Ascension

[edwardelricfreak]

When it said breeding with GoNs gives you Ascendeds, I though it was like the dragon still looks normal but upon reaching adulthood you can ascend it then.

 

But I'd still really like for older dragons (like 6 month old and no less) to be able to Ascend, too...

 

I guess breeding with a GoN could just be a second (and quicker) way to get an Ascended dragon, but of course you need the GoN first.

[Renhart]

Personally I don't agree with GoNs breeding ascended dragons for the reasons stated by angelicdragonpuppy. I DO however like the idea of ascension being granted after a certain amount of time; I'm thinking at least 1 year?

 

I don't see what's wrong with showing ascended dragons in lineage view but it might change the way some people view them. Ex: Someone asks for a 3rd gen gold with ascended grandparents. It might make trading more complicated.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Booo

[Shadoe666]

Excuse me for the somewhat simple idea, but what if we could ascend dragons that have a high enough amount of views, UV's, or clicks? and we could have an option on dragons sort of like freeze for hatchlings but instead for adults we don't want ascended?

[Obscure_Trash]

Excuse me for the somewhat simple idea, but what if we could ascend dragons that have a high enough amount of views, UV's, or clicks? and we could have an option on dragons sort of like freeze for hatchlings but instead for adults we don't want ascended?

I'd much rather have to purposely ascend dragons like purposefully freezing hatchlings rather than having to lock all my adults in place. JMO :3

[TemperedBreeder]

I'd much rather have to purposely ascend dragons like purposefully freezing hatchlings rather than having to lock all my adults in place. JMO :3

I'm on board with this.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd much rather have to purposely ascend dragons like purposefully freezing hatchlings rather than having to lock all my adults in place. JMO :3

Couldn't agree more.

[Naruhina_94]

Maybe an "adult freezing in groups" option could help at this point.

I would love to see an ascension stage, but I would like it only if there would be new different spriters for every dragon relased (I could understand Gon, Frilled, Old Pink, Unbreedables, Holidays and Prize to not have one). It would be an enourmous work, even if I think that it isn't necessary to have it for all of your dragons in one day. It could take even one year if the new spriters will be amazing as I think.

 

There would be the same Ascension for both male and females? I would like to see dimorphism, even if this would be a lot of work...

 

And it must be a way to keep a dragon at an adult stage, of course ^^

Edited March 12, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[xeyla]

I'd prefer to not have to breed to get an ascended dragon. If you went with the GoN idea, then there would be no Ascended CB Dragons

[Naruhina_94]

I'd prefer to not have to breed to get an ascended dragon. If you went with the GoN idea, then there would be no Ascended CB Dragons

Support this. Why there cannot be Ascendent CB dragon? It seems legit even for CB ones to grow up and become very old

[HeatherMarie]

*looks at recent posts*

 

Definitely against dragons automatically "Ascending" no matter *what* the format, whether time passed or views or what. We have enough drama to deal with when it comes to dragon sprites being updated with no warning, lets not make Ascension into *that*. Having choices is a good thing!

 

I like the idea of Ascension being something that *older* dragons can obtain, I'd personally say at least 6 months if not longer. I don't see why it should be based on views or anything that variable. I also don't understand the idea that it should only be available for lineaged dragons (or for CB dragons). That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[rumor33]

^I agree 100% that there shouldn't be automatic ascension. I really don't think that lineage should factor into it, it should just be something that you can attempt when a dragon reaches a certain age.

 

Though I wouldn't have a problem with only certain breeds having it, like only a few have alts. Maybe it isn't even like summon, were you can try again and again with a slim chance. Maybe only certain dragons have the ability to ascend. The option to try appears at six months, you try once and it does or it doesn't and thats that.

[KageSora]

I'm strongly against the idea of them needing to be hybrids.

 

I much prefer it being an action you need to take on your adults, and that lineage should play zero part in it.

