ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

[Naruhina_94]

Spriter alts are different colors though, so they're not comparable to this suggestion. They'd fit best with the "release a coal version" instead. Yeah that spriter alt isn't too different from the original, but the other ones are. They wouldn't become an "alt" unless they were a different color to be honest.

Yes, you're right, in fact I've said that they would be a "sort" of ALTs, not really as ALTs.

And this is why I support the little improvement visible even from the lineage that doesn't change the dragon itself, but the name or the frame (with something a lot more beautiful that those horrible exmples that I've made ).

[KageSora]

You have a good point, but I would agree more with you if this wouldn't be a collectionable game. Even if Prizes would be bad looking or with very little differences from those that you can pick up from the cave in any moment there would still be many users who collect them, because they would be still different.

Look at Thuwed or Dorkface dragons. Many of them are very common dragons, aren't them? A little name can change everything.

A different way to obtain a Prize dragon wouldn't reduce the value of an original prize, because they would still be different from those that have been relased.

 

Finally I think that an even where you win a raffle ticket is made first of all to have fun. I loved the snow fort war and the gingerbread house, too! Winning is an extra (much desired) result.

You said that if the prizes are uninteresting at best, they normally won't bother entering unless the requirements to enter are met by something else they were already doing, but I don't see a funny event as something that annoys.

When someone participates in the Christams raffle the prizes are not specified: we didn't know if we would have got tinsel or shimmer or something else until January and even into the previously events it was not written anywere that the dragon that you could win wouldn't be never relased.

And, as it is a collecting game, there would still be many users who want to collect them ALL--including the original appearance ones, and who will be mad about how hard it is to get "proper" 2nd-gens that share the appearance of the prize ones, or how hard it is to win the prize themselves.

 

Because, to me, even the minor differences make them a different sprite. And, as much as possible, I want to have one of every sprite. So I'd want one from the cave, but it wouldn't be the same as a prize-sprite 2nd gen, even if the one from the cave were CB.

 

 

...And that's kinda what I was saying, though. If the prizes held no value and the event was annoying, people wouldn't bother to enter. As it is, if the prizes hold no interest people still end up entering simply because they enjoy the event and don't actually have to do anything extra to enter. But if they didn't have an interest in the prizes and didn't like the event, they would be much less likely to take the time to enter.

 

Additionally, the general assumption is that we'd get special prize dragons. I mean, even according to the first announcement[/i] of the contest, it was clear that the prizes would be brand new dragons.

 

The second time the prizes happened, a year later, it was announced that they would be raffled off, and the picture of the tinsel made the implication quite clear that the prizes would be the same.

 

The third event made it clear it was another raffle, and that it would be a brand-new prize dragon.

 

This past year is actually the anomaly in that we didn't know if we would be getting a new dragon or a dragon released from the past until the winners had already been drawn.

 

Now that the raffle has run for several years, there is the very clear implication that these dragons are unique and special and you cannot have a CB of one any other way as a result of them never having been released before. There is no precedent for it, so setting a new precedent by releasing them to the cave WILL cause drama among those who feel that their special rare prize has been devalued now that just anybody can have a chance at catching for it--and, of course, trading value for the 2nd gens MIGHT go down (depends on how many people care specifically about having each sprite and will be willing to trade for them so they can have one with the unaltered sprite of those from winner-lines). This is GOING to anger people.

 

And it absolutely WILL cause issues if there was no alteration and the in-cave sprites were identical. Because then why bother trading for a 2nd gen when you can trade for a CB?

 

I don't agree with lineages having such insane control over the trading market, or having become such a large part of the game, but the fact is that they DO have a lot of weight in determining the value of a dragon to a lot of players (at least here on the forums). So, why bother with a 2nd gen when you can start your very own lineage from scratch?

 

 

My biggest issue with the idea of going from "exclusive dragons" to "early access" is simply because I feel like it's a bit late to set that precedent. I feel like something like this should have been done much sooner rather than leaving us with several years to become accustomed to the prizes working a certain way.

[Naruhina_94]

And, as it is a collecting game, there would still be many users who want to collect them ALL--including the original appearance ones, and who will be mad about how hard it is to get "proper" 2nd-gens that share the appearance of the prize ones, or how hard it is to win the prize themselves.

 

Because, to me, even the minor differences make them a different sprite.  And, as much as possible, I want to have one of every sprite.  So I'd want one from the cave, but it wouldn't be the same as a prize-sprite 2nd gen, even if the one from the cave were CB.

