Unfreezing

[olympe]

Because it's only the rares and holidays and retired breeds that will be unfrozen. Well, first and foremost. All of which can be used for breeding rares, as frills and holidays guarantee a rare egg in the case of success. No fails to satisfy the ratios.

 

It's still not much, is it?

Edited January 10, 2014 by olympe

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Still, with Halloweens being unlimited, Christmases newly unlimited, and Valentines likely to go unlimited, too--most people probably already have more than enough Holidays to mate all their metals to, unless they're storing up on the latter like squirrels on acorns. So I don't think a few more--coming from what's already likely a very small part of the user base--will be so bad.

[olympe]

It's worse than previous ideas that would grant people up to one CB rare a year for raising enough commons. Much, much worse. Because it's more than one rare a year that could be unfrozen. It would mess horribly with the ratios and impact trading because rares would lose their worth. And where would that leave our poor power traders? (That's what I've been told/asked a while back.)

[cyradis4]

Because it's only the rares and holidays and retired breeds that will be unfrozen. Well, first and foremost. All of which can be used for breeding rares, as frills and holidays guarantee a rare egg in the case of success. No fails to satisfy the ratios.

 

It's still not much, is it?

The other reason to wait 365 full days to unfreeze is that the frozen no longer counts toward the ratios. Only its (potential) offspring could still count, and really.... who cares? 1 dragon every 31 days is negligible compared to the number of dragons in the game.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[HeatherMarie]

Still, with Halloweens being unlimited, Christmases newly unlimited, and Valentines likely to go unlimited, too--most people probably already have more than enough Holidays to mate all their metals to, unless they're storing up on the latter like squirrels on acorns. So I don't think a few more--coming from what's already likely a very small part of the user base--will be so bad.

Exactly. The holidays argument doesn't really make a dent anymore. Let's see, I have maybe 2 holiday frozens that I would even *think* about unfreezing. That's 2 more adults, meaning a total of 8 more eggs (if there's a full clutch each time; This past year I had 2 3-egg clutches).

 

8 more eggs because of what I would unfreeze. Compared to the *HUGE* amount of new holiday eggs that will be made next year *because* of the "unlimited change". SO many more users have SO many more holidays to breed now, because of that change...

 

Unfreezing, compared to that, barely even makes a ripple.

 

(and actually, I know I'm just one person, but I wouldn't be focusing on rares/holidays. I have a good handful of commons that I'd love to unfreeze, simply because I did the whole "parents and one baby!" back then, and turns out I don't like the hatchie sprites very much.)

 

 

edit:

It's worse than previous ideas that would grant people up to one CB rare a year for raising enough commons. Much, much worse. Because it's more than one rare a year that could be unfrozen. It would mess horribly with the ratios and impact trading because rares would lose their worth. And where would that leave our poor power traders? (That's what I've been told/asked a while back.)

 

With the inclusion of "poor power traders" I have to figure you are being sarcastic, but I'll put out a simple answer anyways. A maximum of 12 (11?) frozens a year could be unfrozen, per user. Compare that to ONE non-breeder suddenly deciding to breed their entire scroll regularly..... Oh come on. Ratios are fluid, or haven't we gone over that? When people start breeding something like crazy, that something eventually becomes less and less common because of all those ones that were bred a few months back. If, goodness forbid, a group of users unfreezes 20 commons in the span of 5 months (I'm not even going to do the math, so whatever), Ratios will adjust for that.

 

Also, if we can get solid confirmation from TJ that a year-old unfrozen hatchling won't count as a "new" living thing, then ratios *won't matter anyways* since they only count for a year.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2014 by Marie19R

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It's worse than previous ideas that would grant people up to one CB rare a year for raising enough commons. Much, much worse. Because it's more than one rare a year that could be unfrozen. It would mess horribly with the ratios and impact trading because rares would lose their worth. And where would that leave our poor power traders? (That's what I've been told/asked a while back.)

