Unfreezing

[KageSora]

Idea for the BSA idea: What if... what if Freezing is actually a curse, and in order to Unfreeze you need really strong Magic? Whites could supply that, since Magis already have Teleport. Just a thought.

 

I really don't understand concerns for abuse if certain conditions are met:

Condition 1: IF hatchy growth timer is ABOVE 7 days - If the hatchy would have been grown up at the time of unfreezing if it had not been frozen, then let it instantly grow up.

Condition 2: IF the hatchy growth timer is BELOW 7 days - If the hatchy would still be a hatchy under its default growth timer at the time of unfreezing, then restore that growth timer.

Condition 3: IF the first condition is met THEN activate breeding cooldown - If the hatchy meets the requirements for instant adulthood, activate the breeding cooldown on it like is done for holiday dragons.

About views/UVs: Any dragon would have to have enough to grow up. Unfreezing a dragon that should insta-adult but doesn't have the view count would result in the dragon dying. If it couldn't have grown up before it was frozen, it shouldn't be able to now.

And finally: a cooldown per dragon (BSA) OR scroll (non-BSA) of 31 days would be fair.

How would anyone be able to "abuse" this feature if the above (and already discussed, I see) conditions are in place? As an aside, I have never understood why this was not an option. We have the option to kill dragons, why can't we unfreeze them? =|

Sounds way overly complicated to me. We want it nice and simple--over complicating it will greatly hurt the chances of anything happening.

 

Especially since I'm not sure what you mean by "growth timer". 7 days is the maximum outside of glitches, right? So how could it be ABOVE that? That basically makes insta-adulting impossible and isn't even worth bothering to state.

 

 

I also just dislike the idea of a BSA. As has been pointed out, Heal is a better use of a BSA for whites. That, and I don't really think Freezing is a curse. There's nothing to suggest that we're cursing our own dragons. It's just another spell. And, since we cast it, the idea of us being unable to lift it ever is rather bothersome. Generally speaking, I'd imagine most mages would rather not cast a spell they can't lift unless it was a dire situation and they had no other choice. Freezing doesn't really feel like it'd fit that bill to me, so...

 

And, while BSAs are nice... There is, of course, always the problem of people who would get amazing use out of them... But hate the dragon it's attached to.

 

Not to mention it would HAVE to be scroll-wide, otherwise a person with massive amounts of the BSA dragon can pretty much just ignore the cooldown limit.

 

 

And I HATE the idea of a death-punishment. To me, that would basically toss it into the same category as Earthquake--wonderful potential results, but the heaviest penalty makes it all but useless to the majority of the people who would otherwise make use of it. And what's the point of adding a feature if you make it all but useless in the process?

Edited January 12, 2014 by KageSora

[edwardelricfreak]

And, since we cast it, the idea of us being unable to lift it ever is rather bothersome. Generally speaking, I'd imagine most mages would rather not cast a spell they can't lift unless it was a dire situation and they had no other choice. Freezing doesn't really feel like it'd fit that bill to me, so...

Considering that we have a spell to bring dragons back from the dead, I'm sure we could somehow know how to reverse a spell that makes something stay young forever. You're essentially "giving life" back to it, allowing it to grow and age properly.

[KageSora]

Considering that we have a spell to bring dragons back from the dead, I'm sure we could somehow know how to reverse a spell that makes something stay young forever. You're essentially "giving life" back to it, allowing it to grow and age properly.

Exactly.

 

If we can revive the dead for almost 2 weeks after death... I'd say we can remove an eternal youth spell.

 

 

Reviving the dead would require being able to reverse the rotting process and healing the sickness/wounds that caused the death to restore life to it (since zombies are when it goes 'wrong' technically). We can either repair the dragon's body well enough that it's initial sense of self can come back (if it's assumed to be caused by memories and brain activity and whatnot)--but if there's souls involved, then that means we have the power to call back the souls of the dead and restore them to the flesh they originally inhabited. That's pretty potent magic, IMO.

Edited January 13, 2014 by KageSora

[LadyWolfHeart]

I apologize if this has already been said. I was just about to go to bed when this idea hit me, so I haven't fully read this thread, yet.

 

Anyway, what about giving Spring weather dragons a BSA called Spring Thaw? Quite literally an ability that could only be used in the springtime.

 

I am too tired at the moment and I will be out of town the next two days, so I've not much time irl to allow for working out the specs on such a thought, but I wanted to toss it out there before I forget about it completely.

 

*slips off to bed*

[olympe]

Has been suggested somewhere (BSA suggestions?) in the past. The problem with seasonal dragons is that they just look like the seasons their eggs were laid in, but there's nothing in their description to suggest that they possess any kind of magical ability, much less abilities that have to do with "their" respective seasons.