 

 

...And that's kinda what I was saying, though.  If the prizes held no value and the event was annoying, people wouldn't bother to enter.  As it is, if the prizes hold no interest people still end up entering simply because they enjoy the event and don't actually have to do anything extra to enter.  But if they didn't have an interest in the prizes and didn't like the event, they would be much less likely to take the time to enter.

 

Additionally, the general assumption is that we'd get special prize dragons.  I mean, even according to the first announcement[/i] of the contest, it was clear that the prizes would be brand new dragons.

 

The second time the prizes happened, a year later, it was announced that they would be raffled off, and the picture of the tinsel made the implication quite clear that the prizes would be the same.

 

The third event made it clear it was another raffle, and that it would be a brand-new prize dragon.

 

This past year is actually the anomaly in that we didn't know if we would be getting a new dragon or a dragon released from the past until the winners had already been drawn.

 

Now that the raffle has run for several years, there is the very clear implication that these dragons are unique and special and you cannot have a CB of one any other way as a result of them never having been released before.  There is no precedent for it, so setting a new precedent by releasing them to the cave WILL cause drama among those who feel that their special rare prize has been devalued now that just anybody can have a chance at catching for it--and, of course, trading value for the 2nd gens MIGHT go down (depends on how many people care specifically about having each sprite and will be willing to trade for them so they can have one with the unaltered sprite of those from winner-lines).  This is GOING to anger people.

 

And it absolutely WILL cause issues if there was no alteration and the in-cave sprites were identical.  Because then why bother trading for a 2nd gen when you can trade for a CB?

 

I don't agree with lineages having such insane control over the trading market, or having become such a large part of the game, but the fact is that they DO have a lot of weight in determining the value of a dragon to a lot of players (at least here on the forums).  So, why bother with a 2nd gen when you can start your very own lineage from scratch?

 

 

My biggest issue with the idea of going from "exclusive dragons" to "early access" is simply because I feel like it's a bit late to set that precedent.  I feel like something like this should have been done much sooner rather than leaving us with several years to become accustomed to the prizes working a certain way.

I don't think that there would be so many complaining if original prizes dragons change just a little bit as I've said.

There are ALT spriters too than cannot be collected and only God knows how much would I love to have a CB black sweetling (When I saw the Wiki list for the first time I looked at it and said "I want this. absolutly". However I cannot have it neither 2nd gen.)

I don't see so many topic were people is asking to have a pink tinsel!

 

This problem would emerge if a CB coal version would be relased. It would be a super cool dragon nobody say not, but it would be too different, too.

 

My biggest issue with the idea of going from "exclusive dragons" to "early access" is simply because I feel like it's a bit late to set that precedent. I feel like something like this should have been done much sooner rather than leaving us with several years to become accustomed to the prizes working a certain way.

 

This is why I would like to give another chance to the winners and select a second Prize (even a HM).

You're right, they didn't know that this could happen, but nobody said to them that their exclusive dragon could be limited for them forever. I'm sorry if it sounds rude, but... why did they have taken it for granted?

We are not saying that their prizes should be taken away tomorrow. But in 2 years and that's is a loooong time.

Knowing that they would still have many time to earn a lot trading their offsprings to those who don't want to wait.

 

I read that each CB holiday dragon is the "essence" of the year of its relase. So why a Prize Dragon won in 2013 should be able to be a printing money machine forever? They are not related to their relase year? We still distinguish about CB tinsels 2010 and CB tinsels 2011.

 

It was taken for granted even that there would be only 2 dragons per breed for each Holiday forever, but... now we can have more than 2, and just 2 CB... What I should said about my CB Rosebunds and Ribbons? I relased one of the dragons per breed that I have, my precious unique and no longer obtainable CB dragons, to have a 2nd gen to build lineage.

Many people frozen the 2nd CB as hatchie to have both spriters.

Now all this sacrifice it is useless and I lost a great value dragon. (Important: CB Rosebund cannot be chosen neither as HM!)

 

I'm not complaining that even if having a CB holiday seems really similar to have a prize since you cannot have an old CB right now. I'm more happy to take a lot of them, and the lost of my exclusive dragon can be neglected if we look at the long term.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[KageSora]

I don't think that there would be so many complaining if original prizes dragons change just a little bit as I've said.

There are ALT spriters too than cannot be collected and only God knows how much would I love to have a CB black sweetling (When I saw the Wiki list for the first time I looked at it and said "I want this. absolutly". However I cannot have it neither 2nd gen.)

