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Suggestions for Sweets

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8 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

I think the only problem with that, is, the number of prize owners is growing, and eventually they will balance out. The number of Alts owners, however, is only shrinking. I'd be worried about them being swamped by requests to breed alt Sweets, that they can only even breed once per year to begin with.

 

I really doubt that. Most people don't even know who has black sweetlings and who doesn't now, and once everyone had bred black sweetlings on their scrolls, it would be next to impossible to tell who had CB ones (a scroll stalker would have to click through the lineage of all their sweetlings to find them!)

 

The only way they'd be swamped with trade requests is if they were actively trying to trade them on the forum, in which case they'd want to be swamped with trade requests.

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27 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

I really doubt that. Most people don't even know who has black sweetlings and who doesn't now, and once everyone had bred black sweetlings on their scrolls, it would be next to impossible to tell who had CB ones (a scroll stalker would have to click through the lineage of all their sweetlings to find them!)

 

The only way they'd be swamped with trade requests is if they were actively trying to trade them on the forum, in which case they'd want to be swamped with trade requests.

 

 

Lol I can attest to people not knowing! I had someone a page or so ago think that /I/ may be an alt owner based on my opinions stated. If people KNEW who the alt owners were? Then the person would have automatically known that I'm a pink scroll.

 

If an alt owner didnt want to be stalked all they have to do is turn their name off on their scroll (if it isnt already) and just do trades with their friends on here without posting in trade chat. Or just turn their name off and auto abandon everything to the ap if all they wanted to do was breed alt sweets to help spread them around. As each year goes on there will be more and more alts on more and more scrolls :3

 

 

Though what I think the person you quoted is admant about is having CB alt sweets so that there are more options of 2G alt sweets so that you can have bigger lineages. They are right that every month MORE CB prizes are added to the pool (meaning there are MORE prize lines added and MORE lineage potential added) while with alt sweets the CB number has always been finite, and with owners of alts moving on with their lives (ergo quitting DC) or just retiring their alts from breeding (I know of at least one who has done so) that number will be ever shrinking unless new CB alt sweets are produced in some manner. Therefore people who want 2G alts specifically would be forced to asked the same few active alt owners which can (even if each person is being polite with their request) leave an alt owner feeling swamped. 

 

On the other hand people like me who dont care about lineage aside from "is it inbred?' Would be happy to get an alt that is like 5th or 6th gen even if I have to wait a few years to get them XD

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The basic problem with allowing bred-only breeding-true alt sweets is that it leads to the same situation as hollies: eggs for them only appear once-a-year and anyone who does want to breed for others will end up with a massive backlog due to the inherent delay in breeding. There may be more bred ones over time, but people will still strive for 2nd-gen sweets for their specific lineage ideas and/or the closest they can get to CB like they do with prizes now and they did with hollies.

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So Alt sweetling owners can breed alt sweetlings and they will stay alt on my scroll ? That sounds great

 

PS: not difficult to find alt owners, just look at tinsel lineages with alts...

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Renmiri said:

So Alt sweetling owners can breed alt sweetlings and they will stay alt on my scroll ? That sounds great

 

PS: not difficult to find alt owners, just look at tinsel lineages with alts...

 

 

 

Not all Alt owners own have their names shown on their scroll so even if you go through an alt Sweet X tinsel lineage you still wont know who owns every single alt. ALSO ...you cannot be sure all alt owners have alts that are part of these TinselXAlt lineages.

 

If a Tinsel Xalt sweet lineage is 5 gens long you can be sure that 2-3 of the people in it (if each stage was on a different scroll...meaning 5 people have taken part in it) probably have their scroll name off. This means the other 2-3 people would be the ones to be swamped by people looking for alts/2g alts. 

 

Also...cant quite tell if the first part of your post means you are misunderstanding ...or talking about your opinion on the matter at hand. But felt to ease MY mind (and prevent me worrying myself awake tonight) I would inform you that they cant stay alt on pink scrolls YET (and maybe never.) This is all hypothetical and people discussing the best way for wider sweet alt distribution to happen down the road. 

