Unfreezing

[edwardelricfreak]

Maybe they could be brought back at 4-5 days or something? Gives them time to gender, too, if they haven't, though I guess that's not really a problem.

 

Again, that's still only if they aren't insta-adults. I don't mind either one, just so long as they aren't tradeable and the feature isn't too abusable.

[Fuzzbucket]

What is actually the POINT of not having instant adults ?

[edwardelricfreak]

What is actually the POINT of not having instant adults ?

I don't have one. Someone else might, though? I think it's mostly just an option.

 

On a separate note...

 

Maybe if they insta-adult, they also cannot breed or use BSAs right away, too? Probably been mentioned before, but wanted to bring it up again.

Edited July 21, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[Imzadi]

When in doubt, I generally prefer to keep it as simple as possible, within the framework of the game. Instant adult would be my preference. (Unless it was frozen with a very low number of views. Then maybe it could have the usual 7 days to grow up. But there would have to be a dividing line somewhere. So instant adult is still probably best.)

[edwardelricfreak]

Maybe they can only insta-adult if they have enough views? idk just seems weird for them to instantly grow up, still.

 

Simple solution isn't always the best. I'm not really saying that against this suggestion, just saying it in general.

[LibbyLishly]

The arguments brought forward for making the hatchlings grow again had more to do with the fact that DC is, at its core, a game of growing things, and one could use Freeze and then Unfreeze to get out of having to grow a dragon on its own. If Insta-adult is paired with 1 unfreeze a month, that's 12 free adults that you didn't have to do any work to grow.

 

Now, that possibility is why I prefer a wait period of 1 year and then insta-adults. However, the arguments are reasonable enough and I don't feel strongly enough about it to reject the idea outright. If asked, I'll argue for insta-adults for every reason everyone else has listed, but if TJ feels the more complicated method makes more sense, so be it.

 

ETA: @eef - I'm not comfortable with the idea of preventing insta-adults from breeding or using BSAs. It renders the whole suggestion utterly, utterly pointless. Plus, there would be even more angry and/or panicky questions in the Help section demanding why their newly-unfrozen adult can't breed or Incubate when that's exactly why they unfroze it - and there would be no going back.

Edited July 21, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[olympe]

Well, if you consider that a gold trophy owner can easily raise 21 dragons in 3-4 days (with incuhatchable eggs and some time to spare), which means about 2100 dragons a year, 12 extras a year seem like a drop in the bucket.

[LibbyLishly]

True 'nuf, but it's still a valid concern given how the game usually works and given TJ's post much earlier in this thread.

[Imzadi]

The arguments brought forward for making the hatchlings grow again had more to do with the fact that DC is, at its core, a game of growing things, and one could use Freeze and then Unfreeze to get out of having to grow a dragon on its own. If Insta-adult is paired with 1 unfreeze a month, that's 12 free adults that you didn't have to do any work to grow.

 

Now, that possibility is why I prefer a wait period of 1 year and then insta-adults. However, the arguments are reasonable enough and I don't feel strongly enough about it to reject the idea outright. If asked, I'll argue for insta-adults for every reason everyone else has listed, but if TJ feels the more complicated method makes more sense, so be it.

I am not at all opposed to having to wait the year. For me, the wait and then insta-adult would be ideal..but that's just me. The very few thing I want to unfreeze are well past one year, of course.

[edwardelricfreak]

ETA: @eef - I'm not comfortable with the idea of preventing insta-adults from breeding or using BSAs. It renders the whole suggestion utterly, utterly pointless. Plus, there would be even more angry and/or panicky questions in the Help section demanding why their newly-unfrozen adult can't breed or Incubate when that's exactly why they unfroze it - and there would be no going back.

I don't see why it makes it pointless? It just means you have to wait for the cooldown to wear off? idk I think it makes sense, considering what a shock to the system it would be to suddenly become an adult, even if you are technically an adult on the inside.

 

Just other suggestions for possible balance is all those are, anyway.

[LibbyLishly]

*Goes back and re-reads things* OH. Can't breed or BSA RIGHT AWAY. I thought you were hearkening back to the suggestion that they would NEVER be able to use those actions. My bad. Carry on.

Edited July 21, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[edwardelricfreak]

*Goes back and re-reads things* OH. Can't breed or BSA RIGHT AWAY. I thought you were hearkening back to the suggestion that they would NEVER be able to use those actions. My bad. Carry on.

Haha what no that would be awful! D:

[sonseray]

I'd really prefer freezing not be permanent. I froze a CB yulebuck back in 2008. That was my first DC holiday, and back then the scroll goal of myself and many others was simply to collect every sprite. The way I looked at it back then, if I did not freeze my yulebuck I could never complete my scroll. The game has changed a lot since then, and while I certainly froze my yulebuck with the full expectation of permanency, I think I should be allowed to exonerate my poor yulebuck from his freezing because the nature of the game has changed so much since then.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Bleh, why is this getting all messy again? Year and a week long cooldown + insta adult is best. Any shorter a time allows it to be abused as an easy way around scroll limits. Having to wait a year and having to have raised them to hatchlings already means they are anything but instant adults (and IMO it makes sense anyway that a dragon cursed to be young would snap to instant age once the curse was removed--it works this way in most old legends that I know of). And adding additional restrictions to those adults after the already long wait is overkill.

