Suggestions for Sweets

[LadyLyzar]

This topic is temporarily closed while I go through it.  It will be reopened shortly.

 

Okay... that took a lot longer than I would have liked.  Debating something is fine, but insulting other individuals and entire groups of users is completely unacceptable.

 

I just had to clean a lot of posts out of this topic where the drama began, and posts where the drama was referenced.  If your post is missing, this is why.  If you feel I missed something, please PM me.

 

Please keep things civil from now on.  If this topic erupts into a flame-fest again, it will be closed.

Edited February 10, 2018 by LadyLyzar

[Starscream]

Thank you Lady Lyzar and that is an ideal post to have pinned too, seeing it covers everything that needs to be covered.

[JavaTigress]

6 minutes ago, Starscream said:

Thank you Lady Lyzar and that is an ideal post to have pinned too, seeing it covers everything that needs to be covered.

YES.Thank you.

[LibbyLishly]

Well, since my comment has been completely wiped, I will merely repost my ranked list of my preferences on the various proposed solutions. Anyone curious as to the full text of my comment is welcome to PM me - I saved it for such an eventuality.

• Best option: Everyone gets both! Sweetlings and Dark Sweetlings are treated similarly to Luminas and Dark Luminas, everyone gets 2 CB of each, they can breed each other's eggs based on time of breeding or hatching. (Almost) everyone is happy!
• Next best option: Sweetlings can be flipped via BSA, a one-time use for Sweetlings who don't have offspring. Most people are happy!
• "Meh" option: "Put that Alt back where it came from or so help me" - revert things back to how they were. Alt owners can't have Pinks. Pink owners can't have Alts. The ability to have alternating lines is restored. Status quo is restored. Maybe allow random new user scrolls to alt in the same mechanic as Snow Angels. Everyone is mildly disgruntled. 
• Next-to-worst: All Alts and Pinks breed true. No more CBs. No more alternating lineages. 2G Alts become as rare and difficult to obtain as 2G Hollies were before the rerelease. We are relieved that at least we'll be able to obtain all the sprites and continue petitioning for new CBs to enter the breeding pool.
• Almost-worst: Keep the situation as it is now, with a small handful of users having access to both Pinks and Alts and excluding everyone else. This was a terrible plan and this is why there's so much drama. 
• Absolute worst please do not do this option: Eliminate Alts completely. All Sweetlings are Pink. Let's not do that. I would be furious.
   

[Brekke]

5 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Well, since my comment has been completely wiped, I will merely repost my ranked list of my preferences on the various proposed solutions. Anyone curious as to the full text of my comment is welcome to PM me - I saved it for such an eventuality.

• Best option: Everyone gets both! Sweetlings and Dark Sweetlings are treated similarly to Luminas and Dark Luminas, everyone gets 2 CB of each, they can breed each other's eggs based on time of breeding or hatching. (Almost) everyone is happy!
• Next best option: Sweetlings can be flipped via BSA, a one-time use for Sweetlings who don't have offspring. Most people are happy!
• "Meh" option: "Put that Alt back where it came from or so help me" - revert things back to how they were. Alt owners can't have Pinks. Pink owners can't have Alts. The ability to have alternating lines is restored. Status quo is restored. Maybe allow random new user scrolls to alt in the same mechanic as Snow Angels. Everyone is mildly disgruntled. 
• Next-to-worst: All Alts and Pinks breed true. No more CBs. No more alternating lineages. 2G Alts become as rare and difficult to obtain as 2G Hollies were before the rerelease. We are relieved that at least we'll be able to obtain all the sprites and continue petitioning for new CBs to enter the breeding pool.
• Almost-worst: Keep the situation as it is now, with a small handful of users having access to both Pinks and Alts and excluding everyone else. This was a terrible plan and this is why there's so much drama. 
• Absolute worst please do not do this option: Eliminate Alts completely. All Sweetlings are Pink. Let's not do that. I would be furious.
   

Great list and ranking-- +100

[SerasVahe]

5 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Best option: Everyone gets both! Sweetlings and Dark Sweetlings are treated similarly to Luminas and Dark Luminas, everyone gets 2 CB of each, they can breed each other's eggs based on time of breeding or hatching.

