Question about a trade?

[19kzwonit]

Oh oops lol yea a tinsel

[_Sin_]

The drop in value between generations is very significant up until 5th or so.

2G: Worth almost any single thing - however much people are willing/able to give. Multiple CB metals, NDs, etc.

3G: Worth about one CB metal, depending on year, mate, color, and demand.

4G: Worth a few CB hatchlings, a lesser rare, or a Copper if you're really lucky/it's a desirable line.

5G and up: Maybe one CB hatchling. If there is something special about the line, possibly two.

My personal opinion is that 3G prizes, no matter how many, do not really equal the value of a 2G prize, and the same with 4G and 3G. This is because of breeding. A 2G breeds theoretically infinite 3Gs, but 3Gs only breed 4Gs. However, I know quite a few people would disagree with me on this.

Keep in mind everything, prize value especially, is purely subjective to individual opinion. Some people may be willing to trade well for a higher gen shimmer, some won't put much value on even a 2G. I'm just doing my best to synthesize hundreds of different opinions into a "chart".

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

[Ribombee]

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

I can't quite agree with this, to be honest. I can generally get a trio or a blusang, or some hatchies I need, for my gen 4 prizes other than the most common lineages. As we get further from the last raffle, there will be a decline in 2nd gens being produced, too, as people will get busy, leave the site, stop trading, etc. I find it is fairly cyclical. Yes, we have more prizes this year than ever, so there is a decrease in price. I find this to be a good thing, as it puts lower gens within a more reasonable frame. However, I can still get a pretty decent trade for mine all the way up to gen 4. Sometimes it takes a bit of patience, but it can be done. I don't even bother trading my gen 5s. I rarely breed my gen 4s, to be honest, so I can't comment on them.

[Mistress of Whispers]

Curious: How un/common are Green 2-headed Lindwurms and Undines from the Forest biome? I have a Cheese for trade and am looking for 2-3 hatchies of the above, but haven't gotten any offers. So I'm wondering if nobody is interested in Cheeses right now (it happens), or if I'm underestimating the rarity of those two breeds. I did realize it might also be a matter of not having them on hand right now, but my tradepost specifically accounts for that and points to the purple bit in my signature.

[Nerruse]

I don't think that's an issue of rarity so much as it is that you're offering an unbreedable *and* asking for multiple hatchlings for an egg. Unbreedables are less popular due to being unbreedable and also (some might aruge) kinda gimmicky. If you were open to eggs and/or reducing your hatchling request down to 1-2 you'd probably get better results. IMO.

[Dark_Angel12345]

What's the value of Almandines and Spessartines?

Would it be possible to trade one of these for a gold? Or more of a 2:1 ratio like silvers?

Does anyone know?

 

 

Also, about that question above I'll have to agree with Nerruse.

If someone wants a cheese and happens to have a couple of hatchies then definitely would offer, but I think way less would consider the possibility of an IOU as it's only a cheese.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

It's funny, I was thinking that 3GS are becoming useless myself (there are so many now!) but within a few minutes of posting a trade last week I got a CB Gold for a 2014 Gold Tinsel x GW line and another CB Gold for a bundle of less valuable prizes (iirc two Copper lines and a Sunsong line, all from older prizes and one copper line in particular from a very prolific line with lots of 2gs). So I guess it depends what people have on hand and are in the mood for.

 

[OrcaFreak]

It's funny, I was thinking that 3GS are becoming useless myself (there are so many now!) but within a few minutes of posting a trade last week I got a CB Gold for a 2014 Gold Tinsel x GW line and another CB Gold for a bundle of less valuable prizes (iirc two Copper lines and a Sunsong line, all from older prizes and one copper line in particular from a very prolific line with lots of 2gs). So I guess it depends what people have on hand and are in the mood for.

I can understand why you say that, but on the other hand: not everyone manages to trade for a second gen prize.