 

If TJ doesn't like it he can feel free to change parts of it (as always) but I don't think the thread needs to be in an uproar again now. We've discussed all this a thousand times before and while you can never please everyone the current idea is the closest we've got and are likely to get.

[KageSora]

It got messy again because somebody wanted to use this suggestion for exactly what the year-long wait was designed to prevent: rapid obtainment of dragons.

 

 

I myself am still in favor of the year long wait, possibly 6 months, but no shorter than 3. IF they have to re-grow, reset to 7 days and being scroll-bound. Sickness prevention, or views gathered previously no longer counting (if possible I'd like them not to be reset, but if they have to that's okay too).

[Pixxelation]

Honestly, I don't see much potential for abuse. I am still unconvinced about the arguments for a five-thousand day cooldown, and don't find it necessary at all. I think it should be similar to how freeze is now, but with different day values; you can unfreeze up to 5 hatchlings in a certain time frame before having to wait a month, and you must wait at least two weeks or a month before unfreezing them. They'd be scroll-bound and reset to 7 days still, of course, or instantly become adults. I don't see how being able to unfreeze a few hatchlings at a time can lead to abuse. Being able to "overuse" the feature makes no sense as an argument, IMO.

[DragonLady86]

Bleh, why is this getting all messy again? Year and a week long cooldown + insta adult is best. Any shorter a time allows it to be abused as an easy way around scroll limits. Having to wait a year and having to have raised them to hatchlings already means they are anything but instant adults (and IMO it makes sense anyway that a dragon cursed to be young would snap to instant age once the curse was removed--it works this way in most old legends that I know of). And adding additional restrictions to those adults after the already long wait is overkill.

 

If TJ doesn't like it he can feel free to change parts of it (as always) but I don't think the thread needs to be in an uproar again now. We've discussed all this a thousand times before and while you can never please everyone the current idea is the closest we've got and are likely to get.

Just a year would be fine. even holidays can't hatch on the first day so, they still wouldn't be able to be adults in time for the breeding period the next year.

 

And I think the messy-ness is partly my fault. I've been following the thread but wasn't sure if a consensus on the insta-adult vs. reset timer had been reached and apparently started the whole debate over again. D: I sorry.

 

I still say I prefer the instant adults, but I do also think having to raise them up to adults again would allow for a shorter timer. It's not really abusing the system if you still have to do the work.

[danicast]

It got messy again because somebody wanted to use this suggestion for exactly what the year-long wait was designed to prevent: rapid obtainment of dragons.

 

 

I myself am still in favor of the year long wait, possibly 6 months, but no shorter than 3. IF they have to re-grow, reset to 7 days and being scroll-bound. Sickness prevention, or views gathered previously no longer counting (if possible I'd like them not to be reset, but if they have to that's okay too).

Did I miss something? I've been following the thread and haven't see any person suggesting "rapid obtainment of dragons". Can you point that to me, please?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The simple truth is that unfreezing can be used to get around scroll limits. However, this is only a big issue if unfreezing can be done frequently / rapidly.

 

If unfreezing worked the same way as freezing, people could get about two dozen extra hatchling spots per every two weeks. Locked on hatchlings? Freeze some, wait a couple weeks, unfreeze. It makes it VERY easy to get a LARGE number of extra hatchling spots. It's a loophole that allows people to abuse the limits rather than do what unfreeze is, for the most part, intended to do--allow people to reverse decisions made with regret, not intent.

 

Whereas if you have to wait a year to unfreeze? No one's going to be able to (or, hopefully, really want to) exploit that. It will make sure unfreeze is used as a tool to undo regretted mistakes, not to avert limits.

 

Another alternative would be to simply have 12 unfreezes a year, period (maybe one every 30 days?), which would accomplish the above without such a long wait. It would still make it more profitable to stock up on extra Holiday hatchlings than a year + week wait would, though (as the latter prevents those Holidays from being used for Holiday breeding for a whole two years--quite a penalty).

 

TBH I don't care which of the two above suggestions is used (or if another one is used), so long as the focus remains on fixing regretted freezings rather than gaining extra hatchling spots.

Edited July 22, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[danicast]

The simple truth is that unfreezing can be used to get around scroll limits. However, this is only a big issue if unfreezing can be done frequently / rapidly.

 

If unfreezing worked the same way as freezing, people could get about two dozen extra hatchling spots per every two weeks. Locked on hatchlings? Freeze some, wait a couple weeks, unfreeze. It makes it VERY easy to get a LARGE number of extra hatchling spots. It's a loophole that allows people to abuse the limits rather than do what unfreeze is, for the most part, intended to do--allow people to reverse decisions made with regret, not intent.

