Cave Feedback

[cyradis4]

It's allowed in Suggestions. It's not allowed in BSA.

 

And we don't mind bumping every few weeks, although it is kind to delete old bump posts so there aren't just pages of bumps.

Which also kinda helps make my point. Why would you not be allowed to indicate that you like a certain BSA.... that's already been worked out to final form so there's nothing more to discuss? So how can you keep a thread, like the Sunsong or Moonstone BSA suggestions I have that are mostly worked out and both wanted to help solve problems, up front and center where TJ can see them?

 

Perhaps we could have a Suggestions poll or something, where all the worked out BSAs are listed and the one people want most is taken to TJ by the mods, for feedback on if it will ever happen or if it can happen fast or if there's some other critical issue with it for why it'll never happen / needs to be fixed.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Obscure_Trash]

Tabs are an interesting situation, as I've mentioned elsewhere.

 

There's been a enough proposals regarding new ways to organize dragons that I know it's a problem that needs solving. But any solution needs to be easily usable in a wide variety of situations: The average user, with ~100 dragons, all the way up to 10000+ dragons; people reorganizing their dragons from scratch to incremental curation of new dragons as you get them; organizing for self vs organizing for others viewing your scroll.

 

If you look at a lot of other systems, they don't even bother allowing such a level of curation at that scale. Music playlists rely on some predetermined sort order and search; friends lists on social network do the same.

Well, as a different example, how about any of the trading/teleport suggestions? How active do they need to be?

 

All the suggestions to modify teleport to be more useful/dynamic that cyradis4 linked for examples are from 2011 and have posts from at least May of this year.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

@TJ - If you want to see an example of a site that uses Tabs and works VERY WELL, I suggest you look here.. http://magistream.com/user/CinnaminDraconna

 

We even received a recent update making it so that instead of 50 tabs we could have 100 tabs. There's even a Mass Move ability that allows us to move all the creatures from one tab to another, or just some of the creatures in a tab by using checkboxes, or we can just move creatures one at a time. The only negative to their tabs is that you can't rename them... but they're working on that.

 

Oh yes, you can also move the tabs around just by dragging and dropping them into place. So you aren't limited in how the tabs are ordered either.

 

------------------------

 

I completely agree with the others about the BSA subforum. It either needs to be divided into 'fun' and 'useful', or leave the fluff in the subforum and let us discuss useful BSA's in the main forum. Cyradis has it right about the BSA subforum as it is, it's a graveyard, because everything in there might as well be dead.

[TJ09]

Could you give us any more guidelines on how you would like an idea for tabs to be organized?

That's assuming tabs are the correct option, and given the plethora of suggestions for new ways of organizing dragons When someone suggests something, I look at the actual problem behind the suggestion, because the proposed solution isn't necessarily the only or best solution to the problem.

 

Basically here's a bunch of thoughts, that help understand what people need regarding Dragon organization:

• Is sorting expressive enough for what we want?
  • The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system?
    • What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort?

• Otherwise, what is the underlying problem?
  • Is it locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search?

  • Assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted:
    • Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?)

    • Where do groups show up?
      • Breeding?
        
      • User pages?
        
      • Any action that lists dragons?

  • How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups?

  • Is there a size limit to groups?
    • If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?"
  • Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?)

@TJ - If you want to see an example of a site that uses Tabs and works VERY WELL, I suggest you look here.. http://magistream.com/user/CinnaminDraconna

I'm not exactly convinced that a situation that results in six rows of tabs is actually solving the organizational problem. Experience suggests that people who don't actually have all six rows memorized are unlikely to scan all 50-ish groups.

[olympe]

I'm not exactly convinced that a situation that results in six rows of tabs is actually solving the organizational problem. Experience suggests that people who don't actually have all six rows memorized are unlikely to scan all 50-ish groups.

I'd much rather have 60+ tabs that I labelled according to what I can find in them than the (currently) 47 pages that I have right now. Because, let's be honest, there's no way to tell which dragon is on what page unless you do a manual sort, with the default being "youngest dragons on the bottom". Even so, dragons are bound to move from one page to another once more dragons have been sorted into their places.

Edited August 2, 2016 by olympe

[HeatherMarie]

I'd much rather have 60+ tabs that I labelled according to what I can find in them than the (currently) 47 pages that I have right now. Because, let's be honest, there's no way to tell which dragon is on what page unless you do a manual sort, with the default being "youngest dragons on the bottom". Even so, dragons are bound to move from one page to another once more dragons have been sorted into their places.

