ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

[Sheriziya]

This thread is being closed because raffles have been re-introduced in the cave. After we see how the new system is, if someone would like to suggest this or something similar, they may start a new thread.

 

Update:

a year has passed and as far as we know nothing has changed yet to the actual prizes, so this topic is still "valid" sorta speak. In the last year we've talked about many possibilities but none came out as a final solution. With a new year, many people have started thinking about it again, including me. Based on old and new comments and suggestions, I've made a new proposal, which you can read all about here. In short, this is it:

Taking into consideration:

 

I see several people fear there will not be enough CB Tinsels and Shimmers,

 

Marionetta has stated that she wouldn't do a recolor for a coal version of Tinsels and isn't really enthusiastic about releasing the Tinsels into the cave,

 

and others have said that with new breeds we could perhaps introduce a new mechanisme,

 

we have no January release up until now and many players think it's a long wait until the February Valentine release

 

I'd like to propose the following:

Base:

* All future prize breeds are an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and alts/variations like the Snowangels and the Black Sweetlings. This alt coloring will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the non-metal color is released into the cave at the same time the prizes are send to the winners. Let's say the actual prize is the prize-winner's Alt and the non-metal is the normal breed which gets its release in the cave in January (Yay, we have a January release from now on!).

* Shimmer-scales & Tinsels stay as prizes in the Raffle

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle (I assume any solution we will come up with will NOT be implemented this year):

Raffle 1: Shimmer-scales and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes (1, 2 and 3) in raffle, like we already have had with the Tinsels and Shimmer-Scales. Dragon 1 normal non-metal color is released into the cave permanently as the January breed release.

Raffle 2: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release.

Raffle 3: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version now becomes available for HM as CB.

Raffle 4: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 4 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release. Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version now becomes available for HM as CB.

Etc.

 

Also, a few other suggestions have been made this year, but per TJ's policy, it cannot be discussed here, but instead each has it's own topic, like the ones from previous year already listed below:

* Distributing New Prizes/Special/Limited Dragons

* Increase the raffle winners pool

 

 

Introduction to the topic:

 

We've been discussing this particular topic in combination with other solutions to improve the raffle. We all like to have a shot at getting a prize dragon. There were several reasons to start the original thread and I'd like to recap a few of these here as a base for our discussion:

What's the base of this thread?

Trading Value related

 

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

 

Breeding related

 

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

 

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

 

Prize pool related

 

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

 

Sentimental value related

 

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

non-forum scroll owners

 

ETA: Scrollowners who don't visit/use the forum, or are to shy/insecure to trade hardly have a chance in getting a (low-gen) prize dragon

 

 

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

Per TJ's request several base suggestions from the above linked combo suggestion have been put into separate threads, including this one. The other suggestions which already have threads are:

* More "Holiday" and "Raffle" Times

* Improve Prize Breeding Ratios, For science!

* Fertility Rework

* Put hatchies first in AP, or sort AP by caught / bred date

* Release a Coal-version of the prize dragon

* No new Prize breeds, please!, Keep Tinsels & Shimmers as the Prizes

* Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

 

The original combo suggestion and this thread were started on the assumption that TJ might want to use more prize dragon breeds besides the current eastern and western breeds. After all, we've got loads more kind of dragons and types, like the pygmies, lindwurms, drakes, etc.

IF TJ decides to keep the Shimmers and Tinsels for all eternity (or: as long as the game runs, which is hopefully for years to come!), this whole topic might become moot, because more and more people would eventually have CB prize dragons.

 

Please read the time-limited suggestion (with thanks to Vhale!) here.

Please read the suggestion for a release with a "prize winners alt" here

My suggestion is as followed:

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle:

Raffle 1: special dragon 1 for prizes (1, 2 and 3) in raffle, Shimmer-scales and Tinsels retire and become available for HM as CB.

Raffle 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels are still retired and available for HM as CB.

Raffle 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels become available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave.

Raffle 4: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 is still retired and available for HM as CB.