[XiziX]

Exactly.

 

If we can revive the dead for almost 2 weeks after death...  I'd say we can remove an eternal youth spell.

 

 

Reviving the dead would require being able to reverse the rotting process and healing the sickness/wounds that caused the death to restore life to it (since zombies are when it goes 'wrong' technically).  We can either repair the dragon's body well enough that it's initial sense of self can come back (if it's assumed to be caused by memories and brain activity and whatnot)--but if there's souls involved, then that means we have the power to call back the souls of the dead and restore them to the flesh they originally inhabited.  That's pretty potent magic, IMO.

This. This this.

 

Knowing that we can seriously bring the dead back to life, lifting a freezing spell should not be hard or impossible. Especially if we are keeping the "RP" side to it. Which is something TJ said needed to be considered.

 

Actually, it makes no sense that we can't lift the freezing spell now that you guys brought this observation to light.

 

We can change the genders of creatures while they are in the egg, revive the dead, etc. So unfreezing should make sense RP wise. And there have been great ideas thrown out on the table.

 

What's the next step in this? Approval of TJ? I'd like to know what he thinks of suggested ideas so far. ;o;

[Sirithiliel]

Well controlling gender of an egg is possible without magic =) crocodiles and other reptiles are a good example

[KageSora]

Has been suggested somewhere (BSA suggestions?) in the past. The problem with seasonal dragons is that they just look like the seasons their eggs were laid in, but there's nothing in their description to suggest that they possess any kind of magical ability, much less abilities that have to do with "their" respective seasons.

Not to mention we're not actually thawing anything out. They've had the aging process halted--"frozen in time", if you will. They're not literally frozen into ice.

[LibbyLishly]

What's the next step in this? Approval of TJ? I'd like to know what he thinks of suggested ideas so far. ;o;

Good question. TJ has stuck his head in a couple of times, but traditionally he's fairly quiet about where he stands on any of the suggestions threads, just asking thought-provoking questions or making/asking for clarifications from time to time. Rarely does he comment about whether he's going to the change in question.

 

From here, I guess, we just continue to work out the proposed details as best we can, give consideration to any further concerns that pop up, and then wait and see if TJ sees fit to implement the suggestion - which, fair warning, could take a very long time, as he has many suggestions to consider and other bits of improvement and maintenance to do.

Edited January 18, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ok so--regarding the conflicts of interest between instantly growing up and wanting to make S1s into S2s...

 

Perhaps the unfreeze spell would have to be applied twice in the case of S1s? It would obviously slow down the process a bit for those seeking to bring S1s to adulthood, but on the other hand it'd remove the problems of not having them grow instantly (confused people asking why there are Winter hatchlings in Summer, people asking why they can't trade them, people asking since when did Frills come back, etc etc) while also letting people correct S1 frozens to S2s.

 

Perhaps the text in such cases could read as such:

 

"You cast a counter-spell on [NAME]. They begin to age, but then promptly stop, leaving you with an adolescent dragon where there should be an adult. Perhaps a second application of the spell is required."

 

 

[KageSora]

That sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Or maybe there could be an option to fully unfreeze and one to do a partial unfreeze to bump it up to the next stage--with the one that only gets it to S2 having a somewhat (but not abusably) shorter cooldown or something?

[DragonLady86]

Ok so--regarding the conflicts of interest between instantly growing up and wanting to make S1s into S2s...

 

Perhaps the unfreeze spell would have to be applied twice in the case of S1s? It would obviously slow down the process a bit for those seeking to bring S1s to adulthood, but on the other hand it'd remove the problems of not having them grow instantly (confused people asking why there are Winter hatchlings in Summer, people asking why they can't trade them, people asking since when did Frills come back, etc etc) while also letting people correct S1 frozens to S2s.

 

Perhaps the text in such cases could read as such:

 

"You cast a counter-spell on [NAME]. They begin to age, but then promptly stop, leaving you with an adolescent dragon where there should be an adult. Perhaps a second application of the spell is required."

Hmm. I'm probably in the minority here, but if this ever gets implemented I might consider this over trying to run 10 hatcheries to get dragons to gender early enough to not risk growing before I can freeze. Because that is a major pain and really slows my computer down. (because it's not fair to throw my dragons in that many if I'm not giving views back to each site too)

 

Also like KageSora's idea that this might have a lesser cooldown in this instance.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

That sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Or maybe there could be an option to fully unfreeze and one to do a partial unfreeze to bump it up to the next stage--with the one that only gets it to S2 having a somewhat (but not abusably) shorter cooldown or something?