Sounds like a very fair compromise. And, with a limit of about 1 unfreezing per month, there isn't much space for abuse. Compared to what we can raise (using incubate, but not expressly hunting for low-time eggs or hatchlings), 11 to 12 dragons per year really isn't much. (With a gold trophy, we can raise what, 7 dragons every other day? That adds up to 365/2 * 7 = 182.5 * 7 = 1277.5 dragons per year. What's 12 more or less than that, really?)

 

I think you answered your own question... compared to how many more rares / holidays are naturally being added to the game every day, I just don't see how 11 a year could have much of an impact compared to that, especially when not everyone freezes, not everyone who does freeze would unfreeze, and not every thing unfrozen is necessarily a rare/holiday, further limiting how many are likely to be added to the breeding pool. Unless you're being sarcastic...?

Edited January 11, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Syphoneira]

I think she said she was simply quoting people who'd claimed this - Olympe is a supporter.

[Natayah]

I didn't realize the grow up instantly thing wasn't already a given and I think it sorta has to be as this suggestion takes care of so many objections and potential abuses that it just makes sense.

 

While I'm not gonna rehash my opinions on breeding, it makes sense that if breeding is allowed, a longer cooldown would make sense. Evolution may say 12 year olds are ready for childbirth, but usually it takes a lil longer to settle in with any species, but humans are a great example.

 

I still think there should be no reason for a hatchling to flee due to this process. Generally people have good relations with their dragons. Forcing grow up magic on a baby would probably end up with that human attacked by SOME Dragon, if not the new adult itself. This isn't like a powerless Neglected. Unless the bad side of the spell not working is something new along those lines.

 

Maybe a superaged brink of death dragon.

[Syphoneira]

Hi, natayah, I absolutely agree about the inst-adult preventing abuses and problems!

 

But just to mention, I personally think of it as a dragon bespelled into perpetual childhood deciding that it'd rather grow up after all, and having this dis-spelled, not as a bad spell forced on a dragon.

 

 

[olympe]

I still think there should be no reason for a hatchling to flee due to this process. Generally people have good relations with their dragons. Forcing grow up magic on a baby would probably end up with that human attacked by SOME Dragon, if not the new adult itself. This isn't like a powerless Neglected. Unless the bad side of the spell not working is something new along those lines.

Fail message: You try to force an aging spell on XXX [insert hatchling name/code here], but another dragon rushes to its aid and kills you. You're dead. You cannot collect any more dragons.

 

Game over.

[Fuzzbucket]

Fail message: You try to force an aging spell on XXX [insert hatchling name/code here], but another dragon rushes to its aid and kills you. You're dead. You cannot collect any more dragons.

 

Game over.

 

Ouch. Me no like.....

[LibbyLishly]

Fail message: You try to force an aging spell on XXX [insert hatchling name/code here], but another dragon rushes to its aid and kills you. You're dead. You cannot collect any more dragons.

 

Game over.

Can't... stop... laughing...

[olympe]

I guess natayah's suggestion is not an option, then?

[purplehaze]

I guess natayah's suggestion is not an option, then?

I think not. Even though I am not sold on the idea of unfreezing, I think this is a bit harsh.

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess natayah's suggestion is not an option, then?

Hope not....

[LibbyLishly]

I guess natayah's suggestion is not an option, then? 

It's an interesting thought, but I can't see how it would work practically. I don't think she was being entirely serious, though.

 

Superaged brink of death dragon... someone needs to suggest that in Dragon Requests.

Edited January 11, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Natayah]

LOL ..... I promise I was not trying to propose a fail cast equaling player death, maim or attack.

 

Yes the point was if we were going to do it, the hatchling is going to generally agree to it. If you were doing things the dragon they may not like (neglecting, zombifying), the dragons aren't in a position to either understand or seek retribution. Adult normal dragons are different. So, I would assume the hatchling is ok with it, the human is a moron, or the human cares more about the results and has restrained the dragon in some way.

 

Either way, unlike normal experiments, this one could potentially fight back.

 

Anyways, I do like the idea of a super aging process as a potential offset or something new to add unrelated. You certainly have my permission to submit any such proposal as I have no time or inclination for such.

 

Sorry for any disappointed fans at finally having a DC endgame!!

