ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[olympe]

And, as much as we'd all hate it, it's the winner's choice to just keep it without breeding it.

 

I'd also support to make the number of prizes being given out depend on the number of entries - like 1% overall. Or maybe 1% gold, 2% silver, 3% bronze, 4% honorable mention. (Which again would add up to 10%, I guess.) But anything is better than the numbers we've had so far.

[purplehaze]

Actually, I believe appreciation for the game, not the dragon, is what grox wanted to say.

 

if you leave, you obviously did not like the game enough, or it was just not as important.

if you stay and keep the price to just look at it - well, your decision, but the game still factors into your life.

 

it's basically a wasted price, since not even the winner does anything with it.

And again, I don't understand why this should matter at all to those of us who did not win. Not bred is not bred and has the same effect on the community regardless of the reason/s.

 

I don't think we should be trying to determine who is "worthy" to win, which is what this all sounds like to me.

Edited December 31, 2012 by purplehaze

[Sturmschwinge]

For many players, lineages are an integral part of the game. I'd be too bored and probably leave without them. But I know that not everyone cares for them.

Actually I don't believe that. They are an integral part of the game for a loud minority on this forum. Not even all of us on this forum care for lineages. And the vast majority of all players never use this forum at all.

 

Why change a raffle for a minority of players who play the game in a way that it is not really intended to be played?

[DaniBoo]

it's basically a wasted price, since not even the winner does anything with it.

It's up to the breeder what they'll do with their Dragon. It's not wasted, it's not required to be bred and shared. If it was supposed to be bred and shared, then that would be a waste. But prize dragons don't have any requirements on what you have to do with them, so there is no waste.

[Snowytoshi]

 

@Rally Vincent: People are more likely to appreciate something if they are active and have it on their scrolls than if they leave and never look at it again though, aren't they?

 

When I joined Magistream I was gifted a lovely jackalope, it was and still is my favorite pet. I don't go on there much anymore (read once every few months) because I got bored, however I appreciate that jackalope much more then I appreciate some of the dragons on my scroll right now.

 

I can't honestly see where this is going. I can see your point, and I myself don't like either people leaving or people not breeding it.

What is wrong with them not breeding it? It's their dragon and it is their choice to do what they want with it.

 

But I don't know of any active tinsel owners from last year who don't breed them. I do know of tinsel owners that left fairly recently after getting them.

Therefore it is likely that there will be at least some of those tinsels in the breeding pool, just like there will be of the new dragons.

 

There is no way to stop someone not breeding their tinsel without forcing them to play in a certain way (which I am of course against), but there is a way to try to reduce the number of players who quit without breeding their prize.

Why do we care? As you said above prize winners do breed their dragons at least once and even if they don't that's their choice. I don't tell you if you should breed your dragons or not, but even if you quit tomorrow I would not begrudge the fact that you appreciated your dragons. So why can we pick and choose which users deserve it and which don't?

Edited December 31, 2012 by Snowytoshi

[Singalana]

I think it is fair that EVERYONE can win, wether you have been in DC for one day, or many years. Many of the rarer dragons concentrate on the hands on those players who already have a lot, so it's fair that everyone can have a change to get goodies.

[Draikinator]

I don't think the actual system needs changing; the entry for this years raffle was very good. Since you had to actively participate, scrolls of people who don't play or don't care aren't entered. People who spent more time on it are more likely to win. If a newbie actually waded through all those recipes then by god give them a prize dragon.

 

However, I definately agree the amount of prize dragons given out is dramatically disapointing. The number of users has increased exponentially over the years and thrity is just getting to be outrageous. I think the suggestion of keeping the percentage yearly is wonderful.

 

People have no obligation to breed or share their dragons, it's THEIR prize. But, even still, everyone else entered the raffle, too, so a few more won't really impact the rarity and will help share the love with the people who also worked hard.