That'd definitely be more convenient. Perhaps when an S1 is chosen for unfreezing, rather than going immediately to the confirmation page, it brings up another set of options:

 

--> Partial Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adolescence.

--> Full Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adulthood.

 

And if for whatever reason TJ finds that a bother to implement, it can just be the unfreeze twice thing.

 

I'm not sure the partial unfreeze needs a shorter cooldown. Obviously the advantages to changing a hatchling's stage aren't as great as the advantages to gaining an adult, but at the same time the person did achieve what they were hoping for with the action, so waiting the same amount of time as for a full unfreeze shouldn't be too much to ask.

[pinkgothic]

--> Partial Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adolescence.

--> Full Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adulthood.

I think a "give this hatchling wings" spell could potentially be entirely separate from the unfreezing mechanic, really.

 

The reason I'm putting that out here explicitly is because I feel that might let us keep the "instant adult on unfreeze" option in hand without saying s1's need to stay s1's forever. I figure there's a lot less controversy about "give this hatchling wings", really; I think it might even generally benefit from being its own suggestion?

 

Just some thoughts. *might not be on the right track with them, it's just something that occurred to me right now*

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think a "give this hatchling wings" spell could potentially be entirely separate from the unfreezing mechanic, really.

 

The reason I'm putting that out here explicitly is because I feel that might let us keep the "instant adult on unfreeze" option in hand without saying s1's need to stay s1's forever. I figure there's a lot less controversy about "give this hatchling wings", really; I think it might even generally benefit from being its own suggestion?

 

Just some thoughts. *might not be on the right track with them, it's just something that occurred to me right now*

It could be, but the idea of having two new actions on unfrozen's pages (or, well, at least some unfrozen's) seems a bit cluttered to me, when both could be neatly squeezed into the same action.

 

Sorry if I seem overly picky--I do think all these changes would be useful / more convenient, I'm just all jittery because I already know the chances of this getting accepted in any form are slim, so I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible to up the odds ;;

 

(Also, I now am envisioning S1 Dorsals, Waters, and Mints suddenly gaining a pair of glued-on paper wings)

Edited January 23, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[DragonLady86]

I think a "give this hatchling wings" spell could potentially be entirely separate from the unfreezing mechanic, really.

 

The reason I'm putting that out here explicitly is because I feel that might let us keep the "instant adult on unfreeze" option in hand without saying s1's need to stay s1's forever. I figure there's a lot less controversy about "give this hatchling wings", really; I think it might even generally benefit from being its own suggestion?

 

Just some thoughts. *might not be on the right track with them, it's just something that occurred to me right now*

sooo, does this tie in more to the old suggestion about 'finding' potions and such in the game? /sorry, but all I can think of when I read that is a Redbull commercial. lol.

 

 

 

 

/back on topic. I will say again, that I do like this idea for making stage 1's into stage 2's. (in any form, really)

[KageSora]

That'd definitely be more convenient. Perhaps when an S1 is chosen for unfreezing, rather than going immediately to the confirmation page, it brings up another set of options:

 

--> Partial Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adolescence.

--> Full Unfreeze: Allows this hatchling to grow to adulthood.

 

And if for whatever reason TJ finds that a bother to implement, it can just be the unfreeze twice thing.

 

I'm not sure the partial unfreeze needs a shorter cooldown. Obviously the advantages to changing a hatchling's stage aren't as great as the advantages to gaining an adult, but at the same time the person did achieve what they were hoping for with the action, so waiting the same amount of time as for a full unfreeze shouldn't be too much to ask.

I was mostly thinking about it like it would take more power/energy/whatever to do a "full unfreeze" rather than a "partial unfreeze". So, since it would be taking less resources to perform it would make sense to take less time to recover.

 

 

I agree that a "let them mature one stage" spell could be it's own action--but then it makes it more cluttered, as was mentioned.

[Fuzzbucket]

What about those who want an S2 to revert to S1 ?

 

*do want*

[KageSora]

While I personally think it'd be great to be able to do that (I've just such a dragon I'd like t'do that to....) I think trying to tack on that, in addition to trying to add in the ability to make S1 to S2 would pretty much just make it.... Too powerful? I think that's the term I want.

 

Additionally, I think that would be a different sort of magic, something that would require it's own suggestion thread. That'd be reversing the aging process, which is rather a different direction than removing the aging spell (and, if it insta-adults, implied that it speeds up the aging process as well) to allow it to return to aging.

[Fuzzbucket]

While I personally think it'd be great to be able to do that (I've just such a dragon I'd like t'do that to....) I think trying to tack on that, in addition to trying to add in the ability to make S1 to S2 would pretty much just make it.... Too powerful? I think that's the term I want.

