Unfreezing

[olympe]

Besides, the original thread was about merely unfreezing holidays - and TJ told us that there wouldn't be any exceptions for any kind of breed, but that we were free to discuss a general unfreezing option.

 

And I think he's right. First of all, a general amnesty unfreezing option is easier to understand (and thus, to explain) than an unfreezing option for holiday hatchlings only. Second, this kind of amnesty for regretted actions to holiday dragons would open up several cans of worms - people might want to be able to un-release previously released holidays or un-kill killed holidays. Whichever they did to get one holiday spot on their scroll open again. And the reasoning would be the same. The other thing people might want to do - with the same kind of reasoning ("But the rules changed!") is unfreezing BP and frill hatchlings. And so on.

 

That's kind of why I couldn't support the original suggestion (unfreezing for holidays only), but wholeheartedly support this one. And I have absolutely no stake in this as I don't freeze.

[MessengerDragon]

Besides, the original thread was about merely unfreezing holidays - and TJ told us that there wouldn't be any exceptions for any kind of breed, but that we were free to discuss a general unfreezing option.

 

And I think he's right. First of all, a general amnesty unfreezing option is easier to understand (and thus, to explain) than an unfreezing option for holiday hatchlings only. Second, this kind of amnesty for regretted actions to holiday dragons would open up several cans of worms - people might want to be able to un-release previously released holidays or un-kill killed holidays. Whichever they did to get one holiday spot on their scroll open again. And the reasoning would be the same. The other thing people might want to do - with the same kind of reasoning ("But the rules changed!") is unfreezing BP and frill hatchlings. And so on.

 

That's kind of why I couldn't support the original suggestion (unfreezing for holidays only), but wholeheartedly support this one. And I have absolutely no stake in this as I don't freeze.

I mostly agree with this. (though I don't freeze much myself)

[xeyla]

Back in the old days if you made a zombie, you were forever stuck with it. That's changed. People who had a zombie from before that date are allowed to get rid of those older zombies. Back in the old days zombies took up a kill slot so if you killed 5 you'd never get to use that action again. But that's changed and they don't do that anymore. Back in the old days, the limit was 4 eggs. But that's changed with trophies.

 

Limits are constantly changing around here, and I don't see why freezing is magically different than any of those other changes that have improved the game.

 

This is the reason I want to unfreeze my little Rosebud. It's the only thing I want to unfreeze. Everything else on my scroll can stay a baby. I don't think it's fair that people who created a zombie can now get rid of them when I WANT to keep my Rosebud, but it can't grow up since TJ changed the limits. I'd like to undo my action, since the Zombie-dislikers can undo their actions now.

[Sundew]

After watching this thread for a while, my attitude towards unfreezing has turned from a resounding "NO" to an unenthusiastic "yes". Things in DC do change, and freezing maybe shouldn't be an exception...? Naming used to be permanent, and it isn't anymore. Biomes, Teleport, Expunge, lots of new things have been added... so I think that perhaps unfreezing as a BSA would be neat? Since it's a magical spell, maybe a Black could have the power to unfreeze once a year--honestly I think a BSA sounds like the best way to implement such a feature, simply for its resemblance to Expunge and the Killing/Reviving actions. It would have to have a very long cooldown, though.

 

It wouldn't be a feature I'd use frequently--I can only think of one dragon I'd like to unfreeze--but then the question of taking advantage of the feature should be addressed. I know it's already been brought up, so I'll just say that IMO the best option is to start the hatchie over at 7 days and lock it to your scroll until it grows up. This would avoid insta-adulting and trading.

 

However, I do think that unfrozen dragons should definitely be able to breed. Otherwise I don't see much use in this feature; I definitely wouldn't unfreeze anyone if I wouldn't be able to breed them. An alternative would be allowing them to breed, just make it impossible for them to produce an egg of their own species...? And for those who could produce hybrids, they'd only be able to produce the mate's species--not the hybrid. The magical spell must hinder their development in some way. I'm imagining they'd be able to accept DNA from a mate but be unable to contribute their own to the offspring.