 

I feel like ascending would be some sort of thing that a dragon can choose to attempt once it reaches a certain age (I'd argue no less than 6 months, but ideally a year or more since it matured). It could be explained that few wild dragons do it because those dragons that have human assistance preparing or whatever have a much better chance of succeeding. Or perhaps that it's actually a ritual devised by humans to aid dragons who wished to further themselves beyond what of their own innate power they could unlock on their own.

 

 

I don't mind the idea of a fail rate, provided it's not going to result in abysmal chances for success like Summon and that failing doesn't lock you out of attempting to ascend that dragon again.

 

 

Also very much against the idea of needing to freeze adults to prevent ascension. I'd much rather have to pick to ascend then pick to not ascend. Especially since I might be taking a long time to make up my mind--and older dragons that already fit the requirements might ascend before I can decide.

 

 

Also strongly against the idea of it being stat-based over time-based. It's quite possible to raise a dragon with fairly low stats--some people even try to raise them with the lowest stats possible. Why should it be that somebody might be JUST below the required stats to ascend a dragon they want to ascend? With it being time-based they can just wait it out. Unless adults gaining stats was re-implemented, that is.

[Zalmoxis]

I definitely don't like the idea of automated ascending.

I hate potions, to damn simple. Items, runes... many stuff more interesting.

 

To make it more challenging, ascending should be achieved through sacrificing another dragon or something similar.

 

I will also add conditions like...having a GoN or some epic species to be able to achieve such a feature. Age its a must as well.

 

Achieving ascension should be difficult. But not through chance, but through completing tasks. Therefore making it something rare.

 

Here are some tasks as examples:

- acquire a GoN

- wait 'till a certain age

- find a special item

- your dragon must breed with a certain species to first achieve enlightenment..

and so on...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I definitely don't like the idea of automated ascending.

I hate potions, to damn simple. Items, runes... many stuff more interesting.

 

To make it more challenging, ascending should be achieved through sacrificing another dragon or something similar.

 

I will also add conditions like...having a GoN or some epic species to be able to achieve such a feature. Age its a must as well.

 

Achieving ascension should be difficult. But not through chance, but through completing tasks. Therefore making it something rare.

 

Here are some tasks as examples:

- acquire a GoN

- wait 'till a certain age

- find a special item

- your dragon must breed with a certain species to first achieve enlightenment..

and so on...

I really disagree with sacrifice or breeding being involved. Ascension is reaching another plane of existence almost, great wisdom; how would cruel things like murder or base things like mating accomplish that at all? D;

 

I think just great age (still like a year) + maybeee some other task that doesn't involve the two things above is fine.

Edited April 22, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Zalmoxis]

I really disagree with sacrifice or breeding being involved. Ascension is reaching another plane of existence almost, great wisdom; how would cruel things like murder or base things like mating accomplish that at all? D;

 

I think just great age (still like a year) + maybeee some other task that doesn't involve the two things above is fine.

Breeding its an experience of great importance. Or it could made that only "virgin dragon" could ascend.

 

Sacrifice ain't murder. Death its a part of life as much as any other thing you must do to survive. To reach great wisdom, I believe things like DEATH (sacrifice) and LIFE (breeding to bring life) should be essential and very symbolic. Without understanding them, great wisdom can not be achieved.

 

 

[brairtrainer]

Breeding its an experience of great importance. Or it could made that only "virgin dragon" could ascend.

 

Sacrifice ain't murder. Death its a part of life as much as any other thing you must do to survive. To reach great wisdom, I believe things like DEATH (sacrifice) and LIFE (breeding to bring life) should be essential and very symbolic. Without understanding them, great wisdom can not be achieved.

I too am against putting breeding restrictions on dragons who ascend. I lifemate my dragons or choose certain dragons to never breed for story reasons. I feel such a requirement would make it harder for the player, especially since a 'virgin' requirment locks out older dragons.

 

Also how would you count breeding/virginity?

 

Would dragons who refused all their mates be considered virgins by the games code or would they count towards being bred?

 

If you have to require a certain breed to breed to how do you chose what that breed is? and what about pygmies and two headeds?

