2021-08-22 - August Dragon Release

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

Tini is right that Infini doesn’t owe us anything and we have to make clear that this negativity is not directed at them or at their art but towards the force hatching mechanics. On the other hand, I understand (and share) the discomfort of people with another Earthquake-based variant, especially so soon after the previous one. 

[Fateweaver]

Honestly I just want to send out a big emphatic thank you to the artists for the new dragons! Thank you for bringing up more lovely babin's to collect and hoard and for interesting ways to get alts. :3

[HeatherMarie]

32 minutes ago, Silverwatermist said:

 I can't help but wonder how much actual user experience is being considered when implementing these types of mechanics (and yes, again, I know some people find it exciting and seeing complaints is a bummer. I apologize for that, but this is genuinely how I feel). Is the site moving towards the idea that "we're so saturated with different dragon breeds, we don't expect anyone to collect them all, so let's make some of them extra unique and tricky so you have to pick and choose what to get" instead of "this is a collectables game, collect everything whenever you can"? If so, the recent big releases and releases with gimmicks and difficult mechanics are starting to make sense, but it's not inspiring my excitement, personally. I'm one for the more relaxed releases we had to the past few times, and stuff like this makes me wary during new releases instead of excited 😕 Which is a shame when the art and lore are lovely and interesting.

 

(bolded for emphasis) This is honestly how it's starting to feel. To those of us who play every day and normally have multiple breed's eggs growing at once, being forced to significantly alter our playstyle in order to not risk killing other-breed eggs is just downright frustrating. To those of us who *want* to collect every breed, having multiple alts be nearly unobtainable without significantly altering the way we play is not fun. I've mentioned before, for *years* my base-scroll-goal has been 20 of every breed and variant. Green Cantors absolutely destroyed that, and now we have another. It really does feel like DC is moving towards making collecting harder and more involved, and while that's awesome to have a special breed every now and then that requires more work it's really disheartening to feel like that may be becoming the norm.

 

20 minutes ago, Wymsical said:

I've never not had a hatch when doing EQ anyway, and I've done it quite a lot at this point. When you do it properly, it's great when you've planned ahead and have a batch of stuff all caught within a few hours of one another. 

 

 I don't mean to call out your post, I'm just quoting you because I'm seeing this type of thing said multiple times in this thread.... HOW are people getting a 100% success rate with EQ??? If there is some sorcery to it please please explain it to the rest of us, because most of us have *not* had that experience. As I said before, just based on all the posts about it since green Cantors appeared users can do everything 'right' (waiting until the egg is lower-timed, getting it a lot of views, getting it to last-stage crack, etc etc) and *still* have eggs die. To me it's frustrating to see people saying it's fine when you do it 'properly' because based on many people's experience that's simply not true. To my knowledge there *is* no 100% way to make EQ successful, you can do everything 'properly' and still end up with dead eggs. 

(It's even worse with this one if it requires EQ to actually *hatch* it to be alted, that means if we get lucky and don't have the eggs die but they are unaffected we have to risk them *again* trying to get them to hatch? At least with green Cantors unaffected eggs count.)

 

@Tini  I honestly feel horrible if a spriter doesn't want to come here because people are frustrated over their release. I don't think that's anyone's intention. However, this isn't a case of spriters not being allowed to spoil things, if they have confirmed things on Discord. Confirming things elsewhere but not in the official release thread doesn't really feel great. I already feel horrible for all the users who aren't on the forums and have to rely on trial and error (or the unofficial wiki) to figure things out. 

I absolutely love the 'toothpaste' sprites so far, Infinis is an amazing spriter and I'm sure I'll love the adults because I love their other sprites. This is not at all about the sprites themselves, and really it's not even about the breed having specially-gotten variants, it's about EQ having such a huge kill-rate and not wanting to constantly risk killing eggs in order to get it. 

