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2021-08-22 - August Dragon Release

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31 minutes ago, Dalek said:

It is a shame for the people who don't like to earthquake. I do hope that there is an alternative for this dragon

 

If it were only about not liking using EQ that would be very different, but it's not really about that. It's that using EQ comes with a *huge* risk, and we don't yet have any way to combat that risk except severely curbing our playing to make sure the only eggs we have are ones we are willing to risk. That's the biggest reason I'm going to be really frustrated if this does turn out to be another EQ-only variant, I have plenty of Greens and I'd gladly use EQ often but the fact that it has such a high risk of *death* is a really huge issue. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dalek said:

No, its a forced alt (earthquake or kill) 

 

Is that confirmed? Has someone actually gotten the skittish from using the Kill action? 

 

I'm honestly feeling not as eager to see the adults now, it honestly does take a lot of the excitement out of a release to know that at least one of them is going to require serious risk and I'm not going to be able to just have fun collecting the new babes. I'm hoping the mottled variants will be simple, but not holding my breath at this point. 

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3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Is that confirmed? Has someone actually gotten the skittish from using the Kill action? 

 

i would be willing to test myself if it didnt happen to be a month with 31 days... 🙄 kill spots are sparce and the timing on this was so bad, i dont have any to spare to try on my eggs 😕 

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23 minutes ago, Myoukin said:

Is this actually a confirmed fact or is that just the assumption being made based on current information?

 

22 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Is that confirmed? Has someone actually gotten the skittish from using the Kill action? 

Infinis basically comfirmed the skittish hatchi is earthquake forced dependant in the discord. I am unsure about the kill mechanic but it behaves sort of like the eq mechanic but on just one egg. Before you ask, no, earthquake affected eggs cannot hatch into the skittish ones. One of the survivors hatched into the snuggly hatchi.

 

Before anyone gets angry or discouraged from this, Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly. I will be trading for mine (if not just outright earthquaking (terrified might i add)). She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

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16 minutes ago, Dalek said:

She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

 

"Forgotten" is not the right word I'd use for it, everyone knows the BSA is there, but like someone said above, no one likes to use it because regardless of any precautions you take it still poses a great risk. And the fact we're now forced to use a largely disliked BSA to get an alt is ridiculous no matter how you look at it.

Edited by Axl-fox

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8 minutes ago, Dalek said:

She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

There was a reason why this BSA was 'forgotten'... It's a stupid mechanism where you loose more than you get. :(

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Dalek said:

Before anyone gets angry or discouraged from this, Infi does recognise that earthquaking is not for everyone but she does have a guide to earthquaking properly. I will be trading for mine (if not just outright earthquaking (terrified might i add)). She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

It's not so much forgotten as disliked. And it is disliked because of the risk involved. To force us to risk our eggs just to get a particular variant seems unfair to me. And correct me if I'm wrong, but even "properly" earthquaking your eggs comes with no guarantee, right?

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11 minutes ago, Dalek said:

She wants to encourage more users to use a BSA so commonly forgotten

My interpretation of the Earthquake is that is some kind of a last resort action. I was tempted to use it many times in Halloween for example when time is critical to get more eggs, huge risk but if it was succesful then I could have some eggs, but I've only used 3 times in all the years I've been playing, 2 times for Cantos like a month ago and tonight.

 

Besides, I'd like to take a look at that guide to properly EQing, maybe I could hoard eggs easier.

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14 minutes ago, Axl-fox said:

 

"Forgotten" is not the right word I'd use for it, everyone knows the BSA is there, but like someone said above, no one likes to use it because regardless of any precautions you take it still poses a great risk. And the fact we're now forced to use a largely disliked BSA to get an alt is ridiculous no matter how you look at it.

 

Yeah. I have nothing against spriters wanting to make their dragons interesting/special/etc, and I really don't fault Infinis or anyone else.... But I do sincerely think this is a worrying trend. Earthquake is not a 'forgotten' BSA, it's a *risky* BSA that often ends in death. If Infinis has a guide to 'earthquake properly' they are the first, even under the most ideal conditions users often still end up with dead eggs (see the threads in Site Discussion...). People have followed the tips/guidelines in those threads perfectly and still ended up with dead eggs. This is not a case of a BSA not being interesting or being forgotten or just being overlooked, this is very much a *risk of death* that is now *required* to get *two* separate breed-variants. I was really really hoping the green Cantors would be the only ones, I'm getting very concerned about this recent trend towards new releases having very strict, restrictive, specific, or downright risky requirements. 

 

As a user who literally is on DC for at least 3-4 hours every single day, the prospect of having to constantly risk egg-death to get a specific variant is simply not fun. It's not fun or exciting to try collecting variants that require very specific sensitive mechanics, it's just frustrating and feels kind of hopeless. Especially for those of us who's 'scroll goals' include more than just one or two of each breed. 

Edited by HeatherMarie

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2 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

It's not so much forgotten as disliked. And it is disliked because of the risk involved. To force us to risk our eggs just to get a particular variant seems unfair to me. And correct me if I'm wrong, but even "properly" earthquaking your eggs comes with no guarantee, right?