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The issue with alt owners being the only ones able to have CB alts but also being able to breed 2g alts is that that's just one more way that the Haves and the Have-Nots could and would be permanently separated. If they're the only ones who can give you a rare sprite/morph then you're just handing a small portion of the player-base a huge amount of power over the others that have NO chance of ever getting purely because they don't have the (metaphorical) "birthright" from being in the right place at the right time.

Edited by blockEdragon

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Well I wouldn't go that far. It sounds to me like most of them wouldn't be asking a lot for offspring- it is simply the fact that the few CB alts we have would never be able to provide for the needs of all the users who would want 2nd gens.

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5 hours ago, tjekan said:

 

I vote for this. I'm fine with a subset of lucky users being the only ones to have CB black sweetlings, just like only some lucky users have CB prizes, but it's nice for everyone to at least be able to get their own bred ones.

 

Not really. I agree with Dragon_Arbock here: first, number of CB prize owners is growing every month, and second, prize dragons (even being picky) are breeding all year round, not once a year. CB Sweetling alts will be much more rare (and consider players who left the game, and those who don't want to breed their Alt for some reasons). And of course people will make the list of owners, just like holly owners and original prize owners.

 

So yeah. Not a solution. Just a creation of another artificial rare dragon for trading.

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On 2/10/2018 at 10:41 AM, Cassie_Fenix said:

Well, let me ask you this. If you had a dragon lost because of some Glitch (be it the 2008 glitch that everyone's making a stink about or otherwise) and you got gifted a special alt version of the said dragon, how would you feel if sometime later, someone said, "nah. We all want that, so make it a CB."? As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind if people got the chance for the Alts, but I feel that they should get the chance for them as bred versions and not CB versions so that those who were affected by the glitch and were given them in the first place would not feel like they were getting the shaft because we don't have four CB's, or if you prefer, releasing one of our CB Alts just to get a CB Pink.

I know this might sound a bit glib because of the fact that I don't have them, so "of course you would say that, you don't have them!" but personally, I would be a little bit two sided, one part of me would definitely be like, no! my pretties *goes all golum* but on the other hand, I love trading everything that I do have, and it would make me a little bit sad at such a small pool of CB's. And I am one of those people who will happily just breed everything I have for free from my cb metals through to my 2nd gens from alts. But not only that, but a little while ago, their was a glitch where I actually lost a third gen prize egg back before they were so wide spread, nowadays something like this wouldn't even be a problem, just breed another one whenever. I couldn't prove it and I didn't keep the code. It was for a trade and I had already let the other person know and everything, but I don't see myself being made reparations for it, and all honesty I don't really expect them, especially not a special alternative coloured alt. And as has been mentioned by other users, there have been glitches since where people have lost eggs and they've simply been replaced with the same coloured breed. Also, there are a lot users who have alts who want to share them with others and I think you'll find that a lot of the user base wants to share what they have so this is not a strong argument against having CB's. 

 

I believe that not allowing a large part of the userbase to collect CB's because of a glitch that happens seemingly fairly frequently from what I can tell from the conversation that has stemmed from this, but only one part of the userbase got an apology gift from seems biased to me. I'm sure at one point or another a glitch issue has harmed more than a fair share of DC users, so I don't see why only a part of that base gets a gift and not the rest.

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I do not know if my following suggestion is already made, but I give it a try: I see the problem with only Alts simply breeding other Alts, too - maybe the 2nd gens really become to exclusive then. What if, and excuse when I made a mind mistake, CB Sweetlings can only breed the opposite colour? If (CB) pink Sweetlings can only breed Alts, then the breeding pool is big enough to no affect on the breeding market, everybody has the chance to get 2nd gens easily. That would garantee that CB Alts stay a little bit "special" for those who like that idea.  Everybody could have both colours. Still have no idea how PB alt Sweet lineages could work then (but Alt-owers are in the minority anyway and we have to accept that changes must be made to end the drama around Sweets), maybe we all have to live with alternating lineages (would that really be a problem in case of such a big gain?). But at least everybody can have Alts and regular Sweetlings without giving out more CB Alts. Oh, that would mean that we can only catch pink Sweetlings in the Cave, of course.

 

@cerimonster: I am confused, what is the the main problem with the Alts? That they can not be obtained by players with regular Sweets or that CB Alts can not be obtained? Is just because, my post can be ignored in the second case, because it would not be a solution. Sorry, maybe I misunderstand some facts and arguments in this thread because of my bad englisch.

