ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

[Noonmutter]

This is my idea of frame:

No need bad colors.

 

I'm suggesting a simple BSA, as Splash.

This one could let you earn a badge, not influenced the game so much. This one could be used only by original shimmers and their offsprings.

Give you a Shyne Trophie <3

That frame obscures the dragon's name and is difficult to see against the scroll's base color, so no to that.

 

Also, the badges and stuff: Does anybody actually care about that? Is that a thing that adds value to dragons, sentimental or otherwise? I don't see people scrambling to get shallow water dragons.

 

The point of prizes is that they're prizes. A raffle is pure chance. It's fairer than any other method of obtaining dragons that the cave has to offer at present.

[Rosedamai]

I've said that even their offspring could od this BSA. If we can have their offsrpings we could have the trophie. In this way the offspring of the original prizes would still be required.

 

from sherizyia:

Again, in regards to mysfytt's reply, that's LITERALLY IN THE 40+ page OF THE OTHER THREAD that I don't go to because it makes me want to explode. How the hell am I supposed to find that in the OP of this thread?! I would like that would be referred to this one. Also I was under the impression that that applied to the "Coal" release, which is a separate thread from this one.

 

In regards to the BSA, I'm still highly doubtful that ANY rare dragon will ever get a BSA because that increases their desirability. By that logic Golds can get a BSA because their offspring can do the same BSA as a CB gold. Will they ever get one? Nope.

 

The point of prizes is that they're prizes. A raffle is pure chance. It's fairer than any other method of obtaining dragons that the cave has to offer at present.

Yes this. How long would it be before we see people complaining that it's so hard to get a prize dragon from the cave and that the fast clickers are hoarding them? Not very long, I should think.

Edited February 11, 2014 by ylangylang

[Sheriziya]

/sigh too?

 

First of all, I know the exact rebutals. I've seen them in the "improve the raffle thread" (I did go through every page and every post) and I've seen them here. The combo suggestion with which the "improve" was eventually closed was a result of combining several suggestions into one and continually changing that combo suggestion based on the comments in that thread (rebutal comments included!). You don't need to go through the entire thread to know that. You could simply check the post I've made in that thread if you want more specifics on how many times and how the suggestion has been changed.

In fact it's these rebutals I refer to, so stating them here again really doesn't help. At least it doesn't help me. Let me put it that way.

I didn't feel the need to list all the rebutals I'm referring to again. That seemed pointless.

 

-Because people want to keep the form of the raffle. They want the system of raffles to continue existing. By making them CB you're essentially taking that away. That's going to make people angry.

It seems you're focussing on one small aspect of the complete suggestion while ignoring the rest of the suggestion completely with this particular point:

Tinsels and Shimmers coming into the Cave. Yes, that's true, we suggest that.

BUT, we do NOT suggest the removement of the raffle. In fact we suggest the raffle continues! We suggest it continues with more, new breeds, that after a few years become HM's instead of prizes (making room for new prizes and possible breeds) again and then, after a few years again, become available in the cave. So, we do NOT remove the raffle, nor do we change the raffle system in it's basics. We only change the prizes!

 

Also what makes the raffle special for a lot of people is the fact that it's a random selection, which gives some measure of fairness to everyone, unlike by releasing it as a rare. There ARE people on this site who haven't caught any CB gold or silver. Keep that in mind.

Err...... I am very much aware of the fact that there are people who've never caugt any CB gold or Silver. I'm one of them! Heck, I've never caught a rare, not from the cave, nor from the AP. I was lucky enough to be gifted the ones I do have, like I've stated multiple times.

I do know and agree the system itself is fair. I'm NOT disputing that! Geez..... We're NOT changing the random selection. We're not changing the fact that people get an automatic entry into the raffle when they participate in the event. We keep that system EXACTLY AS IT IS now.

 

-That's because 1. I haven't seen you ask for spriters' permission and 2. because it doesn't matter, that's (from my sprite-collecting viewpoint) another set of breeds to get, because no matter how infinitesimal the difference is, it's still there.

1. Well, since it the suggestion was shot down by breeders even before we could discuss possible options and talk about those options to spriters, I saw no point (and probably the one who original suggested this (can't remember who) and others either) in asking Mysfytt nor Marrionetta for a possible adjustment to the prizes in the first place. BTW, Naruhina has just done exactly that a few posts above....... I think the recolor of the shimmer was related to the idea of the coal version. I've gone over the original thread and right now I can't find the particular other information. If I find it I'll post it.