I don't see so many topic were people is asking to have a pink tinsel!

 

This problem would emerge if a CB coal version would be relased. It would be a super cool dragon nobody say not, but it would be too different, too.

 

 

 

This is why I would like to give another chance to the winners and select a second Prize (even a HM).

You're right, they didn't know that this could happen, but nobody said to them that their exclusive dragon could be limited for them forever. I'm sorry if it sounds rude, but... why did they have taken it for granted?

We are not saying that their prizes should be taken away tomorrow. But in 2 years and that's is a loooong time.

Knowing that they would still have many time to earn a lot trading their offsprings to those who don't want to wait.

 

I read that each CB holiday dragon is the "essence" of the year of its relase. So why a Prize Dragon won in 2013 should be able to be a printing money machine forever? They are not related to their relase year? We still distinguish about CB tinsels 2010 and CB tinsels 2011.

 

It was taken for granted even that there would be only 2 dragons per breed for each Holiday forever, but... now we can have more than 2, and just 2 CB... What I should said about my CB Rosebunds and Ribbons? I relased one of the dragons per breed that I have, my precious unique and no longer obtainable CB dragons, to have a 2nd gen to build lineage.

Many people frozen the 2nd CB as hatchie to have both spriters.

Now all this sacrifice it is useless and I lost a great value dragon. (Important: CB Rosebund cannot be chosen neither as HM!)

 

I'm not complaining that even if having a CB holiday seems really similar to have a prize since you cannot have an old CB right now. I'm more happy to take a lot of them, and the lost of my exclusive dragon can be neglected if we look at the long term.

Alts are different.

 

There is a possibility to obtain a prize dragon, CB or 2nd gen. There is no chance to obtain an alt that your scroll is not coded for. So the two aren't really comparable.

 

Honestly, I while I do prefer the coal dragon suggestion I honestly don't think it'll actually solve the problem, either, because it's not the same as the prize dragons therefore doesn't hold the same value (not should it--the value is part of what makes having a prize dragon so special)

 

 

...And, honestly, the prize dragons are not the same as the holiday dragons. They're not the "essence" of the year they were released, they're the prizes.

 

I personally HATE when people decide to just up and change the way things work after several years. I hate it, and see it as incredibly unfair to give people the impression that something is one way then just completely change it around, unless people it's for the better.

 

But I really don't think that releasing them in the cave will be for the better--you're GOING to have very angry people who are pissed as hell that you screwed over the value of their prizes. You're basically just inviting people to be rightfully angry that you took away a decent chunk of the specialness of their prize. I'd argue that they'd have a right to feel cheated.

 

 

Actually, if you're upset over the freezing of your CB, then there's a suggestion to make unfreezing possible. That would help alter the unhappiness caused to certain people by lifting the limits.

 

However, I have yet to see a means to make things better for the people who would suddenly have a decent bit of the value of their dragon vanish. You're just screwing them over, and they won fair and square. What's the point of a prize if it's just going to go down in value?

[Irys]

"Winners of the raffle will receive an all-new never-before-released prize dragon."

 

It is my opinion that the exclusivity is implied in this sentence because DragonCave is a closed environment. A raffle in the real world is not a closed environment. Almost any prize offered can be acquired elsewhere. In DragonCave, however, we have the Cave and the Raffle. That’s it.

 

Imagine, for instance, you live in a closed environment. A permanently closed dome. Your resources are finite. Everyone has access to resources in the commissary. But then there is a special raffle and the prize of that raffle is an item that is only available in that raffle. It is not available at the commissary.

 

That prize, is then by implication exclusive because you can’t get it anywhere but at the raffle. The announcement of the raffle’s prizes doesn't needa caveat to remind people that the prize is exclusive.

 

On the contrary, if the prize was not exclusive, then there would be a caveat to tell the populace generally when to expect availability of the item in the commissary. It would have been announced from the beginning as being "early access" to the item in question.

 

DragonCave is a closed environment.

The Cave is the commissary.

Every non-exclusive dragon in the game (except Prizes) are ultimately tied back to production in the cave.

Prizes and their offspring, on the other hand, have their point of origin ultimately tied to the raffle.

HM's are pulled from dragons released in the cave.

 

All of these things tell me that the prizes are inherently exclusive and were never intended to be later released in the cave.