[Vhale]

The downside to insta adult is being able to fix an ungendered frozen. I know I had snagged a snow angel out of the ap this Christmas and froze 2 ungendered, mistakenly thinking I needed the sprite. So, I released the 2nd one and I'll nab another next year. But given how many people complain about released holiday dragons, I'm sure they'd rather me have kept it. And if I could have fixed it, I would have.

[Syphoneira]

LOL ..... I promise I was not trying to propose a fail cast equaling player death, maim or attack.

 

Yes the point was if we were going to do it, the hatchling is going to generally agree to it. If you were doing things the dragon they may not like (neglecting, zombifying), the dragons aren't in a position to either understand or seek retribution. Adult normal dragons are different. So,  I would assume the hatchling is ok with it,  the human is a moron,  or the human cares more about the results and has restrained the dragon in some way.

 

Either way, unlike normal experiments, this one could potentially fight back.

 

Anyways, I do like the idea of a super aging process as a potential offset or something new to add unrelated. You certainly have my permission to submit any such proposal as I have no time or inclination for such.

 

Sorry for any disappointed fans at finally having a DC endgame!!

 

 

Lol, who at DC can resist a chance for a joke and a giggle?

 

Although personally, while this is a unique idea and I could see an aging spell potentially having such an effect, I'm not sure why the lifting of an 'eternal childhood' spell would super-age and kill a dragon, especially since, according to the general description 'Dragons are creatures with nearly unlimited life spans' and 'no one has found a dragon that has died of old age' so that it's left open as to whether they actually have the type of aging process we do at all.

 

Admittedly, nobody knows, because we do know that they have such long life-spans, but if they did, sooner or later, surely someone would find some bodies...

 

 

 

Edit: Vhale, wasn't there some talk, quite some time back, I believe following some change or other, about a possible fix for Frozen hatchies which had been intended to be at a different stage?

 

I certainly could be mistaken, but do seem to recall there being a discussion about this and, with the usual caveat of my lousy memory, (and that of only having just started on my first cup of coffee, lol,) I do seem to recall some rather hopeful-sounding comments from TJ's end and a general happiness with them.

 

Does this ring any bells with anyone?

 

Perhaps if TJ stops by and notices this, he'll comment on it and sort this out.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Pinch of StarDust]

Fail message: You try to force an aging spell on XXX [insert hatchling name/code here], but another dragon rushes to its aid and kills you. You're dead. You cannot collect any more dragons.

 

Game over.

I just found this thread and now I can't stop laughing! Good one!!

[KageSora]

Re: Being stopped by an adult dragon not liking what you're doing:

 

 

Well, that makes no sense to me. I mean, adult dragons don't rush in to stop you from stabbing your dragons to death when you kill them. Adult dragons don't rush in to stop you from attempting to call back the spirits of the dead when you try to revive even though if it goes wrong you get an unholy abomination of magic and bone. Adult dragons don't rush in to save the eggs or hatchlings you neglect to the point of being sickly, frail creatures.

 

They also don't try to stop you from putting the eternal youth spell on hatchlings--not even the ones they produced. So why would they suddenly care about you lifting an enchantment they didn't even care that you cast in the first place?

 

 

Re: Super-aging:

 

I also agree that it makes no sense since, as far as we know, dragons don't have a finite lifespan. At the very least it would make no sense for a hatchling to gain back all the time it spent frozen and then age and die if you have older dragons even of the same breed that are alive and well! Doubly so if the frozen is actually the offspring of one of your adult dragons.

 

Unless you mean that unfreezing would be not lifting the original spell but instead putting a counter-enchantment that speeds up the passage of time to counteract the initial enchantment, and were somehow unable to stop the course of the magic once the hatchling had reached the physical age it should have been?

 

If that's the case, again, though, I'd argue that since as far as the game is concerned adult dragons have infinite natural lifespans it would still not make any sense unless we added in a finite lifespan for adults. (But, I'm rather certain nobody wants to log on one day and find their adults dead of old age!)

[BeardedKumquat]

Er... How about making frozen discontinued dragons untradable?

[KageSora]

Er... How about making frozen discontinued dragons untradable?