Raffle 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB.

Raffle 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon  2 is still available for HM as CB.

Raffle 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available from now on as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB.

Etc.

 

What would be the consequences of this?

• Exclusivity: Original CB Prize owners will have a true exclusivity for about 4 years/raffles (2 years/raffles of the dragon as a prize in the raffle + 2 years/raffles possibility to choose the dragon as HM amongst a variety of other possibilities). After that I think they'll still have a certain exclusivity as they are the ones who started the original lineages. Also many of the original prize dragons are listed on the wiki and I think players will keep asking for offspring of these lineages, like others already stated. AND the prize dragons would become RARE dragons in the cave, like the Golds and Silvers so it wouldn't be like everyone can easily get them.
• All players (Like Fuzz stated in the Improve raffle thread) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle (albeit limited to 4 years/raffles per prize dragon species), including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". After those first four years/raffles those people will have a chance in the cave too, but it might be limited to connections, etc.
• We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.
• The trademarket gets balanced again. Obtaining rare dragons becomes a possibility (still with hard work) for new(er)/casual players too instead of this only being available to those who have been here long and/or can be here all the time to catch and/or breed everything they need for the high-end trades. And thus prize dragons become something all players can get at some point, instead of something that's "dangling over our head, always just out of reach".
• More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.
• ETA: non-forum scrollowners now also have a better chance to get a (low-gen) prize dragon
• IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it?

In the above consequences I've excluded the things which are strictly related to the other suggestions. Although I do still think all the "base" suggestions from the original thread can NOT be seen separately, TJ prefers to discuss them separately and that's why I made the decision to exclude thos consequences.

 

Questions remaining

1. Will prize dragons now actually produce more prize dragons (as in ratio questions)? I don't know. Some say they breed perfectly fine, while others say they're hard to breed. Apparently this is also dependant on the mate you choose. It seems changing a mate might actually help in getting better results. I do think, though, we have a better chance to get more prize dragons into the community. Please discuss this in the appropriate topic!

2. Will it stop shiny hatchies from growing up through the AP? That's the big question. That will only happen if a solution for that particular problem can be found for that particular problem.

3. Anything else that's not been answered/solved?

 

ETA:

4. Would the Prizes only drop in certain biomes? That might help in the "frustration" of getting the wrong rare dragon. (thank you LibbyLishly for the question)

 

Thanks for reading this and for helping us to improve the suggestion!

Edited May 21, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler

[cyradis4]

I'm ambivalent.

 

On the one hand, I'd love to get a CB prize, of each color, and multiples. On the other hand, they are Prizes, and releasing them in-cave kinda defeats the purpose of that. And creating a new super rare in the cave, where 7 *rare* dragons share the same description, strikes me as a recipe for disaster. Remember Frills, anyone? I've always been sure that the sprite bashing that happened was because they shared the same description as Skywings (which people wanted because of Bluna breeding).

 

We also have no idea if TJ is going to retire either breed. Its entirely possible that he intends to keep the same two breeds forever. I'd be in favor of that.

 

So..... Not sure. There are pros, and there are cons, and I don't think either outweighs the other.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Sheriziya]

Indeed, we don't know if TJ is going to keep only the current prize dragons. That's, I guess, the million dollar question

If TJ decides to keep only the current prize dragons, this whole discussion can immediately be closed as this part of the total suggestion is based on the idea there will be more prize dragons in the future.

 

The schedule does give the possibility to have more releases of special dragons, though, with the backlog of 500+ dragons in mind which does contain several awesome dragons which perhaps could be used as prize dragons as well

 

Perhaps TJ wants to test the grounds to see if there's interest in more prize dragons? After all, this suggestion was part of the base of the combo suggestion and TJ explicitly said each base of the suggestion should have it's own suggestion topic......