Edited by drabrugon

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I would like to agree with Fuzz on this one. I love alternating lines, but I also love my PB non-alternating lines just as much. This solution would cause only utter madness.

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@Fuzzbucket: I know, that is a big problem for those interested in lineages, but maybe we all have to start new and work with new breeding conditions? I do not want to hurt peoples feelings, I love lineages, too, but I am interested in ending this drama. Makes me have maybe stupid ideas and taking compromise into account.

 

@cerimonster: Ok, i understand.

 

 

Edited by drabrugon

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This would negatively affect the HUGE majority of players, who have pinks. I am not prepared to have my LARGE number of all pink lineages ruined just because some people (by no means all) have such a burning desire to see a particular sprite on their scroll. That is not an acceptable trade-off. And - end this drama ? Trust me, there would be way way more than we have yet seen.

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4 minutes ago, drabrugon said:

@Fuzzbucket: I know, that is a big problem for those interested in lineages, but maybe we all have to start new and work with new breeding conditions? I do not want to hurt peoples feelings, I love lineages, too, but I am interested in ending this drama. Makes me have maybe stupid ideas and taking compromise into account.

 

@cerimonster: Ok, i understand.

 

 

But a lot of us ARE happy to compromise. as has been stated, this is only a huge issue now is because alt owners get to have both, but plain pink owners don't. A lot of users are happy to go back to what it was before ( although a lot of us would still be devastated that we don't get a chance at the blacks) but again for the most part we wouldn't feel like that we are missing out, because we would all be on "equal" ground.

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Compromise - sure. Ruining lineages that have been years in the making (given that they involve holidays) and which we had hoped to continue is not a compromise, it's a kick in the ****

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On 2/9/2018 at 8:41 PM, Cassie_Fenix said:

Well, let me ask you this. If you had a dragon lost because of some Glitch (be it the 2008 glitch that everyone's making a stink about or otherwise) and you got gifted a special alt version of the said dragon, how would you feel if sometime later, someone said, "nah. We all want that, so make it a CB."? As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind if people got the chance for the Alts, but I feel that they should get the chance for them as bred versions and not CB versions so that those who were affected by the glitch and were given them in the first place would not feel like they were getting the shaft because we don't have four CB's, or if you prefer, releasing one of our CB Alts just to get a CB Pink.

 

Ok, have put myself in the situation fully. So now I have just Alt Sweets. My alt is not fair with the rest of the playerbase AND with me, and I can strongly feel that. In what way did I earn(?!) for it? I happened to be hunting on the right/wrong moment. Lost my eggs, bummed. Wanted them back, and wow, got a replacement, cool... but the "replacement" happened to turn into something exclusive, not an equivalent of the eggs I lost, where are my lost pinks? The Blacks are cool, sure. But... WHY ON EARTH?! I just happened to be affected by a glitch, why didn't I get regular Swetlings as a replacement but instead got sth people won't be ever able to get in any form? And why I couldn't ever get the pinks I lost, neither CB nor bred? 
 Now its 2018 and suddenly I'm getting a chance to get pinks, even a CB, sure I'm releasing one of my blacks to have a lineage builder of each! But WHY ON EARTH people can't get both variants as well? Why I'm getting double prized not only with an exclusive variant but now also with the variant I lost? and both CB if I choose to? I didn't do anything to earn this, I don't feel right, I know it's neither my fault nor achievement for which I got treated so special like this but I'm being made feeling so by how unfair this is with other people, no matter if they admit this or not, I KNOW it's unfair... and I can't even do anything like gifting or trading them offspring of my alt, becaue they still will have nothing but pinks... So I suggest to even it out, so it's fai. If I had to sacrifice my alts to change into pinks, pity, but at least it's fair, hurtful and even infuriating, but fair in the overall. But I also realize I may have a trading power in the future if things stay as they are atm, like CB Holy owners had before 2017. I'm definitely tempted to use it. After all I'm not cheating since it's the game&TJ that allowed me this. So I'm a bit torn. But in the end I decide letting everyone have either 1 variant or both and under the same conditions is the only right thing. I didn't earn an exclusive sprite & my future trading power, or to be able to get both variants, even as CBs, I just happened to be random-picked becasue I caught my first Sweetling eggs on the (apparently)right time. And I'm getting double-prized for that, WTH. This change makes me feel horrible, I plead TJ to free me of these feelings he caused. Nothing else I can do. 

