Suggestions for Sweets

[Fuzzbucket]

13 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

If TJ doesn't want alts to spread, put me solidly in the camp of reverting things back to how they were.  In the immortal words of Cogsworth, "If it's not baroque, don't fix it."

 

Amen to that.

[laertid]

7 minutes ago, Naruhina_94 said:

These are not separate options, but should all be implemented overtime:

 

1 ) People who had troubles in 2010 would have been rewarded with a special trophy icon that nobody else could have, like a different color sprite of this year valentine's event or something like a nice frame around their scroll, a free ticket for the next draw of prize dragons, pick one. -> this would serve to "alleviate the drama" concerning loosing their exclusivity, because they still would get something precious that could be recognized after all the changes BUT wouldn't create possibile unfair scenarios.

+

2 ) Give Sweetling a BSA just like Aegis Dragon. If it happens to be a Refusal in your scroll (an event that doesn't add much to the game right now) the pink sweetling would be able to turn and viceversa. This would allow people who want it pink to have it pink, black to have it black.

+

3 ) OPTIONAL: raise the CB limit to 4

 

BSA restrictions:

a ) If you still want to keep ALT black sweetling as a rare thing you could even think about a failing rate of this BSA with a very long cooldown time just like Summon is.

 

Lineage issues:

I know people are worried that their lineages could get ruined by the sudden decision of turning the ancestors to a different color, but honestly this is already happening with Aegis and i personally don't see so many troubles about it. If we can deal with Aegis i believe we should do the same with Sweetlings. The only way i see to prevent any of the issues that could emerge is:

a ) making the BSA working only on hatchlings.

 

Thank you for your opinion! I like these ideas too, especially BSA. And CB limits... as I've already said, with holiday biome they most likely would be raised anyway, sooner or later.

1 hour ago, JavaTigress said:

Certainly this is a valid concern with this thing, and new CBs might help prevent it.

 

This runs into two major points.

 

ONE are the current CB alt owners OK with the idea of allowing more CBs?

TWO, and perhaps even more important, is Kila ( spriter for the sweetlings) OK witht he idea of allowing more CBs?

 

If the answers to both are yes, then by all means, if not... well... we may have to think of something else.

 

Ughghghhh. I understand contacting the spriter (IIRC, several people tried to contact them already? Though I feel it's not really right thing to do, because it's what TJ and TJ only is supposed to do in my opinion... but well). But I don't quite understand why ask the current alt owners. No one asked the old prize owners before implementing a new once-a-month lottery. No one asked old holly owners before making a Christmas biome, or old Pumpkin\Arsani owners before making Halloween\Valentine biomes. And I'm kinda sure if there will be any, say, super rare lottery with a Neglected prize, no one will be asking old Neglected owners opinion either.

[Fuzzbucket]

7 minutes ago, laertid said:

 

Thank you for your opinion! I like these ideas too, especially BSA. And CB limits... as I've already said, with holiday biome they most likely would be raised anyway, sooner or later.

 

Ughghghhh. I understand contacting the spriter (IIRC, several people tried to contact them already? Though I feel it's not really right thing to do, because it's what TJ and TJ only is supposed to do in my opinion... but well). But I don't quite understand why ask the current alt owners. No one asked the old prize owners before implementing a new once-a-month lottery. No one asked old holly owners before making a Christmas biome, or old Pumpkin\Arsani owners before making Halloween\Valentine biomes. And I'm kinda sure if there will be any, say, super rare lottery with a Neglected prize, no one will be asking old Neglected owners opinion either.

 

This actually. Never occurred to me before. I get asking Kila, but otherwise.... I suppose it's because the sprites are actually different - but even so... OK this "solution" is dire, but TJ can read the threads and decide how best to fix it. (Please lord let him do that. The first thing he did was dire - but this one really isn't any better.)