 

A real-world example of this in action can be seen in exclusive content available in certain Massive Multiplayer Online Games. These games are closed environments. In some games, people have won a space in the beta testing groups by sheer chance. These people, at game launch, are often given exclusive items that will never be available to the rest of the people who were not lucky enough to win the "raffle" that got them into the beta testing pool. Like the CB prizes, these "prizes" are considered inherently exclusive. I can't think of any situation where that exclusive item was only "exclusive" for a limited amount of time and was retroactively made "unexclusive" and available to the rest of the subscribers.

 

Temporary exclusivity is always announced beforehand as an "early release" or "early access" or something. These terms have never been associated with the DragonCave raffle prize dragons.

 

If I am wrong, and the “prize” was for the limited exclusivity of a cave born prize, then it was completely disingenuous to not make that clear to the prize winners from the beginning.

[DarkEternity]

If I am wrong, and the “prize” was for the limited exclusivity of a cave born prize, then it was completely disingenuous to not make that clear to the prize winners from the beginning.

Disingenuous? The raffle is like a free gift. You didn't pay money to enter the raffle and you have already received the gift. It's like going back to the giftee and demanding a lifetime insurance on a gift you received.

 

Where does it say that it's a limited and exclusive dragon? We have limited and exclusive dragons - we call them holiday dragons. MMOs are often not free games, you pay subscription fees to continue to get content. In a way, the game owes you to keep certain things exclusive because you paid money for it. You did not pay money to enter into one of DC's raffles. Furthermore, MMOs often have one-time use items or items that don't suddenly multiply themselves allowing the user to obtain more such items.

 

When you are beta-testing, you are contributing your time and resources into identifying bugs to prevent the exploitation of hacks within the game. When you are entering DC's raffles, you spend five minutes throwing snow at people. This is comparable on what level?

 

"Winners of the raffle will receive an all-new never-before-released prize dragon."

Does not imply it will never be released. All-new: ok, so the dragon is new. Never-before-released: well it has been released now and has been released again in subsequent raffles. This statement does not suggest that it is ever going to be released again or that it will not ever be released again.

 

It is fair to say that the spriters do not support this suggestion - hence the reason why it will NEVER LIKELY HAPPEN - but this is just a little bit disturbing that we happily accept a gift... and then ask for strings attached to it. Honestly, if it is disingenuous, why not ask whether TJ was going to release the dragon beforehand, while you are deciding whether or not to obtain the egg? Afterwards, it's just... ehh. Maybe a bad aftertaste?

 

In my humble opinion, the raffle is not deceiving you into claiming free dragons which are later then rereleased. If it is rereleased, then perhaps TJ has his reasons. And if it is not rereleased, then perhaps TJ also has his reasons. On any level, in any of these cases, I see no evidence of trickery, underhandedness or dishonesty - all connotations that the word disingenuous offers. There are, also in my humble opinion, better ways of making this displeasure about the release of prize dragons into the cave known.

Edited February 13, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Naruhina_94]

but this is just a little bit disturbing that we happily accept a gift... and then ask for strings attached to it. Honestly, if it is disingenuous, why not ask whether TJ was going to release the dragon beforehand, while you are deciding whether or not to obtain the egg? Afterwards, it's just... ehh. Maybe a bad aftertaste?

 

I really agreee with this. It could sounds bad, but it's connected to the fact the the winners hadn't done so much more than anyone else, too... I understand that they have gained a dragon never relased before... but why they can add much more value than that and make it exclusive?

It isn't fair for the Winners that their dragons are exaclty like those that you could find in Cave, but it's also unfair for all other users that they have to depend by them to have a certain dragon. The right compromise will always make some people angry, but the most important thing is that the majiority is happy, I think that is how it works when there is an huge amount of people...

 

Nobody can say that having a CB tinsel in 2010 wasn't a supercool situation: even if the winner didn't breed it, he still had an unique prize that everyone admire in his scroll. If the winner breed it he can earn new rare dragons with a simple trade, so his prize would increase. How much could amount his prize after 4 years?

( I'm not saying that there aren't even those who kindly gift their offspring, but even in this case they are sadly too few to substain the market. And they don't have to, so why keep all this burden on them? )

All other users can just sit and watching how many things they cannot do and see how the "never seen before dragon" has been easly changed by others in "that you could even never see in your scroll". This increase the frustration of those don't win and we get a point where there are person (like me) who even if they win they would still prefer to see their prize relased in cave after some years, because they understand that the power of a minigame should never be holded by a small group of people forever.

 

SO what we could do?

