Unfreezing

[Fuzzbucket]

Whatever else, nothing should be unfreezable till it is 53 weeks old. To deal with the Holiday thing.

 

 

[danicast]

Whatever else, nothing should be unfreezable till it is 53 weeks old. To deal with the Holiday thing.

I disagree with this too. The only holiday dragon that you can get more than 2 CB at once is the halloween, all the other holidays are 2 cb per scroll, so freeze/unfreeze is useless in these cases. If a person wants to collect 10 bred holidays and freeze (the limit for 2 weeks) and then unfreeze 2 weeks later, what is the problem? It's not possible to freeze 100 holidays at once, you already have limitations for freezing. I really don't see a problem if unfreeze would be made to work as the freeze works. None of the holiday events lasts more than some days.

Edited July 16, 2014 by danicast

[Fuzzbucket]

No - I realise that - but if everyone who has CB holidays from way back suddenly unfreezes them the trade threads will become a nightmare. That is the reason for having them grow up INSTANTLY so that at least they cannot be traded as CB hatchies.

 

This isn't "restricting the way others play" by the way - this suggestion is about REMOVING or changing an existing restriction. It is about changing something that already exists here. I would take your point about people trying

to control other people's games all the time.

if people were suggesting that an ability we had was to be taken away (say if someone said we could no longer freeze anything !) - but not the other way around. Getting rid of game restrictions is a whole different ball game.

 

When we freeze - even right up to today ! - we are warned that the action is irreversible. We KNOW that when we do it. Now if we all had a load of frozens and the rules suddenly changed and they all turned into adults, THAT would be annoying... But if something in the game is to be changed because some players have asked for it - given that a lot of people don't want it changed (I'm actually one who doesn't care either way) it is only fair for everyone to be able to discuss it first.

Edited July 16, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[danicast]

No - I realise that - but if everyone who has CB holidays from way back suddenly unfreezes them the trade threads will become a nightmare. That is the reason for having them grow up INSTANTLY so that at least they cannot be traded as CB hatchies.

 

This isn't "restricting the way others play" by the way - this suggestion is about REMOVING or changing an existing restriction. It is about changing something that already exists here. I would take your point about people trying

 

if people were suggesting that an ability we had was to be taken away (say if someone said we could no longer freeze anything !) - but not the other way around. Getting rid of game restrictions is a whole different ball game.

 

When we freeze - even right up to today ! - we are warned that the action is irreversible. We KNOW that when we do it. Now if we all had a load of frozens and the rules suddenly changed and they all turned into adults, THAT would be annoying... But if something in the game is to be changed because some players have asked for it - given that a lot of people don't want it changed (I'm actually one who doesn't care either way) it is only fair for everyone to be able to discuss it first.

I didn't suggest that the hatchies will remain as hatchies, actually. I suggested - but I don't remember if was in this thread or the other one - as many others that as soon as someone unfreeze the hatchie, the hatchie become adult (I think is very practical). Considering the way freeze always worked and considering that only last year the limit of bred holidays was changed I doubt that there are many frozen CB holiday hatchies around. Not enough to unbalance the game, for sure. So I don't see the problem to allow these people to unfreeeze these hatchies, 10 per 2 weeks. The quantity is small and do not cause big impact. It's way worse with the BSA where a person can have 100 cassares to unfreeze as many hatchies as they want, even if once a year. Unfreeze as an action is much more easy to limit and keep reasonable than as a BSA.

So if a person freezes 10 hatchies - and then the person must wait 15 days to do it again - and then unfreeze the same 10 hatchies - and then the person must wait 15 days again - this will not cause big problems to the game. If you are so concerned about the time, only allow people to unfreeze hatchies frozen after a month. But I think the whole "wait one year" is too punitive to people who only freeze hatchies because they want to keep the sprites on their scrolls. I don't believe in rules that punish good people, these kind of rules ruins a good game.

[KageSora]

I think there might be more frozen CB's than you'd assume, though.

 

A lot of us froze a CB because we were forced to chose between two adults or getting as close to our goals of scroll completion (however we set those goals) as possible by sacrificing an adult to freeze--and we opted to freeze.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think there might be more frozen CB's than you'd assume, though.

 

A lot of us froze a CB because we were forced to chose between two adults or getting as close to our goals of scroll completion (however we set those goals) as possible by sacrificing an adult to freeze--and we opted to freeze.