Edited February 11, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Brekke]

4 minutes ago, laertid said:

But I don't quite understand why ask the current alt owners. No one asked the old prize owners before implementing a new once-a-month lottery. No one asked old holly owners before making a Christmas biome, or old Pumpkin\Arsani owners before making Halloween\Valentine biomes. And I'm kinda sure if there will be any, say, super rare lottery with a Neglected prize, no one will be asking old Neglected owners opinion either.

This is the problem in a nutshell, and always has been at Dragon Cave, going back to the beginning.  There never seems to be any consistent decision-making at the top.  As many have stated--that was the only glitch that got folks an alt, and there have been many, many glitches.  The Valentine alts are an outlier--unique--if we're getting holiday biomes for new hollies, etc., just bite the bullet and let everyone have 2 cb pinks and 2 cb blacks.  Thinking back to the glitch--didn't folks lose their eggs for well under an hour?  I've always wonder how many got alts and didn't even know it until the next day, etc., no anxiety at all.  

[JavaTigress]

13 minutes ago, Brekke said:

This is the problem in a nutshell, and always has been at Dragon Cave, going back to the beginning.  There never seems to be any consistent decision-making at the top.  As many have stated--that was the only glitch that got folks an alt, and there have been many, many glitches.  The Valentine alts are an outlier--unique--if we're getting holiday biomes for new hollies, etc., just bite the bullet and let everyone have 2 cb pinks and 2 cb blacks.  Thinking back to the glitch--didn't folks lose their eggs for well under an hour?  I've always wonder how many got alts and didn't even know it until the next day, etc., no anxiety at all.  

Yeah.... good point.

And as for asking the alt owners, I never got the feeling that most of them were direly opposed to the idea of letting more folks have alts,anyway ( THOUGH clearly, I can't speak for all...) the bigger issue I think is what Kila thinks.I THINK, as someone said we might be waiting,a t this point to see what she has to say about it? That being said, it would be nice if TJ would say something regarding this. Hearing his thoughts on the matter might be good?

[Fuzzbucket]

16 minutes ago, Brekke said:

This is the problem in a nutshell, and always has been at Dragon Cave, going back to the beginning.  There never seems to be any consistent decision-making at the top.  As many have stated--that was the only glitch that got folks an alt, and there have been many, many glitches.  The Valentine alts are an outlier--unique--if we're getting holiday biomes for new hollies, etc., just bite the bullet and let everyone have 2 cb pinks and 2 cb blacks.  Thinking back to the glitch--didn't folks lose their eggs for well under an hour?  I've always wonder how many got alts and didn't even know it until the next day, etc., no anxiety at all.  

 

 Oh there was anxiety; some got there the next day and found there was nothing. Time zones...

[Starscream]

1 hour ago, LadyLyzar said:

I own alts as I stated before, and I thought this change was... unexpected to say the least.  I had no idea it was coming myself.

 

I thought the gift of alts was unusual, but kind, considering the stress during the Sweetling release and how difficult it was to get those eggs the first time.  The lag was terrible.  Even people who don't have issues catching were struggling and DC's userbase was smaller back then.  I don't remember exactly what was going on - server issues maybe - but it seemed worse than the usual holiday lag by far.  I wasn't a mod then so I was in the dark as much as everyone else.

 

I can also see both sides to this.  On the one hand, I think keeping the original spirit of the gift makes sense, but I also never expected the alts to breed true on my scroll.  I was expecting just the original CBs to be black and that be the end of it - so it was a surprise the first time I bred them.  It can make finding AP lineages a little tricky because if I find a pretty pink baby, I automatically "ruin" it because my hatchling alts immediately.  That being said, my alts never could leave my scroll as alts unless they went to someone else who already had alts.  So I wasn't exactly "making them widespread".

 

I also understand those who would like an alt sweetling, since alt owners are now able to get both.  The change doesn't make a ton of sense to me and I do understand why people see it as unfair.