2. That's exactly why, in the end, we TOOK OUT the idea (in the improve the raffle thread) to release an ALTERED sprite into the cave and instead release the sprite AS IT IS NOW into the cave. See... We LISTEN! We actually read all the comments and adjusted the original combo suggestion to the suggestion it is now.

 

-This to me feels like you aren't even reading the rebuttals people have seen.

I've been reading each and every post both here and in the original thread as well as in the other threads and I (and several others) have already made loads of suggestions and adjustments to the suggestion before it was put in it's own thread, here. It's not like this thread is the first thread this suggestion was ever discussed in.

 

Also unlike the other threads this challenges the concept of the raffle itself, which is making people a lot less receptive.

Besides that what I already pointed out above (the prizes change but NOTHING ELSE changes in the raffle!!!!) is supposedly changing in the raffle system? We do NOT change the concept of the raffle itself. Cause if it's the fact that we're talking about releasing the prizes into the cave (slightly/more altered or not), that particular part of the suggestion is in the suggestion because:

What's the base of this thread (and the "improve the raffle thread")?

Trading Value related

 

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

 

Breeding related

 

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

 

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

 

Prize pool related

 

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

 

Sentimental value related

 

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

non-forum scroll owners

 

Players who do have a scroll, but don't visit/use the forum or who are too shy/insecure/whatever to trade hardly have a chance at a (low-gen) prize dragon.

 

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments in several topics. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

Sorry for the rant, I'm tired of feeling like I'm talking to a brick wall.

I'm sorry, this is not meant as an attack at you, although it may seem like that, but you're not the only one feeling like talking to a brick wall I've repeated all the suggestions and the reasons for the suggestions so many times in the other topic that I'm feeling like I can repeat it all I want, but people simply refuse to read/digest it. Loads of things you said were already discussed in various forms and adjusted and adjusted again...... Like I already stated in my first post. It sometimes just feels..... pointless? Edited February 11, 2014 by Sheriziya

[Guillotine]

It's still preferable to the current situation; I have a flaky connection and a crappy computer, but I still managed to grab a Silver on my own (whooo, holiday biome-hunting :v), and I know that people do gift CB/low-gen rares fairly frequently (I certainly would, if my Silver cooperated for once!). Besides, unless TJ drops Prizes from the HM choices post-release (seems unlikely, given that almost all cave-available sprites are available for HM), slow clickers/the chronically unlucky would still have a chance at winning one via HM. And if the trades for Gold/Silver 2nd gens are any indication, it would be significantly easier to trade for a specific low-gen for a lineage if you can't catch a CB than it is now.

 

CBs and low-gens of any hard-to-get dragon will always be desirable, but this would at least make them more accessible to the masses after they've had their turn in the spotlight.

[Naruhina_94]

That frame obscures the dragon's name and is difficult to see against the scroll's base color, so no to that.

 

Also, the badges and stuff: Does anybody actually care about that? Is that a thing that adds value to dragons, sentimental or otherwise? I don't see people scrambling to get shallow water dragons.

 

The point of prizes is that they're prizes. A raffle is pure chance. It's fairer than any other method of obtaining dragons that the cave has to offer at present.

uff... this is a bad grafic example from me....

I'm not the one who do grafic updates, I suppose that any Artist could do a wonderful work, nice to see and perfect to distinguish.

 

Yes, there are people who likes to collect every badge. I've seen it in another suggestion: It talks about help each other and I've seen many post asking for a scroll sitter during holiday times, to collect every badge.

 

We are not taking aways this. The fair raffle system would remain (even if I don't see so fair 2 people who win twice, but this is another problem, don't talk about it).

It doesn't change that it would still be fairer than that if everyone could have a real chance to obtain something with their efforts.

I like to reward people who want play and not just sitting and hope that a prize falls on their head.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Sheriziya]

I like to reward people who want play and not just sitting and hope that a prize falls on their head.

But that's another topic, I think

[Naruhina_94]

But that's another topic, I think

?

I think is a good reward to relase prize dragons in cave for those who likes to play. Which topic are you referring to?