Yes. I am sure there are a LOT. And we did freeze those dragons we have frozen knowing it was for ever.

 

It is interesting - in terms of how the holidays might affect all this - that all the huge interest in unfreezing really took off as soon as the holiday limits came off.... That tells you something, I think.

[edwardelricfreak]

I'm against the waiting. People who want to unfreeze already waited. From the moment that the action would be implemented it should be used as freeze is, the waiting makes no sense.

This whole game is about waiting.

[HeatherMarie]

Some people have waited 3+ years to finally acquire a GoN. Some people have spent months/years trying for a Neglected. Some people have spent years building up the perfect lineages.

 

Yes, this game *is* partially about waiting. So I don't see anything wrong with an unfreeze-wait, whatever the actual time may be.

[Fuzzbucket]

Some people have waited 3+ years to finally acquire a GoN. Some people have spent months/years trying for a Neglected. Some people have spent years building up the perfect lineages.

 

Yes, this game *is* partially about waiting. So I don't see anything wrong with an unfreeze-wait, whatever the actual time may be.

This. I am one of the 3 years for my first GoN group. And as for lineage work - I am one of those with seasonal projects that lost an entire year when the winters vanished from the earth... and don't even mention nebulas...

 

Almost everything being suggested at the moment seems to be aimed at making things super-easy or to cater for the impatient. That depresses me. There's nothing wrong with patience and a little effort.

[danicast]

Some people have waited 3+ years to finally acquire a GoN. Some people have spent months/years trying for a Neglected. Some people have spent years building up the perfect lineages.

 

Yes, this game *is* partially about waiting. So I don't see anything wrong with an unfreeze-wait, whatever the actual time may be.

Well, this game doesn't work like this for me. I never wanted a Gon because I don't like the dragon design and didn't see a purpose in have it just because it's rare - I don't play for rares. Then TJ update the Gon and released the avatars and all of sudden I had a reason to have a Gon: because of the beautiful avatars. I went to the cave and caught a couple of blusangs and coppers and traded for avatars because I was dying to have some and collected some trios (cause I had none) and summoned a Gon. I was successful in my second try.

Something similar happened when I wanted my first shimmer. It took me just a month to get one. I collect 5th/6th gens because they are my favorites but I also have some 4th gens. Again, I hunted some dragons to make some trades and get the shimmers that I wanted but most of them I got as gifts from friends.

So no, I don't play "waiting game", I play hunt what you want and raise it. And I like it. So I'm against to have to wait more than a couple of weeks to unfreeze something. That's not how the game works for me. It's an action game for me, strategy and action and not a waiting game.

Edited July 17, 2014 by danicast

[edwardelricfreak]

We don't mean how you see the game. We're telling you that it is a waiting game. In fact, the time limits are the only thing sometimes that act as any kind of restriction, that and rejections. You still have to wait to raise eggs/hatchlings, wait till you can find the eggs in the biomes/AP that you want, wait until someone offers on your trade, wait for breeding/killing/freezing/abandoning/BSAs, etc. No, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait long, but you still have to wait.

 

So yes, I think it's only fair to wait for unfreezing, too, as it's incredibly unbalancing with a short period of time because you could make quite a few adults and use them for breeding. The excessively long time limit is for game balancing, because it's really the only balancing aspect in the game, other than percentages and ratios.

 

DC is a waiting game, just like Final Fantasy is an RPG. That's not a disputable subject. It's not an opinion. It's what the game is. Sure, maybe you like doing the puzzles and sidequesting in the Final Fantasy game, or something else in the game that isn't the same genre (technically), but that doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

Edited July 17, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[danicast]

We don't mean how you see the game. We're telling you that it is a waiting game. In fact, the time limits are the only thing sometimes that act as any kind of restriction, that and rejections. You still have to wait to raise eggs/hatchlings, wait till you can find the eggs in the biomes/AP that you want, wait until someone offers on your trade, wait for breeding/killing/freezing/abandoning/BSAs, etc. No, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait long, but you still have to wait.

 

So yes, I think it's only fair to wait for unfreezing, too, as it's incredibly unbalancing with a short period of time because you could make quite a few adults and use them for breeding. The excessively long time limit is for game balancing, because it's really the only balancing aspect in the game, other than percentages and ratios.