Not to mention the gymnastics players need to go through to make sure everything they don't want to risk killing is safely hatched first; a good portion of the time, that means locking myself out of biome hunting or breeding for 1-3 days so everything else is hatched without my earthquake targets dying from timeout first.

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Yeah, people know EQ exists--it just sucks to use, because unlike kill-forcing it not only risks the egg you're trying to hatch but your entire clutch. It's a badfeel BSA and I really hate that we're getting yet another breed that alts based on it.

Edited by Guillotine

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Aww. Popped in to check and see if more info was discovered about these and am a bit disappointed to learn that they are yet another breed that requires risking death to get. Guess I'll maybe try with one egg. Otherwise, I will be trading for the skittish version.  I know I have a platinum trophy and all, but I really don't like potentially wasting scroll space by killing dragons that I've already dedicated effort to raising. 

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I agree that while I may not like use of the bsa, unfortunately Infi doesn't/didn't really have a say on these being released so soon. It's just really bad timing that these got released so soon without us habing narely any time to breath from all these new mechanics between the cantors and the birthday release

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This is even worse than the Cantos. At least for them, an unaffected egg would still hatch green. For this, the egg actually needs to be hatched by the earthquake, making it harder/riskier. 
I very much didn’t like Earthquaking for Cantos, not keen on doing it again so soon, so I guess I’ll wait to collect this variant.

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10 minutes ago, Dalek said:

I agree that while I may not like use of the bsa, unfortunately Infi doesn't/didn't really have a say on these being released so soon. It's just really bad timing that these got released so soon without us habing narely any time to breath from all these new mechanics between the cantors and the birthday release

The timing of the release has very little to do with people not liking EQ. They could have been released next year and I would probably still feel the same way.

Edited by Jazeki
Rephrase

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So excited to see the skittish adults, already getting ideas from the implied lore. Skittish toothpaste hatchies my beloved.

 

The volcs, I can't wait to have the confusion of why 7 eggs solved. It torments my every waking moment. No change in hatchies. What will the adults be.

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@Fuzzbucket That was what said on Discord at least. “Before you ask, no, earthquake affected eggs cannot hatch into the skittish ones. One of the survivors hatched into the snuggly hatchi.”

 
Jazeki beat me to it. :)

Edited by Elizabeth Moonstone

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17 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Do we know they won't hatch skittish if they are unaffected ?

Yeah, I just tried lumping the one stripe egg in with the Cantors I was already planning on quaking once everything else hatched; the egg remained unaffected by the quake and hatched snuggly.

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yeah that's really bad. Green cantos wasn't great, but at least you just needed the eggs to stay alive. Trying to get them to hatch via earthquake and not die or flee is WAY harder!

 

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I ... honestly feel so tired right now at the prospect of more BSA alts, but especially at Earthquake ones, and especially ones that MUST hatch VIA Earthquake rather than being able to alt if unaffected by it. If that's really how it works, then I'm ignoring my scroll goals and just not going to collect that alt unless someone happens to offer one on one of my trades.

For those who find this type of mechanic exciting, that's nice, have at it. I just strongly believe a dragon being released at all is special enough as-is without so many of them having gimmicks. I realize that these mechanics are usually explained by/combined with the dragon's lore into very creative ideas, but from a gameplay standpoint, Earthquake is very disruptive to regular users who are on here daily with constant cycles of eggs coming through. I can't help but wonder how much actual user experience is being considered when implementing these types of mechanics (and yes, again, I know some people find it exciting and seeing complaints is a bummer. I apologize for that, but this is genuinely how I feel). Is the site moving towards the idea that "we're so saturated with different dragon breeds, we don't expect anyone to collect them all, so let's make some of them extra unique and tricky so you have to pick and choose what to get" instead of "this is a collectables game, collect everything whenever you can"? If so, the recent big releases and releases with gimmicks and difficult mechanics are starting to make sense, but it's not inspiring my excitement, personally. I'm one for the more relaxed releases we had to the past few times, and stuff like this makes me wary during new releases instead of excited 😕 Which is a shame when the art and lore are lovely and interesting.

Edited by Silverwatermist

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8 minutes ago, steeve said:

@Fuzzbucket that's exactly what i'm saying--why does Dalek have to be the middleman here instead of Infi just directly posting this info on the official release thread...? is this not the official forum that's linked on the main site that always shows top news threads...? i don't like discord. i'm not going to go there for info when it should be in the main thread. this stuff needs to be said here instead of relying on other users to convey it to us. it's just weird to have someone else explain Infi's reasoning instead of herself. 

 

back on topic. i'm totally with Tini here on the fire guys. although it's a bummer they don't alt as mature hatchlings, yet it does make it more mysterious why there's 7 of them lol. i don't think it'll be a new gender, but that only makes me wonder more which one will be the odd one out. anyone know when TJ's are set to grow up?

