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Sheriziya

ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

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Can I make a note I made in the "No new Prize Dragons" Thread:

 

If lets say OPs plan is put to work, and that is how raffles are run from now on, I would like everyone to stop calling them 'prizes' because they will not be prizes, they will be pre-releases. Prizes incur that they are exclusive forever. You don't win a gold medal at the olympics for it to be given to everyone in the olympics 4 years later.

 

They will be CB planned pre-releases that people will have a chance at winning. To use the term 'Prize' on something that will not be exclusive only to winners is misleading and wrong.

 

Prizes are Prizes

Pre-releases are Pre-releases

Prizes cannot be pre-releases

Pre-releases can be won as Prizes

Though they cannot be called Prize Dragons.

 

Just thought I'd leave that note there for everyone. I really think this plan would be nicer if rather than releasing them to the cave, they where kept as HM longer and then retired from raffles but not from breeding. But I doubt all the "I want one too!" people are gonna let us actually have true prize dragons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, and in general, I was leaning more toward Prizes remaining Prizes, and if the spriters don't like the idea of a Cave Release, that sort of solidifies things for me.

 

I would personally like to see larger numbers of Prize dragons awarded, a significant increase in the breeding rate, and the enactment of the suggestion of the multiclutching among the first three gens of Prizes, and would regard that combination as probably the best, if a rather minute and gradual, alleviation of the issue, even if there are many who might disagree with my assessment.

 

But if nothing else, it would improve the psychological aspects of people now having some faint hope of perhaps someday being able to get a lineage of which they've only dreamed.

 

 

I would like to point out that many awards/prizes have traditionally been given out/labelled as gold, silver, bronze and that this does not necessarily show that the physical prize itself has greater exclusivity, simply that contests often use that formula.

 

Something labelled a gold prize might be anything, perhaps a larger sum of money than those labelled silver or bronze prizes, or a new car, or any number of things.

 

In a raffle, unless a really big one, it might include bottles of wine and other fine liquors, dinner for two at a nice restaurant, a stay at a resort - typically, a donated prize, and not anything exclusive.

 

We used to have raffles going on all the time around my area, generally to raise money for a charity or occurring at a wedding social, (which I gather people don't have in the US, poor devils!) but there were often a lot of little prizes in these little raffles, and I've never heard of there being exclusive prizes in any of them.

 

 

 

 

Hi, AnanoKimi, I'd just like to point out that the athletes at the Olympics are highly skilled and win tough international contests involving skill, intelligence, endurance, a lifetime of hard work and training - and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the prizes they receive are given out to each winner at each Olympic event, not exclusively.

 

They are also regarded as winning for their country, not just for themselves - ego is supposed to be set aside, and good sportsmanship is essential.

 

 

Raffle winners have the luck of the draw - the original lucky winners of each kind in the DC raffle got dragons which had never been seen before, but I failed to ever hear of TJ with hand-on-heart saying that 'nobody else would ever get your personal exclusive dragons' to the winners or to anyone else.

 

I have a poor 'recallery' and can hope that someone - anyone, lol, - with more accuracy than I may be able to provide may be able to step in, but I do seem to recall our having been told that at least one of the Prizes - the Shimmer, I believe - was initially intended for Cave Release, but was so beautiful and unusual that it also, like the Tinsel, became a Prize dragon.

 

The odds may have been very, very low of any of us winning, but those who won, won through random good fortune, and I would think that the notion of some of the benefits of this good fortune being potentially shared a little more with the community one way or another, would raise, rather than horror in some, a happy certainty that if these particular owners hadn't happened to win, they'd be very glad themselves of having their chances of a low-gen increased by any fraction, even if by having more 'others' win or otherwise gain more Prize dragons to breed.

 

 

I honestly have no idea where you gain any notion of any requirement that prizes must be something exclusive in order to be defined as a prize, although there, of course, I'm being provincial in regarding things common in North America as being common elsewhere, lol, which is very silly of me.

 

In my country, kids get prizes handed out at birthday parties in the form of small plastic toys or party favours they can blow through to make peculiar noises.

 

There used to be prizes in Cracker Jack boxes ( a type of decidedly non-exclusive candied popcorn) and in all sorts of kid's cereals.

 

When a prize is defined as 'something exceptionally desirable', it's being used in the sense, as given below, of referring to a prize hog, meaning a superior pig with characteristics that should be carried on in breeding, or a prize pumpkin, indicating a particularly large and pleasing specimen, or someone's mother might say that their father was a real prize, and that she was glad she'd married him.

 

It does not mean that only something exclusive can be a prize, nor that a prize needs even to be exceptional to be a raffle or other prize.

 

Words often have more than one meaning, and can often be used in different ways.

 

Understanding this matters, because an incorrect interpretation/misunderstanding affects your perceptions and your ability to understand various situations.

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prize

 

prize

noun \ˈprīz\

Definition of PRIZE

1

: something offered or striven for in competition or in contests of chance; also : premium 1d

2

: something exceptionally desirable

3

archaic : a contest for a reward : competition

Origin of PRIZE

Middle English pris prize, price — more at price

First Known Use: 14th century

 

Rhymes with PRIZE

guise, rise, size, wise

2prize

adjective

 

: given as an award or prize

 

: winning a prize

 

: very good or impressive : deserving an award or prize

Full Definition of PRIZE

1

a : awarded or worthy of a prize

b : awarded as a prize

c : entered for the sake of a prize <a prize drawing>

2

: outstanding of a kind <raised prize hogs>

See prize defined for English-language learners »

Examples of PRIZE

 

Dad brought back his prize catch, a three-foot striped bass.