[CNR4806]

I've said that even their offspring could od this BSA. If we can have their offsrpings we could have the trophie. In this way the offspring of the original prizes would still be required.

 

from sherizyia:

So what's the point then?

 

You want to give a "privilege" to prize winners by giving them a badge that everyone and their dogs can get?

 

 

Besides that what I already pointed out above (the prizes change but NOTHING ELSE changes in the raffle!!!!) is supposedly changing in the raffle system? We do NOT change the concept of the raffle itself.

Not changing the raffle mechanics does not necessarily mean not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

The prizes are fundamental to the raffles, and it is simply impossible to claim that such big of a change to them would not mean any change to the concept of the raffle.

 

From the first raffle (which is a continuation of the 2010 tree decoration), the entire point of the raffle is to try your luck to get an exclusive dragon that cannot be obtained as a CB otherwise. By making these prizes available through other means is, by any definiton, changing the meaning of the raffle from "see if you can get an exclusive dragon" to "see if you can get an early access to a dragon".

Edited February 11, 2014 by CNR4806

[Sheriziya]

?

I think is a good reward to relase prize dragons in cave for those who likes to play. Which topic are you referring to?

Hmm... I think I meant to quote another errrr... quote? But I think I took the wrong one. And now I don't remember what I wanted to quote. Never mind. Just ignore that post

[Naruhina_94]

So what's the point then?

 

You want to give a "privilege" to prize winners by giving them a badge that everyone and their dogs can get?

 

 

 

Not changing the raffle mechanics does not necessarily mean not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

The prizes are fundamental to the raffles, and it is simply impossible to claim that such big of a change to them would not mean any change to the concept of the raffle.

 

From the first raffle (which is a continuation of the 2010 tree decoration), the entire point of the raffle is to try your luck to get an exclusive dragon that cannot be obtained as a CB otherwise. By making these prizes available through other means is, by any definiton, changing the meaning of the raffle from "see if you can get an exclusive dragon" to "see if you can get an early access to a dragon".

The badge would be obtainable only having their offsprings, this would be a privilege for their dragons... There are better suggestions to improve them than this one, anyway .

"An early access to the dragon" is a big prize in my opinion, just look what people offer to have a 2nd gen from them. There would always be people who don't want to wait and they will offer anything. Otherwise there would also been people who could try, but that could also wait until they are more easy to get, almost as 2nd gen.

This suggestion would make happy both sides.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

So what's the point then?

 

You want to give a "privilege" to prize winners by giving them a badge that everyone and their dogs can get?

 

Not changing the raffle mechanics does not necessarily mean not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

The prizes are fundamental to the raffles, and it is simply impossible to claim that such big of a change to them would not mean any change to the concept of the raffle.

 

From the first raffle (which is a continuation of the 2010 tree decoration), the entire point of the raffle is to try your luck to get an exclusive dragon that cannot be obtained as a CB otherwise. By making these prizes available through other means is, by any definition, changing the meaning of the raffle from "see if you can get an exclusive dragon" to "see if you can get an early access to a dragon".

Exactly. Either prizes are prizes - and therefore on the exclusive side - or they aren't.

 

Unless we run with the suggestion I made the other day, of ONLY awarding HM style eggs of the winners' choice - 4 for gold, 3 for silver etc.... GREAT prizes and no hassles afterwards

[whitebaron]

Exactly. Either prizes are prizes - and therefore on the exclusive side - or they aren't.

 

Unless we run with the suggestion I made the other day, of ONLY awarding HM style eggs of the winners' choice - 4 for gold, 3 for silver etc.... GREAT prizes and no hassles afterwards

great prizes, huh? not to me. I'd rather have a 1 in a million chance to get something exclusive, than a 1 in 50 chance to get something everybody can have. Because, chances are then, that i've already got enough of it as it stands,

[CNR4806]

The badge would be obtainable only having their offsprings, this would be a privilege for their dragons... There are better suggestions to improve them than this one, anyway .

"An early access to the dragon" is a big prize in my opinion, just look what people offer to have a 2nd gen from them. There would always be people who don't want to wait and they will offer anything. Otherwise there would also been people who could try, but that could also wait until they are more easy to get, almost as 2nd gen.

This suggestion would make happy both sides.

Regarding badge:

Do you have any idea how common prize dragons are if you ignore their lineage? If you don't, look at how "busy" Gifting of Prize Dragons is these days.