 

Would it really be such a problem if the prize eggs would have the same description as the gold egg in the cave? Cause we already have lots of eggs with exactly the same description in the cave so I guess the situation would be different from the Frill/Skywing "problem"?:

• This egg has multiple bands of color on it: red and purple dorsals
• It's bright. And pink.: Flamingo Wyverns and Pinks
• This egg has strange markings on it: Horse, Ochredrake, Skywing
• This egg resembles a glowing stone: Sunstone, Moonstone
• A cool mountain breeze blows around this egg.: Tan and purple ridgewings (debatable since it's both ridgewings)
• This egg has brightly colored markings on it.: White Striped and Spitfires
• This opalescent egg shimmers in the moonlight.: Purple and Green Two-headed Lindwurm (Debatable since it's both lindwurms)
• This egg looks like it doesn't belong; it is brightly colored with white spots. It's much lighter than the other eggs.: Blue and Purple Dino

Granted, the highest amount of breeds sharing the same egg description is three, but it's not like we don't have it at all. True, getting a gold instead of a gold tinsel when you're hunting for tinsels would be.... what exactly? A disappointment? It's a rare too, after all. But that's just my humble opinion

 

[tjekan]

Is there going to be a separate thread for suggesting a special in-cave variant of a prize dragon (a black shimmerscale was most commonly brought up in the earlier thread)? Because I think releasing CB prizes into the cave is unfair to the prize winners, but I'm all over the black recolor. (Mostly just because I'd kill for a black and silver eastern dragon, LOL, but I also think it would make the raffles less stressful to newbies!)

[LibbyLishly]

I would agree that having seven breeds with the same description in the cave is far too many. Horse, Ochredrake, and Skywing can be differentiated between based on which biome you're in; same with Stripes and Spitfires. Would the Prizes only drop in certain biomes? Would they be in different biomes based on their color? Short of a change of egg description, that's the only way I can see people not throwing things at their computer screen when they manage to catch one of these uber-rares, but the wrong one.

 

Even with that, though, just in my own opinion, I'm not a big fan of having Prizes in the cave, even on the (slightly convoluted) proposed schedule. It defeats the purpose of having CB Prizes in the first place to me, which, well, some people would prefer, but I personally don't.

Edited February 6, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Sheriziya]

Is there going to be a separate thread for suggesting a special in-cave variant of a prize dragon (a black shimmerscale was most commonly brought up in the earlier thread)? Because I think releasing CB prizes into the cave is unfair to the prize winners, but I'm all over the black recolor. (Mostly just because I'd kill for a black and silver eastern dragon, LOL, but I also think it would make the raffles less stressful to newbies!)

Yep.

 

I'll post that one in about half an hour. Have to get dinner first

[purplehaze]

Even with that, though, just in my own opinion, I'm not a big fan of having Prizes in the cave, even on the (slightly convoluted) proposed schedule. It defeats the purpose of having CB Prizes in the first place to me, which, well, some people would prefer, but I personally don't.

I agree. It doesn't seem to me that this is the right answer to the problem. A Prize dragon that is available in the cave is no longer a Prize dragon. If you win a Prize and then a few years later everyone can have a CB Prize, then yours is no longer special -- unless they are uber-rare in the cave, and then it would not really address the complaints anyway.

[CNR4806]

While this would somewhat fix the "low gen prizes are ultra-rare and extremely hard to obtain" problem that average players experience, there is one major flaw that I find to be crippling:

 

The Prize dragons will eventually get less unique than some specific HM choices.

 

Let's say A won a shiny all-new gold prize dragon, while B won a HM and decided to get a CB Alt Black. While A will enjoy having an ultra-rare CB dragon that few have for a few years, it will ultimately be released to the general public and rendered normal. At the mean time, B's CB Alt Black remains accessible only through raffles while A's gold prize rapidly loses uniqueness (and by extension, value of offsprings).

 

It's like the first prize being an annual $100,000,000 for three years and the supposedly-lesser prize being an annual $50,000,000 for life. It makes no sense.