 

If TJ doesn't want alts to spread, put me solidly in the camp of reverting things back to how they were.  In the immortal words of Cogsworth, "If it's not baroque, don't fix it."

 

She says things better than I do: But exactly this.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 minutes ago, Starscream said:

 

She says things better than I do: But exactly this.

 

That makes three of us so far. The beginning of a Movement

[Naruhina_94]

This "movement" doesn't answer nor counter debate anything of my previous statement:

Quote

I also want to underline an important thing: learn from our previous suggestions and argues, guys. Do you even remember the big chaos surrounding Prize dragons? There has always been the chance to get them 2nd gen, it was never denied. However a large fan base population felt the need to have them CB and that's indeed the only way to have true freedom in lineage projiect, collecting objectives, equal trades etc... We evetually managed to have monthly raffles, which to me are a big and marvelous improvement to the game, but we achieved that only after years and years debating.

 

That's why, in my opinion, simply allowing true breeding or going back to what it was are ineffective solutions: Sweetlings would go back to what prize dragons were. I could be able to get a 2nd gen black sweetling (which would be super cool) and i would also know at the same time that i am not able to do checkers and plans with it properly because i don't have a CB black sweetling.

 

I suggest for us to find a solution that helps fix ALL the major issues.  I would also like if people stop saying that "there was nothing wrong before", "there  was no problem at all before this event" because this is so obviously untrue. If it was true there wouldn't be so big discussion around this time of the year, when unbalance shows more bright than ever.

 

This is something that still have relevance to me.

[Wookieinmashoo]

1 hour ago, LadyLyzar said:

I can also see both sides to this.  On the one hand, I think keeping the original spirit of the gift makes sense, but I also never expected the alts to breed true on my scroll.  I was expecting just the original CBs to be black and that be the end of it - so it was a surprise the first time I bred them.  It can make finding AP lineages a little tricky because if I find a pretty pink baby, I automatically "ruin" it because my hatchling alts immediately.  That being said, my alts never could leave my scroll as alts unless they went to someone else who already had alts.  So I wasn't exactly "making them widespread".

 

If TJ doesn't want alts to spread, put me solidly in the camp of reverting things back to how they were.  In the immortal words of Cogsworth, "If it's not baroque, don't fix it."

 

There was an instance the year after the sweetlings were released. Someone with alts either didn't have a second sweetling or released one to get a bred one. It turned pink on their scroll when it hatched and it made people mad. One person thought they shouldn't have more of the alts (as in hoard them). It was broughtup we could only have two any way and people shouldn't be allowed to have one of each. The hatchling wasn't supposed to be pink and was changed to black because scrolls were coded one way or another. Then the limits were raised and again, still one color. I kept thinking why things were changed and it started to make sense. If people with alts wanted another CB, those CBs were not affected by any glitch, so what is the reasoning behind them being alts. I don't like it but I finally get the changes now. I would still like things to be put back or if the artist wants to change things , then that would be fine too. I guess I will just have to find a different dragon to collect on valentines day. After I got over that I was messing up lineages and the alts only worked with a handful of dragons, I ended up liking it.

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/Lz7F8

https://dragcave.net/lineage/ALH2Y

https://dragcave.net/lineage/fCbvX

[LadyLyzar]

Quote

I would also like if people stop saying that "there was nothing wrong before", "there  was no problem at all before this event" because this is so obviously untrue.

'

For many people - those who own alts and those who do not - this is true.

 

Yes, Alt sweets are a weird mechanic but it's a mechanic that is 8 years old (7 if you get into breeding).  The userbase has adapted to it and it's become part of the game.  People have built amazing lineages with both types of sweetlings in them.  If anything, I consider it one of the interesting spices in the soup that is DC.  Honestly, having alts is a bit of a hindrance for me because it makes it harder to find Sweetling lineages I can participate in. 