 

I keep reading that now there are so many CB prizes around, it's easier to obtain a 2nd gen; but I have not seen much difference between now and 2 years ago, when I came around.

 

When you can breed 2nd gens yourself, it's quite easy to trade them for other 2nd gens; but other than that, it's not always easy to get your hands on a 2nd gen. The trades for 2nd gens I've seen always ask for things I can never pay. (multiple CB golds or silvers; 2nd offspring from spriter's alts or thuweds; or neglecteds)

Of course there are also people that use breeding lists for their CB prize, but for some reason those lists are always full when I'm around. And even then you need to be able to pay the prize the breeder asks for; although those seem to be more reasonable than the more regular trades. Even if they ask for multiple (up to 50) CB hatchies of a specific species; it is something I can actually pay, although it takes some time.

And yes, I know: there are CB prize owners that hand out some of their 2nd offspring out for free, but I never seem to have luck on my side when it comes to things like that

 

What I'm trying to say is: Well, when you can breed 2nd gens yourself, or you have 'easy' access to them; 3rd gens are indeed worth a bit less. But for someone who doesn't have access to 2nd gens; a 3rd gen is worth paying for a little bit more, even if it's nearly impossible to trade the higher gen offspring

[Rubin]

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

3rd gen prizes still go for a lot and most traders will decline any offer not containing rares, at least in my personal experience (maybe I've just been exceptionally unlucky, who knows). I've kind of given up trying to get anything below 4th gen and generally mostly breed my Prizes to the AP or for the various Gifting threads if at all since they are virtually worthless on the trading market.

 

 

 

As for Cheeses I've found that they vary wildly in what people are willing to pay for them, probably also largely depending on how many are offered at any given time. I've gotten everything between CB Coppers and Common Hatchlings for the ones I've traded over time. It's simply a matter of how badly the person offering wants that egg and what they have on hand at the moment that they are willing to part with.

[Tehya Faye]

Are people with a CB Gold on hand just not interested in CB Silvers at the moment? I've seen a few CB Silver offers go ignored while trying to trade my own pair, which is a bit disheartening since I had hoped this would be a relatively easy trade to make.

[Esdren]

Are people with a CB Gold on hand just not interested in CB Silvers at the moment? I've seen a few CB Silver offers go ignored while trying to trade my own pair, which is a bit disheartening since I had hoped this would be a relatively easy trade to make.

I personally find CB Golds a lot harder to catch than silvers, out of the average 6-7 CB Silvers I catch a week I only catch about one CB Gold every month, if I'm lucky. So my personal ratios are ridiculous and for me I'd never trade a CB Gold for CB Silvers. :b

The base ratio for trading CB Golds and Silvers is just 2:1 though, for most people I think. If you wait a bit longer then you might still find someone who wants to trade with you.

[Tehya Faye]

They're definitely easier to catch, yeah. Still I did see a few offers not too long ago asking for only 2 CB Silvers for their CB Gold so while I do have other CB Silvers I could add to make the deal more enticing to potential traders I'm really hesitant to risk setting a precedent that could make it more difficult for others.

 

What I'm thinking about doing is letting this current trade run until the hatchling grows up, and then grouping the remaining 4 CB Silvers together into one trade. Then I could request offers and maybe get something more people are willing to throw a CB Gold at? Then again, I'm not active in the trading scene at all so I wouldn't really know what that would actually be. The whole idea itself might be terrible, and I haven't been active enough to witness the failure of these sorts of trades.

[shanique]

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

I think the replies above, stating that those who can't get their hands on a 2nd gen settle for 3rd gen and whatnot, because it's the only lowest gen they could possibly get without having the demands of most traders.

 

However, personally, I think the value of 3rd gens beyond rely on the actual rarity of the lineage.

 

Like, say, if someone trades a common prize line that has many offspring and a rare line of another prize that has only one 2g, I don't doubt that the latter is bound to get rarer offers. Maybe, the reason why people are still paying golds for 3g/4g nowadays is because of the "hey I'm first!" thing. You know, that one where they're the first to obtain a generation from the newer prizes, hoping that they'd have a higher trading value if they're the first to bring it to the trading market.