 

Yes, you did not see that wrong, there is currently ONE person on a thread that has a total limit of 120 spots. Those things breed like cockroaches if you aren't picky about only mentioning low gens. That's how easy they are to get, and they're almost all desecendents from the original prizes, as Penk and Jewel descendents are ultra-rare by comparison.

 

 

 

Regarding "early access":

I'm not even discussing whether this "early access" is a big prize worthy of winning or not. I'm merely annoyed by someone claiming that changing the raffle from "win an exclusive dragon" to "win an early access to a dragon" is somehow not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

I suggest you to actually read what's going on before replying.

[Naruhina_94]

Regarding badge:

Do you have any idea how common prize dragons are if you ignore their lineage? If you don't, look at how "busy" Gifting of Prize Dragons is these days.

 

Yes, you did not see that wrong, there is currently ONE person on a thread that has a total limit of 120 spots. Those things breed like cockroaches if you aren't picky about only mentioning low gens. That's how easy they are to get, and they're almost all desecendents from the original prizes, as Penk and Jewel descendents are ultra-rare by comparison.

 

 

 

Regarding "early access":

I'm not even discussing whether this "early access" is a big prize worthy of winning or not. I'm merely annoyed by someone claiming that changing the raffle from "win an exclusive dragon" to "win an early access to a dragon" is somehow not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

I suggest you to actually read what's going on before replying.

 

I still think that original prize dragons wouldn't be ignored if new ones would be relased for all reasons listed on the OP. We could also change them a little bit to make them more distinguishable.

It wasn't written anywere that prize dragons would stay CB only for the winners forever. So yes, it doesn't change the raffle since the winners could still be equally drawn, that is what really characterizes the raffle.

I would love to see different prizes, two head? Pigmy? Drakes? Lindwurm? Wyverns? they would be awesome, this is the only suggestion that would allow it!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[CNR4806]

It wasn't written anywere that prize dragons would stay CB only for the winners forever. So yes, it doesn't change the raffle since the winners could still be equally drawn, that is what really characterizes the raffle.

Congratulations, you just described the mechanics of how the raffle work.

 

Does anyone join the raffle because "the winners are equally drawn"? No, people are in it for the prizes, which are unobtainable outside said events.

[Naruhina_94]

Congratulations, you just described the mechanics of how the raffle work.

 

Does anyone join the raffle because "the winners are equally drawn"? No, people are in it for the prizes, which are unobtainable outside said events.

Yeah, you're right! I would seriously enjoi a raffle that doesn't give me a fair chance of winning.... Why not pull off of it the new players? They have not the same chance to win than anyone else, so why they should win? "irony"

 

Dragon Cave is always been a fair game, where you can collect everything with your efforts, and this is a circumstance where there are no excuses like holiday or retaired breed. Having this type of dragons CB only for some users has changed the game. Worse.

So we could improve it by relasing them or making their 2nd gen obtainable as a 2nd gen gold traded right now.

 

There are a lot of posts like:

 

-You have to deal with it, that's all. You are not entitled to be rich as a small group of people in this game. You could also never meant to be.

-Who cares if users are happy?

- Who cares if the winners are equally drawn, it's more important to win a prize and that is the only reason that makes people still enter on them!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Rosedamai]

Last time I reply to this thread because this ****ing thread is making my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels-

 

the raffles are way more fair and equal than anything the cave can produce. I can have a phone that can barely connect to the internet and win a CB prize. In the cave? Nah.

 

The end.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

great prizes, huh? not to me. I'd rather have a 1 in a million chance to get something exclusive, than a 1 in 50 chance to get something everybody can have. Because, chances are then, that i've already got enough of it as it stands,

What Fuzz meant was, instead of doing the Prizes, you could get multiple HMs. Not everyone can get CB Alts or Hybrids or Hollies by any stretch of the imagination, so not sure what you're basing your worry on.

 

(Still as awesome as it would be I don't think we can stop releasing Prizes now)

[Naruhina_94]

Last time I reply to this thread because this ****ing thread is making my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels-

 

the raffles are way more fair and equal than anything the cave can produce. I can have a phone that can barely connect to the internet and win a CB prize. In the cave? Nah.

 

The end.

And that's why we wouldn't change how winners are drawn.