 

From observation, they also don't have near the trade value that people seem to assume because most people cannot continue a lineage with them as they do not stay alts once they are off the alt owner's scroll.  I feel that makes them entirely different than 2g Prizes.  I have never been asked to breed my alt sweets for anyone until yesterday when I was asked if I could replace a viewbombed egg. 

 

Never have I seen so much drama about the sweetlings until the mechanic was messed with unexpectedly.  I think it was a learning experience for all of us.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Wookieinmashoo said:

I kept thinking why things were changed and it started to make sense. If people with alts wanted another CB, those CBs were not affected by any glitch, so what is the reasoning behind them being alts. I don't like it but I finally get the changes now. I would still like things to be put back or if the artist wants to change things , then that would be fine too.

 

This I do understand completely.  It doesn't make sense to have more alts as CBs if the gift mentality is retained.  Also, being able to obtain non-alts helps alt owners regarding building non-alt lineages.  However, I still find this change completely unnecessary, because as before - the userbase adapted and it fostered a spirit of cooperation among players.

Edited February 11, 2018 by LadyLyzar
Cuz I can't type

[Fuzzbucket]

13 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

.  However, I still find this change completely unnecessary, because as before - the userbase adapted and it fostered a spirit of cooperation among players.

 

Applauds.

[Naruhina_94]

18 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

'

For many people - those who own alts and those who do not - this is true.

 

Yes, Alt sweets are a weird mechanic but it's a mechanic that is 8 years old (7 if you get into breeding).  The userbase has adapted to it and it's become part of the game.  People have built amazing lineages with both types of sweetlings in them.  If anything, I consider it one of the interesting spices in the soup that is DC.    If anything, having alts is a bit of a hindrance for me because it makes it harder to find Sweetling lineages I can participate in. 

 

From observation, they also don't have near the trade value that people seem to assume because most people cannot continue a lineage with them as they do not stay alts once they are off the alt owner's scroll.  I feel that makes them entirely different than 2g Prizes.  I have never been asked to breed my alt sweets for anyone until yesterday when I was asked if I could replace a viewbombed egg. 

 

Never have I seen so much drama about the sweetlings until the mechanic was messed with unexpectedly.  I think it was a learning experience for all of us.

 

 

Still I don't see why we should adapt instead of overcome some things that for many people - those who own alts and those who do not - it is a problem. Your assertion that many people find the previous situation a good one doesn't deny the opposite, too.

Yes, people can build amazing lineages with both kinds of sweetlings in it, but my suggestion doesn't forbid that. My suggestion involves that everybody would be able to do it, no matter the original color locked into their scroll. The "challenge" would still remain to keep the lineage as pure as possibile, and I belive this will incentive even more breeding, so to keep all the dragon of your own lineages to properly breed without risking any interference.

This is why i dislike the following solutions:

 

1) allowing true breeding (no matter the scroll): would create black sweetlings that produces black sweetling even when the egg ends up into a pink Sweet's scroll = issue as Prize dragon. If people can not collect CBs of a certain dragon but could get their 2nd gens they will inevitably feel blocked and with hands tied. Afterall this automatically implies that they couldn't create a proper mate for the dragon they received/found. This also is aggravated by the fact that ALT black sweetling owner will inevitably decrease over time, making the pool even more low.

 

2) going back to what it was (one color per scroll): Still, the CB black sweetling population will decrease, an highly valuable and wished dragon will remain available only to a small group of regular-users. BOTH black sweetling and pink sweetling owners who wished to collect the breed they don't have will remain unsatisfied.

 

The big question here is simple: how and why would be a negative thing to allow everyone to have both types of CBs ? Especially if we implement the other points i wrote down in my previous post? Why we can't all take a reasonable and happy agreement to share a nice dragon sprites? I would done it both to prevent estinction and to help people building the proper lineages they want to, which as far as i know, still remains one of the main goals of this game.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Naruhina_94

[LadyLyzar]

I have nothing against having alts released as CBs.  However, I do not see that happening based on the changes that were unexpectedly implemented.  Those were explicitly designed to limit the number of alts and not increase them.