I have to agree with this. I would much rather have bunches of tags or tabs then the clunky system we have now. And I only have 7 pages of dragons. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be with 47!

[Tigerkralle]

I like the feature that we can see the number of the generation above the dragons in the lineage view. Thanks and i really hope this will be a feature for all users.

 

If i am a human guinea pig i am a happy human guinea pig.

[olympe]

Well, looks like you are a guinea pig. Because I'm most definitely not. Or I'm blind. Whichever.

[Renmiri]

Just posting here to say I LOVED the 10th anniversary release. Being able to have a pink army and a frill army has always been my dream and now I can

 

Is there any way to do the same for CB holidays of previous years ? I'd love to have cb snow angels and cb sweetlings <3

 

Also wanted to give my 2 cents on the tabs for scrolls. That would be awesome. A search by tag would also rock. I still have fun with breeding projects but now it takes so long for me to know where my dragons are! And I could finally stop naming my caveborn "cb" and my EG "eg".

 

I have soo many tinsels/ shimmers that it is a pain to know which gen they are, which partner they have, etc.. I have had to do the sort by gen myself, separating EG from stair, low gen from high gen, 2012 prizes from 2014 prizes, all based on naming, which makes my dragon names weird.. Even with that done, now I'm still missing a way to tell which tinsels are bred with terrae, which are bred with gold, etc...

 

Tabs need to be moveable so we can put a breeding project we are working on on the forefront, and store our old lineages on the background... I also just moved my tins / shimmers around because for the past year or so only 3G and under trade well so there is no point on having my 4th gens on top of the scroll... Took me 2 days to get it all moved

I still can't tell you how many 3Gs I have with an alt base or how many Penk or Dorkface descendants I have..

 

It seems most of us have gold trophy and large scrolls, a better way to group our dragons for various purposes would really make the game more enjoyable.

 

I also have a suggestion for large scrolls, something I have been wanting to do for years: Scroll battles: If I attack https://dragcave.net/user/sheppardkid who would win ? I have a lot more brute dragons than he has but perhaps his superior army of White dragons with their white magic could give my brutes and plated colossus a run for their money!

 

Would be a fun thing to do for some people so it would have to be a thing you opt in.

 

But battles would be a way of leveraging our pages and pages of old dragons. Each scroll would be like a fort or "poke gym" defended by the dragons inside and people battle and win points. We could have tourneys and such, with different "weight classes" lightweight scrolls with bronze trophy or under would compete against each other, silvers compete with silvers, golds trophy scrolls could all compete on the same class or have a few tiers measure by # of dragons: 3,000 or less, 3,000-5,000, 5,000 plus. We could make higher gen dragons stronger, and cave blocker having some deadly attacks, as a way to make people want to keep more blockers on their scrolls and want to trade for higher gens..

 

Hope people like the idea

Edited September 2, 2016 by Renmiri

[DragonLady86]

 

I also have a suggestion for large scrolls, something I have been wanting to do for years: Scroll battles: If I attack https://dragcave.net/user/sheppardkid who would win ? I have a lot more brute dragons than he has but perhaps his superior army of White dragons with their white magic could give my brutes and plated colossus a run for their money!

 

Would be a fun thing to do for some people so it would have to be a thing you opt in.

 

But battles would be a way of leveraging our pages and pages of old dragons. Each scroll would be like a fort or "poke gym" defended by the dragons inside and people battle and win points. We could have tourneys and such, with different "weight classes" lightweight scrolls with bronze trophy or under would compete against each other, silvers compete with silvers, golds trophy scrolls could all compete on the same class or have a few tiers measure by # of dragons: 3,000 or less, 3,000-5,000, 5,000 plus. We could make higher gen dragons stronger, and cave blocker having some deadly attacks, as a way to make people want to keep more blockers on their scrolls and want to trade for higher gens..

 

Hope people like the idea

If you want to make a suggestion you should make a separate topic for it. Really flesh out the idea. (Also explain what you mean by "large scrolls" since you're excluding small ones, which is hardly fair. I have a gold trophy but less than 1000 dragons....where is the cut off for "large")

 

I can tell you, though that battling has been suggested before, multiple times and shot down hard. So, you will need to flesh the idea out and really explain what you want to do if you want to see such a thing ever be a possibility. I know I'd need a good argument to support it. I'm not against it, but I don't see any reason for it here at this time.

[Obscure_Trash]

I also have a suggestion for large scrolls, something I have been wanting to do for years: Scroll battles: If I attack https://dragcave.net/user/sheppardkid who would win ? I have a lot more brute dragons than he has but perhaps his superior army of White dragons with their white magic could give my brutes and plated colossus a run for their money!