[Wookieinmashoo]

I honestly only want a larger percentage of prize dragons like fuzzbucket said. A 1% would be good but a 5% would be better and I don't think there should be any "requirements". If someone is lucky enough to win twice, so be it. Increasing the initial numbers released will let people get them earlier and not have to trade. It took me 6 months to get my first one which was from a very common line and I won it in a writing contest. Also lineages may not be part of the game initially, but people should have the the ability to get their second gens because that's how they want to play. I still only have one second gen and that's because of an agreement made with a friend. Increasing the number released would increase the chances of people being able to get those dragons. That's the main complaint I see...people not breeding their dragons and insuring them to everyone else.

 

EDITED for typo

Edited December 31, 2012 by Wookieinmashoo

[DeathCry]

5. More prizes! This seems to be the most popular idea so far, as it would decrease slightly the rarity of prizes, stopping the few members that do get them being spammed with requests just as much, and it spreads them around a bit more. Possible numbers suggested range from 100 - 500. Another possibility is increasing the number of prizes proportionally to the amount of entries.

 

This, I believe, would be one choice that I would be absolutely fine with. Regardless to how long players have been here, if there is a larger population that can possibly win, that would be so much nicer.

 

I say this as someone who's been here for almost 5 years and typically hates competitions because someone always loses out. I would love to look at this as the lottery because I know that many have died after playing for years and won nothing, but I'd like to think that DC would make things better by at least a smidge.

[Sturmschwinge]

I'd like to add that I am still very offended by the suggestion itself. The thought alone that someone does feel so entitled to people breeding for them, angers me. The idea to exclude people from a raffle is outrages on so many levels, that I cannot even begin to express my disgust. This is a really horrible idea and it saddens me that people have come up with it. Especially after Christmas which is all about love and sharing.

[BlazingAces]

Meh, I find this whole topic kind of offsetting. This is a holiday event, you should be happy with the outcome no matter what. I guess the holly jolly Christmas spirit dies as soon as "Prize" dragons are added into the mix.

 

Honestly, they are just a bunch of pixels. There's no reason to make the newer members feel unwelcomed by saying they shouldn't be able to have a fair chance at winning. Put yourself in their shoes, you were once a beginner too. We didn't have silly rules like that back then, why should we now?

 

People get older, they leave to do bigger & better things with their lives. Not everyone decides to stick around a website for years on in. Just because they are inactive now doesn't mean they won't come back. They can't stop their own life just because they have a prize dragon on their scroll. Regardless if it's a prize dragon or not, it's theirs for the keeping. They can & will do whatever they want with it. No amount of research/scientific studies or any other mumbo jumbo mentioned can prevent it from happening.

 

Edt:

Sturmschwinge, you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

Edited December 31, 2012 by BlazingAces

[DaniBoo]

I'd like to add that I am still very offended by the suggestion itself. The thought alone that someone does feel so entitled to people breeding for them, angers me. The idea to exclude people from a raffle is outrages on so many levels, that I cannot even begin to express my disgust. This is a really horrible idea and it saddens me that people have come up with it. Especially after Christmas which is all about love and sharing.

I completely agree.

 

 

[Ravensilver]

I very much liked the fact that in order to be eligible for this year's raffle, you had to put effort into it. I think that even for new players, that meant something. Maybe it will encourage them to stay, *especially* if they win one of the prizes.

 

It also made sure that only people who are genuinely interested in playing DC would be entered in the raffle. Let's be honest: even making just one recipe took time and effort. And until you could make a red star one, you certainly had to work at it.

 

I would like for that to continue: make entering the raffle an effort. Creative stuff like decorating a tree doesn't do all the varied people here on DC justice. Not everyone has an eye for creative work. And, as we all know, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

 

But the cooking thing - yes, I liked that as a criteria. After all, it was up to each one of us to make the effort to find and cook *all* recipes - thus giving us a bit more chances at a potential win.

 

If I were to change anything it would be this: make being able to participate in the raffle *always* contingent on some kind of effort.

 

Addendum: I *would* applaud there being more prizes. I think the population of DC has grown over the years and so the number of prizes should reflect that.

 

 

[Mistress of Whispers]

I'm against most, if not all, of the proposed restrictions on the winner. As much as I can sympathize with people not wanting to see lovely dragons go to 'waste', you cannot force people to breed, nor can you force them to keep playing. The only one I might be able get behind, is setting the Bronze trophy as a minimum for entry, simply because getting 50 dragons isn't too steep a goal, but even that I'm not sure of.