[Tehya Faye]

What I'm thinking about doing is letting this current trade run until the hatchling grows up, and then grouping the remaining 4 CB Silvers together into one trade. Then I could request offers and maybe get something more people are willing to throw a CB Gold at? Then again, I'm not active in the trading scene at all so I wouldn't really know what that would actually be. The whole idea itself might be terrible, and I haven't been active enough to witness the failure of these sorts of trades.

So, any advice on this? Is it a good idea? Bad idea? How should I phrase it to improve my chances of getting a good offer?

 

Setting a strict time limit for myself might encourage some gamblers to bite on a potential good deal, but there's also a chance that the only thing offered is something I definitely wouldn't be able to trade into a CB Gold. Can't really say it goes to the best offer of CB Golds since the absolute best I could get is 2, and if I don't get a bite early on others would probably assume that someone has already offered one, discouraging them from offering.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Nalyua]

So, any advice on this? Is it a good idea? Bad idea? How should I phrase it to improve my chances of getting a good offer?

 

Setting a strict time limit for myself might encourage some gamblers to bite on a potential good deal, but there's also a chance that the only thing offered is something I definitely wouldn't be able to trade into a CB Gold. Can't really say it goes to the best offer of CB Golds since the absolute best I could get is 2, and if I don't get a bite early on others would probably assume that someone has already offered one, discouraging them from offering.

 

Your problem, and I have already said this several times on different occasions and trades, is not a fairness-issue.

 

The problem is that high value trades are complicated in so far as having at hand what a CB Gold owner wants all the time is fickle.

 

Yes there are people with golds who would trade them for multiple silvers, yet they may not have a gold at the time you offer, or you may not have the silvers at the time they offer.

 

So the only advice I can give you is to try again and again until you and a gold owner happen to be on the same page at the same time.

 

If you don't want to put your silvers in a TP you can always say " PM me to arrange a trade" instead of posting Teleports, that is what I do if I want to keep my valuable egg unlocked to offer it in a trade if I see an offer that suits me.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Nalyua

[Tehya Faye]

See, if I were a more patient sort of individual I would try to arrange for an IOU with someone who seemed to be pretty trustworthy and capable. Unfortunately, I am not. Not at all. I'd leave them to get to it in peace, but I'd be really antsy.

 

Yeah, I guess I'll just leave them outside of a teleport link and ask for PMs. No need to bundle all the Silvers into a guaranteed price for the trader, but I can still let people know that I have them to offer.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[RecycledHeart]

How much is a cb Spessartine worth?

[Confused Cat]

How much is a cb Spessartine worth?

I'd say between a CB Copper and a CB Silver.

[RecycledHeart]

I'd say between a CB Copper and a CB Silver.

Okay thank you

[djengis]

I think your analysis is pretty accurate, maybe a bit too "generous". IMHO the "value" of 4th and 5th Gen Prizes is almost null, makes sense to trade to obtain them only for scroll completion goals. Nowadays, that's the case even for 3rd Gens: I smile when I see a 3rd Gen breeder asking for a CB Gold. Someone must really want to have that 3rd Gen in their scroll, since the children will be almost worthless. Considering the number of existing CB Prizes, the same will slowly becoming true for 2nd Gens. For example, I really, really, really want some 2nd Gens in my scrolls. Do I think that I will ever get back what I "paid" them for, when trading their children? Not at all. They are beautiful add-ons to my scroll but that's it.

.

I still get CB Coppers for 4th gen prizes , so they arent completely worthless.

 

[shadowfighter]

I still get CB Coppers for 4th gen prizes , so they arent completely worthless.

