Unfreezing

[olympe]

The problem is that unfrozen hatchlings (Bright Pinks, Frills, old CB holidays, CB metals collected over the months in order to bid on a 2nd gen prize...) shouldn't be traded. Although these unfrozens could be locked to a scroll, it would be simpler to just have them grow up instantly so there aren't a ton of people asking why their hatchling cannot be teleported.

 

Also, it's quite possible that a frozen hatchling gets views, unique views and even click while frozen. The system merely stops counting them. Thus I think it shouldn't be too illogical to assume that an unfrozen hatchling grows up instantly.

[Fuzzbucket]

The problem is that unfrozen hatchlings (Bright Pinks, Frills, old CB holidays, CB metals collected over the months in order to bid on a 2nd gen prize...) shouldn't be traded. Although these unfrozens could be locked to a scroll, it would be simpler to just have them grow up instantly so there aren't a ton of people asking why their hatchling cannot be teleported.

 

Also, it's quite possible that a frozen hatchling gets views, unique views and even click while frozen. The system merely stops counting them. Thus I think it shouldn't be too illogical to assume that an unfrozen hatchling grows up instantly.

YES ! That is exactly the kind of abuse that would happen if they didn't grow up instantly.

[Ha-Ki]

They could still be locked to the scroll they're on, like GoN's (which was the version I favored, I didn't say they should be tradeable).

However, I agree that it might be annoying to discuss the fact that they can't be traded over and over again in Help...

Edited July 20, 2014 by Ha-Ki

[edwardelricfreak]

I really don't think it will be that much of a problem that people will ask why they can't be traded. Yes, there might be some, but I doubt it will be a bad problem, especially if it says on the Teleport page that they cannot be teleported because they were unfrozen, and if the Unfreeze action/BSA also states that they can't be traded.

 

That said, so long as they can't be traded if they stay as hatchlings, or if they just jump straight to adults, I personally don't care too much. I do feel like they need to get more views if they didn't get enough before they were frozen.

[CNR4806]

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, just a couple of the last pages, so sorry if my post doesn't seem to make sense or refers to things that have already been answered/explained.

While these are, to be quite brutally honest, discussed and explained to death in the thread several times over, I do think that this is a good chance to explain things to newcomers to the thread for the sake of easy reading.

 

Actually I don't see how the instant-adult thing makes sense - how can a hatchie instantly become an adult, if it doesn't have the views needed to grow up? Collecting views to grow your eggs and hatchies is what this game is about in the first place, so I don't think unfreezing should make it possible to get around such an essential game mechanic. Locking the hatchie to the scroll and letting it continue to collect views and to grow is more logical in my opinion.

Insta-adult is more of a balancing suggestion than anything that deals with lore/RP reasons. While I personally see some importance for things to make sense lore-wise in most cases, this is one of the rare "disregard RP/lore or risk breaking the game" dilemmas that I unconditionally support ignoring all RP/lore reasoning.

 

Now, why would not having insta-adult break the game? Long words short: The trade market would be absolutely trashed. Imagine all the frozen discontinued dragons suddenly being up for trade. Even 2nd gen prizes are going to be laughably inefficient trading credits. And these ex-frozen discontinueds will only get more and more expensive because unlike prizes and hollies, there is next to no new blood to replenish these (and in the case of Bright Pinks, absolutely none because they aren't raffle options).

 

It also opens a can of worm where people can freeze their trade fodders and unfreeze on demand, essentially rendering the current "no adult trading" limit moot because everyone can just put their trade fodders on indefinite hold without any risk of them turning adult and thus becomes untradable forever.

 

There is a counter-suggestion that unfrozens can simply be made untradable. But it has been pointed out (at least I think so, shaky memories) that this might cause confusion to people regarding just what is tradable or not (whether on their own scroll or on another person's scroll), so for the sake of everyone's sanity, insta-adult remains the best course of action.

 

Also I don't understand the argument how unfreezing would allow people to get more cb Halloweens, they only drop for one day, if I remember correctly? So to get more you have to trade for the extra ones once yours have hatched, which is already possible. I have 9 cb graves, because I managed to trade for two hatchies a couple of days after Halloween.

 

So you can already get 21 cb Halloweens fairly easily if you have a gold trophy (7 hatched yourself, trading for 14 hatchies to lock you with 21 hatchies), even more if you find people who agree to hold the eggs until they are ER and trade you the hatchies once your first batch grew up. No unfreezing is needed for that - just really good trade fodder and the ability to coordinate that many trades (and IOU's) at once. A possible freeze-unfreeze-option would make the coordination part slightly easier, but still you'd have to trade for so many Halloweens first.