 

I am in agreement, however, on increasing the number of prizes given out in accordance with the number of entries. So 1 prize per x entries (based on the ratio in the first raffle).

[Xythus]

Sturmschwinge, I could not have worded it better myself. I re-read the OP, and I still can't help but feel like all the suggested things are all just five different ways to say "Lets change it up so some portion of the population has the upper hand". If I had to pick, I'd probably go with #6, no prizes at all.

[Ravensilver]

People get older, they leave to do bigger & better things with their lives. Not everyone decides to stick around a website for years on in. Just because they are inactive now doesn't mean they won't come back.

This.

 

I remember grabbing my first dragon back in 2008 - an original Pink, which I'm still very happy about. Then things happened in my life that took me away from DC and playing.

 

Years later, I've come back intermittently and am now playing quite seriously. Have just hit the gold trophy and started my first breeding project.

 

Will I still be here 5 years from now? Maybe. Will DC still be here 5 years from now? I hope so...

 

But things happen. Life goes on. And it doesn't always include a game like DC.

 

Maybe those who left did so involuntarily? You never know.

 

None of them have any obligation to the rest of the players. Does anyone who owns a CB Gold have an obligation to breed and gift its children to those who don't have any golds? No. If they do, then it's very, very generous of them. But they have absolutely no obligation to do so.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Ravensilver

[TheGrox]

CB Golds cannot in any way be compared to Tinsels. They are not limited.

 

And, I do NOT feel entitled that prize winners or anyone should breed for me, as some people seem to think. It is just a shame when members leave, potentially without knowing the value of what they have won, because they are new to the game in general.

 

Also, if you are do "disgusted" and "offended" at my suggestion, then please be constructive.

 

I think it was Lyth who said DC gameplay was getting "stagnant" and "old". That is because everyone on the forum is opposed to ANY sort of change, that nobody can agree on anything, so things stay the same. Whilst I try to give reasoning to support my suggested changes, all everyone keeps posting is "it's not fair". You may dress it up with words but that is essentially it. People can't seem to see beyond that to even consider my reasoning. Guess what? Life isn't fair.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Rally Vincent]

I think you are right with your statement regarding rarity. But I do not see why prizes have to be rare.

I hope I didn't come across like I'd side with that kind of thought. What I wanted to say is that based on previous threads I have the impression that many people want Prize Dragons to be rare. I don't care that much what the rarity of a dragons is; I just wnated to point out that giving out a huge amount of Prize dragons may a large number of members unhappy. It'd be a double-edged blade, and we should consider that when we are/were at that point discussing an absolute number.

 

What I'd be interested in is the numbers of active players of 2010, 2011 and 2012, just to see how many players were coming on one prize, HM included. It would be great if TJ could post some numbers, if he feels like it, that is. Just to see what a reasonable amount of Prize eggs could be if the number is up to debate.

 

I think it was Lyth who said DC gameplay was getting "stagnant" and "old". That is because everyone on the forum is opposed to ANY sort of change, that nobody can agree on anything, so things stay the same. Whilst I try to give reasoning to support my suggested changes, all everyone keeps posting is "it's not fair". You may dress it up with words but that is essentially it. People can't seem to see beyond that to even consider my reasoning.

What makes you think your suggestion goes beyond the "unfairness" everyone concentrates on? Which part of your suggestion will change the actual gameplay? Your suggestion doesn't change the game, only access to it.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Rally Vincent

[BlazingAces]

I think it was Lyth who said DC gameplay was getting "stagnant" and "old". That is because everyone on the forum is opposed to ANY sort of change, that nobody can agree on anything, so things stay the same. Whilst I try to give reasoning to support my suggested changes, all everyone keeps posting is "it's not fair". You may dress it up with words but that is essentially it. People can't seem to see beyond that to even consider my reasoning. Guess what? Life isn't fair.

I do believe they call that sectionalism. Telling someone they can't participate in something because they haven't earned their "Full member" award to do so is beyond ridiculous. If you want change this isn't the way to go about it. DC needs to change as a whole, giving everyone the same advantages.