 

Would be a fun thing to do for some people so it would have to be a thing you opt in.

 

But battles would be a way of leveraging our pages and pages of old dragons. Each scroll would be like a fort or "poke gym" defended by the dragons inside and people battle and win points. We could have tourneys and such, with different "weight classes" lightweight scrolls with bronze trophy or under would compete against each other, silvers compete with silvers, golds trophy scrolls could all compete on the same class or have a few tiers measure by # of dragons: 3,000 or less, 3,000-5,000, 5,000 plus. We could make higher gen dragons stronger, and cave blocker having some deadly attacks, as a way to make people want to keep more blockers on their scrolls and want to trade for higher gens..

So there's a bunch of fairly simple ways people have suggested to "make this game more interesting" including a battle suggestion: Battling. You could put your thoughts there so that the suggestion could get fleshed out a bit. :3

Edited September 2, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[VixenDra]

TABS/HIDE chosen dragon/s or/& tab/s

 

A dragon should be able to be sorted in as many tabs as the user wants/needs. Otherwise the mess will stay for the user will have to remember which of the tabs they decided to put the dragon into instead of the others the user needed the dragon to be in.

 

What DC lacks for me the most with its visual side is the ability to separate and hide dragons that don't actually belong to my scroll but I must have them to keep the game playeable in case of hoards of the 4 useful BSAs(Reds, Pinks, Purples, Magis) and in case of zombie fodders(which will be a thing for years to come it seems, with that riddiculusly low chance of success:/ about 15 tries in the proper time window and 0 turns, other users aren't much more lucky either...).

 

If certain tabs can be hidden from view for scroll visitors, I'll have use of tabs, otherwise I will not for I have just one simple goal and zero lineage projects(unles you counted expanding progenies of my pairs but that doesn't belong to my scroll anyway) and I have as many dragons as there are breeds +their alts multiplied just by 5(roughly because of the single-gender Holidays which I collect 3 of each), add the 4 BSAs and zombie fodders I hate to have showing up and that's all.

I may also have a tiny benefit of separating adults(actually just males or females) in one of the tabs for easier every-week scroll-wide breeding (3 hatchlings below each pair cause less adults to appear at a time on my screen and they also add to how many pages there are to go through).

So without ability to hide certain dragons and having them in a separate, hidden tab instead, tabs won't be of any worthy use to me.

 

 

 

It's like hiding growing or adult dragons BUT with ability to choose which PARTICULAR dragons are hidden while others are shown.

Could be part of tabs, could be independent, but with tabs it would have the organizing applicable for the account owner too. This way e.g. I'd be able to have those BSAs in one separate place(tab/folder) while also having those BSAs that I consider part of my scroll grouped together in one place with all the rest I want to hide(right now I'm hardly ever using these BSAs because they are mixed in with other breeds according to breed's release date). And obviously I'd like to be able to have the representative BSAs also placed in the tab/folder with the main(showing) dragons, not just the BSAs, and I'd be happy if I could also place them in the 3rd tab that would contain e.g. just the males of the coupels I want to breed weekly.

 

Ofc the easiest way to add/remove dragons from each tab would be:

user visits the tab(or its menu)->add dragons->pick/un-pick dragons from the full list of all your dragons(with tick squares[ ]/the 'custom sort' select way)->save/apply/confirm -> voila, dragons in your tag got updated

this would be quickest way for large scrolls BUT then the dragons showing on the list would need to have certain data somehow visible, could be by hovering or by being clickable lings to dragon's page. Aslo this is where tags would come useful.

 

 

 

 

ZOMBIES

 

And, now adding another feedback, which I already mentioned above in the topic of tabs:

please, rise the success chance for turning zombies... it's riddiculusly low all around the site as far as I've read and all it results in is that plenty of dragons are being pointlessly wasted... I believe the current chance should be at least tripled and it would still be VERY low - but well, at least not so hopeless...

(and ofc I'm speaking about the proper time window when zombies are visible)

The overall DC-round killing rate has grown riddiculusly high too since the change. And it will not drop back if the chances of successful zombie turn are almost non-existent like now, because people won't be able to reach their goals in years to come; also add new users to this.

I'm not even against killing pixels but this is just, well... influencing the game, isn't it? ESPECIALLY as the main zombie fodder breeds are the commmons!

 

 

 

PROGENY

 

Also one more thing, could, please, the killed offspring not vanish from parent's progeny, please? (Well, at the very least if the parents' owner decides so, or if the egg/hatchling/adult died off breeder's scroll...)