You can just freeze your first batch of holidays (to free up slots), trade some new ones, freeze them as well, rinse and repeat until you can't trade for more, and unfreeze them later on.

 

One could argue that getting holidays beyond the intended scroll limit is currently achievable through trading extreme ERs. Remember, trading so many extreme ERs almost always requires equally extreme pre-planning, communication, timing and sometimes luck. With unfreezing, you're basically doing the same thing without all the hassle of precise timing and slot management, which is mind-bogglingly easy on comparison.

 

It has also been pointed out that while extreme-ER trading grants the person planning for it an insane amount of CB Halloweens, the Halloweens have, at the very least, occupied someone's scroll space while they're going all the way toward that extreme-ER point for the trade. With the unfreezing exploit? The halloweens would be completely out of the scoll limit system.

 

(I still think that freezing should be permanent, but in case it's implemented those are my thoughta about it)

I personally prefer freezing to stay permanent as well. But if this is going to be implemented, at least I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure that nothing game-breaking gets implemented.

 

 

EDIT: Something's seriously wrong. I'll fix it when I wake up. Maybe.

EDIT 2: Fixed. Finally.

Edited July 23, 2014 by CNR4806

[Ha-Ki]

Nice summary, thanks for that!

 

Hmmm, maybe the unfreeze-instant-adult-thing could be explained RP-wise in that way: There simply is no way to revert the freeze spell, but we know a grow spell that can make a frozen hatchie grow... So we don't revert the old spell, but cast a second one on the same hatchie.

 

(has probably been mentioned elsewhere, I think I'll stop to post here before I've read the rest of the discussion )

[Fuzzbucket]

Nice summary, thanks for that!

 

Hmmm, maybe the unfreeze-instant-adult-thing could be explained RP-wise in that way: There simply is no way to revert the freeze spell, but we know a grow spell that can make a frozen hatchie grow... So we don't revert the old spell, but cast a second one on the same hatchie.

 

(has probably been mentioned elsewhere, I think I'll stop to post here before I've read the rest of the discussion )

I don't get excited about the RP side of things - but that works for me.

[DragonLady86]

I really don't think it will be that much of a problem that people will ask why they can't be traded. Yes, there might be some, but I doubt it will be a bad problem, especially if it says on the Teleport page that they cannot be teleported because they were unfrozen, and if the Unfreeze action/BSA also states that they can't be traded.

 

That said, so long as they can't be traded if they stay as hatchlings, or if they just jump straight to adults, I personally don't care too much. I do feel like they need to get more views if they didn't get enough before they were frozen.

We get a lot of posts for named hatchlings, which also can't be traded.

 

and Ha-Ki, if we must have a RP reason, I'll take that one.

[edwardelricfreak]

We get a lot of posts for named hatchlings, which also can't be traded.

 

and Ha-Ki, if we must have a RP reason, I'll take that one.

They don't say why they can't be traded, though. They just don't show up.

[cyradis4]

I really don't think it will be that much of a problem that people will ask why they can't be traded. Yes, there might be some, but I doubt it will be a bad problem, especially if it says on the Teleport page that they cannot be teleported because they were unfrozen, and if the Unfreeze action/BSA also states that they can't be traded.

 

That said, so long as they can't be traded if they stay as hatchlings, or if they just jump straight to adults, I personally don't care too much. I do feel like they need to get more views if they didn't get enough before they were frozen.

I support insta-adult because I too don't want to see the posts of "WHY can't I trade my hatchie??? That's why I unfroze it!".

 

Considering the huge number of other Help posts for topics that are a lot less deserving, I think we'd get questions about this all the time.

 

Also, from TJ's posts in the old "Raising Holiday Limits" thread, how he implemented that change, and other such changes seems to me to indicate that he prefers simple solutions to convoluted ones. And insta-adults is by far the simpler solution.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[edwardelricfreak]

I support insta-adult because I too don't want to see the posts of "WHY can't I trade my hatchie??? That's why I unfroze it!".

 

Considering the huge number of other Help posts for topics that are a lot less deserving, I think we'd get questions about this all the time.

Again, that's why I said so long as reasons were given on the Teleport page as well as Unfreeze action/BSA, it would lower the posts. But that's only if they don't go straight to adult.

[Fuzzbucket]

Another possible abuse if they don't instagrowup and if they were tradeable would be people trading holidays out of season - absolutely a non-OK. And that kind of abuse would be possible with 2nd gens, if not with CBs - hatch and freeze loads from the AP during the breeding window at holidays and next holiday season... They MUST be untradeable, no matter what else.

