ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Lythiaren]

Repost @ PF:

Not everyone would, but stinginess isn't exactly a reason to be excluded from a raffle either.

 

Like I said, if I win one I have no intention of ever breeding it. Does that mean I should be removed from the raffle? Because I'd be "not generous" simply because I wouldn't be appreciating the dragon in the way that everyone would want me to?

 

Because if you take the OP of this thread at face value, Grox seems to only want prizes to be appreciated. If I named and put a description on my prize and fawned over my screen where you guys couldn't see it, and never bred it ever to preserve the purity of a CB virgin ultra-rare, how would I be appreciating it less than someone who breeds theirs every CD and uses the eggs as extremely valuable trade fodder every week? They're certainly getting a lot of use out of theirs but my appreciation would be not only much less visible, but also still massively downplayed by the community.

But no really, if you're still concerned about people flipping out at CB tinsel owners being allowed in the raffle, under the banner of "spread the love", please do tell me why I wouldn't be excluded by that very same reasoning. Because the spreading in my direction would stop if I'm not breeding; I'm obviously not spreading the love, even if I win something and adore it. :|

Edited December 30, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Sturmschwinge]

I really don't understand why the raffle should be changed because of a certain group of people like to collect and breed a certain type of dragon.

 

I'm pretty sure that it is not the majority of users who worry about prices for certain bloodlines of dragons or low generation whatever breeds. Most of us play the game as it is intended: grab the dragon, raise it, breed it.

[drabrugon]

What if tinsels were available as HM prizes?

It is not said that you can choose them or am I wrong? And maybe most people would still want a CB Holly. Honestly, I do not know what having Tinsels as HMs would change. Would 500 new Prizes really make a difference? They would be still very rare and difficult to get.

Edited December 30, 2012 by drabrugon

[Pokemonfan13]

Lyth, at this point I'm trying to change the subject. The horse is dead, let's stop beating it...

 

Increasing the number of prizes significantly makes most of the other points, if not moot, less outrage-worthy.

[Lythiaren]

I'd still like an answer to my question.

[DarkEternity]

Hmm, but if more people won and I didn't it might feel a bit like summoning.

EDIT: you know, the feeling some unlucky people get when you feel you have a decent chance of getting an egg but flip a table when several years later you still don't have one and newer players do. You know, that bone of contention.

Edited December 30, 2012 by DarkEternity

[drabrugon]

Hmm, but if more people won and I didn't it might feel a bit like summoning.

EDIT: you know, the feeling some unlucky people get when you feel you have a decent chance of getting an egg but flip a table when several years later you still don't have one and newer players do. You know, that bone of contention.

No matter how high the number of prizes is, the ones who do not win will always complain I am afraid.

Edited December 30, 2012 by drabrugon

[Pokemonfan13]

It is not said that you can choose them or am I wrong? And maybe most people would still want a CB Holly. Honestly, I do not know what having Tinsels as HMs would change. Would 500 new Prizes really make a difference? They would be still very rare and difficult to get.

It isn't said that you can choose them. If TJ wasn't planning on having tinsels be an HM choice, let this be a suggestion to him to make it so.

 

I'm not saying they wouldn't be difficult to get. BUT they would be over 10 times easier to get than tinsels after the original release. And over time the increased breeding stock would make them MUCH easier to get. If nothing else it would be harder to demand truly outrageous prices for them.

[rayden54]

Actually, I'm not sure increasing the number of prize dragons would do anything to increase the number available in the general population anyway.

 

It would increase the number of lower gens somewhat, but ultimately the limiting factor on tinsels isn't the number of tinsels in existence, it's the ratios.

 

Depending on how they work out, it could actually mean fewer of any one line.

 

edit: just realized that my second sentence could be considered contradictory. What I meant was, "increasing the number of tinsels in existence won't increase the number being bred"

 

Can you imagine what breeding the new prize would be like if there were 500 of them dumped into the game at once (assuming the ratios are the same for them as tinsels).

Edited December 30, 2012 by rayden54

[Sturmschwinge]

I'm not saying they wouldn't be difficult to get. BUT they would be over 10 times easier to get than tinsels after the original release. And over time the increased breeding stock would make them MUCH easier to get. If nothing else it would be harder to demand truly outrageous prices for them.

It's not that hard to get a tinsel, is it?

 

Where is the fun in hunting/getting a certain dragon if it is too easy?

[PolarVortex]

I still like the idea of more prizes, best. What about if they were like Tinsels with multiple variations? So there could be 500 winners but maybe 5 colors, so there would still only be 100 of each... Very rare, but lots more happy winners. Plus throw in some HMs, for even more happy people! Who knows, maybe that is already the plan for this year? That would be awesome

 

My biggest problem, too, is that the prizes thus far have been TOO rare. My favorite thing about this game, like others have said, is that everyone is equal. Except introducing these elite prize dragons takes away from that somewhat, and it is discouraging for those who don't do much trading or don't know many other players or aren't on the forums. JMO

 

 

[Coronaviridae]

Then think of it this way. How outraged would the entire forum be if someone who already had a prize dragon won another one, even if it is a different dragon? It's still like giving the person running a country's money printing machines [who can take as much as they like] a machine that can make flawless gemstones too. They already literally have a mint, why should they get even more?

And why should TJ care at all what the forum is doing?

 

Why should public sentiment of a very tiny part of the entire playing population be taken into account?

