Unfreezing

[Syphoneira]

This concern is the main reason I have against making freezing undoable, and nothing I read in the responses to this concern convinced me otherwise. Yes, I know it's just a game, but thousands of hatchlings were frozen under the premise that freezing would be permanent. To change that now would, in my opinion, damage the integrity of the game itself. Once one rule changes and bends, why not scrutinize the entire list of limiting rules and see what else we can reverse? Freezing being permanent got reversed, why can't _____ be reversed, too?

 

Again, I know it's just a game, but I like that certain limitations force you to make certain choices. I think of it kind of like the stock market. A company's stock tanks so you sell off all your stock. Three months later, the stock soars to an all-time high. You aren't going to be able to magically get that stock back. It's gone for good, regardless of what exterior circumstances (value of the stock) changed. No, you never would have sold the stock had it been that high, just like you never would have frozen the dragon had you thought (with pinks and frills) they'd disappear or (with holidays) that limits would be lifted. But that's the fun of being forced to make a permanent choice. You never know what's going to happen. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It's a gamble you agreed to take by pressing the freeze button to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, Millie_Azure,

 

I would just like to mention that, in conflict with your analogy, the hatchies aren't gone,

 

They have merely been bespelled into perpetual youth, and this spell is, at least theoretically, capable of being lifted in the magical world of DC, if the hatchies decide, after a full year or more of thought, that they want to become adults after all, to experience a full and normal draconic life.

 

Unlike actions taken in the stock market, people unFreezing dragons in a virtual world do not have the potential to adversely affect anyone else, and may slightly help to improve matters, in unlocking at least some more CB past Holidays at a time when demand for 2nd gen/nicely bred Holidays has greatly increased, due to the lovely lifting of limits making Holidays so much more fun for many of us.

 

When it comes to magic in a magical world, preventing a search for suitable magic spells on the grounds that a then-seemingly permanent decision was made under different circumstances and therefore shouldn't be permitted to change could perhaps be better analogized to the RL circumstance of a nun losing her vocation and wishing to leave her order, something that happens and is accepted, rather than comparing it to the selling of stock - then gone and belonging to someone else then accumulating the profit - in RL, and wishing to have it back again without paying more than the previous sale price, after it hikes.

 

The circumstances don't seem to me to match well with the stock sale analogy, but to be far closer to a nun realizing that the life she once wanted forever is no longer her desire.

 

[HeatherMarie]

I think the main reason I'm against this would be that I used to collect frozen hatchies, and the fact that you could just unfreeze them... it feels like all the hard work and all the deliberate choices I made went to waste, really. I know I don't have to unfreeze them or see the feature, but... again, what about those who do unfreeze dragons? What percentage will? What will that o to ratios? (any dragon, no matter how insignificant it may seem, is one more being added to the ratio issue). <--- beating that horse into the ground, but it really hasn't been addressed.

Actually, ratios *have* already been addressed. One of the biggest "limitations" suggested for this whole thing is that you can't unfreeze a frozen hatchie unless it's over a year old. Since ratios only *count* a dragon in ratios for one year (as per TJ), that negates any ratio problems from unfreezing. The dragon simply no longer counts in ratios at all.

 

Again, there are a *lot* of things that DC users have done, a lot of decisions made and time spent, that are now completely moot. The painstaking decision of whether to have an adult-and-child, or to allow both dragons to adult, back when we had 2-dragon holiday limits are a HUGE one. All of those eggs that were "lost in trade" because people decided to take a chance, before Teleport came along. Etc etc.