Edited February 6, 2014 by CNR4806

[Draco Knight]

I was never a very huge supporter of an in cave release, but i really like this idea. The reason i like this idea so much is that it makes the Raffles like exclusive early access to super cool dragons, not exclusive only access to super cool dragons. Are there any actual winners that would begrudge the fact that eventually the prize they won will be a cave dragon? I honestly don't think so.

 

Winners get to enjoy a few years of being the only oness with a CB of a particular dragon, a very desirable particular dragon, before that dragon is retired to the cave as a rare in cave sprite. So they go from ludicrously rare and ridiculously special to rare and special, after a few years. I really don't see the problem. This seems like a very tidy solution, with s bit more work.

 

@CNR4806: That is a very good point, I suppose it could make HMs more desirable than actually winning.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Draco Knight

[Naruhina_94]

I have an opinion, not presuming to speak for anyone else.

A Shimmer or a Tinsel are not Prize dragons. They are Metallic dragons and the Prize consist in having had them before than anyone else.

Those who won a CB Shimmer or Tinsel have had a big Prize because they were able to dispose of an entire new breed that depends all by their choiches.

 

They have not earned "only" a new metal dragon in advance of all other users. They have earned even all the dragons who have been paid for their offsprings! Which means that if I have got a CB Shimmer that can produce forever 2nd gen Gold Shimmers I can even trade forever its offsprings for one ore more dragons from other users.

I'm not saying that it's wrong. This is a Prize after all and the owners have all the right to do that!

But not forever, because this becomes unfair, since they didn't do nothing more than other players to have this due.

They would still have a CB shimmer that would be recognized, they would still have had a big Prize.

 

If some of them say: "Knowing that I would have choose another prize, like an Holly!"

I would say: "Knowing that Holiday limits would be removed I wouldn't freeze one of my CB Holidays..."

ANYWAY I would still understand them, and I would let them to choose ANOTHER prize, because they didn't know.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[cyradis4]

I was never a very huge supporter of an in cave release, but i really like this idea. The reason i like this idea so much is that it makes the Raffles like exclusive early access to super cool dragons, not exclusive only access to super cool dragons. Are there any actual winners that would begrudge the fact that eventually the prize they won will be a cave dragon? I honestly don't think so.

 

Winners get to enjoy a few years of being the only oness with a CB of a particular dragon, a very desirable particular dragon, before that dragon is retired to the cave as a rare in cave sprite. So they go from ludicrously rare and ridiculously special to rare and special, after a few years. I really don't see the problem. This seems like a very tidy solution.

Except at least one prize owner posted in the previous thread that they most deffinitally DID mind. It was Gold Epica's owner, Lorimmel. I'd like to hear from more Prize owners. And I'd also like to hear from TJ on if there's a good chance of getting more prize breeds.

 

Because if eventually tinsels and shimmers get retired... then that means they will slowly go extinct in the low gen version. Just like Hollies almost did.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Naruhina_94]

Is there going to be a separate thread for suggesting a special in-cave variant of a prize dragon (a black shimmerscale was most commonly brought up in the earlier thread)? Because I think releasing CB prizes into the cave is unfair to the prize winners, but I'm all over the black recolor. (Mostly just because I'd kill for a black and silver eastern dragon, LOL, but I also think it would make the raffles less stressful to newbies!)

 

I think we could have both Relase a coal version in the cave before relase them as metallics.

Why?

Because relase only the black version wouldn't solve the problem since we are looking for sprites that have to be identical to the original ones, otherwise nothing changes.

[Sheriziya]

While this would somewhat fix the "low gen prizes are ultra-rare and extremely hard to obtain" problem that average players experience, there is one major flaw that I find to be crippling:

 

The Prize dragons will eventually get less unique than some specific HM choices.

 

Let's say A won a shiny all-new gold prize dragon, while B won a HM and decided to get a CB Alt Black. While A will enjoy having an ultra-rare CB dragon that few have for a few years, it will ultimately be released to the general public and rendered normal. At the mean time, B's CB Alt Black remains accessible only through raffles while A's gold prize rapidly loses uniqueness (and by extension, value of offsprings).