Can I just say, Infi hasn't asked for anyone to speak on her behalf on the Forums. Dalek has simply chosen to relay the message herself to others here so people who aren't on Discord can know what's going on, what works and what we've discovered so far. On Discord, we like to experiment with NR and figure out special mechanisms quite quickly so I think sharing our experiments and knowledge here should be no issue and people shouldn't always rely on the artist themselves to come forward with this knowledge, especially so early on in the release with users eggs only just being ready to hatch. Technically, Infi doesn't owe anyone anything. She doesn't need to come on here or on Discord and tell everyone right this instance how to get certain variants etc, if her main source of interaction is on Discord then it's on Discord. It's not like she wants the Forum based users to be disadvantaged in any shape or form. That's all I have to say in regards to this.

 

I will say, Earthquake is a BSA I'm not exactly fond of. I have used it a total of two times since being a user on DC (since the beginning of 2010) and those two times have literally been only this year. During May, when the Motus Cantors were released and today when I aimed to get the skittish coloured hatchies. If I could've avoided using this BSA to get this coloured hatchie, I would have. But, I think challenging users into getting out of their comfort zone and getting some more people into BSAs that aren't used as much is a pretty cool thing. I know it's disappointing for some, but it doesn't mean you won't ever get this coloured hatchie. There's gifting threads all over the Forums and channels on Discord that offer this too, you've got the trading hub as well. There are options! I hope everyone is able to get some skittish hatchies very soon. I'm more than happy to hold eggs people don't want to risk losing while they use the EQ function. :wub:

 

 

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As someone who is a lurker-type on forums but very active on one of the Discords, I can tell you first-hand that many of us often experiment during atypical releases like this, organise our findings, and someone goes and posts it to the release thread to help inform others. I know I've done this, someone in this thread has already done it, and if you go and look in release threads of the past, many others have done it as well. It may not always be stated the information came from Discord, but when it's stuff to do with hatching and not to do with things discovered initially (like hybrid combos), odds are pretty good it came from Discord. Not wanting to be on Discord is fine, but I can confidently say that at least the Discord I'm most active in doesn't withhold information from people—quite the opposite, actually, it's just that for us when we post it to the forum we prefer to have it mostly figured out and organised for your convenience. Discord can be very chaotic when we're initially figuring stuff out, so much so that even many Discord regulars just wait until the more chaotically-inclined among us have mostly figured stuff out and condensed it into one or two pinned posts in a Discord channel.

Anyway, as a madman who liked EQ before it was all the rage, I appreciate another forcing variant. It's still a bit tough to catch more than 1-2 Cantors in a day due to their having so many forms, but with this new kid on the block I can totally lock myself on a bunch of these that will be so much easier to catch alongside those 1-2 Cantors, and just totally go to town all at once. When I'm really busy and won't check in more than a few minutes for a given day, losing a few slots isn't so bad. I've never not had a hatch when doing EQ anyway, and I've done it quite a lot at this point. When you do it properly, it's great when you've planned ahead and have a batch of stuff all caught within a few hours of one another. There's a ton of dragons with completely normal hatching mechanics already, and I will always appreciate something more user-controllable (EQ does have a twinge of RNG, but it is not pure RNG at the end of the day) over complete and total RNG to get variants.

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32 minutes ago, steeve said:

back on topic. i'm totally with Tini here on the fire guys. although it's a bummer they don't alt as mature hatchlings, yet it does make it more mysterious why there's 7 of them lol. i don't think it'll be a new gender, but that only makes me wonder more which one will be the odd one out. anyone know when TJ's are set to grow up?

TJ's dragons are sitting at 5 days 6 hours at the time of writing, so I'd imagine in roughly a day and 6-7 hours since most eggs/hatchies hatch/mature around the 4 day-3 day 23 hours mark.

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9 minutes ago, Silverwatermist said:

I ... honestly feel so tired right now at the prospect of more BSA alts, but especially at Earthquake ones, and especially ones that MUST hatch VIA Earthquake rather than being able to alt if unaffected by it. ...

Yeah, that's where I'm at 😕 Tired is a good word for it. 

 

It's starting to feel like the focus is shifting more towards 'how can we make all these new breeds different mechanically' instead of 'look at this awesome sprite' and, yeah... IMO the game is very quickly losing it's charm and becoming more frustrating than fun. 

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I'd just like to say, you wonder why infi doesn't wanna post to fourms, while loudly complaining about how much you hate the mechanic. They just wanna have fun with their release, they have no reason to come in here and just read about people hating it.

 

They also can't just come here and give you the play by play of the mechanics, I'm fairly sure that counts as spoilers and TJ would frown upon it. Nobody was allowed to tell us how the new florets worked, for example, we had to puzzle it out ourselves. Once things start hatching, we can use spriters hatches as proof to back our theory, they're probably aiming for what they want from the release of course, but they can't actually tell us anything outright (unless its wrong, like the florets). They can only hint.

 

Heck, they can't even say a release is theirs until the eggs hatch and their name is on the hatchie. Artists that only work on the adults have to wait even longer to join in the hype.

Edited by Tini

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