A number of people agree that all unfrozen dragons should either grow up instantly (thus not be able to be traded) or function like Guardians of Nature and be scroll-locked.

[Riannon]

Idea for the BSA idea: What if... what if Freezing is actually a curse, and in order to Unfreeze you need really strong Magic? Whites could supply that, since Magis already have Teleport. Just a thought.

 

I really don't understand concerns for abuse if certain conditions are met:

• Condition 1: IF hatchy growth timer is ABOVE 7 days - If the hatchy would have been grown up at the time of unfreezing if it had not been frozen, then let it instantly grow up.
• Condition 2: IF the hatchy growth timer is BELOW 7 days - If the hatchy would still be a hatchy under its default growth timer at the time of unfreezing, then restore that growth timer.
• Condition 3: IF the first condition is met THEN activate breeding cooldown - If the hatchy meets the requirements for instant adulthood, activate the breeding cooldown on it like is done for holiday dragons.
• About views/UVs: Any dragon would have to have enough to grow up. Unfreezing a dragon that should insta-adult but doesn't have the view count would result in the dragon dying. If it couldn't have grown up before it was frozen, it shouldn't be able to now.
• And finally: a cooldown per dragon (BSA) OR scroll (non-BSA) of 31 days would be fair.

How would anyone be able to "abuse" this feature if the above (and already discussed, I see) conditions are in place? As an aside, I have never understood why this was not an option. We have the option to kill dragons, why can't we unfreeze them? =| Edited January 12, 2014 by Riannon

[HeatherMarie]

Idea for the BSA idea: What if... what if Freezing is actually a curse, and in order to Unfreeze you need really strong Magic? Whites could supply that, since Magis already have Teleport. Just a thought.

 

I really don't understand concerns for abuse if certain conditions are met:

 

 

Condition 1: IF hatchy growth timer is ABOVE 7 days - If the hatchy would have been grown up at the time of unfreezing if it had not been frozen, then let it instantly grow up.

 

 

Condition 2: IF the hatchy growth timer is BELOW 7 days - If the hatchy would still be a hatchy under its default growth timer at the time of unfreezing, then restore that growth timer.

 

 

Condition 3: IF the first condition is met THEN activate breeding cooldown - If the hatchy meets the requirements for instant adulthood, activate the breeding cooldown on it like is done for holiday dragons.

 

 

About views/UVs: Any dragon would have to have enough to grow up. Unfreezing a dragon that should insta-adult but doesn't have the view count would result in the dragon dying. If it couldn't have grown up before it was frozen, it shouldn't be able to now.

 

 

And finally: a cooldown per dragon (BSA) OR scroll (non-BSA) of 31 days would be fair.

 

 

How would anyone be able to "abuse" this feature if the above (and already discussed, I see) conditions are in place? As an aside, I have never understood why this was not an option. We have the option to kill dragons, why can't we unfreeze them? =|

I personally don't like the idea of this being a BSA. The spell to freeze isn't, so why should the reverse-spell be? (And Whites would be much more suited for the already-suggested Heal BSA anyways, and I for one certainly wouldn't trade Heal for an unfreeze option.)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "hatchie growth timer"... It *sounds* like what you are saying is the amount of time between being frozen and unfrozen. But it's already been pretty firmly established that frozen hatchlings would be unable to be unfrozen for a year (or a year +1 day) in order to prevent abuse. Which is actually much easier to remember/understand then the "hatchie growth timer".

 

Have you read all the restrictions we've already put in place for this suggestion? An unfrozen hatchling dying because of lack of views is way too restrictive, imo, given the amount of restrictions *already* placed on this. You unfreeze, it insta-adults, end of story. No one has to worry about enough views, time left on unfrozen hatchlings, trading abuse, etc etc. Just insta-adult.

(or, another proposed option is simply having to re-raise the hatchling. While I much prefer insta-adult, re-raising seems understandable in an RP sense since the hatchling has been suspended as a hatchling for a long time and might need more help growing up. These hatchlings would be tied to the scroll, to negate trading abuse.)

Edited January 12, 2014 by Marie19R