[natli]

I do not mind EQ, but since my scroll is often empty, it's easier to plan around it. Green Cantos were exciting to get, so if those are a bit harder I'm ok with it. Honestly, compared to Pink Sapphire anything seems doable to me.

 

That conversation above that people cannot report on what was said in discord, was funny. How dare they! 😂

[Wymsical]

4 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

 I don't mean to call out your post, I'm just quoting you because I'm seeing this type of thing said multiple times in this thread.... HOW are people getting a 100% success rate with EQ??? If there is some sorcery to it please please explain it to the rest of us, because most of us have *not* had that experience. As I said before, just based on all the posts about it since green Cantors appeared users can do everything 'right' (waiting until the egg is lower-timed, getting it a lot of views, getting it to last-stage crack, etc etc) and *still* have eggs die. To me it's frustrating to see people saying it's fine when you do it 'properly' because based on many people's experience that's simply not true. To my knowledge there *is* no 100% way to make EQ successful, you can do everything 'properly' and still end up with dead eggs. 

(It's even worse with this one if it requires EQ to actually *hatch* it to be alted, that means if we get lucky and don't have the eggs die but they are unaffected we have to risk them *again* trying to get them to hatch? At least with green Cantors unaffected eggs count.)

 

Please re-read what I said carefully. I said I've never not had a hatch, not that I've always had a 100% success rate. Granted I have had 100% success rates, but that's when I was EQing like 2-3 things. When I've got a full 8 there's always been a death or two for me, but I've never had 100% dead when following all EQ requirements and best practices. I didn't even have 100% death when I did the riskiest early-time EQ I've ever done (I don't recommend trying that, by the way.). It also often takes me multiple EQs to go through an entire batch of 8 eggs. I've had to use 5 EQs in a row before.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Wymsical

[Arcy]

just popping in to confirm that kill-forcing does not work for skittish, only EQ

 

[NEXROSSMA]

2 hours ago, Dalek said:

 

Infinis basically comfirmed the skittish hatchi is earthquake forced dependant in the discord. I am unsure about the kill mechanic but it behaves sort of like the eq mechanic but on just one egg. Before you ask, no, earthquake affected eggs cannot hatch into the skittish ones. One of the survivors hatched into the snuggly hatchi.

 

Before anyone gets angry or discouraged from this, Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly. I will be trading for mine (if not just outright earthquaking (terrified might i add)). She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

Forgotten BSA?Maybe it means "Remove Curse" or "Splash"?LMAO.To be honest,I think no one would forget "Earthquake" after Motus Cantormaris Dragons came up at Dragon Cave's 15th Birthday.

[MissK.]

3 minutes ago, Arcy said:

just popping in to confirm that kill-forcing does not work for skittish, only EQ

 

So the only other method that doesn't endanger every single egg on our scrolls also doesn't work. Any chance that's unintentional or is that too optimistic? 

[steeve]

i think people are misreading me as demanding mechanics and lore info. i know that's spoilers, and that's not what i'm talking about.

 

i'm referring specifically to what seems like people secondhand and indirectly quoting Infi saying "Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly," "She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten," and "Infi doesn't/didn't really have a say on these being released so soon." none of that is lore or dragon mechanics, that's more of explanation as to what Infi's goal with these guys was, and i'm a little confused why that can't be directly posted to the forum, instead of having others indirectly relay the message. secondhand is never a good route to go, and on the previous page a few people were getting irritated with the "BSA so commonly forgotten" phrasing when that may not even be what Infi said, since it's all secondhand and not a direct quote.

 

not demanding anything here but a little less he-said-she-said when it comes to quoting creators : ) it would be nice to have spriters pop in to set the record straight and be like 'hey, i understand EQ isn't for everyone but here's a guide to it and i hope this new sprite encourages people to play with EQ more' or something to that effect so it's not so much as us gleaming her intentions from someone else's words rather than letting Infi speak for herself. (or even some discord screenshots, so everyone can be on the same page if some prefer to only post on discord!) since this is the official release thread, i think this should be the news hub. can't take words out of context when they're said directly, tis all!