 

Edit: also this is a collecting game. If dragons died normally of old age I could see sacrificing for dragons who were close to the games death age but the kill action is only really for forcing eggs to hatch, getting zombies, or deadlines. I don't want another action that kills fully grown dragons unless it was a bsa that made sense to hit the dodgers.

Edited April 22, 2014 by brairtrainer

[InugamiZERO]

great wisdom can be achieved without slaughter and rutting

 

Age should be the only requirement a year or more then the action becomes available

[JavaTigress]

a 'virgin' requirment locks out older dragons.

 

I agree and , it seems to ME that it would be sort of contrary to the whole idea of the thing with the dragon being old and experienced and wise.

 

Maybe that is just me.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Breeding its an experience of great importance. Or it could made that only "virgin dragon" could ascend.

 

Sacrifice ain't murder. Death its a part of life as much as any other thing you must do to survive. To reach great wisdom, I believe things like DEATH (sacrifice) and LIFE (breeding to bring life) should be essential and very symbolic. Without understanding them, great wisdom can not be achieved.

I'm still picturing a cultist GoN dragon demanding my poor Liora ritually sacrifice her husband to him to get wisdom. Oh, and then telling her she has to breed with him, too. All said while he laughs like the maniacal creeper he is.

 

There are many ways dragons could learn about death and life without having to specifically engage in sacrifice or breeding, especially given how very old our dragons would be by that point. A solitary dragon who devotes their life to studying nature, a crippled male who takes in an orphaned human child, a female warrior who loses her friend during battle... all while struggling with the morality of whether the war is right, even if it seems justified. There are just so many other ways to learn about these things that I think demanding dragons be intentionally killed or bred for the purpose is just silly. Are you saying a 10,000 year old dragon can't possibly understand life until they go do it with another dragon, or understand death until they watch another dragon be killed right in front of their noses?

 

I still think something that simply tests wisdom is enough. While age alone can do this, I'll admit the idea of an event--something like a much lower key version of the haunted house or haunting in Aliset events--would be pretty neat, especially if it had artwork. Your dragon climbs up to some solitary mountain or whatever, and you have to answer a few questions to prove wisdom. Ones loosely tailored to your scroll would be especially awesome, and would work like a kind of "check" system:

 

- Has this user participated in the Haunted House event? Ask them a question about the house's mystery.

- Does this user own a Lumina dragon? Ask them a question about Lumina dragons.

 

And so on and so forth. Some generic 'what is wisdom' type questions thrown in on the side. Preferably the questions would shuffle between users and attempts to keep things from getting too easy...

 

Up to TJ if it'd be worth the effort, though.

 

As far as needing a GoN goes--I can see the angle, but at the same time, it seems cruel to punish those people who've had bad luck summoning with the fact that not only do they not have that elusive dragon yet, they can't ascend until they get one, either.

Edited April 22, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Zalmoxis]

I too am against putting breeding restrictions on dragons who ascend. I lifemate my dragons or choose certain dragons to never breed for story reasons. I feel such a requirement would make it harder for the player, especially since a 'virgin' requirment locks out older dragons.

 

Also how would you count breeding/virginity?

 

Would dragons who refused all their mates be considered virgins by the games code or would they count towards being bred?

 

If you have to require a certain breed to breed to how do you chose what that breed is? and what about pygmies and two headeds?

 

Edit: also this is a collecting game. If dragons died normally of old age I could see sacrificing for dragons who were close to the games death age but the kill action is only really for forcing eggs to hatch, getting zombies, or deadlines. I don't want another action that kills fully grown dragons unless it was a bsa that made sense to hit the dodgers.

First of all. A DRAGON is AGELESS! Therefore death its an experience that normally eludes their usual knowledge.

It should be like you, trying to understand a color out of human color spectrum.

 

Sacrificing would bring a bit more mature side to the entire event. You are not ready to give something as a price for knowledge? Then you are not ready for ascension.

 

Odin sacrificed his eye for enlightenment, Jesus sacrificed himself for forgiveness... and I could go on forever with examples of the meaning. I believe every mythology that ever existed had the concept of loosing something to gain something.

 

And after all, its a DRAGON, not a puppy!