 

Just my two cents, I don't care largely about whether or not this is implemented, but it is a neat idea and I've warmed up to it a lot since first seeing this topic.

[kerrikins]

Why did you freeze it in the first place, then? This is what I don't understand. And I say this as someone who froze a cb Val '09 - I ended up releasing it, but I'd feel the same way if I still had it. I made a decision, I have to abide by it. Pretty simple.

 

Idk, I guess I just feel like a game ceases being a game and challenging at all if we can just undo our decisions all the time. That's partly why I'm against it for holidays, because I think it gives an unfair advantage to those who froze cb holidays and now want them back just because the limits have increased.

[Sundew]

Why did you freeze it in the first place, then? This is what I don't understand. And I say this as someone who froze a cb Val '09 - I ended up releasing it, but I'd feel the same way if I still had it. I made a decision, I have to abide by it. Pretty simple.

 

Idk, I guess I just feel like a game ceases being a game and challenging at all if we can just undo our decisions all the time. That's partly why I'm against it for holidays, because I think it gives an unfair advantage to those who froze cb holidays and now want them back just because the limits have increased.

I froze a CB Ribbon Dancer in '10 only a few months after I joined DC. I didn't know how much I would have valued it, especially since it was my only CB of that breed. For me, this isn't a case of the holiday limits increasing... as a matter of fact, I was absent for several months from DC and did not know about the new holiday limits until I looked at this thread. I'd have liked to have that guy unfrozen whether or not the limits changed.

 

I don't think this would make the game much less difficult... in fact it would be another challenge to consider. There are still plenty of challenges, many of them becoming more difficult as the Cave changes. All this is doing is opening up the possibility of more lineages. I usually consider very carefully who I freeze, and I would decide who I'd unfreeze the same way.

 

I don't see how it's an unfair advantage. If you don't have a CB holiday of a certain breed, you never will. But if we were allowed to unfreeze and breed them, we would give away more 2nd gen holidays.

I really don't understand how it's an unfair advantage. Is there a post where it's explained somewhere? I'm just having difficulty understanding that point of view, so if someone could explain it that would be great.

[edwardelricfreak]

However, I do think that unfrozen dragons should definitely be able to breed. Otherwise I don't see much use in this feature; I definitely wouldn't unfreeze anyone if I wouldn't be able to breed them. An alternative would be allowing them to breed, just make it impossible for them to produce an egg of their own species...? And for those who could produce hybrids, they'd only be able to produce the mate's species--not the hybrid. The magical spell must hinder their development in some way. I'm imagining they'd be able to accept DNA from a mate but be unable to contribute their own to the offspring.

So, I think I know what you're referring to, but I think you misunderstood it. With unfreezing, it's not that the adult *can't* breed EVER, it's that they can't breed *right after they're unfrozen*. Basically it acts like they just bred so they're on cooldown for a week before they CAN breed.

[Sundew]

So, I think I know what you're referring to, but I think you misunderstood it. With unfreezing, it's not that the adult *can't* breed EVER, it's that they can't breed *right after they're unfrozen*. Basically it acts like they just bred so they're on cooldown for a week before they CAN breed.

Ah, then I did misunderstand it. That sounds fine, then. Thank you for explaining.

[edwardelricfreak]

Why did you freeze it in the first place, then? This is what I don't understand. And I say this as someone who froze a cb Val '09 - I ended up releasing it, but I'd feel the same way if I still had it. I made a decision, I have to abide by it. Pretty simple.

 

Idk, I guess I just feel like a game ceases being a game and challenging at all if we can just undo our decisions all the time. That's partly why I'm against it for holidays, because I think it gives an unfair advantage to those who froze cb holidays and now want them back just because the limits have increased.

Because no one did it thinking they'd regret it later, because they didn't know there would even be the possibility of getting more holidays to be able to freeze, or in my case, because I made a mistake honestly thinking I still needed X frozen hatchling for my collection without realizing I already had one (or the hatchling gendered wrong and I didn't notice).