I felt a prize fool for making such a stupid mistake.

 

First Known Use of PRIZE

1803

 

Related to PRIZE

 

Synonyms

A-OK, A1, awesome, bang-up, banner, beautiful, blue-chip, blue-ribbon, boffo, bonny (also bonnie) [chiefly British], boss [slang], brag, brave, bully, bumper, capital, choice, classic, cool [slang], corking, crackerjack, cracking, dandy, divine, dope [slang], down [slang], dynamite, fab, fabulous, famous, fantabulous [slang], fantastic, fine, first-class, first-rate, first-string, five-star, four-star, frontline, gangbusters (also gangbuster), gilt-edged (or gilt-edge), gone [slang], grand, great, groovy, heavenly, high-class, hot, hype [slang], immense, jim-dandy, keen, lovely, marvelous (or marvellous), mean, neat, nifty, noble, number one (also No. 1), numero uno, out-of-sight [slang], par excellence, peachy, peachy keen, phat [slang], prime, primo [slang], excellent, prizewinning, quality, radical [slang], righteous [slang], sensational, slick, splendid, stellar, sterling, superb, superior, superlative, supernal, swell, terrific, tip-top, top, top-flight, top-notch, top-of-the-line, topping [chiefly British], top-shelf, unsurpassed, wizard [chiefly British], wonderful ...

 

 

... prize transitive verb

prizedpriz·ing

Definition of PRIZE

1

: to estimate the value of : rate

2

: to value highly : esteem <a prized possession>

Origin of PRIZE

Middle English prisen, from Anglo-French priser, preiser to appraise, esteem, from Late Latin pretiare, from Latin pretium price, value — more at price

First Known Use: 14th century

4prize

noun

Definition of PRIZE

1

: something taken by force, stratagem, or threat; especially : property lawfully captured at sea in time of war

2

: an act of capturing or taking; especially : the wartime capture of a ship and its cargo at sea

Origin of PRIZE

Middle English prise, from Anglo-French, taking, seizure, from prendre to take, from Latin prehendere — more at get

First Known Use: 14th century

5prize

transitive verb

prizedpriz·ing

Definition of PRIZE

: to press, force, or move with a lever : pry

Origin of PRIZE

prize lever

First Known Use: 1686 ...

 

 

But of all of these meanings, it's never meant 'only something exclusive'...

 

 

 

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@Anano: as this suggestion is laid out, winners would have complete exclusive CB control for 3-4 years. Please note DC has only existed for about six. So half the cave's entire current lifespan in exclusivity. Hundreds of players knowing your dragon by code and name. Wanting its offspring. Multiple years of absolute trade market control, because people will not want to wait years for low gens if they can afford them now and even after they can many will likely value original lines just like they value Thuweds. You get a custom code, trade power, and fame for years, none of which people who catch them in the cave will ever get.

 

I really fail to see how, given those circumstances, your prize would be any less special. If I could have one of my beloved described dragons have the power and attention yours will get for a single /month/ I'd consider myself extremely well off indeed. Do you realize just how much power you have in the game, even if you don't want it? I cringe every time I disagree with a prize owner because I feel "there go my chances of ever trading with that person." The only other thing that half comes close to exerting that much influence is holly and alt owners and they tend to shower the APs with Holiday freebies anyway, so less cause to cringe if one seems to get irate at me.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Because it is not the attention I seek. I could care less if one or five thousand people jump on my back, going "Ooooooooh Pretty, me want~"

 

I've always seen prizes as something unique and special that only you get. When in school and awards where given out, everyone in school didn't get an attendance award. Only those with diligent parents that made them come to school even if they where dying of pneumonia got one. a year later, some other kid got one, and 3 years down the line only one kid would get one kind of award, and only one kid would get the other, and many times because I was lazy and rather dumb, I'd sit there empty handed.

 

A prize is something someone, or a small group of someones get for skill, luck, etc. Not something that everyone and their mothers get. I would not have seen so much value in getting a piece of paper that said "Good job, you did x thing. Good for you" if it was given to everyone every year, until I graduated. I would not deem that paper special, or worth my time and effort if I got one regardless of what I did whether it was then or 3 years down the line. If I got one three years later in mass I would have sat there and though "Why on earth did I try so hard to come to school every day for 3 years if I'd get one anyways, that wast stupid of me."

 

Same feeling applies personally to this. Why would I go through the trouble of clicking like mad at a raffle for a spot in it, or why would I go through the trouble of putting extra effort in a piece of art, a collection, a anything, if I can just sit back, play the game normally, and 3-4 years later I'll be able to get one, exactly that one, with little to no effort at all? it might not be 3 years old, but its still the exact, same, CB dragon you got 3 years before me. No color difference, no sprite difference, the exact same one, just later.

 

Really, its the same as when I buy gaming systems, clothes, hell food even. Why am I going to spend 2-3 times the money on something, when I can wait a few weeks, heck even months, when it will go on sale and I can get it 70% off or 40% off. Only those desperate and impatient enough drop $50 on a dress that in 2-4 weeks I can buy for $15 ;3

 

EDIT: I thought I would add this in here, then forgot, and well yeah.