 

As such, if new CBs can't/won't happen, I would prefer things to revert how they were.

[Naruhina_94]

1 minute ago, LadyLyzar said:

I have nothing against having alts released as CBs.  However, I do not see that happening based on the changes that were unexpectedly implemented.  Those were explicitly designed to limit the number of alts and not increase them.

 

As such, if new CBs can't/won't happen, I would prefer things to revert how they were.

 

In this case I agree with that.

[TOP]

I'm very surprised that alt sweetling owners can now have both sprites. The alt sweetling mechanism wasn't that fair before, but this change made it even more unfair.

Well, here's a solution I thought of.

 

First I thought that sweetlings breeding true would be the best solution.

But, I've seen many beautiful lineages that had both sprites, so if they breed true then those lineages would no longer be produced.

So I thought of another way.

 

For regular sweetling owners : Sweetlings from pinks will be pink. Sweetlings from alts will have a 50:50 chance to alt, and will be black if moved on to an alt scroll.

For alt sweetling owners        : Sweetlings from alts will be alts. Sweetlings from pinks will have a 50:50 chance to be pink, and will be pink if moved on to a regular scroll.

This is something like scroll-coded+chances to get the other color for every player (+ some breeding issues covered.. If my perfect black checkers suddenly start producing pink sweetlings on my scroll.. not very nice..)

[laertid]

17 minutes ago, TOP said:

For regular sweetling owners : Sweetlings from pinks will be pink. Sweetlings from alts will have a 50:50 chance to alt, and will be black if moved on to an alt scroll.

For alt sweetling owners        : Sweetlings from alts will be alts. Sweetlings from pinks will have a 50:50 chance to be pink, and will be pink if moved on to a regular scroll.

 

So yeah. As I posted above - creating artificial rarity, 50% more rare dragon altogether (compared to "black only breed black" thing). Wee-ho. Please no.

[Naruhina_94]

22 minutes ago, TOP said:

I'm very surprised that alt sweetling owners can now have both sprites. The alt sweetling mechanism wasn't that fair before, but this change made it even more unfair.

Well, here's a solution I thought of.

 

First I thought that sweetlings breeding true would be the best solution.

But, I've seen many beautiful lineages that had both sprites, so if they breed true then those lineages would no longer be produced.

So I thought of another way.

 

For regular sweetling owners : Sweetlings from pinks will be pink. Sweetlings from alts will have a 50:50 chance to alt, and will be black if moved on to an alt scroll.

For alt sweetling owners        : Sweetlings from alts will be alts. Sweetlings from pinks will have a 50:50 chance to be pink, and will be pink if moved on to a regular scroll.

This is something like scroll-coded+chances to get the other color for every player (+ some breeding issues covered.. If my perfect black checkers suddenly start producing pink sweetlings on my scroll.. not very nice..)

 

it is not a bad idea, but it won't help either. First of all those with CB pink sweetling won't be able to have black CB ones unless the cap limits increase (which is unlikely). Second the drama for not being able to have luck on a certain color will lead to frustration. People usually wish for things they can have a reasonable control over, especially in games based on organization, foreseeing future lineages and projects like this one.

[RainDear]

My opinion, just my opinion. Not intending to speak for anyone else.

 

First, as an alt owner, I personally have no objection to others being able to get alts - even as CBs. The birth date on mine guarantees that they will always be recognized as the gift they were, that's enough "special" for me. But by saying that alts won't get wider distribution TJ seems to have said that this won't happen. We don't know whether any of our discussion can change his mind on this unless/until he gives us some input. Of course his decision is based on or influenced by the spriter's wishes and we don't know for sure what those are either.