 

Who said a game had to be challenging...? Who said THIS game had to be challenging? I like this game because it's relatively *easy* and peaceful, save for things like trying to grab rarer eggs or viewbombers. It's a game I can walk away from and come back and not have to worry about much (except names I guess but I don't think I'm super attached to most of them anyway. Well, apart from "bUhFFy the Vampire Slayer" I suppose). If I want a challenging game I can go play something else like Dark Souls or whatever.

Edited October 4, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[KageSora]

Why did you freeze it in the first place, then? This is what I don't understand. And I say this as someone who froze a cb Val '09 - I ended up releasing it, but I'd feel the same way if I still had it. I made a decision, I have to abide by it. Pretty simple.

 

Idk, I guess I just feel like a game ceases being a game and challenging at all if we can just undo our decisions all the time. That's partly why I'm against it for holidays, because I think it gives an unfair advantage to those who froze cb holidays and now want them back just because the limits have increased.

Simple--because I made the best choice I could under the circumstances at the time. At the time, there was a 0% indication that there was even a chance that it might someday be slightly even remotely possible to ever have more than 2 of anything besides a Halloween dragon. Therefore, I would have either had to freeze it when I got it, or had to release an adult down the line in order to freeze to have that hatchling. Since I have scroll goals that include having as many of the sprites as possilble.

 

By the reasoning of "you made a choice, stick to it" then all zombies made before Expunge should be locked to the scroll--since you made the choice at the time to get it, you should stick to it. All names given before the introduction of renaming/removing names should be locked to the dragon. Again, because they made their choice they should stick to it.

 

I don't play DC for the challenge. DC has, historically, been a relatively unchallenging game. It's a simple game you can play at your own pace with very few overall restrictions or limitations. I like DC because I don't have to worry about my choices all the time. I find that when a game forces me to put too much consideration into my choices that the game itself becomes a chore.

 

I do enough "if I make this choice what will happen, what if I did that instead, or what about that other thing, how will this forever impact me" in my everyday life. I don't need to be faced with that constantly in games, which I play as a relaxing escape from life. If I want a game where my choices aren't able to be gone back on, I'll pick it up specifically for that reason. I didn't come to DC because I was amazed by how my decisions would forever impact my gameplay. I came because "oooh pretty pixel dragons!" And that's why I stay.

 

I think that perhaps unfreezing as a BSA would be neat? Since it's a magical spell, maybe a Black could have the power to unfreeze once a year--honestly I think a BSA sounds like the best way to implement such a feature, simply for its resemblance to Expunge and the Killing/Reviving actions. It would have to have a very long cooldown, though.

I disagree--freezing is an action done by the user via a spell we perform ourselves, so I would imagine freezing should be undone by the user.

 

As for zombies being caused by us but needing a BSA to be undone... Keep in mind a zombie is NOT the sole goal of "revive". The goal is to bring the dead dragon back to life. A zombie is more what happens when the magic goes wrong, and it isn't properly resurrected. So I can see why you'd need a BSA--some help from a dragon--to "fix" the problem and put the dragon to rest properly.

[DragonLady86]

Why did I freeze X hatchling that I now would like to unfreeze?

 

Hmm, well holidays, I wanted as many different sprites as possible, so I had an adult and a hatchling of each. Now the limits have been lifted, but anything with a messy lineage is unwanted and I've even seen some of my babies die because of it. I'd rather unfreeze the CB and replace the hatchlings with a messy longer gen than see my bred babies die despite so many players not being able to even find that type. So, for me, it's about sending new holidays to the AP that people will actually want/take care of.

 

 

Other hatchlings, because I do have some that are not holidays: When I started I didn't pay attention to lineages or really know what I was doing. I froze a lot of dragons because I like the hatchling sprites. But now, years later, looking through some of them, I find really cool lineages that I could have done something with had I known about that when I first started. And I would like to do so, given the chance.