 

I second this, it would certainly not leave anyone out and the cool alternating lineages can continue

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Lucere 's summary post doesn't include my own favorite solution, which is that Sweetlings breed true, but a Sweetling can influence an egg to follow its own color. Aka an Alt Sweet owner could snag a Sweet x Moonstone checker, and either leave it Pink OR willingly influence it Alt. 

 

Again, though, I think further discussion is worth waiting a month to indulge in, as then we'll have Kila's response (or lack of). Although I'm curious, did she never weigh in on this in recent years? It's been a good long time, surely she's been asked before? O___o

[LibbyLishly]

1 minute ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Lucere 's summary post doesn't include my own favorite solution, which is that Sweetlings breed true, but a Sweetling can influence an egg to follow its own color. Aka an Alt Sweet owner could snag a Sweet x Moonstone checker, and either leave it Pink OR willingly influence it Alt. 

 

I would personally rank this as slightly higher than my "next-best option".

[Starscream]

I am not even sure she'll respond. Her input will be invaluable. I get the feeling she just got on with life, professional artist now I believe.

 

[Lucere]

@angelicdragonpuppy I think I did make an update to the post that got buried somewhere that does include that suggestion. Maybe a mod can sticky that post instead?

 

Edit: I think it was this post here: 

@LadyLyzar (or any mod) maybe sticky the above one instead?  Thanks!

Edited February 10, 2018 by Lucere

[Sazandora]

Oh goodie, maybe now we can hopefully get back to civil discussion instead of making up conspiracy theories and insulting people. Here's my opinion on the options we've come up with so far:

 

19 hours ago, Lucere said:

 Revert to the way things were before this Valentine's Event. Basically, alt-coded sweetlings will always get alts, everyone else will always get pinks, i.e. one color per scroll.

 

Neutral on this one, maybe not the best option here but it's still reasonable.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

Everyone gets access to both alt-sweetlings and pink sweetlings. This is further broken down into the following options:

1. Everyone gets access to 2 CB alts and 2 CB pinks. Both of these variations will breed "true", i.e. pinks will only breed pinks and alts will only breed alts. Whether or not a CB sweetling will become an alt may or may not be determined by the following:
   1. A CB sweetling hatched between a certain time frame will become an alt. The same mechanic will apply to bred sweetlings (i.e. similar to the Sunrise/Sunset dragons. This will not retroactively apply to alt-sweetlings and regular pink sweetlings hatched before this event (or whenever the change is made).

 

I'll have to say no to obtaining 4 CBs, that'd just be crazy. And overall I'm against giving out more CB alt Sweetlings, seeing how the originals were an apology gift for people afflicted by a glitch.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

Alt-sweetlings will always breed true, no matter whose scroll they end up on. No new CB alt-sweetlings. 

 

This I support.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, the mechanic to determine whether or not a sweetling will hatch into an alt will be time-based on when it was bred/hatched. As with option 2.1.1, this will not apply to alt-sweetlings and regular pink sweetlings that have hatched before this event (or whenever the change is made).

 

And this I support even more than the last option, specifically when the time of hatching determines the newborn Sweetling's color.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

Alt-sweetlings will be bred-only, and whether or not a bred sweetling will become an alt will be decided at random

 

NO. I can tolerate the random alt-chance of Blacks, Undines and Vines (playing alt lottery with them is a favorite pastime of mine), but since Sweetlings can only be obtained once a year, I am very much against this.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

BSA option to turn a pink sweetling into an alt. One suggestion for the BSA was something about if you had a recent refusal in the breeding of any two dragons on your scroll, you could activate the BSA for a 'heartbroken' sweetling, aka the alt-sweetling.

1. There's also an additional suggestion that this BSA be made hatchling-only so as not to ruin any lineages.

 

I don't really like the adult BSA depending on refusals since they're so random. A hatchling-only BSA is better in my opinion.

 

20 hours ago, Lucere said:

The nuclear option. All alt-sweetlings will now be pinks.

 

Ha. My inner troublemaker absolutely loves this option. Considering all the drama alt Sweets have caused, this is my third-most favored option out of all the others.