~the end of putting myself into the situation~

 

And how did anyone deserve their treatment? Thing is, none of the sides did deserve their uneven treatment. This is why there's such a huge problem. And Alt Sweetlings were exclusive long enough. And not that they ever should be. Glitches should be recompensated with eggs that the player lost(can't be the same? then new ones of the same breed&variant), not with an exclusive variant - this is why TJ ever considered rendering those no longer doable, he knows he made a mistake and wanted to do something in atempts to "fix it". Just the way he handles it is another mistake, sadly. 

 

I'm indifferent whether I can get both variants or 1 in the end, as long as it's true for everyone else in the game regardless which variant they were starting with. No fovouring of anyone. Equal grounds. That's all. 

Closest to this would be letting everyone have both, because of how blacks were distributed in hte first place. Still, reversal to the previous ways would be an improvement to the current change...

Edited by LadyLyzar
Inflammatory comment removed

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Precisely this. It sucked that people could only have one sprite, but it was an acceptable status quo. Making it so that people can only have one while another group can have both is... deeply unfair.
 

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@MhKhu said it more eloquently than I did, so thank you. 

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@MhKhu: I second everything you have said in your post.

 

At the moment I only feel frustrated and sad for being an Alt-owner. I love lineages with Alts and I love the Alts on my scroll. To me the gift that was made 8 years ago lost its sweet taste and it ist getting worse evey year. It is harder to build lineages and find fitting mates for my dragons. All in all the Alts are some kind of curse right now.

 

I hope that TJ finds a better mechanic for them, the latest is horrible for Alt-owners. I do not want both variants while others can only have one. It would be easier to accept that there are only regular pink Sweetlings in the future. It would hurt but it would be fair.

Edited by drabrugon

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On 10.02.2018 at 4:41 AM, Cassie_Fenix said:

Well, let me ask you this. If you had a dragon lost because of some Glitch (be it the 2008 glitch that everyone's making a stink about or otherwise) and you got gifted a special alt version of the said dragon, how would you feel if sometime later, someone said, "nah. We all want that, so make it a CB."? As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind if people got the chance for the Alts, but I feel that they should get the chance for them as bred versions and not CB versions so that those who were affected by the glitch and were given them in the first place would not feel like they were getting the shaft because we don't have four CB's, or if you prefer, releasing one of our CB Alts just to get a CB Pink.

 

@MhKhu is totally right. We all experienced all sorts of glitches here - outside of the Valentine events, and never were treated by any special gifts for bearing with those glitches. Which is totally okay. Or if we did - this glitches-presents shouldn't be something super rare and be looked upon as "nope nope only miiine don't give others my CB everrrrr".

 

People who caught a CB gold worked for it. People who failed numerous attemps at creating the Neglected dragon and finally hatched one worked for it. Special alt just for being there... well. Good, I agree (I imagine how hard it was to lost your holiday eggs even temporarily), but not enough to refuse other people the right to have it.

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4 hours ago, laertid said:

 

Not really. I agree with Dragon_Arbock here: first, number of CB prize owners is growing every month, and second, prize dragons (even being picky) are breeding all year round, not once a year. CB Sweetling alts will be much more rare (and consider players who left the game, and those who don't want to breed their Alt for some reasons). And of course people will make the list of owners, just like holly owners and original prize owners.

 

So yeah. Not a solution. Just a creation of another artificial rare dragon for trading.

Certainly this is a valid concern with this thing, and new CBs might help prevent it.

 

This runs into two major points.

 

ONE are the current CB alt owners OK with the idea of allowing more CBs?

TWO, and perhaps even more important, is Kila ( spriter for the sweetlings) OK witht he idea of allowing more CBs?

 

If the answers to both are yes, then by all means, if not... well... we may have to think of something else.

 

We can't totally disregard the wishes of either  of those two groups , remember.