 

Whereas if you have to wait a year to unfreeze? No one's going to be able to (or, hopefully, really want to) exploit that. It will make sure unfreeze is used as a tool to undo regretted mistakes, not to avert limits.

 

Another alternative would be to simply have 12 unfreezes a year, period (maybe one every 30 days?), which would accomplish the above without such a long wait. It would still make it more profitable to stock up on extra Holiday hatchlings than a year + week wait would, though (as the latter prevents those Holidays from being used for Holiday breeding for a whole two years--quite a penalty).

That's why I suggested to unfreeze only hatchies that were frozen 90 days earlier, it's a nice period of time to wait and don't create situations of abuse.

 

I also suggested 3 hatchies per month since some people think that it's too much to unfreeze each 90 days.

Edited July 22, 2014 by danicast

[angelicdragonpuppy]

That's why I suggested to unfreeze only hatchies that were frozen 90 days earlier, it's a nice period of time to wait and don't create situations of abuse.

 

I also suggested 3 hatchies per month since some people think that it's too much to unfreeze each 90 days.

While I'd be more open to either of those than just it being opposite-freeze, at least to me it still feels like an excessive amount. I mean, even with 3/month it's going to be 36 a year, and who REALLY has that many hatchlings that they super regret freezing? Even if someone did have that many, they'd finish them within a single year... and then it's year after year of 36 extra hatchling slots.

 

Which I mean, isn't a ton considering how many things we can raise each year, but eh. I just feel if you make the numbers too high it gets away from the original purpose. If the goal is just to let people fix things made during different circumstances (CB Holidays, Discontinueds) or oopsies (late night freezing!), do we really need that many a year? ;___;

[danicast]

While I'd be more open to either of those than just it being opposite-freeze, at least to me it still feels like an excessive amount. I mean, even with 3/month it's going to be 36 a year, and who REALLY has that many hatchlings that they super regret freezing? Even if someone did have that many, they'd finish them within a single year... and then it's year after year of 36 extra hatchling slots.

 

Which I mean, isn't a ton considering how many things we can raise each year, but eh. I just feel if you make the numbers too high it gets away from the original purpose. If the goal is just to let people fix things made during different circumstances (CB Holidays, Discontinueds) or oopsies (late night freezing!), do we really need that many a year? ;___;

I'm going to quote Olympe:

 

Well, if you consider that a gold trophy owner can easily raise 21 dragons in 3-4 days (with incuhatchable eggs and some time to spare), which means about 2100 dragons a year, 12 extras a year seem like a drop in the bucket.

 

I'm only proposing 3/month as an alternative, that makes 36/year.

It's not an abusive quantity, still is a drop in the bucket compared to 2100 dragons that one can raise per year.

[Obscure_Trash]

I think insta-adult makes sense if there's a year long wait because the lower time the hatchling/egg, the less views it will need to hatch. By the time the hatchie is a year old our time, I don't see why it would really struggle to grow up. =p

 

If they grow to be insta-adults, I debate on whether or not you should have to have a free space, but I kinda lean towards having one since there'll be a second where it is a growing hatchling again.

[cyradis4]

If unfreeze is anything less than a year (with the cost being the loss of a breeding season), I for one will use it to up the number of no-effort Holidays I can have.

 

In short:

90 days, or x a year, is very easy to abuse and WILL be: I can say this with certainty because I'm one of the ones who will be doing just that. Neither of those suggestions has an effective deterrent in them for Holidays, and its the Holidays that will be abused the most because of their very nature. Only the loss of that next breeding season would deter me. And the only way to do that and still have something useful is to force a year wait.

 

The truth of the matter is, for those who regret the decision a year wait is a small price to pay to undo the decision. For changes in the game, a year wait isn't much, considering how slowly the game changes. The only time the year wait is problematic is an accidental freeze OR using it to get around scroll limits.

 

As for the free space.... I can agree with that, that the action only shows up if you have an open hatchie spot.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited July 22, 2014 by cyradis4

[danicast]

If unfreeze is anything less than a year (with the cost being the loss of a breeding season), I for one will use it to up the number of no-effort Holidays I can have.

 

In short:

90 days, or x a year, is very easy to abuse and WILL be: I can say this with certainty because I'm one of the ones who will be doing just that. Neither of those suggestions has an effective deterrent in them for Holidays, and its the Holidays that will be abused the most because of their very nature. Only the loss of that next breeding season would deter me. And the only way to do that and still have something useful is to force a year wait.

 

The truth of the matter is, for those who regret the decision a year wait is a small price to pay to undo the decision. For changes in the game, a year wait isn't much, considering how slowly the game changes. The only time the year wait is problematic is an accidental freeze OR using it to get around scroll limits.

 

As for the free space.... I can agree with that, that the action only shows up if you have an open hatchie spot.

 

Cheers!

C4.

If you freeze a holiday hatchie you will have to wait at least 90 days before unfreeze. The holiday season would be ended by them and you will not be able to breed that dragon except after a year. I don't see a problem here.