Edited September 2, 2016 by VixenDra

[Paradisiske]

there should be no limits on cb holidays, cb holidays should be rereleased seeing as how there's no such thing as hoarding in this game

 

we should also be able to get all three versions of the snow angels

 

 

and there should be a release, big or small every single month except for the holiday months

[Obscure_Trash]

there should be no limits on cb holidays, cb holidays should be rereleased seeing as how there's no such thing as hoarding in this game

 

we should also be able to get all three versions of the snow angels

Raise/lift CB Holiday Limits: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=166486

 

Semi-related:

Change how Holiday Drops Work: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=172805

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ha, just came here to suggest we implement more suggestions, and I've been very eloquently beaten to it! All hail Cyradis.

 

But seriously. I love DC, been here since '08, but at the same time the extremely slow addition of new features is frustrating. More accurate cooldown timers (your dragon can breed again on August 18th, 2016, at 5:17 PM or something versus the infuriating could be an hour, could be twenty three hours "one day left" message...) and heal are both really basic suggestions from YEARS ago that still, maddeningly, haven't been implemented yet.

 

There's also a whole gambit of other awesome suggestions out there that have sat for years without anything being done with them. Cyradis summarized a lot of the best of them excellently but to order my own thoughts I'll list a handful again. New BSAs (stargaze to influence nebula color, visualize to see what AP eggs you already picked up, harmonize and reconcile to reset refusals, storm to fog/unfog all your growing things at once, plus many other great BSAs I just can't recall atm), changes to the current teleport system so you can accept just part of a trade, the much hoped for 8th egg slot, better ways to sort and organize our dragons, a change to how breeding works (I spent months trying to do a spirit ward x Royal Crimson project that literally churned out over a hundred spirit wards to get one royal Crimson. Despite crimsons being common. And there are many similar horror stories of one common completely dominating another, giving people even MORE incentive to pay no attention to common breeds), an unfreeze function, kicking blockers to the AP, a limit of 4 CBs for Valentines/Christmases... the store... and I'd still really like to see dead dragons in lineages handled in a different way, so that someone can't trade me a dragon with a lovely line and then riddle it with random tombstones later on.

 

There's just a wealth of amazing year old suggestions that seem like they're never going to happen. We've had some great changes to the game over the years (the first BSAs, trophies, lifting bred holiday limits, GoN breeding, the return of Old Pinks and Frills woohoo!), but for the most part it feels like they come at a snail's pace. I'd happily forgo a month or two or even three of new dragon releases if it would mean seeing even half of the above projects launched. We got some nice updates with the old breeds returning and the zombies and what not for the 10th birthday, but I have to admit compared to what it could've been it was a bit underwhelming.

 

Now in the spirit of openness, TJ, if you read this, I know you have a real job now and DC is just a lovingly maintained side project. In which case I understand you might not have the time or financial incentive to prioritize updates like that. If that's the case, though, is there anything we can do to help? Could some type of forum rally for donations where X amount of donations = certain feature released within the year (like a baby Kickstarter, lol) be launched? Could we get an option to run a second line of ads if we choose to boost site revenue? Maybe the shop idea could be reexamined again? (Most of the art in the old store seemed rather hurriedly made, to my eyes, but there were some GORGEOUS art submissions of a realistic horse dragon and epic Sunsong in the shop thread that could definitely tempt me). I'm happy to give this game I've played so long some dough if that's what it needs to get more juice in it--but only if I know it'll actually get more juice in it, if you feel what I'm saying. If things continue as usual then I'll just keep looking at the ads instead.

This, still.

[DragonLady86]

there should be no limits on cb holidays, cb holidays should be rereleased seeing as how there's no such thing as hoarding in this game

 

we should also be able to get all three versions of the snow angels

 

 

and there should be a release, big or small every single month except for the holiday months

Sock already linked the other suggestions for the first part. but holiday re-releases: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=169053

 

Snow angels. NO. yes I like the other ones, but it is what makes the breed unique. Also, it would mess up their breeding mechanic. Instead of being whatever your scroll is set to, they would be randomized like Stripes/Nebs, and wouldn't that suck to have a lineage ruined for a year, because there is no way to tell wing color UNTIL THEY GROW UP. Unless you already know your scroll color.

Next you'll want everyone to have black and pink sweetlings. And, that's not going to happen. The blacks were a gift because a glitch and the artist has nixed the idea of everyone getting them.