 

There comes a point when people in general need to stop looking back and start looking forward. YES, freezing has always been permanent and people have acted accordingly. That doesn't automatically mean that it *should* be permanent forever and ever. It doesn't mean things can't *change* just like so many other things in DC have. Frankly I'm still pissed off over the Gold sprite-change, but as I said, I'm looking forward, not back.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Marie19R

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think the main reason I'm against this would be that I used to collect frozen hatchies, and the fact that you could just unfreeze them... it feels like all the hard work and all the deliberate choices I made went to waste, really. I know I don't have to unfreeze them or see the feature, but... again, what about those who do unfreeze dragons? What percentage will? What will that o to ratios? (any dragon, no matter how insignificant it may seem, is one more being added to the ratio issue). <--- beating that horse into the ground, but it really hasn't been addressed.

As was stated by Marie, the dragons themselves would no longer count for the ratios due to being over a year old. Would their offspring? Yes--but the current plan is to only allow 12 unfreezes a year, when most players are collecting more than 12 dragons a week. The amount of dragons being added to the breeding pool by this would be of almost no significance compared to the amounts being grabbed and bred every day. I could go and breed a couple dozen messy dragons I never breed and have the exact same impact on the ratios as any unfreezing will.

 

I also don't see how unfreezing them would make your work less valid. I collect frozens, and being able to unfreeze the very few I want to unfreeze (the Holidays, who were frozen only because it used to be a choice between two adults or never having that S2 ever) will not in any way, shape, or form make all the work I've put into collecting the hundreds of dragons I will keep frozen somehow less important.

Edited February 17, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Shamiir]

Many have pointed out the rule change and thus a reason to introduce unfreeze.

But what of those who made the choice to abandon their CB frozzed hatchie so that they could breed another? This other side of coin makes unfreezing unfair to them.

So for this reason, I am against.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Many have pointed out the rule change and thus a reason to introduce unfreeze.

But what of those who made the choice to abandon their CB frozzed hatchie so that they could breed another? This other side of coin makes unfreezing unfair to them.

So for this reason, I am against.

It doesn't make it unfair in everyone's opinion, and the inability to correct all wrongs shouldn't be a grounds to not fix anything. If we lived by "can't fix x so won't fix y" we would never get anywhere.

 

Personally I released a CB Winter Magi (one of my favorite Christmas dragons) because it grew to adulthood and I wanted an S2 (oh, the irony), but that hasn't kept me from wanting this suggestion. You're right that both are equally fair (choices made under past rules), but the fact remains that one is much easier to amend than the other, and an easy fix shouldn't be stopped just because a different problem can't be solved.

 

That being said, some have thrown out the idea (which would be a separate thread unto itself) that if those dragons were released into the wild, and there was some way of tracking which scrolls had released them (such as having been bred to something before release, waybackmachine, some information TJ might have, whatever), maybe they could be called back. But, again, whether that suggestion flies or dies shouldn't be a reason to shut this one down.

Edited February 18, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[XiziX]

Many have pointed out the rule change and thus a reason to introduce unfreeze.

But what of those who made the choice to abandon their CB frozzed hatchie so that they could breed another? This other side of coin makes unfreezing unfair to them.

So for this reason, I am against.

This is also about unfreezing in general, not about just CB Holidays.

 

Just because some people want to unfreeze frozen CB Holiday's doesn't mean it should not happen.

 

Those who have frozen Holidays will be able to get them to adults if this is implemented. To those who did abandon, there isn't much anyone can do at all. But this thread isn't about getting back dropped eggs, it's about unfreezing.

 

I am still very much for this option. Unfreezing sounds great, and I love the BSA thread I saw on it... Least, I think I saw it. o-O

[Ashes The Second]

I still refuse to support this, if only for sentimental reasons -- I just dislike the idea in general, and it's not like we're changing anything by *not* having it exist -- I am looking at the present, and the present is the fact that this (for now) is still in place and that's how I would like to keep it, though I doubt that will happen.

[Shamiir]

This is also about unfreezing in general, not about just CB Holidays.

True Lyxii.

But in order to be brief, I just put in one main thought. Others have detailed objections better than I would.

[LibbyLishly]

I still refuse to support this, if only for sentimental reasons -- I just dislike the idea in general, and it's not like we're changing anything by *not* having it exist -- I am looking at the present, and the present is the fact that this (for now) is still in place and that's how I would like to keep it, though I doubt that will happen.