 

Syphoneria, not to sound rude but I didn't know every single participant in the Olympics got a medal. I only figured it was 3 skilled people/group that over all out-shined the rest. I also didnt know that 3 Olympics later,everyone there got a shiny Gold/Silver/Bronze medal from the 3rd previous Olympic games. If thats the case then whats thepoint of trying so hard if even the ones that suck 3 years later get a medal. Whats the point of a game of skill if 3 years from then, everyone and their trainers get a medal. Why put the effort of training working out, sacrificing time, family, and relaxation when you could of just joined the Olympics 3 years later, blow it completely, and still get a nice, shiny 'prize'. If things worked that way I could probably try and sign up for the olympics with my little chubby but doing some random weird acrobatics if I can still get a pretty medal, I mean, its 3 years later, I should get one right? Or no?

 

Also, definitions may be proper, and they may not say 'Exclusive to the winner" But where in those definitions does it mention that it is something that can be obtained by anyone at any point in time regardless of luck or skill? Show me through all the definitions where it states that prize is not only won through luck and/or skill but can be obtained at any point in timeregardless of skill and/or luck. That sounds a tad contradictory to me, I wonder if it does to you guys too.

 

How can you be lucky or skilled enough to win a 'prize', but require no skill or luck later down the line whether it be days or years, and get a 'prize'?

Edited by AnanoKimi

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What about releasing them several decades later, if 3-4 years is not long enough?

 

Even copyright has a fixed term, expiring 50 to 70 years after the death of an author.

Edited by DarkEternity

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Because it is not the attention I seek. I could care less if one or five thousand people jump on my back, going "Ooooooooh Pretty, me want~"

 

I've always seen prizes as something unique and special that only you get. When in school and awards where given out, everyone in school didn't get an attendance award. Only those with diligent parents that made them come to school even if they where dying of pneumonia got one. a year later, some other kid got one, and 3 years down the line only one kid would get one kind of award, and only one kid would get the other, and many times because I was lazy and rather dumb, I'd sit there empty handed.

 

A prize is something someone, or a small group of someones get for skill, luck, etc. Not something that everyone and their mothers get. I would not have seen so much value in getting a piece of paper that said "Good job, you did x thing. Good for you" if it was given to everyone every year, until I graduated. I would not deem that paper special, or worth my time and effort if I got one regardless of what I did whether it was then or 3 years down the line. If I got one three years later in mass I would have sat there and though "Why on earth did I try so hard to come to school every day for 3 years if I'd get one anyways, that wast stupid of me."

 

Same feeling applies personally to this. Why would I go through the trouble of clicking like mad at a raffle for a spot in it, or why would I go through the trouble of putting extra effort in a piece of art, a collection, a anything, if I can just sit back, play the game normally, and 3-4 years later I'll be able to get one, exactly that one, with little to no effort at all? it might not be 3 years old, but its still the exact, same, CB dragon you got 3 years before me. No color difference, no sprite difference, the exact same one, just later.

 

Really, its the same as when I buy gaming systems, clothes, hell food even. Why am I going to spend 2-3 times the money on something, when I can wait a few weeks, heck even months, when it will go on sale and I can get it 70% off or 40% off. Only those desperate and impatient enough drop $50 on a dress that in 2-4 weeks I can buy for $15 ;3

If you fell so bad when you partecipate to a raffle maybe the Christmas game is not for you. It is designed to be funny and let you do something pretty, not to put you in trouble...

You are still doing unsuitable comparisons since going to school is duty and obligation and your final vote depends only by you and not by your lucky, as this raffle. I do not think that a winner of the Olympics can sell on the market many small versions of his medal, right? xd.png

You're right Anano, these dragons shouldn't be named "Prizes". They are gifts to all effects since the parameters to enter into the raffle are really low and accessible to everybody and they cannot count as an huge sacrifice for the users to do, because (as I said) they are designed to be funny and let you do something pretty, not to put you in trouble...

Honestly I don't see a gift (that would have the value of a CB gold) being so poor. If instead of shimmer and tinsel there were CB gold they would have been a prize ugly and miserable?

If a Prize is so exclusive they shouldn't breed at all, because I have an higher gen Prize too! I'm a winner! cool.gif

If they had been Unbreedables I would be more than happy to leave them to the winners! They would had been wonderful as GoN and Neglecteds. But they aren't unbreedables, so if someone said: they are exclusive beacuse I've decided this I have one and I'm the only one who has the right and I could care less if one or five thousand people jump on my back, going "Ooooooooh Pretty, me want~" I'm sorry but it seems much more selfish than not wanting to share this wealth. I don't want to be rude or aggressive, but if you don't care about the others why the others should care about you?

I apologize if it seems rude.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Same feeling applies personally to this. Why would I go through the trouble of clicking like mad at a raffle for a spot in it, or why would I go through the trouble of putting extra effort in a piece of art, a collection, a anything, if I can just sit back, play the game normally, and 3-4 years later I'll be able to get one, exactly that one, with little to no effort at all?