 

Additionally, I think that would be a different sort of magic, something that would require it's own suggestion thread. That'd be reversing the aging process, which is rather a different direction than removing the aging spell (and, if it insta-adults, implied that it speeds up the aging process as well) to allow it to return to aging.

That's why I'm in favour of instant adulthood and not the intermediate S1 > S2 !

[LibbyLishly]

Wasn't there a BSA floating around in that section regarding making sprites younger rather than older? Or was that one of those that everyone kept saying didn't fit whatever breed was proposed?

[LadyFoxfire]

I like the idea of unfreezing being similar to revival or creating a zombie. The unfreeze option should only be allowed one day out of the year, say the first day of summer to have it make sense, and only on that day, but with a high chance of failing, just like reviving a dragon, or turning it into a zombie. This way, it would cut down on freezing just to capture other growing things since everyone would only have a very limited chance one day a year to unfreeze with no guarantees. Because of that, I think that a failed unfreezing, like a failed revival, should remain permanent from then on for that specific hatchie.

 

I also think that once a hatchie is unfrozen if it succeeds, it should take up a hatchie slot and start back exactly on the timer from which it was frozen so that the growth would just continue where it left off, but any hatchie that has ever been frozen should be treated like an adult or zombie to where it can never be traded even if successful. I think the same with trying to refreeze an unfrozen hatchie - once it's unfrozen, it can never be frozen again because if a player takes goes through the time and effort to unfreeze a hatchie, they obviously wanted it unfrozen for a purpose.

 

As far as making a mistake in freezing the wrong one, unfreezing the wrong one, well it's no different than killing, releasing, or abandoning the wrong dragon. A mistake is a mistake and sometimes we all just have to live with it.

[HeatherMarie]

Why only one day a *year*? That's WAY too limiting and makes the action practically worthless. Revival, which you mentioned, has a chance of working year-round; Creating a zombie, ie bringing something *back from the dead* is way more intense magically then just undoing a spell you've already done, imo. I see no in-game reason for unfreezing to be restricted to once a year; If that restriction is to stop abuse or freeze-quick-unfreeze actions, there are already suggestions in place that takes care of those concerns. The concerns you outlined in the first paragraph have already been talked through and the proposed solutions are in the first post.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Marie19R

[KageSora]

I like the idea of unfreezing being similar to revival or creating a zombie. The unfreeze option should only be allowed one day out of the year, say the first day of summer to have it make sense, and only on that day, but with a high chance of failing, just like reviving a dragon, or turning it into a zombie. This way, it would cut down on freezing just to capture other growing things since everyone would only have a very limited chance one day a year to unfreeze with no guarantees. Because of that, I think that a failed unfreezing, like a failed revival, should remain permanent from then on for that specific hatchie.

 

I also think that once a hatchie is unfrozen if it succeeds, it should take up a hatchie slot and start back exactly on the timer from which it was frozen so that the growth would just continue where it left off, but any hatchie that has ever been frozen should be treated like an adult or zombie to where it can never be traded even if successful. I think the same with trying to refreeze an unfrozen hatchie - once it's unfrozen, it can never be frozen again because if a player takes goes through the time and effort to unfreeze a hatchie, they obviously wanted it unfrozen for a purpose.

 

As far as making a mistake in freezing the wrong one, unfreezing the wrong one, well it's no different than killing, releasing, or abandoning the wrong dragon. A mistake is a mistake and sometimes we all just have to live with it.

First of all, revive is available year-round. Zombies are only known to be created on Halloween, but you can revive any time and sometimes it succeeds and you get the original dragon back.

 

Second, no, first day of summer doesn't make sense. They're not frozen with ice, they're closer to being frozen in time. So the whole tie to summer makes no real sense.

 

Also absolute NO to the idea of failure being permanent. That would make it utterly useless to a lot of people who would want to use it, IMO.

[XiziX]

Because of that, I think that a failed unfreezing, like a failed revival, should remain permanent from then on for that specific hatchie.

 

I also think that once a hatchie is unfrozen if it succeeds, it should take up a hatchie slot and start back exactly on the timer from which it was frozen so that the growth would just continue where it left off, but any hatchie that has ever been frozen should be treated like an adult or zombie to where it can never be traded even if successful.

Completely disagree. Just like KageSora mentioned. We want this option (should it be allowed) to actually be useful.

 

It's been discussed a few times already with the hatchie slot being taken up, etc. But I think I am more in favor of it instantly growing up. But I suppose having it take up a slot would make it so there wasn't mass unfreezings.

 

I agree that anything unfrozen should not have the option to be traded away. Should this unfreezing be implemented, it should be for the individuals scroll purpose only, not for trading.