 

angelicdragonpuppy, I agree, there is no way to stop releasing Prizes now this wouldn't be fair for all those who havn't won. All this brings to a one solution: make the frustration of not winning less frustrating otherwise we couldn't stop all this situation.

[LadyLyzar]

This thread is getting way out of hand. I understand this is a sensitive topic, but name calling and flaming is never acceptable.

 

Closing while I look it over.

 

 

~ TOPIC REOPENED ~

 

Even if a topic is controversial, you can still civilly debate each other without resorting to insults and unnecessary snark. Debate the topic and avoid attacking other users.

 

Thank you.

Edited February 11, 2014 by LadyLyzar

[KageSora]

Yeah, you're right! I would seriously enjoi a raffle that doesn't give me a fair chance of winning.... Why not pull off of it the new players? They have not the same chance to win than anyone else, so why they should win? "irony"

You're completely missing the point of that post.

 

The point is that most people are generally not in the practice of going "Oh, look, a raffle! I don't care how much I don't care about or even hate the prize, I'm going to enter anyway just because I have an equal chance of winning as anybody else who enters!"

 

No.

 

Most people only pay attention to contests that have prizes that interest them. I can't even tell you how many raffle-style giveaways I've passed up despite the fact that I could have as much a chance to win as anybody else simply because I don't care at all about the prize(s) being offered.

 

The mechanics of it are generally secondary to most people. Before they even consider if it's worth it to enter based on the effort and if the odds are stacked against them or not, they generally take a look at the prizes first.

 

If the prizes are uninteresting at best, they normally won't bother entering unless the requirements to enter are met by something else they were already doing (like, say, a store having a "every transaction gives you a game ticket, check to see if you won" kind of thing--if I'm already shopping there, fine whatever, I was going to buy stuff anyway so the entry isn't something that I even need to think about)

[Naruhina_94]

You're completely missing the point of that post.

 

The point is that most people are generally not in the practice of going "Oh, look, a raffle!  I don't care how much I don't care about or even hate the prize, I'm going to enter anyway just because I have an equal chance of winning as anybody else who enters!"

 

No.

 

Most people only pay attention to contests that have prizes that interest them.  I can't even tell you how many raffle-style giveaways I've passed up despite the fact that I could have as much a chance to win as anybody else simply because I don't care at all about the prize(s) being offered.

 

The mechanics of it are generally secondary to most people.  Before they even consider if it's worth it to enter based on the effort and if the odds are stacked against them or not, they generally take a look at the prizes first.

 

If the prizes are uninteresting at best, they normally won't bother entering unless the requirements to enter are met by something else they were already doing (like, say, a store having a "every transaction gives you a game ticket, check to see if you won" kind of thing--if I'm already shopping there, fine whatever, I was going to buy stuff anyway so the entry isn't something that I even need to think about)

You have a good point, but I would agree more with you if this wouldn't be a collectionable game. Even if Prizes would be bad looking or with very little differences from those that you can pick up from the cave in any moment there would still be many users who collect them, because they would be still different.

Look at Thuwed or Dorkface dragons. Many of them are very common dragons, aren't them? A little name can change everything.

A different way to obtain a Prize dragon wouldn't reduce the value of an original prize, because they would still be different from those that have been relased.

 

Finally I think that an even where you win a raffle ticket is made first of all to have fun. I loved the snow fort war and the gingerbread house, too! Winning is an extra (much desired) result.

You said that if the prizes are uninteresting at best, they normally won't bother entering unless the requirements to enter are met by something else they were already doing, but I don't see a funny event as something that annoys.

When someone participates in the Christams raffle the prizes are not specified: we didn't know if we would have got tinsel or shimmer or something else until January and even into the previously events it was not written anywere that the dragon that you could win wouldn't be never relased.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Sheriziya]

First of all, thanks, Lady Lyzar, for reopening this thread If my posts were snarky, my apologies. I was getting kinda..... frustrated, I guess the word is. Or is desperate the better word. I don't know. Anyway, whichever is the right one, my apologies if I've hurt anyone with my posts. I didn't intend to do that.

 

Regarding "early access":

I'm not even discussing whether this "early access" is a big prize worthy of winning or not. I'm merely annoyed by someone claiming that changing the raffle from "win an exclusive dragon" to "win an early access to a dragon" is somehow not changing the concept of the raffle.