I consider this fair. One doesn't have to have a huge pile of logical arguments to oppose an idea - it's enough to simply dislike it or be uncomfortable with in on an emotional level. That's the most honest approach you can take in your opposition, and I respect that.

[BlitzDrake]

1. Players who froze a hatchling before a rule change (i.e. the ability to collect more than 2 of past holidays) would be able to alter the freezing based on new circumstances. I support this because it was a "special" instance where a lot of people froze their Pumpkins for fear they'd never be able to breed.

 

2. New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool and could collect non-discontinued sprites of a lower generation. I dunno. I kinda don't like this idea because to me, the achievement of getting a nice lineage after AP'ing wouldn't be as much a challenge. *shrug*

 

3. People who made a stupid mistake as a newcomer (or even as an older player) would be able to undo that action, albeit much later, giving them a better overall playing experience.Well, the initial action "freeze" or "kill" can be avoided, even if not paying attention. Just set the action to request a password to be sure. I mean, freeze even says "this is permanent"

 

 

 

5. More congruent RP: If we're powerful enough mages to cast a spell of eternal youth, why wouldn't we be able to lift it? o_O strange concept. Kinda like it

 

6. The people who would have use for such an action would be happy and so would have an enhanced playing experience. If you don't have use for this, note that unfreezing would be forced upon no one; those who have frozen hatchlings who don't want to unfreeze them wouldn't have to. One person's decision to unfreeze would in no way affect the scroll of someone who didn't want to unfreeze. true in this sense

Edited February 21, 2014 by BlightWyvern

[xeyla]

I froze my little CB Rosebud because back then, we never thought the limits would be lifted, and I wanted that sprite on my scroll. It is such a beautiful sprite, so I reluctantly froze it at S2. I never thought the limits would be lifted, so I was ok with my little frozen beauty. But now that the limits are lifted, I'm able to have a full sprite set (minus the egg currently) on my scroll, which is what I wanted to do from the beginning. I would love to have an un-freeze action, and have my sprite grow straight to adulthood. I will not trade mine, but that doesn't mean others won't.

[grimace]

Just make it so theres a year or two long gap before you can unfreeze something.

 

I doubt people would be abusing it for convenience or whatever then.

[rumor33]

I would be totally okay with a gap even that long. For me that would insure that its because of things like policy change or we really regret not because we want to hold them for the perfect trade.

Edited March 24, 2014 by rumor33

[DragonLady86]

I would be totally okay with a gap even that long. For me that would insure that its because of things like policy change or we really regret not because we want to hold them for the perfect trade.

While I have no problem what-so-ever with the waiting a year idea. The idea from the very beginning is that they wouldn't be tradable. Either they grow up instantly (best plan, IMO) or they have to be raised to adult hood but are locked to the scroll.

 

I can't think of single reason why a formerly frozen hatchling should become trade fodder. Which is why I support them growing up instantly, less code work and no threads popping up all the time "why can't I trade my hatchlings?"

 

No trading, under any circumstances. A year wait is fine (possibly not necessary, but I'm fine either way), I still have some I would like to unfreeze, for MY scroll.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If possible I think a year + 7 days would be best, as anyone who tried to abuse it to overload on extra Holiday hatchlings would have to wait two whole years for them to breed true--which means I doubt anyone would ever do it!

[Fuzzbucket]

While I have no problem what-so-ever with the waiting a year idea. The idea from the very beginning is that they wouldn't be tradable. Either they grow up instantly (best plan, IMO) or they have to be raised to adult hood but are locked to the scroll.

 

I can't think of single reason why a formerly frozen hatchling should become trade fodder. Which is why I support them growing up instantly, less code work and no threads popping up all the time "why can't I trade my hatchlings?"

