Unfreezing

[danicast]

I think danicast was saying 10 unfreezes to match 10 freezes, rather than as a suggestion for a lower unfreeze limit, but I do think the lower limit could be an interesting idea.  I don't know that it would be necessary with the one year wait already proposed, though; that seems like it might become overkill/overcomplicated.  But if a shorter wait time were used instead, it would definitely be something worth considering!

Exactly what I'm trying to say.

To be 100% honest I think that if the waiting period to unfreeze will be one year than it's better to not implement unfreeze and let things as they are.

Edited July 20, 2014 by danicast

[Fuzzbucket]

Exactly what I'm trying to say.

To be 100% honest I think that if the waiting period to unfreeze will be one year than it's better to not implement unfreeze and let things as they are.

So all the people here who want unfreeze with conditions attached, and who have asked for that one year limit have to run with "well, if I can't have it the way I want, then it shouldn't happen" ?

 

No-one says anyone has to use it at all, if it doesn't work they way THEY want

[danicast]

So all the people here who want unfreeze with conditions attached, and who have asked for that one year limit have to run with "well, if I can't have it the way I want, then it shouldn't happen" ?

 

No-one says anyone has to use it at all, if it doesn't work they way THEY want

It's better not to implement and wait till we have more people who agree that the feature should be useful than to implement something that it's completely useless.

It's my opinion. We should be focused in improve the game and not make it worst.

[Fuzzbucket]

But you seem to be the only person who objects to the limits... MANY players think it useful and something that would make the game better - especially those who froze holidays when we could only EVER have two.

 

And just how does it make the game worse ? Anyone who doesn't like the terms on which it would be done doesn't have to use it.

Edited July 20, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[danicast]

But you seem to be the only person who objects to the limits... MANY players think it useful and something that would make the game better - especially those who froze holidays when we could only EVER have two.

 

And just how does it make the game worse ? Anyone who doesn't like the terms on which it would be done doesn't have to use it.

It makes the game worst because it will be another great feature that is put it down and made useless because some people are too scared to be daring and implement something that can enrich the game play, attract more players and make the game more interesting. So basically what I see going on here is that a group that just want to unfreeze the CBs that they froze will agree with any condition just to see their CBs unfrozen and a group of people who make a lot of efforts to keep the game painfully slow and boring.

I am a person who wants to make the game more attractive and interesting. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who think like me, they just are not in this forum right now expressing their opinions. This is the only thing that makes me minority.

And no, I don't think "if you don't like don't use it" it's a good argument, this doesn't help to improve the game.

Edited July 20, 2014 by danicast

[Fuzzbucket]

WELL - I have nothing I want to unfreeze. But I still want to see this as suggested. And I cannot see how doing it without limits is so daring.

[danicast]

WELL - I have nothing I want to unfreeze. But I still want to see this as suggested. And I cannot see how doing it without limits is so daring.

I never suggested "without limits". I just suggested that have THE SAME LIMITS that freeze have; it's quite different.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I never suggested "without limits". I just suggested that have THE SAME LIMITS that freeze have; it's quite different.

Fair enough - but I still don't see why that's so much more DARING than having the limits that so many of us had already agreed on.

[danicast]

Fair enough - but I still don't see why that's so much more DARING than having the limits that so many of us had already agreed on.

Because it would make the feature USEFUL. You can freeze 10 hathies (or 16, I'm not sure about the current limits) and after 90 days you can unfreeze 10 of them if you want. People can add the feature to the gameplay, people will surely use the freeze more since they know that after 90 days they can change their mind if they want. It would be useful and not a waiste of time. If people have to wait a whole year to unfreeze why use this? Only those old players who wants to unfreeze their old CBs will use, the regular player will have no use for this.

I think people are agreeing on the one year limit because they don't want that people use the feature. It really upsets me because to me, this means that the mentality is to keep the game full of restrictions and uninteresting. I think we should aim greatest things, add interesting features that will make the game more popular and played by more people. This can be the first step in this direction. I would like to see this game to live for a long time but as it is now, there aren't much chances to that.

[kecemis]

It makes the game worst because it will be another great feature that is put it down and made useless because some people are too scared to be daring and implement something that can enrich the game play, attract more players and make the game more interesting. So basically what I see going on here is that a group that just want to unfreeze the CBs that they froze will agree with any condition just to see their CBs unfrozen and a group of people who make a lot of efforts to keep the game painfully slow and boring.

I am a person who wants to make the game more attractive and interesting. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who think like me, they just are not in this forum right now expressing their opinions. This is the only thing that makes me minority.