 

DC is a waiting game, just like Final Fantasy is an RPG. That's not a disputable subject. It's not an opinion. It's what the game is. Sure, maybe you like doing the puzzles and sidequesting in the Final Fantasy game, or something else in the game that isn't the same genre (technically), but that doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

I'll only believe in the affirmative that DC is a "waiting game" if TJ comes and say it by himself. I've been playing for almost 2 years as a strategie/action game successfully so maybe for some people is a "waiting game' but it's not, definitely not, for me. To me is not a mandatory definition but a choice of how you play.

And I tell you more: if we don't work to add more interesting features and speed up the game, this game will be dead in a couple of years because the new generations are being raised to have a much more vivid rhythm to everything and this game is too slow. If this game plans to survive for more years we must think in how to improve it. And definitely make people wait a whole year to unfreeze a hatchie is NOT an improvement.

[purplehaze]

And definitely make people wait a whole year to unfreeze a hatchie is NOT an improvement.

Perhaps you agree with those who think they should not be unfrozen at all?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Danicast, the main reason this suggestion was implemented was for things people regretted freezing way down the line. I didn't regret freezing CB Holidays until limits were lifted, nor regret freezing Old Pinks until they went extinct, etc etc. Most people are only regretting freezings quite some time down the line, once the game changes or they find that rare perfect mate. So I don't think a year is unreasonable. We already have certain dragons that we can only obtain one week every year, after all.

 

Also personally I like DC because it is rather mellow... Most adoptables games require too much work for me, because they require too much stupid non fun stuff be done to raise things well x___X I also think if there was a ton of stuff it'd lose it's niche in the adoptables world.

Edited July 17, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[danicast]

Purplehaze, I'll be honest, this feature doesn't make any difference to me, I have NOTHING to unfreeze. I have exactly 24 hatchies frozen and I believe that only one is a CB, a grave hatchie who looks too much like a cat and I wanted frozed but I have no intention to unfreeze the little one. But there are points that I think should be discussed in this feature because I've seen other discussions and it really annoys me how much a lot of people seems to be interested in keep building this game as a very restrictive, slow and "underdeveloped" game. This worries me too much because I would like to see myself as player in few years.

 

angelicdragonpuppy yes, I understood that but in my opinion unfreeze should be a game mechanism just like freezing is. If unfreeze was a game mechanism since the beginning, released with freeze, we wouldn't be here, having this discussion and people would already have unfrozen their hatchies and probably nobody wouldn't have noticed.

[HeatherMarie]

danicast, it seems your playstyle is one with the least wait-times possible. If you don't want to do things certain ways, that's absolutely fine.

 

But for those of us who do, why can't we?

 

I personally would *love* to be able to unfreeze, and if there were no "frozen at least (time)" limits all the better. But in my experience most suggestions like these need abuse-proof measures.

[danicast]

But Marie, if unfreeze would be created as freeze the chances of abuse will be minimal because a player will be able to unfreeze only 10 hatchies per 2 weeks, just like freeze. I don't see how this can be abused, freeze is not abused in any way because it's restricted.

What I fail in understand is why unfreeze needs to have different rules than freeze.

 

edit: I like the idea of unfrozen hatchies grow up instantly and I already said that maybe a time limit of 15 days to be able to unfreeze a frozen hatchie will be a good idea.

Edited July 17, 2014 by danicast

[edwardelricfreak]

What I fail in understand is why unfreeze needs to have different rules than freeze.

Because frozen hatchlings and adults can do very different things and affect the game differently. It's also very different to stop something from growing and then allow it to grow again.

[danicast]

Because frozen hatchlings and adults can do very different things and affect the game differently. It's also very different to stop something from growing and then allow it to grow again.

Maybe you care to elaborate? I know that adults are different than hatchies. But I see no advantage to freeze a hatchie, wait 15 days and then unfreeze. It's much better to letthe hatchie grow normally, you lose less time.

 

Also it seems to me that people are too worried with other players will do with their dragons and I don't get that.

[LibbyLishly]

But Marie, if unfreeze would be created as freeze the chances of abuse will be minimal because a player will be able to unfreeze only 10 hatchies per 2 weeks, just like freeze. I don't see how this can be abused, freeze is not abused in any way because it's restricted.

What I fail in understand is why unfreeze needs to have different rules than freeze.

 

edit: I like the idea of unfrozen hatchies grow up instantly and I already said that maybe a time limit of 15 days to be able to unfreeze a frozen hatchie will be a good idea.