Would I love to have CB alts on my scroll? You bet I would! BUT IF kila says no I can live with bred ones. We don't REALLY want to ruin things for people that already have them and have been breeding them by messing up lineages any more than necessary or such either. It just needs to be handled carefully is all. AND I would add that IF Kila were to say "NO, absolutely NO new scrolls can have alts", well... then I would at LEAST like things put back as they were... one color of sweetling per scroll. Was I dissapointed I could never have an alt? Yep, but I had come to accept it as how it was... 

Edited by JavaTigress

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I own alts as I stated before, and I thought this change was... unexpected to say the least.  I had no idea it was coming myself.

 

I thought the gift of alts was unusual, but kind, considering the stress during the Sweetling release and how difficult it was to get those eggs the first time.  The lag was terrible.  Even people who don't have issues catching were struggling and DC's userbase was smaller back then.  I don't remember exactly what was going on - server issues maybe - but it seemed worse than the usual holiday lag by far.  I wasn't a mod then so I was in the dark as much as everyone else.

 

I can also see both sides to this.  On the one hand, I think keeping the original spirit of the gift makes sense, but I also never expected the alts to breed true on my scroll.  I was expecting just the original CBs to be black and that be the end of it - so it was a surprise the first time I bred them.  It can make finding AP lineages a little tricky because if I find a pretty pink baby, I automatically "ruin" it because my hatchling alts immediately.  That being said, my alts never could leave my scroll as alts unless they went to someone else who already had alts.  So I wasn't exactly "making them widespread".

 

I also understand those who would like an alt sweetling, since alt owners are now able to get both.  The change doesn't make a ton of sense to me and I do understand why people see it as unfair.

 

If TJ doesn't want alts to spread, put me solidly in the camp of reverting things back to how they were.  In the immortal words of Cogsworth, "If it's not baroque, don't fix it."

Edited by LadyLyzar

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If i can give my 2 cents about ALT sweetlings as well i would like to say how i would have personally handled it:

If I would have an issue like that, aka a large number of users in my game that complains about not being able to collect a specific sprite, i would have found a solution to give a chance to everyone, which to me it is more fair. 

 

These are not separate options, but should all be implemented overtime:

1 ) People who had troubles in 2010 would have been rewarded with a special trophy icon that nobody else could have, like a different color sprite of this year valentine's event or something like a nice frame around their scroll, a free ticket for the next draw of prize dragons, pick one. -> this would serve to "alleviate the drama" concerning loosing their exclusivity, because they still would get something precious that could be recognized after all the changes BUT wouldn't create possibile unfair scenarios.

+

2 ) Give Sweetling a BSA just like Aegis Dragon. If it happens to be a Refusal in your scroll (an event that doesn't add much to the game right now) the pink sweetling would be able to turn and viceversa. This would allow people who want it pink to have it pink, black to have it black.

+

3 ) OPTIONAL: raise the CB limit to 4

 

BSA restrictions:

a ) If you still want to keep ALT black sweetling as a rare thing you could even think about a failing rate of this BSA with a very long cooldown time just like Summon is.

 

Lineage issues:

I know people are worried that their lineages could get ruined by the sudden decision of turning the ancestors to a different color, but honestly this is already happening with Aegis and i personally don't see so many troubles about it. If we can deal with Aegis i believe we should do the same with Sweetlings. The only way i see to prevent any of the issues that could emerge is:

a ) making the BSA working only on hatchlings.

 

 

 

I also want to underline an important thing: learn from our previous suggestions and argues, guys. Do you even remember the big chaos surrounding Prize dragons? There has always been the chance to get them 2nd gen, it was never denied. However a large fan base population felt the need to have them CB and that's indeed the only way to have true freedom in lineage projiect, collecting objectives, equal trades etc... We evetually managed to have monthly raffles, which to me are a big and marvelous improvement to the game, but we achieved that only after years and years debating.

 

That's why, in my opinion, simply allowing true breeding or going back to what it was are ineffective solutions: Sweetlings would go back to what prize dragons were. I could be able to get a 2nd gen black sweetling (which would be super cool) and i would also know at the same time that i am not able to do checkers and plans with it properly because i don't have a CB black sweetling.

 

I suggest for us to find a solution that helps fix ALL the major issues.  I would also like if people stop saying that "there was nothing wrong before", "there  was no problem at all before this event" because this is so obviously untrue. If it was true there wouldn't be so big discussion around this time of the year, when unbalance shows more bright than ever.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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