Yeah, and rarer lines, like ones that only have one child, will be worth more, especially if they are continuable. I got a CB Gold and Three CB Silvers for my rare third gen. *shrug*

[Ribombee]

Yeah, and rarer lines, like ones that only have one child, will be worth more, especially if they are continuable. I got a CB Gold and Three CB Silvers for my rare third gen. *shrug*

I still get trios and blusangs even for my more common 4th gens. I have a common glory lineage 3rd gen whose eggs I still get reasonable offers on, so long as I am patient with the trade. I find 4th gens make excellent trade bait for mates and CB hatchies I need, too. I like my 3rd gen prizes, even though I have a CB prize, because they are really useful for those sorts of things that I don't want to trade a 2nd or 3rd gen for.

 

There are people who like to make arrow and reverse arrow lineages with them, so if you catch those people, you can often get a nice trade. For me, I find it is more a matter of being patient, spreading out what times I post my trade ads (like morning will be stairstep/spiral thread, afternoon will be prize thread, and evening will be general trading thread, or whatever order I do it in). I also use Dragonmarket for more exposure. You do get a lot of junk offers from using Dragonmarket, but if you are willing to wade through those, you can also get some really good offers.

Edited May 8, 2015 by harlequinraven

[NotBambi]

I've been reading this thread and, while I sympathize with the point of view of the prize breeders, I beg to differ. Let's imagine that I spent 6 hours in the cave, my eyes are burning, my wrists are whining and there's an imminent CTS threat. Yes, I'm being dramatic but you get my drift. Here arrives a CB Gold and I catch it. Four hours and additional pain later, I catch another one. After bouncing up and down for a while, I fog the lucky catches and few hours later head to Prize Central. Uhmmm the trades available are several for 3rd Gen Prizes and one for a 2nd Gen Prize. The 3rd Gen breeders ask for 1 CB Gold, the 2nd Gen breeder is quite more vague. Guess to whom I offer my two CB Golds.

[Ribombee]

I've been reading this thread and, while I sympathize with the point of view of the prize breeders, I beg to differ. Let's imagine that I spent 6 hours in the cave, my eyes are burning, my wrists are whining and there's an imminent CTS threat. Yes, I'm being dramatic but you get my drift. Here arrives a CB Gold and I catch it. Four hours and additional pain later, I catch another one. After bouncing up and down for a while, I fog the lucky catches and few hours later head to Prize Central. Uhmmm the trades available are several for 3rd Gen Prizes and one for a 2nd Gen Prize. The 3rd Gen breeders ask for 1 CB Gold, the 2nd Gen breeder is quite more vague. Guess to whom I offer my two CB Golds.

I'm not sure I follow why prize breeders need sympathy. Are you saying you don't think prize owners should ask for a lot, or tthat we are too vague in what we are asking for? I'm not trying to be rude; I'm merely confused as to what your point is.

 

I think prize owners are often vague because we will accept any offer high enough. People will rarely have enough of a single type (such as silvers) to offer all at once. Being more vague can get a variety of good offers to choose from. Simply asking for "good offers" tends to get me better offers than being super specific. I have done that before with even something more common, like dinos. I don't always have a single thing in mind, so I just see what I can get for it.

[NotBambi]

I'm not sure I follow why prize breeders need sympathy. Are you saying you don't think prize owners should ask for a lot, or tthat we are too vague in what we are asking for? I'm not trying to be rude; I'm merely confused as to what your point is.

 

I think prize owners are often vague because we will accept any offer high enough. People will rarely have enough of a single type (such as silvers) to offer all at once. Being more vague can get a variety of good offers to choose from. Simply asking for "good offers" tends to get me better offers than being super specific. I have done that before with even something more common, like dinos. I don't always have a single thing in mind, so I just see what I can get for it.

Neither, I was referencing the points of view expressed by prize breeders in this thread. And I didn't perceive your post as rude. At all.

For what concerns being vague, actually, from my selfish point of view, that's a plus. When someone asks only for 2nd Gen swap with very specific mates etc. I get sad because I know already that I don't have a chance. Probably I don't have a chance anyway but for a bit I can dream.