 

It's like the first prize being an annual $100,000,000 for three years and the supposedly-lesser prize being an annual $50,000,000 for life. It makes no sense.

Hmmm... It seems we're getting back to the old discussion:

Is it a raffle or a lottery?

 

If we regard the raffle as a lottery, then yes, you've got a point with the comparison with the money prize. If we regard the raffle as a raffle.... Let me give an example I've given earlier:

Getting back to the concept of a raffle, usually you'll get an item for free in a raffle which you'd otherwise had to pay for in a shop and which, in the shop, would be available for everyone to buy. Think about raffles for a new book from a famous writer prior to selling the book in the store. Everyone's got an equal chance (going on the assumption everyone only gets one ticket, like here on DC). If you participate in the raffle, you might win the book. And everyone remembers you won that book!

 

So.... Are we talking about a raffle or a lottery? If we're talking about a true raffle, I think our suggestion could very well be very valid If we're talking about a lottery instead, then you might have a point.... Still..... I agree with Naruhina's point:

A Shimmer or a Tinsel are not Prize dragons. They are Metallic dragons and the Prize consist in having had them before than anyone else.

Those who won a CB Shimmer or Tinsel have had a big Prize because they were able to dispose of an entire new breed that depends all by their choiches.

 

They have not earned "only" a new metal dragon in advance of all other users. They have earned even all the dragons who have been paid for their offsprings! Which means that if I have got a CB Shimmer that can produce forever 2nd gen Gold Shimmers I can even trade forever its offsprings for one ore more dragons from other users.

I'm not saying that it's wrong. This is a Prize after all and the owners have all the right to do that! 

But not forever, because this becomes unfair, since they didn't do nothing more than other players to have this due.

They would still have a CB shimmer that would be recognized, they would still have had a big Prize.

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Sheriziya

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I have to say I'm in support of this.

 

DC is a collecting game, so adding a dragon that only a very tiny group could ever get CBs of always felt odd to me. Sure, there's things like CB Holidays, but those are still released in much larger amounts and give everyone a pretty decent shot at getting one. I also don't think 2nd gen Holidays have ever rocked the trade market as much as 2nd gen Prizes, not even when it comes to the elusive Hollies. After all, with those there's always a shot at getting them for free from the AP, and you only need stress about trying to grab one once per year, so it's not a huge deal.

 

I can understand why some would be opposed to it on the grounds of "but they were Prizes, they were meant to be exclusive." At the same time, though, I think it balances out. Many changes in the game have happened unexpectedly - the removal of old limits on Christmas dragons, the addition of teleport, an increase in egg limits, the removal of general multiclutching, the ability to remove Zombie dragons, so on and so forth. Change happens. Also, in TJ's raffle post (for this year, at least), I don't see a promise that they would remain forever and ever exclusive.

 

As some others have said, think of it as an exclusive pre-release. While everyone else has to wait years for a shot at these special dragons (at least in CB form), these winners get to utilize them exclusively for an entire four years. Four years of having their pick of any trade in the cave they might desire, four years of exclusive control of a breed! That's one heck of a prize in itself, to say nothing of the fact that they also got to enjoy celebrity status along the way and pick custom codes, neither of which in-cave Prizes will merit.

 

I also imagine they would stay pretty darn valuable even when they became available in cave. I mean, look at Dorkfaces and Thuweds. Their only difference from every other dragon of their type is their name and bred date, respectively, yet people still are over the moon to get at them. I imagine the same would be true of original Prizes (just look at all the traders striving to collect one from each Prize, or even one of each line from each Prize!), especially if their names were given some special mark or their sprites given some special touch (such as keeping the tinsel on the Tinsels or gaining a pearl for the Shimmers while in-cave ones would lack such things).