 

the sprites are lovely, of course. this has nothing to do with the art or Infi herself (or Dalek, who was very kind to relay the message!). mechanic makes them a bit more unattainable for some people, but c'est la vie! people are allowed to be annoyed with EQ, just as people are allowed to be annoyed with people being annoyed with EQ, and artists are allowed to use any concept they think is creative. that's just how it goes, and everyone is here for fun : ) it is still just a neat little game and we will always have trading.

Edited August 24, 2021 by steeve

[Tini]

19 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

@Tini  I honestly feel horrible if a spriter doesn't want to come here because people are frustrated over their release. I don't think that's anyone's intention. However, this isn't a case of spriters not being allowed to spoil things, if they have confirmed things on Discord. Confirming things elsewhere but not in the official release thread doesn't really feel great. I already feel horrible for all the users who aren't on the forums and have to rely on trial and error (or the unofficial wiki) to figure things out.

They haven't exactly confirmed anything outright, just like florets they can't actually say 'yeah theyre eq only' they can say 'i had 3 uneffected and this one will hatch in 15minutes' and we can watch it and see 'oh its a snuggle' just a Very broad hint. Someone else just posted their own here first. I actually just went and checked cause I thought I'd said something but I had been going to but then saw someone else already had with their own, so I didn't have to mention infi. The confirmation is just data points. That's all it is. If those data points are hinted at by an artist, that just makes them stronger.

 

 Edit:

2 minutes ago, steeve said:

i'm referring specifically to what seems like people secondhand and indirectly quoting Infi saying "Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly," "She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten," and "Infi doesn't/didn't really have a say on these being released so soon." none of that is lore or dragon mechanics

None of that's technically unknown. The first and second points came up during cantors, and everyone knows the artists dont have a clue when their things get released. If anything its just restating previous known info.

 

2 minutes ago, steeve said:

 (or even some discord screenshots, so everyone can be on the same page if some prefer to only post on discord!) can't take words out of context when they're said directly, tis all.

This is just my personal take in general, but I don't like discord screenshots being posted places. Between friends to a social media as a 'haha funny' moment is fine but like, anything past that makes me uncomfortable.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tini

[Nakti]

1 hour ago, Silverwatermist said:

Is the site moving towards the idea that "we're so saturated with different dragon breeds, we don't expect anyone to collect them all, so let's make some of them extra unique and tricky so you have to pick and choose what to get" instead of "this is a collectables game, collect everything whenever you can"?

 

I'd like to add that if this is the case, it should be stated explicitly. Same applies if game always was that.

Complaints arise only because this was not announced anywhere so we assume the game is casual, and these releases are like having Dark Souls style boss in the middle of the Sims.

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

Just now, Nakti said:

 

I'd like to add that if this is the case, it should be stated explicitly. Same applies if game always was that.

Complaints arise only because this was not announced anywhere so we assume the game is casual, and these releases are like having Dark Souls style boss in the middle of the Sims.

I don’t necessarily agree with you but this metaphor is hilarious and I love it.

Anyway, maybe better not to complain too hard about this variant otherwise it might be pulled out of the site and (almost) nobody will get to have it.

[MissK.]

4 minutes ago, Nakti said:

[...] these releases are like having Dark Souls style boss in the middle of the Sims.

 

That legit made me laugh, thanks. 

[Tini]

1 hour ago, Silverwatermist said:

Is the site moving towards the idea that "we're so saturated with different dragon breeds, we don't expect anyone to collect them all, so let's make some of them extra unique and tricky so you have to pick and choose what to get" instead of "this is a collectables game, collect everything whenever you can"?

It's really been doing the exact opposite for awhile. The trade hub, the holiday biome, the prize raffles, the market. It's literally been moving in the 'let everyone get every breed with a little work' for a couple years now.