And no, I don't think "if you don't like don't use it" it's a good argument, this doesn't help to improve the game.

This whole "There are lots of people who agree with me, they just aren't on the forum right now" mentality absolutely baffles me. While I agree some people may be intimidated enough not to speak up, that happens on both sides. How can you possible claim to know what the people who don't frequent the forums think? And how can we be expected to cater to them if they decide to ignore the forums?

 

To address another point of yours, creating limitless (or even a limited) unfrozen hatchling BSA isn't going to attract more people to this game anymore than it would deter them. People come for the dragons, not the BSAs.

 

 

To claim that those with differing opinions than your own are trying to make the game "boring, uninteresting, unattractive and painfully slow" is a pretty far stretch.

[kecemis]

Because it would make the feature USEFUL. You can freeze 10 hathies (or 16, I'm not sure about the current limits) and after 90 days you can unfreeze 10 of them if you want. People can add the feature to the gameplay, people will surely use the freeze more since they know that after 90 days they can change their mind if they want. It would be useful and not a waiste of time. If people have to wait a whole year to unfreeze why use this? Only those old players who wants to unfreeze their old CBs will use, the regular player will have no use for this.

I think people are agreeing on the one year limit because they don't want that people use the feature. It really upsets me because to me, this means that the mentality is to keep the game full of restrictions and uninteresting. I think we should aim greatest things, add interesting features that will make the game more popular and played by more people. This can be the first step in this direction. I would like to see this game to live for a long time but as it is now, there aren't much chances to that.

Aren't much chances to it? The Cave has changed a LOT since I first started, and it's only grown in my absence and recent return. I'm sad that you are getting frustrated, and I understand that it's frustrating when no one seems to agree with you, but quite honestly that's life. This site will continue as long as TJ wants to continue it, it's not all going to crumble just because we choose to or choose not to implement a bunch of BSAs, nor should that be the basis of your argument.

 

Regarding unfreezing in general I'm still against it, unless dragons were to chance a insta-grow or had a chance of dying. That, in my mind, is far more interesting of a gameplay direction.

[danicast]

This whole "There are lots of people who agree with me, they just aren't on the forum right now" mentality absolutely baffles me. While I agree some people may be intimidated enough not to speak up, that happens on both sides. How can you possible claim to know what the people who don't frequent the forums think? And how can we be expected to cater to them if they decide to ignore the forums?

 

To address another point of yours, creating limitless (or even a limited) unfrozen hatchling BSA isn't going to attract more people to this game anymore than it would deter them. People come for the dragons, not the BSAs.

 

 

To claim that those with differing opinions than your own are trying to make the game "boring, uninteresting, unattractive and painfully slow" is a pretty far stretch.

I talk to a lot of people who are not member in this forum because I'm a member in another forum where there are several players. The main reason why they don't come here it's because they don't believe that there is space for them. This is the kind of thing that needs constructively discussed in forum feedback or via PM with TJ or a moderator. But TJ comes here and follow the discussion so I'm posting my ideas to TJ, not to the other users. I know by experience that it's very possible that several of the users who are discussing this subject with me will abandon their scrolls with time and the forum, so I'm not worried about that. I'm worried in express my opinions to get to the person who really have power to change things: TJ.

Edited July 20, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[kecemis]

I talk to a lot of people who are not member in this forum because I'm a member in another forum where there are several players. The main reason why they don't come here it's because they don't believe that there is space for them. This is the kind of thing that needs constructively discussed in forum feedback or via PM with TJ or a moderator.  But TJ comes here and follow the discussion so I'm posting my ideas to TJ, not to the other users. I know by experience that it's very possible that several of the users who are discussing this subject with me will abandon their  scrolls with time and the forum, so I'm not worried about that. I'm worried in express my opinions to get to the person who really have power to change things: TJ.

Then you should also PM him regarding the issue and what you think he can do to resolve it.

 

I would understand if you posted your views once or twice and left, because he does follow these boards and reads everything, but that's not what you're doing here. You're trying to use the argument that not everyone who uses DragonCave utilizes the forums, but short of creating a site-wide poll, there is nothing that can be done about it. Presenting this argument does nothing for discussion.

 

This is the kind of thing that needs constructively discussed in forum feedback or via PM with TJ or a moderator.

 

But this is a discussion for another time and place, if you want to open a topic that suggests a way to reach non-forum players, by all means, but until then I think the argument of "Well they aren't here but we have to cater to them" should reside with TJ, and with TJ alone.