Make the original prizes more distinguishable from a possibile relased dragon that have the same aspect and make both sides happy.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Sheriziya]

"Winners of the raffle will receive an all-new never-before-released prize dragon."

Does not imply it will never be released. All-new: ok, so the dragon is new. Never-before-released: well it has been released now and has been released again in subsequent raffles. This statement does not suggest that it is ever going to be released again or that it will not ever be released again.

^^This I totally agree with.

 

Honestly, if it is disingenuous, why not ask whether TJ was going to release the dragon beforehand, while you are deciding whether or not to obtain the egg? Afterwards, it's just... ehh. Maybe a bad aftertaste?

I'm seriously considering sending TJ a PM to ask him to respond to this, although I equally seriously think he will not respond in-thread to this particular part of the issue...

 

It is fair to say that the spriters do not support this suggestion - hence the reason why it will NEVER LIKELY HAPPEN

There's something to keep in mind, though: Both Marrionetta and Mysfytt have stated their concern about the status of the dragon and the impact it may have on winners as (one of the) main reasons to say "no". If we could solve those particular problems, perhaps both Mysfytt and Marrionetta might welcome a release in-cave. That is..... if we can find a way to do that.

 

In my humble opinion, the raffle is not deceiving you into claiming free dragons which are later then rereleased. If it is rereleased, then perhaps TJ has his reasons. And if it is not rereleased, then perhaps TJ also has his reasons. On any level, in any of these cases, I see no evidence of trickery, underhandedness or dishonesty - all connotations that the word disingenuous offers. There are, also in my humble opinion, better ways of making this displeasure about the release of prize dragons into the cave known.

I agree.

 

SO what we could do?

Make the original prizes more distinguishable from a possibile relased dragon that have the same aspect and make both sides happy.

For some reason, unfortunately, this is EXACTLY the thing a certain part of the userbase has such problems with. After alol, we've already made several suggestions with this in mind and they were all shot down, both here and in the other thread. I totally agree with you this could be an ideal solution, though, IF everyone could agree on that......

 

And just because I still don't understand this:

What's the difference when you compare the following two situations:

Situation 1:

Golden Moment (direct descendant from The Original Midas Dorkface and The Original Shallynaar) (famous anscestors and dito lineage)

vs

Elamef Dlog Edisi (gold dragon without the above lineage)

Situation 2:

Quantuma Centurion (direct descendant from Quantum Color from the 2012 raffle)

vs

Imaginary Shimmer scale from the cave with a similar lineage like Elamef Dlog Edisi with ancestor Shimmers from the cave instead of a normal gold.

 

Why would all of a sudden a descendant from Quantum Color be worth so less then before when the Shimmers would be released in-cave? I understand the Dorkface lineage is famous, but so are all the lineages from the original prizes, I dare to say. So, if they both are equally famous, what's the difference?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Sheriziya

[Odeen]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

 

I've been around for a little bit. In that time, one of the few things that has not changed is the identity of the players who most often catch CB metals. I know their scroll names, I know some of them directly, they even know (and compete with) each other. It honestly doesn't bother me that they can take advantage of the time and clicking skills they have in order to get the metals they catch.

 

If you release prize dragons in cave as rares, the vast majority of CB prize dragons that drop will end up on one of those scrolls rather than evenly distributed. Even if CB prizes are as common as CB golds, there will be people who still have absolutely no chance of ever catching one themselves, and very little chance of receiving a CB prize unless a better catcher is kind. It will not solve the issue most people have with low gen accessibility probably for years, unless the prizes are released in a flood first.

[Naruhina_94]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

 

I've been around for a little bit. In that time, one of the few things that has not changed is the identity of the players who most often catch CB metals. I know their scroll names, I know some of them directly, they even know (and compete with) each other. It honestly doesn't bother me that they can take advantage of the time and clicking skills they have in order to get the metals they catch.

 

If you release prize dragons in cave as rares, the vast majority of CB prize dragons that drop will end up on one of those scrolls rather than evenly distributed. Even if CB prizes are as common as CB golds, there will be people who still have absolutely no chance of ever catching one themselves, and very little chance of receiving a CB prize unless a better catcher is kind. It will not solve the issue most people have with low gen accessibility probably for years, unless the prizes are released in a flood first.

During their first relasing day I assume thet they would be enought easy to get, and after that... they would become rare as golds, yes, with a not so high percentage of catching one.

It would be difficult to find a Cb prize in cave (thing that will help to not devalue the Original prizes so much and their 2nd gen will still be a lot required) but the most important thing is that those who can catch them will also breed them. There will be more 2nd gens, very more easy to trade, even with a specific mate.