[Fuzzbucket]

By the reasoning of "you made a choice, stick to it" then all zombies made before Expunge should be locked to the scroll--since you made the choice at the time to get it, you should stick to it. All names given before the introduction of renaming/removing names should be locked to the dragon. Again, because they made their choice they should stick to it.

THIS. This is at the crux of the whole thing. If you are against unfreeze for "you made a decision" reasons - then even if it happens you shouldn't unfreeze, OR change names prior to renaming, or expunge zombies, or trade, or, indeed, influence, because that used not to be available either.

 

Change happens. It has consequences. Those consequences can bring about - other changes. Do you not take medications which didn't exist when you were a kid and then get better where you would otherwise have died; use sunscreen because now we KNOW that sunburn can lead to cancer but we didn't way back when we chose to get as dark a tan as fast as we could ?

 

The world moves on and so does DC.

[bbik]

Bump. Still thinking this would be a nice option to have, for any number of reasons previously stated.

[Lady Artemis]

I think this is a very well thought-out proposal, with minimal consequences if implimented in-cave. I would benefit from this action, as would many others (I assume).

[amthystfire]

I personally did a lot of dumb stuff the first month or so that I was on DC, so, while I was never really inclined to freeze hatchlings in the first place(and I think I only have 6-7 now at 1500 total dragons). Had I been, I might want a few unfrozen now. Especially had I started near a holiday (I started near my birthday, late spring) I don't really see this getting a whole bunch of use, but as a story mechanic I find it no less plausible than freezing.

[ahreada]

I would love to see at as a New Year Day option, just like zombie at Halloween.

[DragonLady86]

I would love to see at as a New Year Day option, just like zombie at Halloween.

Or we could stick with the proposal of a scroll action, much like Freeze itself. Once a year, would be very frustrating for those of us that would actually use this. And even if we did go with once a year, why that day specifically? Being yet another holiday many people will be busy that day and may not be able to get on the site.

[ahreada]

And even if we did go with once a year, why that day specifically?

 

I was going with New Year=changes

[zaverxi]

I don't think it should be a once a year thing. But it should definitely be a thing. I read the list of all the suggestions, and they all make perfect sense. Or if it is a once a year thing, have it RESET on NYE, rather than only being able to happen on NYE. You can unfreeze an egg any day in 2015, but you have to wait until 2016 to unfreeze another? Maybe.

 

But anyway, I liked the suggestions I saw, and here's why:

 

Have the hatchling frozen for over one year: Check. This is good because it gets around that whole 'freeze to get a free hatchling spot!' dealio. Abuse-prevention. If people have to wait a year to unfreeze, it'll make them think twice.

 

Have it happen only once a month: Check. If it's such a powerful spell, maybe you need to collect a lot of mana to use it, to tie it in with the new storyline. Given how they say certain mana is rare, perhaps a bunch of life mana would need to be accumulated. And given how that'd mean a whole BUNCH of magicians would want the mana itself, that would make it scarce. A month to collect enough makes sense from an RP standpoint.

 

Can only use it if you have a hatchling slot open: Check. If you try to unfreeze when you are scroll locked, rather than going to the AP, the hatchling runs away to the wilderness? An autorelease.

 

Hatchlings immediately grow up: Check. Although I did see a modification on that which said S1 hatchlings become S2 hatchlings and can be refrozen, that makes sense too. But S2 hatchlings instagrowing, I am all for that.

 

Hatchlings are untradeable when unfrozen: CHECK. If you really want them unfrozen, they should by all rights stay on your scroll. No trading CB old pinks, it'd be absolutely ridiculous. Even more so than CB frills since there's that talk about bringing them back. Locking them to your scroll would prevent people from extorting others more than they already do. ;p

 

Percentage failure for freezing: Check. If it was a free action, no consequences, people would do it left and right without any thought. But if there was a slight chance the hatchling would run away to the wild, that might make people hesitate a bit. Just like with making zombies, except instead of dying they'd be released. Not as high of a percentage though, just a chance. It might make people not unfreeze, or people would risk it. I know people use Earthquake despite the risk of eggs dying or running away after hatching, and the same with vampires biting eggs. Plus ND experiments.