Edited July 20, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Mondat]

Only because I mentioned "I was a newbie and could get old CB holiday adults (even for free), it was rather nice." in one sentence of my whole post doesn't mean I want adult trading on DC or that I want to argue about it here.

Secondly, I recommend people to read the first sentence from my last post before going on about regretting decisions etc.*shakes head*

I quote:

While I personally would not mind freezing staying permanent, I'd be fine with any kind of unfreezing method just for the sake of my friends who are older players and who used "Freeze" for 1 of their 2 CB holidays and for myself because I do not know what the future brings.

 

Then, as we do have scroll limits (max limit 21) I do not see much harm being done if we could use 'unfreeze' the same way as 'freeze' and let them grow up on our scrolls - when they take up eggs/unfrozen hatchling scroll space - or trade them. I´d see it as a legitimate way of going around the scroll limits (I could have created 10 Zombies on Halloween, I also went around the 'kill' limit by killing 5 dragons 2 weeks before Halloween) which no one is forced to do, better than creating multiple scrolls in my opinion.

 

Regarding trading: I fail to see why only CB prize owners would benefit from it? Let´s say you own a few frozen CB Halloweenies but you cannot catch rares in the cave due to lack of time/motivation. Then there´s a person who can get rares in the cave but who doesn´t have these Halloweenies because at that time, they hadn´t started to play DC yet. You unfreeze your Weenies and trade them for rares from the cave - both are happy.

 

Apart from that, it doesn´t make sense to me rp-wise to be able to freeze within a limit but "as soon as possible within 2 weeks" but to undo each spell I`d have to rest a year, needless to mention the instant-turning-to-adult thing after lifting the spell. If I put a spell on my kitten when it was 12 weeks old and lifted the spell - stop the stop of growth, you can say - it would still have to grow up into an adult cat & taking months, unless I use a spell "growth" or something.

 

[And I am out of here. I do not post to have other forum users change their opinions, I voice my opinion so TJ knows there are people who think different. A pity that not many other people post their opinions in the suggestion threads. But it amuses me that I find myself agreeing with danicast.]

[Ayelldee]

I'd like to be able to unfreeze dragons I froze in a fit idiotish. I didn't bother to read the whole rest of the thread to see the 'conditions' though, especially since it seemed to cause another ruckus.

[DragonLady86]

I talk to a lot of people who are not member in this forum because I'm a member in another forum where there are several players. The main reason why they don't come here it's because they don't believe that there is space for them. This is the kind of thing that needs constructively discussed in forum feedback or via PM with TJ or a moderator.  But TJ comes here and follow the discussion so I'm posting my ideas to TJ, not to the other users. I know by experience that it's very possible that several of the users who are discussing this subject with me will abandon their  scrolls with time and the forum, so I'm not worried about that. I'm worried in express my opinions to get to the person who really have power to change things: TJ.

Am I the only person who regularly uses the forum and doesn't hide their scroll that hasn't been view bombed? o.O

 

/on topic: Not all of the dragons I would like unfreeze are CB's and the only reason I want to unfreeze the CB holidays is because the offspring of my CB's grow up but if I breed the other adults, they are often left to die even though I see people looking for ANY egg of that type and it makes me sad. I'm not looking for trade fodder, I dump them to the AP every year.

the non-CB's I want to unfreeze are ones with nice lineages that I would like to continue now that I actually pay attention to that. And any potential offspring of those will likely stay on my scroll since I want to do that for me.

 

I've been on this site for since March of 2009. (Started just a mere week before the Lagmonster hit) I'm still here, because I've never been bored, there is always plenty of things to do, and always at my own pace. The only reason I can see to not be here this time next year, is if DC suddenly up's and shuts down. So, yes, all the hatchlings I want to unfreeze are WELL over a year old.

 

Mostly because all the freezing I've done more recently is for collecting the full sprite set of each new dragon, so most of them are 2gens of my adults. I haven't had any "Carp that's not the one I wanted to freeze" in awhile, (Now I will I'm sure) but I've had plenty in the past, and can see waiting to fix it should the dragon be hard to replace. If it's hare to replace, it may take months, to a year anyway. Otherwise, I'll just get another one and have a new recruit for my hatchling army unexpectedly. Which sums up my reasoning for why I'm okay with the one year wait.

 

 

Did we ever reach a consensus on growing up instantly vs. being locked to the scroll for however many days needed to grow up? I still prefer the former, but the latter could certainly be a possible reason for a shorter time period for unfreezing. If you still have to raise it anyway, you are not really getting out of it by freezing and unfreezing sometime later.