 

If we go that way, you have an equally valid argument for:

-never allowing inbreeding

-never permitting killing for any reason

-removing the neglected so as not to encourage virtual animal cruelty (and the associated ridiculous control of trade that people who can produce CB Neglecteds get)

-making "rares" much less rare

-heredity genetics so everyone can breed rares(!!!)

 

Argue for an idea on its merits, not what people will say about it.

[Pokemonfan13]

It's not that hard to get a tinsel, is it?

 

Where is the fun in hunting/getting a certain dragon if it is too easy?

Getting a tinsel [apart from the drought] isn't that hard NOW, but that's if you don't care about the gen. Getting a 2nd or 3rd gen is still not easy.

 

 

 

 

And as to the ratios [and by necessity the drought], I personally think that prize dragons being a part of the ratios is rather sad. To suddenly hit a wall and the dragons being incredibly rare again just seems counterproductive to me. Especially since now each individual dragon is practically infertile. I've got IOUs that I will probably never discharge at this point, but when they were made it seemed likely that they would be paid in a few months. My 2nd gen gold tinsel last produced a tinsel in spring.

 

A flat breeding rate, perhaps that is somewhat high at first and slowly lowers as the population increases to a lower rate, but still high enough that eggs are produced relatively regularly, seems best to me.

 

The goal to me should be that everyone who wants one should have one without extreme effort or luck or generosity of others. The lower gens would still be prized, but the dragons themselves wouldn't seem like unobtainable dreams to new members.

 

Someone is going to say "they are prizes, they should be rare", I'm sure. But why? Why shouldn't they be able to eventually spread throughout the entire community? Low gens will always be rare no matter what is done, unless CBs and 2nd gens are given multiclutches of the prize eggs.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[DarkEternity]

Forcing the Prize dragons to multiclutch like Holidays could help distribute low gens to individuals who do not have the trading power, until the ratio is reached.

 

Given the fact that from memory there were 80 000 entries in the 2010 contest, increasing the Prizewinner number to 500 would have a limited effect on overall userbase happiness and the obtainability of the prize.

 

Increasing the number of prizewinners also has the impact of forcing users to socially interact with others which tends to exclude less sociable players. Judging from the number of breeding requests that I have received, vocal players are generally more successful. Multiclutching may allow individuals to have a more chances of obtaining the dragon if they spend time on the AP, as opposed to prize dragons being transmitted primarily by teleport.

Edited December 30, 2012 by DarkEternity

[drabrugon]

I am still not sure if increasing the number of prizes given out makes a difference. But if it is a chance to prevent the winners from being harassed it is worth to think about it seriously.

Edited December 30, 2012 by drabrugon

[Pokemonfan13]

I think that's the biggest plus to increasing the numbers of CBs: less harassing of each individual winner. The others are great, but that's the main one. Unless a large percentage of people decide to PM every winner they can track down it would cut the number of PMs each one gets significantly. And theoretically there's less chance of nastiness if they say no, since there are lots of other people to ask rather than just a few.

[Lythiaren]

Winners will always be heckled. If there are 500 winners there will just be 500 people to PM.

[DarkEternity]

Winners will always be heckled. If there are 500 winners there will just be 500 people to PM.

Most of the people who have 2nd gen prizes have more than one. Most people who are already on a second gen prize list are already on more than one. That's just my observation.

 

Also, most of the time someone creates a stalk list of winners, which usually makes rounds around the internet *shrug

Edited December 30, 2012 by DarkEternity

[pinkieseb]

Why not just keep the winners Annonymous? Then they wouldn't get PMs unless their told everyone about them winning.

Btw arnt the winners getting a rarer CB than Tinsels this year? O_o

[DarkEternity]

Why not just keep the winners Annonymous? Then they wouldn't get PMs unless their told everyone about them winning.

Btw arnt the winners getting a rarer CB than Tinsels this year? O_o

Everyone's anonymous. But being anonymous is really boring. Eventually you'd have to talk to people if you gift/trade and that's how everyone knows who has a prize and who doesn't. It gets around like wildfire.

Edited December 30, 2012 by DarkEternity

[LugiaLover]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[arenee1999]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[boscodelta]

The only way to stop drama and complaining on Dragon Cave is to close the great big Dragon Gate and go home. Of course, there would still be incredible drama, but no one would see it. No matter what is done, or how it is done, someone will complain.

 

That's kind of pointing out the obvious, of course there will always be someone who objects. But what we are trying to do is make a higher rate of the population happy than what we have now. Of course someone will always complain but its better to have 5 happy people and one unhappy person than to just shut everything down so that no one can complain anymore.

[DarkEternity]

That's kind of pointing out the obvious, of course there will always be someone who objects. But what we are trying to do is make a higher rate of the population happy than what we have now. Of course someone will always complain but its better to have 5 happy people and one unhappy person than to just shut everything down so that no one can complain anymore.

This and the fact that hopefully complaining is not going to be pointedly aimed at a small group people come the results of the raffle.

[pinkieseb]

To be honest I don't really see the point of this thread anymore. I think that the raffle is something that TJ controls, and there isn't much that the members can do about it. At this point, we don't even know if the prize dragon is going to be breedable.

 

Furthermore, as many users have stated, the point of a raffle is that every ticket has an equal chance of winning. I think the system is fine how it is. A few lucky users will get prize dragons and then it's really nobody's business as to what those users do with their prizes.

What would be the point of a non-breedable prize dragon? They couldn't trade it, and no one would ever get them because the chances are so low of winning raffle.

Unless the prize dragons would be put in the cave too I doubt they'll Ever be unbreedable.