There are also many topics were rares are gited.

The main problem is that those who can catch cb Golds and silvers have only this two breeds to trade as "rare things". With more metallics in cave they would become more easy to trade, since there will be more currency trading.

Those who can find a CB gold will initially ask for a CB shimmer/tinsel, of course, but after that why they should ask for something that they can take by their own?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[purplehaze]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

 

I've been around for a little bit. In that time, one of the few things that has not changed is the identity of the players who most often catch CB metals. I know their scroll names, I know some of them directly, they even know (and compete with) each other. It honestly doesn't bother me that they can take advantage of the time and clicking skills they have in order to get the metals they catch.

 

If you release prize dragons in cave as rares, the vast majority of CB prize dragons that drop will end up on one of those scrolls rather than evenly distributed. Even if CB prizes are as common as CB golds, there will be people who still have absolutely no chance of ever catching one themselves, and very little chance of receiving a CB prize unless a better catcher is kind. It will not solve the issue most people have with low gen accessibility probably for years, unless the prizes are released in a flood first.

I agree 100%. It will just make the rich richer, not have the effect you want. Those with good connections and super catching skills will rule the market. Yes, they will be able to breed their new catches, but they will also be able to demand just about any price for them for quite a long time into the future if the Prizes are dropped as rares. Second gen Golds and Silvers aren't worth too much in the trade market now because there are so many CBs out there breeding. But that won't be the case with new rare dragons.

Edited February 13, 2014 by purplehaze

[Naruhina_94]

I agree 100%. It will just make the rich richer, not have the effect you want. Those with good connections and super catching skills will rule the market.

This will not change that with some time Prizes dragon could be holded by more person, more person that could breed them. How much would you ask for a 2nd gen gold right now? as much as a 2nd gen shimmer or tinsel? I don't think so

Also you can easly choose the partner of a 2nd gen gold! This will be so helpfull for those who are making lineages!

Any new rare dragon will be holded by those with a super conncection (or that can spend much time on this game) initially. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any new rare dragon, I suppose...

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[purplehaze]

This will not change that with some time Prizes dragon could be holded by more person, more person that could breed them. How much would you ask for a 2nd gen gold right now? as much as a 2nd gen shimmer or tinsel? I don't think so

Also you can easly choose the partner of a 2nd gen gold! This will be so helpfull for those who are making lineages!

Any new rare dragon will be holded by those with a super conncection (or that can spend much time on this game) initially. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any new rare dragon, I suppose...

I edited my post that you quoted to sort of answer that. Believe me, there was a time when 2nd gen Golds and Silvers commanded a very high price. It is fairly recent that there are enough CBs around that the market value for bred Golds has come down to the level where it is now. It will take years for that to happen with the Prize dragons.

 

I realize that any new rare dragon would have the same problem, but what I am saying is that for the Prize dragons, releasing them in the cave will not solve the trade value problem the way you think it will. At least not for a very long time.

[Naruhina_94]

I edited my post that you quoted to sort of answer that. Believe me, there was a time when 2nd gen Golds and Silvers commanded a very high price. It is fairly recent that there are enough CBs around that the market value for bred Golds has come down to the level where it is now. It will take years for that to happen with the Prize dragons.

 

I realize that any new rare dragon would have the same problem, but what I am saying is that for the Prize dragons, releasing them in the cave will not solve the trade value problem the way you think it will. At least not for a very long time.

Just one thing:

 

There are many more users right now than when CB golds and silver were relased

In 1-2 days of initial relase of Prize dragons in cave there would be a lot of people that can catch them. Their diffusion will slow after that initial period, but I still see a lot usefull a long term solution that no solution at all to take away the stress from trade market

 

Do you want that more people can have them as CB to really solve the situation? Let's make the initial relase last 4-5 days. I think it will be enought to distribute fairly the initials prize dragons. (Each of them will be able to do a 2nd gen every week)

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[purplehaze]

You want that more people can have them as CB to really solve the situation?

I didn't say that.

 

Releasing them in mass at the beginning is a slap in the face to the people who won them as prizes. And if it is not a mass release, then again they will all land in the hands of a few, who will be enriched at the expense of the prize-winners.

 

I just think releasing them as CBs in the cave is not a viable solution at all.

Edited February 13, 2014 by purplehaze

[Naruhina_94]

I didn't say that.

 

Releasing them in mass at the beginning is a slap in the face to the people who won them as prizes.