Edited July 20, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[annageckos]

It's better not to implement and wait till we have more people who agree that the feature should be useful than to implement something that it's completely useless.

It's my opinion. We should be focused in improve the game and not make it worst.

I would not be completely useless with a one year wait. I can't see how it would make the game worse at all. Any way of unfreezing would improve the game, IMO. Most the dragons I would want to unfreeze are well over a year, so as it currently stands I would be able to unfreeze them as soon as the feature is added. How would that be useless? One year seems reasonable to me. One year from the time you freeze the hatchling. It's fair and would add to the game.

[CNR4806]

Am I the only person who regularly uses the forum and doesn't hide their scroll that hasn't been view bombed? o.O

I'm pretty sure I'm very active on the forum, making some of the more (if not the most) controversial posts in S/R and most likely disliked or hated by quite a lot of people. I show my scroll very visibly and yet haven't been bombed so far.

 

Perhaps I just don't have things that worth bombing.

 

 

But back on topic: I think it has been illustrated in the past that both "bu-bu-bu-bu-but there are off-forum people supporting/opposing <insert idea>" and "you're the only one that seem to be for/against <insert idea>" are not really valid points. TJ has stated in the past that few of the DC users use the forum, and even fewer pay attention to S/R; this puts the former right into Captain Obvious territory and makes the latter just plain incorrect.

 

And danicast, you need to be aware that what this idea is for. Unfreezing, as per this suggestion's goal, is to implement an option to allow users to regret their decision of freezing something, yet maintaining some weight for the decision of freezing and preventing abuse at the same tine. Making DC a fast-paced game by intentionally creating a loophole abuse to the scroll limits is absolutely not what this thread is pursuing.

Edited July 20, 2014 by CNR4806

[danicast]

And danicast, you need to be aware that what this idea is for. Unfreezing, as per this suggestion's goal, is to implement an option to allow users to regret their decision of freezing something, yet maintaining some weight for the decision of freezing and preventing abuse at the same tine. Making DC a fast-paced game by intentionally creating a loophole abuse to the scroll limits is absolutely not what this thread is pursuing.

This is not what I am suggesting. I'm suggesting to implement a feature that will bring improvement to the game and not what you said. You are misinterpreting everything that I already posted.

It's not abusive and not a loophole if it only can be used after 90 days. The only difference between what I suggested and the other suggestions is the time period to wait to unfreeze. 90 days doesn't create a loophole.

Edited July 20, 2014 by danicast

[olympe]

What we - meaning most of the people in favor of this suggestion who also agreed on the 1-year waiting period - are trying to accomplish is that people can unfreeze hatchlings they have frozen a long time ago. This especially affects people who froze now discontinued breeds and old CB holidays, but also people who didn't know they froze rare dragons, dragons of special lineages or who simply misclicked on the wrong hatchie to freeze.

 

What we're trying to prevent are repercussions on the trade market as well as people abusing the unfreezing feature to boost their scrolls - which is what you're rooting for. In order to do so, we pretty much agreed on a time limit of one year before a hatchling can be unfrozen.

 

However, the more I think about it, I'd rather see a very severe limit of unfreezes instead of a time limit.

 

With that, we can still unfreeze without limit, as long as the hatchlings are old. Instead, I'd much rather see a 1 unfreeze / month limit without any waiting period.

 

Yes, people could still unfreeze 12 extra holiday hatchlings over the course of each year. But it's still less than 16 Christmas hatchlings, 16 Valentine hatchlings and 16 Halloween hatchlings per year. Plus, it would be pretty fast-paced and allow for the correction of freezing errors (like cases of mistaken identity) pretty much at once (if you haven't used up any unfreezes in the same month).

[danicast]

What we - meaning most of the people in favor of this suggestion who also agreed on the 1-year waiting period - are trying to accomplish is that people can unfreeze hatchlings they have frozen a long time ago. This especially affects people who froze now discontinued breeds and old CB holidays, but also people who didn't know they froze rare dragons, dragons of special lineages or who simply misclicked on the wrong hatchie to freeze.

 

What we're trying to prevent are repercussions on the trade market as well as people abusing the unfreezing feature to boost their scrolls - which is what you're rooting for. In order to do so, we pretty much agreed on a time limit of one year before a hatchling can be unfrozen.

 

However, the more I think about it, I'd rather see a very severe limit of unfreezes instead of a time limit.

 

With that, we can still unfreeze without limit, as long as the hatchlings are old. Instead, I'd much rather see a 1 unfreeze / month limit without any waiting period.