 

I suggest you to actually read what's going on before replying.

 

Hmmm... I guess we can agree that you and I have different ideas of what our concepts of the raffle are

 

Also, just to quote a part of TJ's original post in 2010:

The first, second, and third place winners will each receive a variant of a never-before-seen dragon. Let's call these variants gold, silver, and bronze. First place gets the gold variant, second place gets the silver variant, third place gets the bronze variant.

2011 Merely refers to the prizedragons. Nothing about an exclusive dragon. And in 2012:

Winners of the raffle will receive an all-new never-before-released prize dragon.

I see nothing in here that suggests any exclusivity. It's something that's been assumed by many users because of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd prize status, but looking at those prizes as exclusive early-access release is just as viable. I've always looked at them like that, especially once the Shimmers were released. Once they were released, I always expected we'd get more breeds for prize dragons and nothing about exclusivity.

I guess where turning in circles about this point, though, cause I (and others) have stated this a couple of times in the other thread as well and others have shot that particular point down as many times.

 

With your explanation and KageSora's I can see how you feel the suggestions we've done change your concept of the raffle. From my POV I don't agree with you, but that's probably why we'll "have to" agree to disagree on that point

 

I guess the "early access being a good prize or not" kinda depends on what you're used to. I've been in games where early access to new content (here it could be translated to new dragons in my opinion), would be a great prize worthy of winning.

 

Regarding badge:

Do you have any idea how common prize dragons are if you ignore their lineage? If you don't, look at how "busy" Gifting of Prize Dragons is these days.

 

Yes, you did not see that wrong, there is currently ONE person on a thread that has a total limit of 120 spots. Those things breed like cockroaches if you aren't picky about only mentioning low gens. That's how easy they are to get, and they're almost all desecendents from the original prizes, as Penk and Jewel descendents are ultra-rare by comparison.

I've checked all the dragons in the Gifting of Prize Dragons thread. Yes, currently there's only 1 name on it. I wonder why that is, though. Is this due to the fact that prizes seem to breed... not good, as people claim? Or is it because the lowest-gen (genuine) that I could find (and I've checked ALL gifted dragons in the archives of the thread) was a fourth gen? There were some fake lower gens (zombified parents with long lineages, killed parents...), but that's it.

And one of the reasons we're looking for a suggestion is because breeders would like to have 2nd gen to build lineages with. From what I've heard they'd prefer CB prizes so that:

1. They don't need to bother prize owners for the 2nd with the mates they want (as in breeds), especially with the apparant difficulties of breeding and prize winners who might not want their prize to be combined with a certain breed. In other words: Take the pressure off the prize owners! Which apparently is something people still want, wether or not they're a breeder.

2. They can build lineages they'd like instead of having to use a lineage made by someone else the might a like a bit, but which is not exactly to their liking.

Mind you, like you I've stated several times, I'm not a breeder. At least not a big one. I've only done a few things for a lineage project of mine that had nothing to do with prize dragons and I've done holiday breeding, but that's it I have found some mates for the (higher gen) prize dragons I do have and I've planned to start breeding them when the Valentine event is over to continue their lineage. For the prize dragons personally I don't care that much about it being CB or not. However, it's not for me that I'm looking for a solution for this particular issue. Sure, I'd love to see the prizes appear in the cave after several years, especially when it's combined with new prize breeds. And it's for the reasons I've posted in the original post that I'd want them in the cave AFTER SEVERAL YEARS of being in the raffle:

What's the base of this thread?

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

ETA: Scrollowners who don't visit/use the forum, or are to shy/insecure to trade hardly have a chance in getting a (low-gen) prize dragon

 

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

Currently you need to "pay" an arm and a leg (and perhaps more) for a 2nd according to reports. Don't know what you need to pay to have a 2nd of your choice of mates. And that's apparently the big problem for the breeders. That's why they prefer CB prizes......

 

Look at Thuwed or Dorkface dragons. Many of them are very common dragons, aren't them? A little name can change everything.

Naruhina, I so agree with you! That's why I don't quite understand why people think prize winners wouldn't be remembered. Of course, TJ's special with the Thuweds because he's the owner of the game. But are these special dragons? Nope, not at all. In fact I've seen several dragonbreeds there that are so common they're actually on list for clearing the AP (like the Cave plumbers project).