 

I also don't think HM babies will ever be rarer than they are. HMs are awesome and all, but at the end of the day they function mostly like Spriter's Alt lines. They're pretty and neat, but the dragons you get can be obtained in other ways (which currently isn't true of Shimmers / Tinsels), so there isn't such a huge drive to get their immediate offspring. Still, if it's such a huge deal, I'd be down for letting Prize winners get an HM to boot once their Prizes were released in-cave, if they feel it's such a letdown. This option probably wouldn't exist for later winners, though, as they'll know what they're getting into from the start.

 

On a concluding note, if such a release does happen, I agree there needs to be a way to distinguish types at a glance in the cave, preferably both by biome coding for color and changing the egg text of Tinsels. If you really want to go a step further with maintaining the uniqueness of the original Prizes, perhaps eggs descended from the original winners could maintain their regular text, while the release text for in-cave eggs is slightly different.

Edited February 6, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[CNR4806]

Hmmm... It seems we're getting back to the old discussion:

Is it a raffle or a lottery?

 

If we regard the raffle as a lottery, then yes, you've got a point with the comparison with the money prize. If we regard the raffle as a raffle.... Let me give an example I've given earlier:

 

 

So.... Are we talking about a raffle or a lottery? If we're talking about a true raffle, I think the suggestion could very well be very valid If we're talking about a lottery instead, then you might have a point....

Word play is not the concern here, lotto or raffle, it gets ridiculous when you realize that the 4th prize is better than the 1st to 3rd prizes combined.

[Naruhina_94]

Word play is not the concern here, lotto or raffle, it gets ridiculous when you realize that the 4th prize is better than the 1st to 3rd prizes combined.

I've seen an users say with decision that these are RAFFLES and that there is an huge difference between them and a lottery.He was angry because some other users called it "lottery" instead of "raffle"...

 

On a concluding note, if such a release does happen, I agree there needs to be a way to distinguish types at a glance in the cave, preferably both by biome coding for color and changing the egg text of Tinsels. If you really want to go a step further with maintaining the uniqueness of the original Prizes, perhaps eggs descended from the original winners could maintain their regular text, while the release text for in-cave eggs is slightly different.

 

I agree, original prizes should mantein their original description ^^

 

CB Gold: "This egg is very reflective, almost metallic-looking."

CB Gold Shimmer: "This egg is very reflective, like a shiny piece of gold."

CB Silver Shimmer: "This egg is very reflective, like a shiny piece of silver."

Cb Bronze Shimmer: "This egg is very reflective, like a shiny piece of bronze."

CB Tinsel Gold: "This egg is very reflective, like a precious mineral."

CB Tinsel Silver: "This egg is very reflective, like a precious piece of silver."

C Tinsel Bronze: "This egg is very reflective, like a brilliant piece of bronze."

Edited February 6, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Sheriziya]

Word play is not the concern here, lotto or raffle, it gets ridiculous when you realize that the 4th prize is better than the 1st to 3rd prizes combined.

Er... I think you lost me there...... I guess you mean the HM would be the 4th prize, in comparison?

 

Hm..... I've never won anything in the raffle, so I can't base my opinion on winnings, but I don't think an HM would be worth more than a prize dragon which would be available in the cave after four years. I've been thinking about what I'd do, would I have won a 1/2/3 prize. I still don't know. The prizes are great, but the possibilities for the HM would also be fun. Although I think there would only be one thing I'd really want as an HM, because I'm currently working on a lineage, and that's a CB Soulpeace.

On the other hand, CB hybrids..... don't always make sense in lineages. In the lineage I'm working on, it would work, but that's because it's partly colored based. Otherwise, I would have definitely chosen the prize dragon, even if it would have been released in the cave four years later. My lineage project is the only reason I was ever in doubt.

 

And after all, people can even choose an HM instead of a prize dragon. So..... why would a prize dragon suddenly be less worthy if it becomes available in the cave after four years/raffles?

 

And it's not wordplay as far as I'm concerned. I'm truly wondering how we view this raffle/lottery? I think the point of view for this event is one of the main reasons prize dragons are regarded as such high valued prizes for whose offspring we'd have to pay an arm and a legg (and more) if we don't have a prize dragon ourselves.