 

A partial solution would be to only make holidays unfreezable, since that is probably what 90% of people want to unfreeze. I know I regret freezing one of my CB arsanis, I only did so because people were talking about how awesome it is to get sprite completion and I am weak.

 

Perhaps if that's the case, make them unfreezable during the week of breeding, but make them unbreedable as if they were regular hatchlings. I know eggs I caught in 2014 weren't able to be bred in that holiday week of breeding even if they became adults before it ended. So even if you are able to unfreeze holidays you'd still have to wait a year before you could use them to breed more holidays.

 

I have a couple others I wouldn't mind unfreezing as well however, but if it was just holidays I'd be satisfied.

[DragonLady86]

I do not want a chance of the hatchling running away. If it's growing up instantly there is no need for a hatchling spot. Also, Freeze does not have a failure rate so I don't see why unfreeze should. But if it must, then it should simply be "no effect" not something that causes a potentially irreplaceable dragon to be lost.

 

And no, the solution of only holidays is NOT a viable option because the thread that started this discussion wanted that and TJ said it has to apply to all frozen or none at all.

Edited January 8, 2015 by DragonLady86

[cyradis4]

Holiday only unfreezing was already nixed.

 

As for limits on unfreezing, the year is a biggie (though making it 375 days would be my favorite, a year and 10 days to prevent any sort of abuse at Holiday time with the timing), that's a LONG time. The other is the freezing limits. After all, after the initial rush of unfrozens, you'd have to freeze each new additional dragon... and then wait a full year before you can unfreeze it. You can only freeze 16 dragons every 2 weeks. So by default... You can only unfreeze an *average* of 16 dragons every two weeks.

 

If there's a limit (other than the 1 year, which I fully support), I'd feel best if it was the same as the freezing limit: 16 every two weeks.

 

I just don't get why people feel that the 1+ year isn't enough of a limit on unfreezing. I mean, you have to have frozen something before you can unfreeze it! Its not like this will be rampantly abused because of how long you have to wait to be able to unfreeze, particularly if its the 1 year + some days.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[lightningsky]

I can't believe I've never replied to this. I thought I did...ANYWAYS

 

I used to think that ever since the Holiday limit has been lifted that people who froze their hatchies should have to stick to their original choice...and have them stay frozen.

 

WELL honestly, since I started to collect frozens, I disagree with what I originally thought.

 

If frozens, when defrosted, grew up IMMEDIATELY, that would be the only way that I could agree with this suggestion. I also agree with the defrosting action being used ONLY when a full year has passed since the frozen date. I feel like there would be no way for anyone to cheat the system with those two rules in place, and that the unfreezing action would only be used to correct a mistake or if they change their playstyle. ^^

[Zeditha]

I know this has been done before, but I couldn't find any of the old threads despite searching through the last few pages of the forum and using the keyword search. Plus, I have a new idea anyway.

 

So basically, this is a Freeze reset. It is an action that can be used by/on frozen hatchlings, has no fail rate (or a very low one) and has these two simple limits:

 

- it can only be used two weeks after hatchling has been frozen

- it makes the hatchling grow instantly to adulthood.

 

Basically the only reason for not having an unfreeze is abuse of it - waiting ages to trade, or growing hatchlings instantly. Since those are the two main ones, there's a simple rule preventing each.

 

So, thoughts?

[danicast]

An unfreeze action that can only be used two weeks after freezing the hatchling is completely useless. Most people who wants to unfreeze hatchies have their hatchies frozen for years.

[FoxintheBox4]

↑ Agreed.

 

I saw some unfreeze suggestions, one suggested to have over a year long cooldown to use unfreeze again ~ ☺

I personaly hope one day we get the unfreeze option, but to use it on hatchlings only frozen within 2 weeks not so much... I have a CB Wrapping Wing frozen as a hatchling - I was pretty much a newbie back then not knowing the value of CB rares/holidays and I want it unfrozen as soon as the opportunity comes.

Edited May 22, 2015 by WoLfgIrLyS