 

Ascension is your choice, not anyone else.

 

Regarding virginity... if the dragon has no lineage descendants attached to it... we could say it is virgin (would represent purity). This is debatable.

 

Hmmm... All of this could be made a bit more complex, yet simple by introducing a reincarnation system. You sacrifice a dragon, and he either ascends, or he will reborn into a new egg in your inventory. This way all its age and breed counters would reset, and to ascend it would require another big chunk of time before trying it again.

In the same time if 'it understands' death, he doesn't return, but he ascends!

With this you avoid the murder status that was mentioned above, and there is more logic to it.

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

First of all. A DRAGON is AGELESS! Therefore death its an experience that normally eludes their usual knowledge.

It should be like you, trying to understand a color out of human color spectrum.

 

Sacrificing would bring a bit more mature side to the entire event. You are not ready to give something as a price for knowledge? Then you are not ready for ascension.

 

[...]

 

Hmmm... All of this could be made a bit more complex, yet simple by introducing a reincarnation system. You sacrifice a dragon, and he either ascends, or he will reborn into a new egg in your inventory. This way all its age and breed counters would reset, and to ascend it would require another big chunk of time before trying it again.

In the same time if 'it understands' death, he doesn't return, but he ascends!

With this you avoid the murder status that was mentioned above, and there is more logic to it.

I would not think a dragon who decided wisdom was worth sacrificing another's life very wise at all. It would also completely rule out peaceful dragons such as Whites and Mints from ever ascending.

 

And yes, dragons are ageless--but they can still die. They can be killed, get sick. They can see human companions and friends die. They can watch animals pass. Death is neither absent among dragons nor exclusive to them.

 

Also, wisdom can be found in many other ways--please see my response to your second post, a few posts above this one.

 

Not really a fan of the rebirth angle either.

Edited April 22, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[CNR4806]

I really disagree with sacrifice or breeding being involved. Ascension is reaching another plane of existence almost, great wisdom; how would cruel things like murder or base things like mating accomplish that at all? D;

"Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

 

That said, I'm more inclined toward having age as the only requirement.

 

Also, "ascending" with the power of evil should really be descension and have a seperate, evil-aligned sprite anyway, should the good/evil seperation become a real thing.

[Zalmoxis]

I would not think a dragon who decided wisdom was worth sacrificing another's life very wise at all. It would also completely rule out peaceful dragons such as Whites and Mints from ever ascending.

 

And yes, dragons are ageless--but they can still die. They can be killed, get sick. They can see human companions and friends die. They can watch animals pass. Death is neither absent among dragons nor exclusive to them.

 

Also, wisdom can be found in many other ways--please see my response to your second post, a few posts above this one.

 

Not really a fan of the rebirth angle either.

In a simplistic version, honestly, I agree with you.

 

In a bit more realistic one, not quite. You see... 'love'. No matter how much you see it, until you feel it, you don't really know what it means, you just speculate.

I, compared to many others, see death as an event of life, not as an individual element opposed to life. Just like reaching a certain age, having your first son, driving your first car, first kiss and so on ... you truly understand it when it happens to you.

 

 

'Reincarnation' was just a term. I could say 'trying to understand death by reaching a state close to it' would be more appropriate. The part with returning as an egg would make ascension far more rare due to lack 'spamability' once a dragon reaches a certain age.

 

Taking into consideration that this game its made to be simplistic, it will probably make ascension as you said. Either way, I love debates!

[JavaTigress]

"Is the dark side stronger?"

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

 

That said, I'm more inclined toward having age as the only requirement.

 

Also, "ascending" with the power of evil should really be descension and have a seperate, evil-aligned sprite anyway, should the good/evil seperation become a real thing.

NOW that is an interesting idea.

 

AND while I am totally not for making breeding a requirement, all I meant was that I don't think having offspring should EXCLUDE a dragon from being able to ascend, either.

[CNR4806]

The part with returning as an egg would make ascension far more rare due to lack 'spamability' once a dragon reaches a certain age.

So basically a Summon with a 1-year cooldown instead of 2 weeks. No thanks.