I've been very lucky and I've been gifted several prize dragons, which I'm going to breed and gift as soon as I have the perfect mate for them. So I consider myself lucky in that regard

[HeatherMarie]

I have an opinion, not presuming to speak for anyone else.

A Shimmer or a Tinsel are not Prize dragons. They are Metallic dragons and the Prize consist in having had them before than anyone else.

Those who won a CB Shimmer or Tinsel have had a big Prize because they were able to dispose of an entire new breed that depends all by their choiches.

 

They have not earned "only" a new metal dragon in advance of all other users. They have earned even all the dragons who have been paid for their offsprings! Which means that if I have got a CB Shimmer that can produce forever 2nd gen Gold Shimmers I can even trade forever its offsprings for one ore more dragons from other users.

I'm not saying that it's wrong. This is a Prize after all and the owners have all the right to do that!

But not forever, because this becomes unfair, since they didn't do nothing more than other players to have this due.

They would still have a CB shimmer that would be recognized, they would still have had a big Prize.

 

If some of them say: "Knowing that I would have choose another prize, like an Holly!"

I would say: "Knowing that Holiday limits would be removed I wouldn't freeze one of my CB Holidays..."

ANYWAY I would still understand them, and I would let them to choose ANOTHER prize, because they didn't know.

The "Prize" part is *not* having had them before anyone else. TJ isn't handing out "dragons no one else has had yet", he's handing out *CB SHIMMERS* or *CB TINSELS*.

 

The "prize", going strictly off of *what* TJ awards people, is a CB Tinsel or Shimmer. You can't include possible trading material in the "prize", because that may or may not happen at all. And it can't even be called a "new metal dragon in advance of all other users", because *plenty* of people (who didn't win) now have Tinsels and Shimmers. I do. I never won.

 

I'm against this suggestion for that reason. I, myself, don't give a crap about CB/lineage/etc, but I know SO many other people do. And I don't see how it's fair to these winners to give them prizes (CB Shimmer/Tinsel) that are NOT actually special in any way. Past winners will find that they are no longer among a small group of lucky users that have CB Shimmer/Tinsels, they are suddenly just one person with a CB-dragon that *everyone* can now obtain.

 

As much as I hate to admit it, this is one area where I believe exclusivity should *stay*. Prizes are *supposed* to be *prizes*. Prizes are worth a lot less if EVERYONE can get the exact same thing.

[DarkEternity]

Owning a CB Holly is probably comparable to owning a CB prize dragon that:

- Can only breed once a year

- Won't cause people to PM you

 

Even poorly breeding prize dragons, on the other hand, I'd expect to breed about 7 2g prize dragons per year.

 

Owning any other CB HM is going to be like owning a Spriter Alt which is significantly less valuable and you're really not going to get CB metals for the offspring (save for maybe the holidays). The thing itself is extremely rare and valuable, but when you come down to it it's going to be like owning a frill.

 

Though it kinda isn't fair if you release CB prizes into the caves and not HMs. Though then you could argue that it isn't fair that a CB Holly can't breed 7 times per year. And then you could argue a whole heap of stuff.

 

In my humble opinion, if it was me I'd just release everything. HMs. Prizes. I wouldn't care if you released all of them together, so it's not 'unfair' but a fact of life. The real reward is the code. The code is forever. Codes are unique. Prize dragons are not. Prize dragons are released every year.

 

Look at it this way.

 

I've been playing DC for four years. That's like 20% of my life. People don't live for very long. I think people sometimes forget that. And if, say, three years is too short?

 

What about 15 years?

30 years?

45 years?

60 years?

 

Sooner or later, we're all going to be dead anyway. Prize dragons don't confer you immortality and you're not supposed to give people your scroll.

Even books have a time when it passes into the public domain.

 

*reads it over again*

That sounded morbid .////.

Edited February 7, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Obscure_Trash]

I agree. It doesn't seem to me that this is the right answer to the problem. A Prize dragon that is available in the cave is no longer a Prize dragon. If you win a Prize and then a few years later everyone can have a CB Prize, then yours is no longer special -- unless they are uber-rare in the cave, and then it would not really address the complaints anyway.

