSA. What if they gave V-day dragons these instead? 

[Shadowdrake]

I wouldn't mind a "reset breed compatibility" bsa. It would also help for those annoying pairs who didn't refuse but also have no interest in breeding together, ever.

[missy_]

I'd like to see:

 

* Fertility increased to 100%, so that if you use a Purple, you are always guaranteed not to get a refusal

 

* Having refusals reset once a year sounds good to me, like on Valentine's Day or some other day. 

[Fuzzbucket]

I just got a crucial refusal.  WITH fertility.

 

No support for anything here other than a BSA that can only be used on one dragon at a time, and only once on that dragon. Refusals are part of the game - even though that can be UTTERLY maddening.... (*is now out of the running for winning that competition* !)

Edited September 12, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

At this point, after so long, I would 100% support a change to Fertility that completely eliminates the option of refusal when used.... Not changing the chance you'd get an egg, of course, but using Fertility and the pairs still refusing is just a complete waste of Fertility and kind of feels pointless. 

 

As for dragons that have already refused, I'd support some sort of 'second chance' BSA, but to keep it from being too overpowered and to keep refusals in game in general it should be a one-time 'second chance', ie if you use it and that pair refuses again you can't keep 're-rolling the dice' indefinitely.  I would not support a blanket reset of all refusals once a year, or anything automatic that affects all refusals on a scroll, that's way too much.

[Guillotine]

A reset BSA with an extremely long (at least a year, two probably more likely to be added) per-target usability cooldown I think would satisfy this. Having to wait that long to try again would discourage re-rolling with replaceable mates and not screw over anyone with irreplaceable ones.

[OMGitsKairi]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:30 PM, missy_ said:

I'd like to see:

 

* Fertility increased to 100%, so that if you use a Purple, you are always guaranteed not to get a refusal

 

* Having refusals reset once a year sounds good to me, like on Valentine's Day or some other day. 

 

I second this. I had never even thought of the idea of automatic resets but yes please. Something. Anything.

Edited September 17, 2021 by OMGitsKairi

[FiveSix]

I love the idea of giving a 'forget' BSA to Vremyas to give another 'first chance'.

 

Alternatively while automatic clearing of refusals on a specific day of the year sounds overpowered to me, something like a specific day/week of the year during which refused pairs can be bred for another chance would be better balanced.

 

Fertility completely removing refusals would also be a really good addition IMO.

[Ruffledfeathers]

Took several weeks maybe months to finally get a different Xeno from a miscolour pair, of course it refuses despite fertility 😠 

 

Please at least have fertility not allow refuses. Its near impossible/aggravating to replace certain mates… 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ruffledfeathers

[Aniia]

I would be ok if refusals went away completely. I've had several lineages ruined or nearly ruined by them.

That said, if the refusal mechanic is popular, then anything we can do to counteract refusals would also be welcome.

[Library_gremlin]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:50 AM, FiveSix said:

I love the idea of giving a 'forget' BSA to Vremyas to give another 'first chance'.

 

Alternatively while automatic clearing of refusals on a specific day of the year sounds overpowered to me, something like a specific day/week of the year during which refused pairs can be bred for another chance would be better balanced.

 

Fertility completely removing refusals would also be a really good addition IMO.

Like on Valentine’s Day lol. New Year’s Eve? 

[Ruffledfeathers]

I swear the rate of refusals had recently quadrupled, seems almost back to back to back. Including one with fertility.
 

What the heck is going on!?

 

I was a little sad that the new vals didnt come with a forget/rekindle BSA or something especially seeing as it ties into the description. I think adding this would be great. 
 

So tired of refusals especially when you even use fertility. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ruffledfeathers

[Stormfriend]

I’m okay with refusals as a game mechanic. All games have a botch, a “go straight to jail do not pass go do not collect$,” a strikeout. It should be rare, though, and I suggest the following (apologies if someone else suggested it):

 

Both dragons remain available for breeding, no cooldown, try again with someone else immediately.

[sorenna]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:28 AM, Stormfriend said:

I’m okay with refusals as a game mechanic. All games have a botch, a “go straight to jail do not pass go do not collect$,” a strikeout. It should be rare, though, and I suggest the following (apologies if someone else suggested it):

 

Both dragons remain available for breeding, no cooldown, try again with someone else immediately.

 

I'd like this - seems to me that if they won't even get near each other, then they shouldn't have the same cooldown as a dragon that actually attempted to breed. 

 

Let them cool down for a day, or an hour, then be ready to try again.  Like going on the rebound after a terrible blind date.! 

 

It would also be nice if Fertility removed all chance of Refusal.  Or if we had certain days each year where Refusal didn't apply - like holidays for holiday dragons, but for the rest of the breeds!  The 14th of each month?  Whenever Cirion is full?  The seasonal Solstices/Equinoxes? Something.

Edited January 30, 2023 by sorenna

[StarlightLion]

Please this. I have had so many back-to-backs in my time breeding these dragons. I personally would love to see the refusal mechanic done away with entirely (it hits the same Why does this exist mark as hostile ratios to me), I'm under the impression that TJ has explicitly said in the past that he isn't going to remove it for whatever reason, and it's his game so fair enough I suppose. In light of that, a BSA that lets us reset refusals would be both game-changing to have and frankly I think deserved at this point. It wouldn't even be a big deal if the cooldown was massive, even separate from how many times a single dragon could be targeted. I don't think many players would bother using it on caveborn dragons bred to other caveborns - except in extremely specific circumstances, like maybe with the CB hybrids floating about - because for the most part you can always just breed to a different caveborn of the same species, so while annoying it's not devastating.

But lineaged dragons. Lineaged dragons can be excruciatingly difficult to obtain, rare breeds and/or rare pairings and/or ratio heckery. I've made the mistake of not using Fertility before and while that's definitely in part my own fault, Fertility doesn't mean no refusals, so the point there seems pretty moot to me. Having a lineaged pair refuse can completely end a breeding project right there and then, and that's... I dunno, that seems just really really terrible for a game to have that kind of mechanic. It's a game, it's meant to be enjoyable. You're meant to be able to customise your scroll and your dragons as you please, and having an entire project that you really wanted to make be completely sniped dead by a random chance mechanic that we the players can do absolutely nothing about is just... horrible. Some pairs simply are not replaceable. We deserve at least the chance at making refused pairs work.

Hell, I'm incredibly lucky in that the vast majority of lineaged pairs I work with are Holidays, and I can thus always get a Holiday from them and work to trade for the non-Holiday mate - but even then, getting hold of those non-Holidays can be incredibly difficult when I can't breed bloodswaps for them. (Of course the community here is wonderful and I've been gifted Snow/Floral lines I'm after many times ❤️) But I have some lines that honestly will just be dead if certain pairs refuse, and that feels like an incredible hostility between the game and the players, and imo games should never work directly against the players.