[Adrak]

Everyone has different likes. Just as much as people hate harder mechanics, some of are happy to get stuff that takes more effort. A few breeds out of the many available with more complex designs aren't there to ruin your game, its to make it equally fun for those that want a bit more. 

[Selever]

I don't sure, did anyone say this before me, but my friend from catwar tell me for get alt new release from alpine/desert need to use earthquake BSA 

if someone tell this before me, to sorry ❤️

 

[steeve]

5 hours ago, Dragon Mage said:

If you want less 'he said, she said' then make use of the resources available. For example, the free community chatroom.

 

HeatherMarie responded to this so much better than I :

 

6 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

However, this isn't a case of spriters not being allowed to spoil things, if they have confirmed things on Discord. Confirming things elsewhere but not in the official release thread doesn't really feel great.

 

If this is the official news thread, then it should also be looped in with release news that have been confirmed elsewhere. I, personally, love when artists come in and post what they think of their own release, like inspiration and why the BSA variant works the way it does (note: i understand this is lore spoilers, i'm only using it as an example!). it would be a great time for Infi to drop that EQ guide to encourage players to not cross off EQ as a viable BSA alt mechanic and to give it a try if they haven't yet : )

 

~removed~

Edited August 24, 2021 by Kaini
phrasing

[Bambi]

26 minutes ago, steeve said:

i think people are misreading me as demanding mechanics and lore info. i know that's spoilers, and that's not what i'm talking about.

 

i'm referring specifically to what seems like people secondhand and indirectly quoting Infi saying "Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly," "She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten," and "Infi doesn't/didn't really have a say on these being released so soon." none of that is lore or dragon mechanics, that's more of explanation as to what Infi's goal with these guys was, and i'm a little confused why that can't be directly posted to the forum, instead of having others indirectly relay the message. secondhand is never a good route to go, and on the previous page a few people were getting irritated with the "BSA so commonly forgotten" phrasing when that may not even be what Infi said, since it's all secondhand and not a direct quote.

 

not demanding anything here but a little less he-said-she-said when it comes to quoting creators : ) it would be nice to have spriters pop in to set the record straight and be like 'hey, i understand EQ isn't for everyone but here's a guide to it and i hope this new sprite encourages people to play with EQ more' or something to that effect so it's not so much as us gleaming her intentions from someone else's words rather than letting Infi speak for herself. (or even some discord screenshots, so everyone can be on the same page if some prefer to only post on discord!) since this is the official release thread, i think this should be the news hub. can't take words out of context when they're said directly, tis all!

 

the sprites are lovely, of course. this has nothing to do with the art or Infi herself (or Dalek, who was very kind to relay the message!). mechanic makes them a bit more unattainable for some people, but c'est la vie! people are allowed to be annoyed with EQ, just as people are allowed to be annoyed with people being annoyed with EQ, and artists are allowed to use any concept they think is creative. that's just how it goes, and everyone is here for fun : ) it is still just a neat little game and we will always have trading.

No one should be speaking for Infi, as this can obviously be misconstrued when it's not coming from her personally. I don't believe Infi is reading this thread, or likely plans to at this rate, so she wouldn't have even known comments she may or may not have said were being thrown around unless made aware. She never ''confirmed'' anything on Discord, she has just revealed her own EQ results which has allowed other Discord users to feel comfortable to EQ theirs and report their findings, leading to the discovery of EQ being the required BSA to get the skittish variant. I chose to use the EQ feature at my own expense, and without a confirmation from Infi as there was never a 100% confirmation from her specifically. 