[HeatherMarie]

I see absolutely no reason to *not* do instant-adult. Too much annoyance and probable abuses the other way. Unless, yunno, users can't use 'unfreeze' until they read-and-check a large, obtrusive thing that comes up about how these are NOT tradeable. (And yet there will still be Help questions....)

 

Sometimes the easiest really is the best, and insta-adults seem to be the best option here.

[XiziX]

How about...

 

Due to the dispell used, you can no longer trade the hatchling? Perhaps the magic simply disallows teleportation spells? Perhaps using that much magic on the poor thing would kill it, or the spell used to take the frozen spell off also makes the hatchling immune to magic due to after effects... Something simple like this can be added and then no one can trade them. Not the best idea, but just a thought.

 

"Named and Unfrozen Hatchlings can not be traded." Could be added to the rules?

 

Maybe IF this unfreeze option is added. In the FREEZE option, it would even say (Freezing a hatchling prevents it from being traded in the future.) or something like that..

 

EDIT: I am a supporter of the instant adult action after freezing, but this may help with the people not liking that idea. I dunno.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Lyxii

[olympe]

Adding things to the rules doesn't help. Too many people don't even bother to read them, much less thoroughly.

[cyradis4]

What olympe said.

 

People just don't read these days, so adding things to rules, or FAQs, won't really do any good. The ones that already read aren't going to need it, and the ones that will need it won't read it anyway.

 

C4.

[LibbyLishly]

Meh. Updated the OP to make the third limitation - the scroll-wide cooldown - a possibility rather than part of the absolute suggestion. I might do some more fiddling depending on whether people would rather 1 unfreeze a month OR a year-long wait period, but I'm not sure both are necessary.

Edited July 21, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[olympe]

Agreed, either one would suffice.

[edwardelricfreak]

Adding things to the rules doesn't help. Too many people don't even bother to read them, much less thoroughly.

I never said to the rules. I said to the Teleport page and the action's description.

 

And if it's on the Teleport page like the (too young) message, I don't know how it won't be seen? That's much more easily seen than something in the rules.

[LibbyLishly]

New OP wording:

 

Unfreeze would be a scroll action that would:

1. Be unavailable for a year after a hatchling is initially frozen OR be available scroll-wide once a month/every 31 days.

2. Cause the hatchling to grow up right away OR cause the hatchling to be locked to the user's scroll (untradeable) and reset its timer to 7 days.

 

Seems pretty simple to me. There are still preferences bouncing around regarding the grow up right away vs. be locked and need views to grow options, but it seems to be to be an equal split in opinion and, in the long run, either one would work. TJ can pick which version makes the most sense to him and make alterations as he sees fit. *Shrug*

Edited July 21, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[SolarCat]

2. Cause the hatchling to grow up right away OR cause the hatchling to be locked to the user's scroll (untradeable) and reset its timer to 7 days.

[/b]

I would like to add that if the hatchlings are reset to 7 days and made to grow up again, they will need some sort of sickness protection. For example, what happens with a hatchling who was purposely given plenty of views to gender early for freezing? Or, even better example, hatchlings who were frozen when views continued to count after a dragon had stopped needing them.

 

For example, my dragon Lou. He would be instantly sick with his stats if he were brought back as a 7-day hatchling:

Overall Views: 8176

Unique Views: 2539

Clicks: 146

 

For the record, I am not against newly unfrozen hatchlings needing to gain views to reach adulthood. I just want to make sure nobody unfreezes their hatchling only to see them die of too many views.

[LibbyLishly]

Good point. Maybe all view and click stats should be reset along with the timer.

[olympe]

Maybe. Or maybe we could must keep it simple and have them grow up instantly?

[LibbyLishly]

That would be my preference too, but since this keeps coming up and since there are a couple of legitimate arguments in favor of it, I figure it won't hurt to have it there as a possibility unless the idea is dealt a death nell somewhere..

[Fuzzbucket]

That would be my preference too, but since this keeps coming up and since there are a couple of legitimate arguments in favor of it, I figure it won't hurt to have it there as a possibility unless the idea is dealt a death nell somewhere..

Allow me to deal it for you.

 

Because WHY should it MATTER - they will not be able to be traded, so where's the harm in an instant adult ? Nothing can be DONE with it until it's an adult anyway (we do all agree that unfrozen hatchies may NO WAY be traded, right ?) - and since some people want everything to happen fast....