To be honest, I don't understand why entering the raffle is associated with a lot of effort and getting a CB rare with little to none? No offense meant, but it has always seemed the other way around to me: getting rares in the cave is difficult, making Neglected Dragons is difficult, using your own obtained CBs and forming a huge checker or another lineage project with them is difficult, while entering the raffle requires no work and yet gets the winner one of the most desired dragons on the site.

 

Breeding every week doesn't require actual effort either. Patience - yes, but that's nothing compared to sitting in the cave for hours and trying to catch a rare dragon. A 2nd gen from a dragon obtained by pure luck is currently worth way more than anything that can be found or bred in the cave and requires work and time. With the current situation with Prizes it's understandable, and I'm not saying that the winners aren't free to use that opportunity, but frankly speaking I can't say I like this concept.

 

Having read the thread, I actually have to say I agree with this suggestion. Several years of exclusivity are more than enough for Prize owners to get a lot of trades, spread the joy etc., and afterwards players will be given a chance to obtain their own CB, even if it's horribly rare in the cave, it will be something.

 

What I dislike about Prizes is that they are based on sheer luck. Other dragons one can get on their own and build a lineage they desire even if it's very scarce in the cave, if they try hard enough. "Try hard enough" isn't what happens in case of the raffle - there, it's just about luck, and winning basically provides you with a lucky ticket which has the potential to give you anything you desire. Again, I'm not saying that it's bad to be using that privilege if given, but the whole idea seems horribly wrong to me.

 

On a site that's about working on getting something, about catching, breeding, the concept of a Prize like that seems really out of place.

 

I have managed to trade for some 2nd gen Prizes before, and it feels nice because I have moved at least a bit in the direction of completing my scroll goal concerning them (by the way according to the way my scroll is formed ideally that's 6 2nd gen pairs of each - I can't say I'm looking forward to trying to obtain so many). But I have to admit that it feels pretty bad to be dependent. I'd like to be a self-sufficient player, who is able to fulfill their goals on their own. With Prizes, I cannot do that and need to rely on other people, their kindness, open lists and whatnot. It feels good to come to an agreement with a CB Prize owner, but I would prefer if I could work on completing my goals myself instead of stalking open lists, profiles, PMing offers and so on.

 

If it suddenly were announced that Prizes would eventually be released in-cave, I would still try to trade for 2nd gens while there are no CBs, by the way, and I'm sure there are many people like me. But at least such a change would be something to look forward to, for me, in terms of finally becoming free to play as I like and complete my goals without having to rely on other users. I'd be glad to wait several years for that, it's worth it.

 

Support from me.

Edited by ZzelaBusya

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What about releasing them several decades later, if 3-4 years is not long enough?

 

Even copyright has a fixed term, expiring 50 to 70 years after the death of an author.

I do find it appropriate to release the current prizes as legacy content several decades later if DC still exists.

 

It would remind people of DC's long (and by then proud) history and heritage, as well as reviving a breed that is long since dead with most if not all original prize owners having moved on.

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I wanted to try and argue about how really I would love nothing more than to gift my babies left and right if only they bred true and blah blah blah but better yet...

 

Why not simply remove contests in their entirety. Events like the flower thing, or collecting cute unique sprites that have no impact on the game its self is fine, but no raffles, contests, etc. We eliminate everyone's mentality that Prize winners are celebrities (Though I have personally yet to see everyone and their cats trying to kiss my butt for a second gen regardless of my sig because if we know anything is that celebrities have no privacy or rights to themselves because we are always invading it) and there is no "Well so and so has a pretty CB shiny I can't get, and I want one, so give me one too."

 

Problem solved. No need for arguments of "Lets keep the same prizes for ever", "Give everyone a Prize", "Or just improve breeding", "or none of the above because no." By eliminating things like contests, raffles, etc then we eliminate this serious lack of something pretty and nice that not everyone cant get. By eliminating these things, we allow room for plenty of new breeds (shiny or not) to grace the cave without people suffering because they cant have one themselves to do as they please.

 

Really, I believe just this entirety of contests and raffles should be eliminated. If these thing cause enough problems where we have to make issues of them, then why not just get rid of them? Why still keep them around knowing it will never satisfy anyone? This easy everyone has an opportunity at for example a tinsel, shimmer, any new dragon that is amazingly pretty. We can have more consistent releases, more peoples dragons could get accepted, and all those threads we stalk with amazing finished dragons that sit there for ever can be released more often. Don't you think that would be better?

 

EDIT: Fixed a few typos and stuff. But also wanted to add. It may not happen with the current prize dragons because well the spriters have a say in what is done with what they make. Sorry about that. Maybe they will be allowed to breed true for quite a few years to compensate for this, but I would really just like to see this whole problem eliminated. Just gone. No more problems of only like 100 people have this dragon and only about 65 are breeding so there's not enough, everyone will get one no matter what without needing to wait 3 years, 4 years. Everyone gets a chance at them the moment they are released into the cave.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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To be honest, I don't understand why entering the raffle is associated with a lot of effort and getting a CB rare with little to none? No offense meant, but it has always seemed the other way around to me: getting rares in the cave is difficult, making Neglected Dragons is difficult, using your own obtained CBs and forming a huge checker or another lineage project with them is difficult, while entering the raffle requires no work and yet gets the winner one of the most desired dragons on the site.