The only thing that's special about these dragons is...... They're TJ's dragons.

As for the Dorkface dragons... What is so special about these dragons? It's one particular user, I understand. Cause apparently there are also fake dorkfaces. This particular user is remembered specifically because of this lineage. To quote the FAQ:

Q: What is a Dorkface?

A: Dorkface is the name of a popular lineage. The Dorkface Lineage are dragons that are related to one specific dragon - Midas Dorkface. It all started in 2008, when the owner ladiefare was trying to obtain a female Gold dragon, but the CB ones she caught kept gendering male. So she warned her newest Gold, that if this one gendered male, she'd name it Dorkface. It gendered male, and Midas Dorkface became his name. His mate is a white named Shallyna'ar. A dragon is a Dorkface if it is descended from Midas Dorkface and Shallyna'ar. After ladiefare went inactive for a little bit, the names ended up as The Original Midas Dorkface and The Original Shallyna'ar. The original names were offered back to ladiefare, but she liked the title The Original and so kept it.

Sure, it's a lineage that has a gold as a base dragon. But it's the story that makes this lineage so special. Don't get me wrong, I like the story!

Why wouldn't this be the case for the prize dragons from the raffle? Why would they all of a sudden stop to be special if a lineage created from two normal (as in non-prizes) dragons can become famous and highly sought after even 5,5 years since the creation of the lineage?

Perhaps that's the problem: we, or I at least, don't understand why the prize winners are "famous" now (at least those who have announced they're winners) and would suddenly not be famous anymore if there were also prizes in the cave. Golds are also in the case as rare dragons, just like we suggest. Whites are pretty common dragons. Nothing special there...... Please help me understand why the release of the prizes in-cave would mean so much difference in comparison to the Dorkface lineage.

After all, the only thing that's recognizable are the names of Midas and Shallynaar (both now have original as a prefix). There's no frame, no color code, not even something in the description of either Midas or Shallynaar about this story. So why are we able to easily recognize them and still want them? And why wouldn't we be able to do this with prize dragons which were from the raffle?

 

I'm kinda at a loss about that.... And I'm NOT being sarcastic or wahtsoever. I just really do NOT understand why it's possible for everyone to recognize the dorkfaces and be proud to have one, even it's a 20+ gen offspring of Midas and Shallynaar more than 5 years after the creation of the lineage (we're talking about only 2 dragons here of which one is a fairly common breed!) and we wouldn't be able to recognize the original prize dragons while they're stated on the wikia (with codes and even including name changes and reasons for name changes where applicable: Tinsels & Shimmers).

[Naruhina_94]

I have these lineages:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/px320

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ynNo3

http://dragcave.net/lineage/LYLz9

http://dragcave.net/lineage/kDJgG

http://dragcave.net/lineage/o9Cb9

http://dragcave.net/lineage/nkH6F

http://dragcave.net/lineage/1heIr

(and more)

 

As you can see I have more than one 2nd gen with a totally identical Lineage. I have 2 x 2nd gen Bleeding Moon x Silver shimmer. Where is the difference? They are two different CB Silver Shimmers--> Quantum Color and DivaZ.

The lineage (and the value) changes because the dragon changes. Not the Lineage. And that's why we could have in my opinion CB uorself.

I (and many others) want to collect even the same lineages from different CB Prizes dragons, even if the resut will be the same. In the same way also CB original Prizes and relased ones would result different.

 

Why are them so nice and valued? Because are from original prizes. I would NOT be so proud of them if these common dragon would have been from relased dragon in cave. I would like them as a 2nd gen common x Gold or Silver because the lineage would be the same, but the dragons would still be different.

 

In a game where every little detail is important because changes everything we should consider that. Look at ALT spriters. They could look a LOT different (as pink tinsel ALT) or they could look a LITTLE different (as the Winter magi ALT)

They are still both a lot required and in trades they value more.

Relasing the CB prizes in cave would "turn" all the Cb original Prizes in a sort of "ALT" for the common users.

-

They seem so similar, but the difference is big!

Edited February 12, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Qualeo]

Spriter alts are different colors though, so they're not comparable to this suggestion. They'd fit best with the "release a coal version" instead. Yeah that spriter alt isn't too different from the original, but the other ones are. They wouldn't become an "alt" unless they were a different color to be honest.