 

Your point was, and I quote "Guess what? Life isn't fair." You do realize that this completely contradicts your original post, right? If life isn't fair why spend your time making a thread about newer members abandoning DC with prize dragons on their scroll.

Edited December 31, 2012 by BlazingAces

[Sturmschwinge]

Also, if you are do "disgusted" and "offended" at my suggestion, then at least try to be constructive or argue your point, rather than hitting out at me for attempting to make things better.

There is nothing to argue. Your suggestion is unjust and unfair. I can see no arguments for it that I can find valid or reasonable. (And no, people might behave as I don't want them to behave is not a valid argument.)

[chienkaiba]

Isn't one of the reasons we have a raffle is to make it fair for everybody?

Including newbies and older players? (I'm talking as a player with good intentions for the site in mind, not as a newbie who wants a shot at the prize.)

[BlazingAces]

@chienkaiba

 

I do believe this was TJ's full intent. If it wasn't this "new member discrimination" rule would already be in effect.

 

As of right now we don't have anything to worry about. I highly doubt TJ would consider making this an option for next years prize event. Especially not after all the replies from concerned users, or people that just flat out disagree.

[Fuzzbucket]

I do believe they call that sectionalism. Telling someone they can't participate in something because they haven't earned their "Full member" award to do so is beyond ridiculous. If you want change this isn't the way to go about it. DC needs to change as a whole, giving everyone the same advantages.

 

Your point was, and I quote "Guess what? Life isn't fair." You do realize that this completely contradicts your original post, right? If life isn't fair why spend your time making a thread about newer members abandoning DC with prize dragons on their scroll.

ACTUALLY - in the first post TheGrox said:

The raffle as it stands at the moment is fair, and probably the fairest it could be, so why change it?

 

The suggestions made after that were actually tagged as "But, how can we improve the raffle, without making it unfair?"

 

I don't happen to agree with them - except the more prizes one - but he has said all along that the current way is fair (which is more than life is, actually, or I wouldn't be deaf ) but that he would like to see it targeted better at more active players. I don't agree with that - but he hasn't once said that that would be fairer as such.

 

(private joke to TheGrox - you may now laugh immoderately... )

Edited December 31, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[BlazingAces]

What you just pointed out makes no difference. If anything it proves my point.

 

The raffle as it stands at the moment is fair, and probably the fairest it could be, so why change it?

If it's completely fair & legit why are we having this conversation? Why was the thread created?

~Smells like contradictory~

 

But, how can we improve the raffle, without making it unfair?

Saying newer members shouldn't be allowed prize dragons is fair? I highly doubt it.

~Smells like contradictory~

 

Your saying it as if I'm attacking TheGrox, which I'm not. The inconsistency in the post is what I'm trying to point out. As well as the unfairness in granting older members higher status when it comes to holiday events.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I voiced mine & I see no reason to continue doing so. If anything I commend TheGrox for touching on a subject few dare to mention.

 

@TheGrox, it's nothing personal. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I tend to get a little too invested when these types of subjects come up.

Edited December 31, 2012 by BlazingAces

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh I agree with you. I think it should stay as it is - but with more prizes, and that they should be set at a proportion of entries.

 

Just that he did agree that it is fair as it stands, and I thought you were suggesting he said it wasn't. I suppose there is a case to be made (which I don't think has been made) that a raffle with more preconditions is still fair - like whoever it was referred to those which only club members can join. You could argue that everyone CAN achieve a bronze trophy/have played for a month/whatever - as both are things that everyone CAN achieve, it isn't unfair as such to make them a precondition. Me no like - but it would still be FAIR, as no-one is excluded, just has to wait a bit. Kind of like you cannot review descriptions right away - you have to have 10 dragons first. (I think that's the condition - as I haven't been in that position for a long time, I have no way to look back !)

 

Conditions on what happens AFTERWARDS are something else. So is higher status for length of play etc.

 

TheGrox bravely raised the subject and I totally agree - it is a good one for discussion. I think you and I agree, in fact, except about what constitutes a contradiction here

Edited December 31, 2012 by fuzzbucket