 

Breeding every week doesn't require actual effort either. Patience - yes, but that's nothing compared to sitting in the cave for hours and trying to catch a rare dragon. A 2nd gen from a dragon obtained by pure luck is currently worth way more than anything that can be found or bred in the cave and requires work and time. With the current situation with Prizes it's understandable, and I'm not saying that the winners aren't free to use that opportunity, but frankly speaking I can't say I like this concept.

 

Having read the thread, I actually have to say I agree with this suggestion. Several years of exclusivity are more than enough for Prize owners to get a lot of trades, spread the joy etc., and afterwards players will be given a chance to obtain their own CB, even if it's horribly rare in the cave, it will be something.

 

What I dislike about Prizes is that they are based on sheer luck. Other dragons one can get on their own and build a lineage they desire even if it's very scarce in the cave, if they try hard enough. "Try hard enough" isn't what happens in case of the raffle - there, it's just about luck, and winning basically provides you with a lucky ticket which has the potential to give you anything you desire. Again, I'm not saying that it's bad to be using that privilege if given, but the whole idea seems horribly wrong to me.

 

On a site that's about working on getting something, about catching, breeding, the concept of a Prize like that seems really out of place.

 

I have managed to trade for some 2nd gen Prizes before, and it feels nice because I have moved at least a bit in the direction of completing my scroll goal concerning them (by the way according to the way my scroll is formed ideally that's 6 2nd gen pairs of each - I can't say I'm looking forward to trying to obtain so many). But I have to admit that it feels pretty bad to be dependent. I'd like to be a self-sufficient player, who is able to fulfill their goals on their own. With Prizes, I cannot do that and need to rely on other people, their kindness, open lists and whatnot. It feels good to come to an agreement with a CB Prize owner, but I would prefer if I could work on completing my goals myself instead of stalking open lists, profiles, PMing offers and so on.

 

If it suddenly were announced that Prizes would eventually be released in-cave, I would still try to trade for 2nd gens while there are no CBs, by the way, and I'm sure there are many people like me. But at least such a change would be something to look forward to, for me, in terms of finally becoming free to play as I like and complete my goals without having to rely on other users. I'd be glad to wait several years for that, it's worth it.

 

Support from me.

*Claps in approval*

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I wanted to try and argue about how really I would love nothing more than to gift my babies left and right if only they bred true and blah blah blah but better yet...

 

Why not simply remove contests in their entirety. Events like the flower thing, or collecting cute unique sprites that have no impact on the game its self is fine, but no raffles, contests, etc. We eliminate everyone's mentality that Prize winners are celebreties (Though I have personally yet to see everyone and their cats trying to kiss my butt for a second gen regardless of my sig because if we know anything is that celebreties have no privacy or rights to themselves because we are always invading it) and there is no "Well so and so has a pretty CB shiny I can't get, and I want one, so give me one too."

 

Problem solved. No need for arguments of "Lets keep the same prizes for ever", "Give everyone a Prize", "Or just improve breeding", "or none of the above because no" By eliminating things like contests, raffles, etc then we eliminate this serious lack of something pretty and nice that not everyone cant get. By eliminating these things, we allow room for plenty of new breeds (shiny or not) to grace the cave without people suffering because they cant have one themselves to do as they please.

 

Really, I believe just this entirety of contests and raffles should be eliminated. If these thing cause enough problems where we have to make issues of them, then why not just get rid of them? Why still keep them around knowing it will never satisfy anyone? This easy everyone has an opportunity at for example a tinsel, shimmer, any new dragon that is amazingly pretty. We can have more consistent releases, more peoples dragons could get accepted, and all those threads we stalk with amazing finished dragons that sit there for ever can be released more often. Don;t you think that would be better?

Absolutly!

I would love to see this, but a nicer way to keep both (Raffle that makes happy even those who despite having a slow connection finally win something very nice AND a pretty Cave that allows you to play DC like some years ago, namely equally and like all other users) is relase the Prize in the cave after some years. Just to evitate this:

 

Solely in order to avoid situations like this drama:

~Removed; thank you for blocking out the name, but it's still easy to search for the post, so let's not call out other members like this~

 

I hope you understand.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Absolutly!

I would love to see this, but a nicer way to keep both (Raffle that makes happy even those who despite having a slow connection finally win something very nice AND a pretty Cave that allows you to play DC like some years ago, namely equally and like all other users) is relase the Prize in the cave after some years. Just to evitate this:

 

Solely in order to avoid situations like this drama:

~Removed~

 

I hope you understand.

The only way that works is rather than 1st-3rdplace winners, there is only a huge pool of HM winers that can get anything available in the cave. This way no one gets something no one else can get and everyone gets something nice still.

 

Still to some extent a prize but still something pretty available to everyone. Sounds good actually.

 

I still want tinsels and shimmers to breed true more often than no if their not released into the cave. It would be a shame to still not spread their babies like chocolate rain on everyone. trust me. You do not know how bad it irks me that its been 2-3 breedings and I have gotten ZIP from that blasted dragon. NOTHING, that is so aggravating. I think hes sterile and that freaks me out because these plans of "Oh I'm gonna gift these to everyone and try to spread the love" are dying so fast. I want to cry really.