 

No trading, under any circumstances. A year wait is fine (possibly not necessary, but I'm fine either way), I still have some I would like to unfreeze, for MY scroll.

This. NO TRADING EVEN OF ANY KIND.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I am not a big fan of them being able to be traded. Two reasons.

 

1) For them to be traded, they'd have to still be hatchlings. This means people are going to be seeing Old Pinks, wildly out of season Seasonals, Halloweens in July, and all sorts of other weird things in the hatcheries. It's going to cause a lot of confusion, IMO.

 

2) The even bigger concern for me is that people can then essentially exploit the heck other players. "Has: Old Pink hatchling, Wants: ur soul and firstborn child lululul." It just seems cruel to allow them back into the market, but at such scarcity that many, many, many people will miss out, tempting them with something they could in theory obtain but never really can... maybe others feel differently, but my unease about it combined with the reasons in #1 make me against it. :/

Edited March 24, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[cyradis4]

I thought the consensus had been reached some pages back?

 

- Must be frozen for 365 days before it can be unfrozen

- Only 1 unfreeze per scroll per month

- Insta-adult

 

I'm really not sure how the above could be abused.... And it has RP reasons, too. The age limit is because the hatchling much recover from the initial freezing spell before it can have that much magic used on it again, the 1 per month limit is because you have to recover (I'd imagine that unfreezing is harder than freezing, or at least, takes more energy). And insta-adult cuz its part of the spell (part of what takes so much extra energy ).

 

Cheers!

C4.

[JavaTigress]

I don't see TJ09 approving the idea of unfreezing hatchlings. For reasons some others on here related to the complications and drama it would cause and the other excellent reasons that have been mentioned. SO I don't see it getting OKed.

[DragonLady86]

I don't see TJ09 approving the idea of unfreezing hatchlings. For reasons some others on here related to the complications and drama it would cause and the other excellent reasons that have been mentioned. SO I don't see it getting OKed.

he's already commented that it could be doable, but that a compromise between "rule change" and "I made a mistake" groups needs to be addressed. Which is what this thread is attempting to accomplish.

[olympe]

If possible I think a year + 7 days would be best, as anyone who tried to abuse it to overload on extra Holiday hatchlings would have to wait two whole years for them to breed true--which means I doubt anyone would ever do it!

An excellent point, really. Maybe simplify it to 13 months?

[bbik]

Bump, now that we probably have people wanting to unfreeze the notoriously hard to get GoNs, too. Though I personally think the other thread about upping/removing the limits is the way to go, for them specifically.

[XiziX]

Still going to stalk/bump this thread because I would like an answer from TJ. There are so many reasons to allow unfreezing at this point, and tons of ideas to make it work without being exploited. >.>

[Rafaela22]

I think freezing should be permanent. Otherwise people might use it to get around the egg limits. If It had thr 13 month thing, that would be OK too.

 

BUT I think people who froze holidays before the limit was moved (THANK YOU TJ for changing that) should get a chace to unfreeze, as they are special and things have changed since then and GONs because of the new hybrids. I would feel awful if I had a frozen GON after the birthday release. I don't freeze just because now I'm worried more stuff like this will happen and then I'll be kicking myself.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think freezing should be permanent. Otherwise people might use it to get around the egg limits. If It had thr 13 month thing, that would be OK too.

 

BUT I think people who froze holidays before the limit was moved (THANK YOU TJ for changing that) should get a chace to unfreeze, as they are special and things have changed since then and GONs because of the new hybrids. I would feel awful if I had a frozen GON after the birthday release. I don't freeze just because now I'm worried more stuff like this will happen and then I'll be kicking myself.

The original unfreezing suggestion was just for Holidays (because of changed circumstances, as you said), but TJ shot it down and basically told us unfreezing had to be a normal option rather than an exception if it was to be allowed.

 

With 13 months before anything can be unfrozen (and the fact that only hatchlings can be frozen, which generally aren't the big slot lockers), I don't think this would be used for exploiting the limits