 

 

Releases every month except holiday months...we already do get them? October, December, and February do not have regular releases. because of holidays. and June is a regular release but is listed as DC's birthday. Check the news threads.

[Fuzzbucket]

Sock already linked the other suggestions for the first part. but holiday re-releases: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=169053

 

Snow angels. NO. yes I like the other ones, but it is what makes the breed unique. Also, it would mess up their breeding mechanic. Instead of being whatever your scroll is set to, they would be randomized like Stripes/Nebs, and wouldn't that suck to have a lineage ruined for a year, because there is no way to tell wing color UNTIL THEY GROW UP. Unless you already know your scroll color.

Next you'll want everyone to have black and pink sweetlings. And, that's not going to happen. The blacks were a gift because a glitch and the artist has nixed the idea of everyone getting them.

 

 

Releases every month except holiday months...we already do get them? October, December, and February do not have regular releases. because of holidays. and June is a regular release but is listed as DC's birthday. Check the news threads.

This. Every word of it. And it's quite fun trading to get lineages with patterns of snow angels.

[Paradisiske]

People said in the most current release thread that there's almost never any releases in november and january. Soo....

 

 

And what so you want the entire userbase to never get all three forms of the snow angels because of lineages. I understand that it's frustrating with them only being able to breed once a year so why not change the eggs a bit to show which colour they'll hatch into to

[ewi]

 

And what so you want the entire userbase to never get all three forms of the snow angels because of lineages. I understand that it's frustrating with them only being able to breed once a year so why not change the eggs a bit to show which colour they'll hatch into to

Yep, exactly. We don't need all three forms. It's great that our scrolls have something unique and special about them. Really. Same with past Holidays CBs. You were not here then, so why should you have them?

[Paradisiske]

Because you guys already have trophies at the top of your scroll saying you were there and active back then. You don't need trophies in the form of dragons. Frankly it's unnecessary and you don't really need them to feel special and better than all the newer players. Once again you already have trophies and badges for that

[angelicdragonpuppy]

As someone here since Yulebucks id like to get all snow angels and see new players able to get past CB holidays.

[Fuzzbucket]

And what so you want the entire userbase to never get all three forms of the snow angels because of lineages. I understand that it's frustrating with them only being able to breed once a year so why not change the eggs a bit to show which colour they'll hatch into to

No - I want people to get the snow angel for which their scroll is coded. It's a bit of extra excitement and interest, is all. There are times I have wished I had alt sweetlings - but I know why they exist and it was very nice of their spriters to give up her own alt to compensate those who had lost all their eggs.

 

The spriters who create our dragons set them up in all sorts of ways for a reason. Who are we - who benefit from all their hard work - to say hey you have to do it a different way because WE WANT ?

 

Odeen was wonderful about the solstices - and more power to her for being that way - but if she had said no I would ABSOLUTELY have respected her decision. The (occasional, thank goodness) culture of ENTITLEMENT to have EVERYTHING THEIR OWN WAY sometimes depresses me here. there are things we can't have. There is FAR FAR more that is available to all.

 

And no - I don't want to be SPECIAL. I would love to have CBs of the holidays before my time - and 2 CBs of each would do nicely. But I am perfectly prepared to accept that the SAs I get will be rainbows - even though it is my least favourite of the three.

Edited September 30, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Paradisiske]

But what's wrong with asking? If you guys didn't ask for the solstices chances are it wouldn't be possible to get both versions. There is the chance that by asking the spriter of snow angels would be okay with people getting all three versions

 

 

Now I never said anything about getting the black sweetlings as well. I understand why some users have them and others don't and I am more than okay with it. But the snow angels aren't some form of apology for a glitch

[Fuzzbucket]

But what's wrong with asking? If you guys didn't ask for the solstices chances are it wouldn't be possible to get both versions. There is the chance that by asking the spriter of snow angels would be okay with people getting all three versions

 

 

Now I never said anything about getting the black sweetlings as well. I understand why some users have them and others don't and I am more than okay with it. But the snow angels aren't some form of apology for a glitch

Sure - but "why CAN'T WE" all the time, when there have been reasons given over many years and the spriters have weighed in and said no....

 

The solstices were a bit of a special thing, as the blue was so very unexpected and no-one had had any idea that it would happen until it did, so many planned lineages went down the tubes in one day, causing a major ruck on the forums ! SAs we knew as soon as we got them that that would be the only colour we'd get (indeed, in those days we could only have two AT ALL !)

[Paradisiske]

But it's been years since the snow angels were released and people can change their minds especially after a long period of time