 

Also, that image of that trade. That image.... who on earth is that selfish! really, that is pure eil, having so much to give and being so selfish. I would keep my first CB metals I find, any metal after that would be gifted to people without CB metals. and if I see one of those poor newbs trying to trade something small for CB metals I would trade with them in a heart beat f I was blessed enough to get so many CB metals and other super rare CB stuff.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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To be honest, I don't understand why entering the raffle is associated with a lot of effort and getting a CB rare with little to none? No offense meant, but it has always seemed the other way around to me: getting rares in the cave is difficult, making Neglected Dragons is difficult, using your own obtained CBs and forming a huge checker or another lineage project with them is difficult, while entering the raffle requires no work and yet gets the winner one of the most desired dragons on the site.

 

Breeding every week doesn't require actual effort either. Patience - yes, but that's nothing compared to sitting in the cave for hours and trying to catch a rare dragon. A 2nd gen from a dragon obtained by pure luck is currently worth way more than anything that can be found or bred in the cave and requires work and time. With the current situation with Prizes it's understandable, and I'm not saying that the winners aren't free to use that opportunity, but frankly speaking I can't say I like this concept.

You've touched here on what I think is the biggest problem with the prizes and the raffle system currently - legitimacy. Barring the tree comp, which was skill-based, everything else has been "dragons magically poofed onto scrolls based on chance". And the player-base does not consider that to be a legitimate way to receive a dragon. For everything else, there's an obvious "effort in => reward out" component, be it hunting for CB rares, summoning (ish? takes a lot of patience, I suppose), breeding a tricky lineage, making a ND. People have a good handle on those activities and what's involved in them. The raffle, in comparison, doesn't seem to have that effort/reward connection. Prize dragons were not acquired "legitimately" according to the user-base (prize owners didn't catch,* breed, summon or create them themselves) and thus we get all these "fix the raffle!" threads, because if so-and-so can get a dragon that way, why not me/everyone else?! I have no idea whether this attitude will shift as we have more raffles and the prize base increases with time, but I honestly think it's the root cause of so much of the fuss. No idea how to address it as an issue, though. *shrug*

 

 

*Ummm, with a certain exception...

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@Anano: unless one of the very suggestions being discussed right now is added (not necessarily this one, although it'd have the biggest impact for sure), cutting the raffles doesn't eliminate the problem--it makes it worse. People are upset about how rare these things are in low gen / CB form when more are being added every year or so. Cut that new blood and I guarantee you frustration will increase, not poof.

 

And if the situation does improve, I'd rather see a new type of raffle than their ending, I think. Maybe pure HMs, but gold winners get four, silver three, etc. CB Hybrids / Alts / Custom codes are awesome and would be a great prize without skewing the player base as strongly (at least I hope so!). After all the only route to get a prize is through the winners, even if it's indirect, but everyone can get 2gs of the other stuff through their own efforts.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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@Anano: unless one of the very suggestions being discussed right now is added (not necessarily this one, although it'd have the biggest impact for sure), cutting the raffles doesn't eliminate the problem--it makes it worse. People are upset about how rare these things are in low gen / CB form when more are being added every year or so. Cut that new blood and I guarantee you frustration will increase, not poof.

 

And if the situation does improve, I'd rather see a new type of raffle than their ending, I think. Maybe pure HMs, but gold winners get four, silver three, etc. CB Hybrids / Alts / Custom codes are awesome and would be a great prize without skewing the player base as strongly, I think. After all the only route to get a prize is through the winners, even if it's indirect, but everyone can get 2gs of the other stuff through their own efforts.

Well elminating them would not kill new blood, its just they wouldnt be "Ooh I won them in a raffle" dragons. They would be released like any and all other dragons before the existence of prizes even came to be. Rather than fight over what Amazon_Warrior made a perfect post about, we would really put that aside.

 

So rather than waiting to be part of a raffle, you could wait once a month/ once every two weeks for something new and shiny to flood the cave.

 

Rather than having to wait 3 years for something in a contest to flood the cave and watching those lucky few try and fail constantly to breed pretty second gens, everyone would get an eaqual chance at getting something new and shiny and doing as they please with them.

 

and if contests are continued, rather than adding new prize dragons, instead of 10 1st, 20 2nd, 30 3rd, and 30HM, we would have 90-100 HM able to pick from anything available in the cave.

 

and the prizes that do exist, TJ would have to at least let us be able to breed them better so we can get more shinies out of them to spread the shiny tinsel/shimmer joy.

 

That is my view on it.

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But as much as I agree, that would be unfair to the people who DID get prize dragons from raffles. They wouldn't be able to flaunt their special dragons. Because everyone else would have it sooner or later.

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But as much as I agree, that would be unfair to the people who DID get prize dragons from raffles. They wouldn't be able to flaunt their special dragons. Because everyone else would have it sooner or later.

Please Melomancer, try to read all the last 10 pages, we are already discussing about this and trying to find a solution good for almost the majority and the winners-

Edited by Naruhina_94

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@AW Legitimacy is a motive, but clearly the main one is self interest.

 

If legitimacy was the true motive, there would be widespread support for effort based (not skillbased) efforts, such as clicking significant numbers of dragons and going through complex tasks for a guaranteed reward. I support this kind of system, because it has worked for sites such as GPXPlus.