This is exactly what I was coming to say. I did support this back when it was originally suggested (dropping a dull variant) but it was out of frustration that the raffle event caused so much negativity. I do not think this suggestion will really help that, though. Prizes should be special. :3

[DarkEternity]

This is exactly what I was coming to say. I did support this back when it was originally suggested (dropping a dull variant) but it was out of frustration that the raffle event caused so much negativity. I do not think this suggestion will really help that, though. Prizes should be special. :3

That too. Unfortunately, this is just one of those things where either non-winners benefit or everything stays the same or winners lose or everything stays the same. There is no neutral position.

A dull variant of the prize would likely not address the underlying tension between winners and non-winners.

 

It is only natural that winners would not want this suggestion to occur and non-winners would want this suggestion to occur.

 

EDIT;

Though eventually we'll all be dead and won't be able to care anyway.

Edited February 7, 2014 by DarkEternity

[wobster109]

This is exactly what I was coming to say. I did support this back when it was originally suggested (dropping a dull variant) but it was out of frustration that the raffle event caused so much negativity. I do not think this suggestion will really help that, though. Prizes should be special. :3

I disagree, and I agree with the OP. The problem is that prizes are special, making some completely random players special. Even though every active player has the same chance, the end result is very unfair. It creates a class of DC-elites.

 

A parent does not pick one child to give a gift.

A teacher does not pick one student to give a cookie.

A manager does not pick one employee to give a bonus.

Not even if it's random.

 

Every DC player should be treated the same. I feel we all should have the same access to the same dragons, no more and no less. At least in a fantasy world, we can have the fantasy of equality as close to perfect as we can make it.

[DarkEternity]

Before there was prizes, the elite were the breeders and the catchers.

My fear is that substituting one thing for another we are not changing the status quo.

[wobster109]

Before there was prizes, the elite were the breeders and the catchers.

My fear is that substituting one thing for another we are not changing the status quo.

When the elite is breeders and catchers, everyone has the chance to become elite. It will take a lot of time and effort. But not everyone has the chance to have a CB tinsel, no matter how hard they try.

 

Re: winners and non-winners - I'm the owner of Darkrose, one of the first bronze tinsels. I've become a "winner" by chance. And if bronze tinsels become available to everyone, I'll still be a winner. No one's taken my dragons away. Having a beautiful dragon makes me a winner, and everyone else can be winners too.

[Obscure_Trash]

I disagree, and I agree with the OP. The problem is that prizes are special, making some completely random players special. Even though every active player has the same chance, the end result is very unfair. It creates a class of DC-elites.

 

A parent does not pick one child to give a gift.

A teacher does not pick one student to give a cookie.

A manager does not pick one employee to give a bonus.

Not even if it's random.

 

Every DC player should be treated the same. I feel we all should have the same access to the same dragons, no more and no less. At least in a fantasy world, we can have the fantasy of equality as close to perfect as we can make it.

This isn't a parent or other close authority figure giving their favorite something. It's a raffle done by, well, let's call us an organization.

 

Yes, breeding sucks right now (I remember when tinsels hit the AP and became easy to catch, something that seemingly never occurred with shimmers and no longer occurs with tinsels), but caveborn variants are not going to fix this problem with ratios. I suppose if cb and breeding ratios are divorced (which I think they are?) they'll drop well, but with everyone grabbing one... we're still going to have the same problems breeding but likely multiplied.

 

I think when you use special you perhaps mean rare or unattainable, which is not what I mean prizes in general should be. Here's what I mean:

belonging specifically to a particular person or place.

designed or organized for a particular person, purpose, or occasion.

And I believe releasing prizes in cave will make the prizes themselves not special.

 

Do I think there are problems overall with the trade market and what hits the AP? Yeah, but I really think this is user-based and I have no idea how to really go about fixing or improving that.