It needs to have different rules because TJ himself came into this thread and asked us to be aware of certain abuses that this action could allow. The last 26 pages have been obsessive consideration of all possible abuses and the simplest solutions thereto. If you haven't had time to do so, I encourage you to go back and read all 26 pages for the full story and background as to why these limitations were proposed.

Edited July 17, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[danicast]

LibbyLishly I read the thread. But I still think differently.

[cyradis4]

But Marie, if unfreeze would be created as freeze the chances of abuse will be minimal because a player will be able to unfreeze only 10 hatchies per 2 weeks, just like freeze. I don't see how this can be abused, freeze is not abused in any way because it's restricted.

What I fail in understand is why unfreeze needs to have different rules than freeze.

 

edit: I like the idea of unfrozen hatchies grow up instantly and I already said that maybe a time limit of 15 days to be able to unfreeze a frozen hatchie will be a good idea.

Danicast, if I were to abuse your unfreezing, this is how I would do it:

 

1. Raise as many hatchies as I could at Halloween, and freeze 16, and trade to replace the ones I've frozen.

 

2. I now have 16 additional Halloweens, that I wouldn't have had before, because those growing thing slots have opened up.

 

3. Two weeks later, I go and unfreeze them all.

 

4. I have effectively added 16 growing thing slots to my scroll. I have circumvented the growing things limits.

 

You might think, well, 16 isn't that many! Well... Even someone with a Gold Scroll would be hard pressed to raise 21 bred Halloweens without trading during the Halloween season, because of the egg and growing thing limits. Adding quick unfreezing means that you can almost double the amount you can raise during the Holiday with effectively no penalty.

 

If the frozen hatchie has to be a year old before you can unfreeze, then you've lost a full year of breeding AND a Holiday breeding season. Yes, you can still do it, but it carries a heavy penalty.

 

And as for using an unfreeze BSA... I have just one hatchie I'd unfreeze, and even then... I don't feel strongly about it.

 

As for why it needs different rules.... See above. Without a hefty penalty, people will abuse it to get around scroll limits. And BSA or regular action really doesn't make a difference. Either one will work, and how its implemented really makes no difference, so long as the time to unfreeze is long enough to discourage abuse.

 

And so long as Freezing has limits, it by definition limits unfreezing. Because unfreezing depends on freezing. Waiting so you can mass-unfreeze or unfreeze as you go really makes no difference, except if you wait and mass unfreeze you've wasted time you could have had the adults.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[LibbyLishly]

LibbyLishly I read the thread. But I still think differently.

That's fair. Just sometimes people disagree with a point because they haven't read the full reasoning behind it, so I was uncertain as to whether that was the issue here.

 

I will say that it's very unlikely that this part of the suggestion will be changed, because the vast majority of posters have wanted a lengthy period of time before unfreeze could be performed, with most liking the idea of a full year in order to circumvent holiday abuses. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

 

ETA: Of course, if your desire is to use unfreeze in order to circumvent existing growth slot limits, then it may be in your best interest to start a different suggestion thread that uses various mechanisms to intentionally allow that. The purpose of this thread is to work for the addition of an unfreeze action while working within other current limitations.

Edited July 17, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[danicast]

I believe in express my opinions because people can always get something good, you know? I always get good things reading other people's opinions.

[edwardelricfreak]

Maybe you care to elaborate? I know that adults are different than hatchies. But I see no advantage to freeze a hatchie, wait 15 days and then unfreeze. It's much better to letthe hatchie grow normally, you lose less time.

 

Also it seems to me that people are too worried with other players will do with their dragons and I don't get that.

You probably wouldn't use it for that if you wanted to grow the hatchling in the first place? The suggestion is meant for accidents or things you'd rather have unfrozen, for regrets. I don't see much point in freezing something and then unfreezing it later if you could just grow it normally, anyway, either. But that's not the point of what the suggestion is for. :\

 

What other people do with their dragons affects gameplay. For one thing, it affects ratios when they breed (unfreezing itself wouldn't directly cause a change in ratios, as frozens and adults both count for a year IIRC, but the adults being able to breed changes things).

 

Also, it could possibly be used to save a hatchling from dying, only to let it grow again, which might be a problem. While I like them going straight to adult, almost-dead hatchlings being frozen and going straight to adults might not be okay. I'm not too sure, though. Maybe they should have a growth period before going to adults, but they should definitely not be tradeable.