 

I'd much prefer to see a sequence of tasks, each guaranteeing a reward. E.g

Task 1 - guarantee of a common

Task 2 - guarantee of an uncommon

Task 3 - guarantee of a rare

Task 4 - HM prize

Task 5 - Prize dragon

 

The advantage of this system of guaranteed prizes for achieving more complex tasks is that we no longer have to worry about the argumwnt that people should be excluded because they have already won x times. Furthermore, if people know what reward they get for x tasks, it provides a clear goal in mind. A clear basis between effort and reward. Then we could finally keep releasing new prize dragons, one every year, and/or past ones being deferred to HM.

 

Surely, if legitimacy was the clear motive, there would be more support for effort based systems, to give winners the footing that the prize was won/deserved based on effort/achievement.

 

But there isn't support.

 

Either people naively believe they can win, or they are disadvantaged because they don't have the time or they just don't want to bother: hence the continued ongoing support for really simple tasks with a practically zero chance of success.

 

More legitimacy would mean that winners are better defended and strengthen their position, but it would not guarantee immunity so long as jealousy exists. AW, you of all people know that catching Lucky Catch gains you respect and a degree of 'legitimacy', does it not? But suggestions will still go on.

 

In spite of it all, people will still envy, suggest and try to hold onto what they have.

Edited by DarkEternity

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I still want tinsels and shimmers to breed true more often than no if their not released into the cave. It would be a shame to still not spread their babies like chocolate rain on everyone. trust me. You do not know how bad it irks me that its been 2-3 breedings and I have gotten ZIP from that blasted dragon. NOTHING, that is so aggravating. I think hes sterile and that freaks me out because these plans of "Oh I'm gonna gift these to everyone and try to spread the love" are dying so fast. I want to cry really.

 

Also, that image of that trade. That image.... who on earth is that selfish! really, that is pure eil, having so much to give and being so selfish. I would keep my first CB metals I find, any metal after that would be gifted to people without CB metals. and if I see one of those poor newbs trying to trade something small for CB metals I would trade with them in a heart beat f I was blessed enough to get so many CB metals and other super rare CB stuff.

 

I think this reaction is completely normal in both categories, you appear to have a good attitude with your dragon, even if he is being stubborn (don't give up and don't worry wink.gif) I think this is where the issues come into play as some gift and some trade and some trade hard - all perfectly feasible ways to play the game as every player to themself.

 

That example of a trade, this is what causes these discussion threads a lot of the time, as there are plenty of those examples to be had...

 

I am stalking this thread thoroughly as there are good arguments both sides to be had.

 

EDIT: Also though that player has probably put a lot into hunting those eggs, while it does not spread the wealth as such, we do not know the plans if they do not get the trade. There are plenty of giftings to be had

Edited by lilacamy931

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You'd rather wait anywhere between 2 to 4 years for a chance to get a CB/low-gen of a breed rather than try to get a shot at being one of the few to have one for that very lengthy time period? Even 2 years is a pretty long time to have near-exclusive control of what lineages exist for that dragon, not to mention the trade issue, and that's banking on the raffles being amended to 2/year; with the current timing, it'd be four years. Four years will be half of DC's lifespan in May.

 

I really feel like people aren't thinking about how immensely huge these numbers are for a pixel dragon game, even a fairly long-lived one. You're part of an exclusive group for a long time, and even after they're released they'd be rares--not exactly valueless, there, since even 2nd-gen Golds and Silvers can go for quite a bit. And that's without the ideal of giving the ones won from the raffle some kind of visual indicator of their prize status (because it'd be rude to the winners to not at least have a marker next to the dragon's name).

 

V I support this suggestion; I'm pointing out how silly it is to deem Prizes "worthless" because they will in the distant future be released to the cave.

Yeah I'd rather wait. When I got my Gold i was excited for maybe 2-3 minutes and when it finally got to an adult there was no excitement anymore. Even if I got a CB one now I don't think it'd really do much.

 

Prize dragons are only obtained one way as CB and adds a level of excitement to this site that otherwise can be very boring for some. I have all the dragons besides a few Dinos and a ND. So Prize dragons to me are on the same level as those are for the time being. Them being released in cave is just one more CB I have to sit and hunt for for years and never obtain just like Silver and Gold ones. Gets boring sitting there refreshing a page while a raffle I have something to do even if it's just little. The Snowforts were fun and I would love to see that come back at some point too.

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Maybe the reason there are so many trades like the one being described is because of the fact that we can't get 2gs any other way other than PMing people.

 

Perhaps the person offering the trade does not want to unnecessarily bug people with messages about 2g babies?

 

That's what dependency looks like, it's been like that for four years, that's the way it will stay for the rest of DC's life.

 

We look with contempt upon those who are trying to trade for 2gs but do not forget that we are not all able to swap for 2g prizes and hence perceived greed is the result of necessity and not choice.

 

It's a lot more difficult to hunt and actually catch CB metals than it is to breed and get them for an offspring of a dragon you bred. Why is there dso much pressure to give for free what you have worked and earned for? People are not obligated to give you what they have up for trade to you for free, nor are people entitled to beg and nor are prizewinners obligated to share eggs.

 

Choice would imply that we are able to obtain 2gs and CBs ourselves but we can't, so demonising people attempting to do so is both futile and unnecessary. If we keep prize dragons as rare as they are to conserve their specialness, rest assured that there are plenty of offers where that came from.

Edited by DarkEternity

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@AW Legitimacy is a motive, but clearly the main one is self interest.