 

Yes, people could still unfreeze 12 extra holiday hatchlings over the course of each year. But it's still less than 16 Christmas hatchlings, 16 Valentine hatchlings and 16 Halloween hatchlings per year. Plus, it would be pretty fast-paced and allow for the correction of freezing errors (like cases of mistaken identity) pretty much at once (if you haven't used up any unfreezes in the same month).

Yes, this is a suggestion that I can agree with, we just need to establish the quantities of dragons that can be unfrozen.

But 1 per month still looks pretty much strict to me. Maybe 3 a month? It's a number that will not affect the game balance and will make people happy.

We'll still need to make the hatchies locked to the scroll so they can't be traded.

[olympe]

Since the feature of instant adults has been the consensus thus far, I didn't feel it necessary to rehash that argument, to be honest. I just took it as a given.

 

However, the limit I suggested is meant to be strict. Very strict. Enough to allow for undoing grievous mistakes in an almost timely manner - over the course of half a year, maybe a whole year.

 

Also, please consider that an unfreeze option isn't meant to allow people to change their minds frequently regarding the frozeness of a hatchie.

[Ha-Ki]

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, just a couple of the last pages, so sorry if my post doesn't seem to make sense or refers to things that have already been answered/explained.

 

Actually I don't see how the instant-adult thing makes sense - how can a hatchie instantly become an adult, if it doesn't have the views needed to grow up? Collecting views to grow your eggs and hatchies is what this game is about in the first place, so I don't think unfreezing should make it possible to get around such an essential game mechanic. Locking the hatchie to the scroll and letting it continue to collect views and to grow is more logical in my opinion.

 

Also I don't understand the argument how unfreezing would allow people to get more cb Halloweens, they only drop for one day, if I remember correctly? So to get more you have to trade for the extra ones once yours have hatched, which is already possible. I have 9 cb graves, because I managed to trade for two hatchies a couple of days after Halloween.

 

So you can already get 21 cb Halloweens fairly easily if you have a gold trophy (7 hatched yourself, trading for 14 hatchies to lock you with 21 hatchies), even more if you find people who agree to hold the eggs until they are ER and trade you the hatchies once your first batch grew up. No unfreezing is needed for that - just really good trade fodder and the ability to coordinate that many trades (and IOU's) at once. A possible freeze-unfreeze-option would make the coordination part slightly easier, but still you'd have to trade for so many Halloweens first.

 

Maybe I just don't get it, but I really don't understand that possibility of additional abuse which was discussed here

 

(I still think that freezing should be permanent, but in case it's implemented those are my thoughta about it)

 

 

tl;dr 1: instant-adults make no sense because collecting views to make things grow is an essential game mechanic that should be kept

tl;dr 2: getting around scroll limits for cb Halloweens is possible without unfreeze already, I don't see the additional abuse with unfreeze

 

Edit: Bolded the part about locking the hatchie to the scroll it's on, as it seems to be overlooked easily

Edited July 20, 2014 by Ha-Ki

[edwardelricfreak]

Actually I don't see how the instant-adult thing makes sense - how can a hatchie instantly become an adult, if it doesn't have the views needed to grow up? Collecting views to grow your eggs and hatchies is what this game is about in the first place, so I don't think unfreezing should make it possible to get around such an essential game mechanic. Locking the hatchie to the scroll and letting it continue to collect views and to grow is more logical in my opinion.

Personally I'm okay with this, too, as I think they would still need views as well.

[DragonLady86]

<snip>

 

 

tl;dr 1: instant-adults make no sense because collecting views to make things grow is an essential game mechanic that should be kept

tl;dr 2: getting around scroll limits for cb Halloweens is possible without unfreeze already, I don't see the additional abuse with unfreeze

Depends on how old the frozen hatchling is, both adults AND frozen used to continue to gain views, but was stopped because the number of dragons in the system got to be too large. Also, I have adults on my scroll with far less views than most of my hatchlings.

 

Reasons why I support the instant adult over having to raise the hatchlings:

1. the system knows the timer for those hatchlings is long over. I've had enough dead dragons come back to life instead of becoming zombies at Halloween to know that unless it was a growing hatchling that you just killed, it glitches the timer then 'fixes" it about half hour to an hour later and the hatchling dies if you don't freeze it. Because it's past its 7 day timer. I assume the system coding would do the same to older frozen hatchlings.

 

and 2. I honestly, just don't want to see new help posts every week "Why can't I trade my hatchlings?" If they grow up instantly, everyone knows you can't trade adults so, it won't be an issue.

 

 

and lol, I said the same thing about Halloweens.