 

I just think releasing them as CBs in the cave is not a viable solution at all.

Is better a slap in face to all the non-winners?

As I said we could add something pretty to the original ones, so they will be really distinguishable even in lineage (and not just for their name and History).

Name color, frames... There could be some pretty and very visible solutions ^^

 

What about if the prizes relased in cave would have some types of breeding limits? Like they cannot breed with frilled and old pinks. This is a thing that only original prize dragons could do, so they would mantain a certain control over these lineage! (this would imply that each prizes owner would immediatly earn a Frilled egg if he has none)

Or

The relased prizes could be limited per scroll. 2 golds, 2 silvers, 2 bronze for each type.

You can take more Prizes eggs from the Cave but they will be relased automatically in the AP after 24 hours if you don't trade them to someone who have lesser than you

This would prevent to make the rich richer

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Vhale]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

 

I've been around for a little bit. In that time, one of the few things that has not changed is the identity of the players who most often catch CB metals. I know their scroll names, I know some of them directly, they even know (and compete with) each other. It honestly doesn't bother me that they can take advantage of the time and clicking skills they have in order to get the metals they catch.

 

If you release prize dragons in cave as rares, the vast majority of CB prize dragons that drop will end up on one of those scrolls rather than evenly distributed. Even if CB prizes are as common as CB golds, there will be people who still have absolutely no chance of ever catching one themselves, and very little chance of receiving a CB prize unless a better catcher is kind. It will not solve the issue most people have with low gen accessibility probably for years, unless the prizes are released in a flood first.

Pretty much. I like the coal idea better than this.

[purplehaze]

I don't see any slap in the face to non-winners, but I have my opinion and you have yours.

Edited February 13, 2014 by purplehaze

[Irys]

An honorable mention, is by definition, a lesser prize than 1st-3rd place. It's essentially 4th place.

 

The honorable mentions are able to be chosen from eggs that have previously been found in the cave/ have their parents in the cave (with a few specific restrictions).

 

This implies that 4th place can choose from dragons that have their origins in the cave.

 

This also implies that 1st through 3rd place are prizes of greater intrinsic value, or more special, than 4th place prizes.

 

Gold, for instance, is considered more precious than silver. That is why it is used as the award for the highest place. Silver is less precious than gold, but more precious than bronze. Therefore, bronze is more precious than whatever is given in 4th place.

 

 

1st-3rd prize in any and every instance are always of greater value than 4th place.

 

Releasing the 1st-3rd place prizes in the cave removes their intrinsic value (not the trading value, as trade value is subjective) and puts them on par, or worse, than 4th place.

 

In fact, it would be worse than 4th place simply through the fact that, as TJ himself has pointed out, prize dragons as a breed are more common than other dragons. There have been more prize dragons produced in a year than ANY OTHER COMMON dragon. They are common.

 

It IS disingenuous. The implication of the prize is this: "You get a prize of rarity based on your placing and that prize is of greater value than the 4th place prizes." Because 4th place (honorable mention) prizes are tied to cave releases, the implication here is that the 1-3rd place prizes are NOT tied to cave releases.

 

If you then release the prizes in the cave, and they are as common as TJ has already said they are, you have just made the 1st-3rd place prize no different than a waterhorse egg.

 

If the eggs were going to become as rare as a waterhorse egg at an unspecified later date then that should have been made clear from the beginning so that the 1st-3rd place winners could make an informed decision about if they wanted a limited release of a future cave egg or if they wanted a never-obtainable-in-the-cave CB Hybrid or Holiday dragon. As it is, the prize winners were never made aware of that possibility being on the table. That is what is disingenuous if the eggs are released in the cave.

 

 

(As for MMOs, you don't pay a subscription fee for beta testing. If you beta-test you get a special item for your character that other paying players don't get because they were not in beta.

 

edit: I have never paid for beta testing. It's been a few years, but that's my experience. Whether you pay or not is not actually my point.

 

edit: As noted, you pay for free beta with your time. You can pay for paid beta with money. And TECHNICALLY you do "pay" to enter the raffle. You get entered into the raffle based on opting into the raffle through some sort of participation. You can opt to not participate/pay. But you are not automatically entered into the raffle just because you joined the game. You have to do something in order to be entered into the raffle for the chance to win a prize.

 

BUT MY POINT ABOUT MMOS WAS THIS: Whether fees are charged for the service or not, both MMOs and Dragon Cave are closed environments and more closely related than Dragon Cave and any real world scenario. Both are played to escape reality, after all. Both are games. Both are closed environments.)