 

If legitimacy was the true motive, there would be widespread support for effort based (not skillbased) efforts, such as clicking significant numbers of dragons and going through complex tasks for a guaranteed reward. I support this kind of system, because it has worked for sites such as GPXPlus.

 

I'd much prefer to see a sequence of tasks, each guaranteeing a reward. E.g

Task 1 - guarantee of a common

Task 2 - guarantee of an uncommon

Task 3 - guarantee of a rare

Task 4 - HM prize

Task 5 - Prize dragon

 

The advantage of this system of guaranteed prizes for achieving more complex tasks is that we no longer have to worry about the argumwnt that people should be excluded because they have already won x times. Furthermore, if people know what reward they get for x tasks, it provides a clear goal in mind. A clear basis between effort and reward. Then we could finally keep releasing new prize dragons, one every year, and/or past ones being deferred to HM.

 

Surely, if legitimacy was the clear motive, there would be more support for effort based systems, to give winners the footing that the prize was won/deserved based on effort/achievement.

 

But there isn't support.

 

Either people naively believe they can win, or they are disadvantaged because they don't have the time or they just don't want to bother: hence the continued ongoing support for really simple tasks with a practically zero chance of success.

 

More legitimacy would mean that winners are better defended and strengthen their position, but it would not guarantee immunity so long as jealousy exists. AW, you of all people know that catching Lucky Catch gains you respect and a degree of 'legitimacy', does it not? But suggestions will still go on.

 

In spite of it all, people will still envy, suggest and try to hold onto what they have.

People are also lazy and want to be handed stuff on a plate. *shrug* I dunno how many threads I've seen come and go about making it easier to obtain rares other than spending hours and hours hunting for them.

 

Also, I don't play any other collectable game other than DC, so I have no idea how it works on Game X, Y or Z, but it seems that the DC community "got burned" by the tree comp and is highly reluctant to entertain anything skill-based as a result, for the simple reason that not everyone is skilled at the same things. Personally, I wouldn't have any serious objection to a time-based achievement, but I'm only one person.

 

No, there is no protection from jealousy; there cannot ever be when one person has something that other people do not. That's hardly a problem confined to DC though, or there'd be vastly less crime in our societies than there is.

 

Regarding Luckiest Catch, I still feel that there was an enormous element of luck in me getting her - I could so easily have refreshed a fraction too soon or late, not clicked fast enough, not even been there to catch that egg. In my mind, the luck element vastly outweighs any personal skill element. I have no idea how what I felt at the time would compare to getting a winner's email, though. Also, to my knowledge I'm the only person it's happened to. I am very extremely much the exception here, not the rule.

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Maybe the reason there are so many trades like the one being described is because of the fact that we can't get 2gs any other way other than PMing people.

 

Perhaps the person offering the trade does not want to unnecessarily bug people with messages about 2g babies?

 

That's what dependency looks like, it's been like that for four years, that's the way it will stay for the rest of DC's life.

 

We look with contempt upon those who are trying to trade for 2gs but do not forget that we are not all able to swap for 2g prizes and hence perceived greed is the result of necessity and not choice.

 

Choice would imply that we are able to obtain 2gs and CBs ourselves but we can't, so demonising people attempting to do so is both futile and unnecessary. If we keep prize dragons as rare as they are to conserve their specialness, rest assured that there are plenty of offers where that came from.

Absolutely this, plus every player has their own goal and intentions, whilst everyone can make their minds up individually, each player has the right to play their way.

 

On the note of it is this way or pming prize winners. I have happily approached winners via pm adhering to any profile/signature wishes. Some people I have chatted to would be horrified to approach anyone they did not know. So sometimes an open trade to the public is the only way to go

 

EDIT: @AW I honestly think you are the luckiest prize winner due to the circumstances ohmy.gif and still wonder to this day who abandoned Luckiest catch

Edited by lilacamy931

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It's always going to be that way. In all honesty, I should object to catching things as well (topic of the thread) because it is inclined towards fast clicking and reflexes as well.

Edited by DarkEternity

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Well getting rid of this thing we call prize dragons could potentially fix everything. Those who already have them should push for better breeding, and those who don't should push for better breeding and the removal of contests/raffles.

 

Instead let us allow new dragons both shiny or not to be released more often into the cave.

 

-users do not have to wait for a contest or raffle to get something shiny or new

-Users have equal access to obtaining all dragons year round save for holiday specific dragons.

-Users will be able to have more than one CB compared to the 1 CB per winner. This means more 2nd gens for everyone.

-If contests/raffles continue, no placement prizes. Only HM winners who can pick from any existing shiny, non shiny, etc, in the cave.

-No more lack pf pretties or pretty gen 2 and lots more lineages.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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I'm a little confused and surprised, I don't want to misinterpret what you have written, but it seems that you're more inclined to relase Prize Dragon in Cave, now. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I've not right translated your last posts in my own language. smile.gif

 

If contests/raffles continue, no placement prizes. Only HM winners who can pick from any existing shiny, non shiny, etc, in the cave.

 

The solution proposed in this topic would allow other Dragons issued as special prize, to allow each species (Lindwurm, two head, pigmy drakes, etc. ..) to have their own representative "prize-type".

Sheriziya in her Open Post had explained it very well. I think that it's more balanced than completely erase the raffles out of the blue.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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