 

If further distribution is not possible, then we are left with 2 alternatives:

 

1. Things go back to what we had before. If this happens then I expect every February to see the same "Why can't everyone have them? What's "Special" about those few (and ever fewer) owners that they are the only ones who have them?" and the same discussions, arguments, and bitterness we have had for the past 8 years. Of course there is nothing "special" about alt owners just an odd circumstance that occurred when DC, the spriters, and TJ were younger and less wise. I am not too fond of this solution, because I would like to see the end of this strife and divisiveness created by this situation.

 

2. All Sweetlings become pink. This would end the strife once and for all. There would be no further reason for a large portion of the player base to feel (or be) cheated of something that only a select few ever had. This wouldn't make me happy by any means, but it would achieve my objective - an end to the yearly bickering and enmity.

 

By far the best solution in my eyes would be for alt ownership to open up to the entire player population so that everyone can have all the sprites and be happy. Barring that everyone should have the same sprites. A chosen few should not have something that is denied to the rest.

 

Edit: changed #2 to what I meant. Didn't say it right.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by raindear
changed #2 to what I meant. Didn't say it right.

[Naruhina_94]

1 minute ago, raindear said:

My opinion, just my opinion. Not intending to speak for anyone else.

 

First, as an alt owner, I personally have no objection to others being able to get alts - even as CBs. The birth date on mine guarantees that they will always be recognized as the gift they were, that's enough "special" for me. But by saying that alts won't get wider distribution TJ seems to have said that this won't happen. We don't know whether any of our discussion can change his mind on this unless/until he gives us some input. Of course his decision is based on or influenced by the spriter's wishes and we don't know for sure what those are either.

 

If further distribution is not possible, then we are left with 2 alternatives:

 

1. Things stay just as they are. If this happens then I expect every February to see the same "Why can't everyone have them? What's "Special" about those few (and ever fewer) owners that they are the only ones who have them?" and the same discussions, arguments, and bitterness we have had for the past 8 years. Of course there is nothing "special" about alt owners just an odd circumstance that occurred when DC, the spriters, and TJ were younger and less wise. I am not too fond of this solution, because I would like to see the end of this strife and divisiveness created by this situation.

 

2. All Sweetlings become pink. This would end the strife once and for all. There would be no further reason for a large portion of the player base to feel (or be) cheated of something that only a select few ever had. This wouldn't make me happy by any means, but it would achieve my objective - an end to the yearly bickering and enmity.

 

By far the best solution in my eyes would be for alt ownership to open up to the entire player population so that everyone can have all the sprites and be happy. Barring that everyone should have the same sprites. A chosen few should not have something that is denied to the rest.

 

 

 agree with you, but I really would feel bad to see the second option to be chosen. Honestly I don't have any beef against those who can collect both, I am HAPPY that CB black sweetling owner can collect pink CBs too. I just wish for it to be be a reality for everyone. Maybe we just need to go through steps, with time and perseverance it will become clearer that it is easier to give bread to everyone than saying: be happy for your brioche. (hystorical quote)

[TOP]

@Naruhina_94 Ah, I get the point about leading to frustration, especially that this is a dragon you could breed once a year. I see my setback in the solution I suggested, thanks for pointing it out.

About the CBs.. well I couldn't think of any way for cool things out for this so I chose to remain silent.

[Naruhina_94]

no problem, that's why I originally suggest a BSA to turn them instead of a chance when it hatches. Not only you can choose to use it or not, but it could be implemented a fail rate and a specific Cooldown time to make it fair AND you could use it through the entire year, not only in this short week.

 

Quote

These are not separate options, but should all be implemented overtime:

1 ) People who had troubles in 2010 would have been rewarded with a special trophy icon that nobody else could have, like a different color sprite of this year valentine's event or something like a nice frame around their scroll, a free ticket for the next draw of prize dragons, pick one. -> this would serve to "alleviate the drama" concerning loosing their exclusivity, because they still would get something precious that could be recognized after all the changes BUT wouldn't create possibile unfair scenarios.