Edited February 13, 2014 by Irys

[Rosedamai]

I don't see any slap in the face to non-winners, but I have my opinion and you have yours.

....agreed, I dont see why losing is a slap in the face?...it happens in games all the time, like have you tried flappy bird

Edited February 13, 2014 by ylangylang

[Naruhina_94]

....agreed, I dont see why losing is a slap in the face?...it happens in games all the time, like have you tried flappy bird

Because it has long term disadvantages that hinder the game style of other players.

 

I've read that there shouldn't be requests that benefit only one game style over the others, somewere. Example: the one breed collection, so there shouldn't be anything that regard those who collect 200+ of a specific breed because not every player could want 200+ of the same dragon in his scroll.

This system prevent to those who needs CB of every type to do their style game, while, if we change something and prize dragons can be found in cave, none style game would be hampered

 

Prizes should be balanced to not bully others or make the game very focused on them, I think.

There are a lot of wonderful dragons that we can collect, and I'm fine with do common lineage, but this has nothing to do with the fact that I would like to do new lineage with new rares, too.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Red2111]

@ Irys - you're wrong about not paying fees for beta testing. look at Minecraft, and other betas that are comming out on both the PC and console platforms. people pay for that early access now. the old days of getting a bta of a game and not paying for it ended with the sucess of Minecraft

 

/gamming nerd

 

 

as for the subject, i dont support releasing the prizes in cave as they are. infact i dont support them being classified on the wiki as metallics. these dragons are prizes, even if their egg despcription is the same as golds.

 

having more CB tinsels and shimmers out there will skew the breeding ratios, and getting shinies out of some of those prize lines are hard enough (even when the line is 7G's long ) adding even more CB beeders into the mix will bring back a breeding drought imo and no one wants another of those.

 

as others have said, those dragons are won, from a raffle, outside of the cave. so it makes absolutely no sense canon wise why they would be in cave. the only way i could see a shimmer/tinsel being released in cave would be to release a "coal" variety like has been mentioned. but again, this does nothign for the impact of the breeding ratios that will happen.

 

 

tbh, all i see on this plee is people upset at not winning the raffle. i get it, i'm bummed i didn't win either. but not everyone wins and this entilitement that society seems to feel about fairness and "everyone gets a ribbon for participation" is bullshanks.

 

not everyong should ge a CB prize dragon, just like not everyone in the olympics gets a gold metal.

 

to be blunt, i think that the tinsels and shimmers shoudl be replaced next year with a new breed all together, and these 2 prizes moved to HM status to perserve the breeding ratios. the amount of CB Tinsels and Shimmers released into the market from this raffle doubled the total number of previous prizes in cave o.0 do you realize exactly how many shimmers and tinsels that is.

 

using statistics and economics to analyze the situation. every year TJ doubles the amount of CB prizes in the market.

 

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Prize_Dragons

 

there are exactly 180 total prize lines available. if TJ keeps with the pattern he's established and sticks with only Shimmers and Tinsels next raffle, for the 2014 raffle there will be 360 lines total, 180 lines that will be new. now do the multiplier effect, in the 2015 raffle the total number of lines will double to 720 with 360 new lines released.

 

imo, TJ's doing this pattern to try and establish a market equaliberium (where demand = supply). he offsets the increase or the player base and the demand for prize lines with the increase in CB prizes (counting in the factor of players retiring/not breeding their CB Prizes)

 

looking at it this way, and seeing the sher amount of CB prizes we will liely end up with (which discounts the inclusion of new prize breeds), its statistically probable that all of us will end up with a CB Prize one day so long as we continue playing and are active.

 

which is just another way of looking at why an in-cave release of Prize babies is not needed and only compounds the issue its aiming to fix. and is a more elaborate way to say "patience is a virture"

 

 

 

[Caio13z]

Releasing prize dragons identical to the original ones is unfair to the prize winners, but I like the idea of releasing prize dragons in other colors from cave, how this:

 

 

Let me know if I can not post pictures here

[purplehaze]

Releasing prize dragons identical to the original ones  is unfair to the prize winners, but I like the idea of releasing prize dragons in other colors from cave, how this:

 

The spriter of the tinsels has already said that she is not okay with a recolored version being released. Besides that is not the question in this thread. There is another suggestion thread for that.

Edited February 13, 2014 by purplehaze

[Caio13z]

Oh, sorry!