 

As nice as it would be, Infi shouldn't have to pop in to set the record straight and it's also not required. Stepping in here would likely result in her being flooded with people crapping on the BSA associated with this release and I completely respect her decision to remain silent in the thread at this point in time. It's like a lions den in here and I think people need to realise the things they say can come across a lot more hurtful than you think. (obviously not directed at you specifically alone, but I chose to quote you as you obviously referenced points from my initial comment)

 

Negatives aside, I'd like to congratulate both Infi and Doha on beautiful releases so far, and I can't wait to see the adults! <33 I'm just happy to be here for another new release so I can collect some new, pretty babies!

[Lushwave]

Dropping by to show my appreciation for the release as well as the potential force-hatch mechanic, my Greens are elated to become useful again (the Motuses apparently didn't interest me that much).

 

I'll write out my extended, more precise thoughts later when I'm not so tired but honestly, I don't get the mass salt against force-based alts? I think it's a neat spin on hatch management, and its difficulty is intentional - of course you have to take a risk and potentially lose things, that's probably the point of these alts and their uniqueness. also maybe i just like making egg go rumble rumble

 

And - regardless of the validity of a force-based alt - it seems the freedom DC allows its players is being quite misrepresented in this discussion; it's really up to the individual to either accept the challenge or ignore the alt altogether (or better yet, just obtain them through trading and continue to play your way normally). The game is not going to treat anyone differently for not having the Latest Newest Shiny Thing as soon as possible, or for not having a totally pristine and up-to-date "completed" scroll (after all, "scroll goals" and the like are just... self-imposed limits, are they not?).

At least in my belief, if acquisition of the alt will prove to be a source of stress for you, it's valid to just, y'know, take care of yourself and not spend your energy trying to collect it. Don't bite into sour grapes, I guess?

 

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think the mere existence of this alt is earth-shattering (hah) enough to ruin the game. If we keep getting EQ-exclusives again and again it would definitely be kind of concerning but... it's just two variants so far, barely enough to call a "trend" or conclude a "direction" of the game.

[Tini]

TJ wouldn't have confirmed anything like that, he didn't for florets. Its impossible to know until we have a clue how they're different. Current guess is different flame colors, but all we have is identical  sprites atm.

[KageSora]

Very disappointing that the some of the cool stuff is, several times now, getting locked behind extremely annoying and ridiculous mechanic restrictions that make it beyond frustrating to obtain or just plain unviable to build lineages with.

 

Doesn't matter how pretty they end up, they're not worth changing my entire playstyle to try and obtain.  If I end up with some great, but I'm not gonna bother trying all that hard.  A shame, I was looking forwards to what they might be like.  Ah well, some dragons are just out of reach I suppose.

 

Hopefully the other dragon doesn't have some annoying restriction in getting the alts...

[Falorni]

Just now, _Charky said:

...Especially given we don't know how common these eggs are...

I see them regularly both at hourly and the 5min drops and they tend to linger for a good bit, I'd DEFINITELY say they'll be on the common side.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, like, cantos are fairly uncommon and they at least only need to survive, if these are uncommon there's a real chance that to get an alt you might need to gamble on them surviving several EQs--not to mention that there's a good chance you don't get to keep the hatchling.

[Elizabeth Moonstone]

Criticising someting is not being hateful. 

Saying you dislike a game mechanic is not a personal attack on a spriter. 

Expressing frustration about a sprite being hard to get is not spouting vitriol.

Wishing the variant would not be Earthquake-based is exactly that, a wish, not a demand. 

 

People are allowed to dislike and criticise stuff, as long as they do it respectfully. Otherwise, we're having a forum full of yes-men and every message in this thread would be "I love it". What would be the point of that?

 

Now to change the subject before we all end up screaming at each other: I'm still betting for the Volcano dragons to be Siyat-like, with variant determined by how much they have in their time when they grow up. 

 

[_Charky]

2 minutes ago, Falorni said:

I see them regularly both at hourly and the 5min drops and they tend to linger for a good bit, I'd DEFINITELY say they'll be on the common side.

It's been two days.  Most of those two days will have been people with eggs they don't want to risk. As soon as people's scrolls empty out this could very easily change.