+

2 ) Give Sweetling a BSA just like Aegis Dragon. If it happens to be a Refusal in your scroll (an event that doesn't add much to the game right now) the pink sweetling would be able to turn and viceversa. This would allow people who want it pink to have it pink, black to have it black.

+

3 ) OPTIONAL: raise the CB limit to 4

 

BSA restrictions:

a ) If you still want to keep ALT black sweetling as a rare thing you could even think about a failing rate of this BSA with a very long cooldown time just like Summon is.

 

Lineage issues:

I know people are worried that their lineages could get ruined by the sudden decision of turning the ancestors to a different color, but honestly this is already happening with Aegis and i personally don't see so many troubles about it. If we can deal with Aegis i believe we should do the same with Sweetlings. The only way i see to prevent any of the issues that could emerge is:

a ) making the BSA working only on hatchlings.

 

 

 

I also want to underline an important thing: learn from our previous suggestions and argues, guys. Do you even remember the big chaos surrounding Prize dragons? There has always been the chance to get them 2nd gen, it was never denied. However a large fan base population felt the need to have them CB and that's indeed the only way to have true freedom in lineage projiect, collecting objectives, equal trades etc... We evetually managed to have monthly raffles, which to me are a big and marvelous improvement to the game, but we achieved that only after years and years debating.

 

That's why, in my opinion, simply allowing true breeding or going back to what it was are ineffective solutions: Sweetlings would go back to what prize dragons were. I could be able to get a 2nd gen black sweetling (which would be super cool) and i would also know at the same time that i am not able to do checkers and plans with it properly because i don't have a CB black sweetling.

 

I suggest for us to find a solution that helps fix ALL the major issues.  I would also like if people stop saying that "there was nothing wrong before", "there  was no problem at all before this event" because this is so obviously untrue. If it was true there wouldn't be so big discussion around this time of the year, when unbalance shows more bright than ever.

 

[osean]

I just wish it would either go back to the way it was before or that they would all just breed true so that non alt winners have a chance at the sprite even if it won't ever be CB.

[Kelkelen]

Lots of good ideas and respectful discussion in here.  From my point of view, I feel like there are three key questions to be asked:

1) Was there a real problem in the first place?  (aka, were things 'fair' according to the goals of the game and its creator, or not?  was there widespread unhappiness?  who was complaining and why?)
2) If so, what was it?  (majority of userbase complaining/unhappy?  broken mechanic for collectibility or breeding?  something not in keeping with actual game purposes?)

3) What solution would best fix the specific problem? 
 

We have all sorts of potential solutions floating around, and like I said, I think loads of them are good ideas.  But if TJ believes the problem is something different than we do, our solutions aren't going to be of much use in the long run. 

For instance: 

Person 1 thinks the problem is that a significantly large number of players wanted to have Black Alt Sweetlings on their scrolls somehow -- either CB or bred, doesn't matter.
Person 2 imagines the problem is that a significantly large number of players desperately wants CB Alt Sweetlings, and nothing else will satisfy the player base. 
Person 3 imagines that there is no problem at all, that barely anyone is unhappy, and there is no need to tamper with things.
TJ might believe the problem is that Black Alt Sweetlings are meant to be MORE exclusive than they are, and may want to make it harder for anyone to have them.  (IDK why, though -- if they're the dragons people have had and bred and built lineages with for 8 years, why take them away or make them harder to obtain?  Why "ought" they to be less common?)

It seems like we need to figure out which problem we're trying to solve, if any.

[Dragon_Arbock]

  Quote

I would also like if people stop saying that "there was nothing wrong before", "there  was no problem at all before this event" because this is so obviously untrue.

2 hours ago, LadyLyzar said:

'

For many people - those who own alts and those who do not - this is true.

I personally have always thought it was a problem. I tried to speak out against years ago and I got attacked for it. Others most likely did as well but didn't think it was worth the harassment.

 

I personally don't want it to go back to the way it was. I want to make progress on spreading them to more people.