[Starscream]

2 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Lucere 's summary post doesn't include my own favorite solution, which is that Sweetlings breed true, but a Sweetling can influence an egg to follow its own color. Aka an Alt Sweet owner could snag a Sweet x Moonstone checker, and either leave it Pink OR willingly influence it Alt. 

 

That would solve the issue of murdering alternating lines. I'd support that if it was a general release through breeding.

[OMGitsKairi]

My favourite option so far is what @LibbyLishly has labelled as the "best option." But only really the time-based breeding part. 

I'm not quite on board with new CBs becoming available.

[LadyLyzar]

@Lucere I will fix it for you! 

[JavaTigress]

12 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Lucere 's summary post doesn't include my own favorite solution, which is that Sweetlings breed true, but a Sweetling can influence an egg to follow its own color. Aka an Alt Sweet owner could snag a Sweet x Moonstone checker, and either leave it Pink OR willingly influence it Alt. 

 

ACTUALLY I find this to be an incredibly CUTE suggestion.

 

As Kairi said... I am unsure about allowing new CB alts. It could very well be that while Kila would be OK with allowing BRED  alts be available, she would prefer it if the CBs remained for those that originally got them. WITHOUT hearing from her, tho it becomes impossible to know.

 

I DO wish TJ would weigh in on this subject.

Edited February 10, 2018 by JavaTigress

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Thanks Lyzar and Lucere

 

With CBs... I'm not sure what the best route would be. Personally I still really really really hope Valentine / Christmas limits are lifted or at the very least raised. If that happens, CB owners could grab and hatch Sweet eggs and swap the properly colored hatchies. Problem: Alts would still be rarer. Is that a problem? Debatable, I suppose. Perhaps they could just be normal cave drops in whatever color, with slightly different descriptions. This would keep alt owners from being bombarded with people begging them to hatch out sweets for them.

[JavaTigress]

10 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Thanks Lyzar and Lucere

 

With CBs... I'm not sure what the best route would be. Personally I still really really really hope Valentine / Christmas limits are lifted or at the very least raised. If that happens, CB owners could grab and hatch Sweet eggs and swap the properly colored hatchies. Problem: Alts would still be rarer. Is that a problem? Debatable, I suppose. Perhaps they could just be normal cave drops in whatever color, with slightly different descriptions. This would keep alt owners from being bombarded with people begging them to hatch out sweets for them.

 Good point, of course, about folks pestering alt owners for hatching. 

We want to avoid that if possible

[RainDear]

When the event happened it never occurred to me that it was a glitch. I thought my eggs had been taken away because: 1. I was only allowed 2 Valentine's eggs ever and had gotten mine in '09 or 2. I had broken some rule and was being punished for it. It never occurred to me to try to catch again. When I found my eggs had been replaced I can't even express how glad I was. As many have stated the Alt was an unnecessary but welcome touch.

 

Now, I have never been against others getting black Sweetlings. I am not against it now, if TJ and Kila are willing. Whatever mechanic is immaterial to me. And, as I have said before if the only way to end the strife is for all Sweetlings to be pink, I will accept that (though not be happy about it), too. All I really want is not to have to see this come up every Valentine's holiday as it has for the last 8 years.  

[Kigyptnee]

1 hour ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

@Lucere 's summary post doesn't include my own favorite solution, which is that Sweetlings breed true, but a Sweetling can influence an egg to follow its own color. Aka an Alt Sweet owner could snag a Sweet x Moonstone checker, and either leave it Pink OR willingly influence it Alt. 

 

I really like this idea.  

[laertid]

2 hours ago, LibbyLishly said:

 

• Best option: Everyone gets both! Sweetlings and Dark Sweetlings are treated similarly to Luminas and Dark Luminas, everyone gets 2 CB of each, they can breed each other's eggs based on time of breeding or hatching. (Almost) everyone is happy!

 

Best option is best.

As far as the game is about collecting sprites, I'll be all for "more sprites for all, yay!".

Also I don't see the "4 CB is crazy" problem, because I think the "2 CB for Christmas\Valentine" limit will be raised eventually, especially with the new biome - it's just the matter of time. Or the holiday eggs will just sit there and be boooored.

Aaand also I don't understand the apology gift thing. I wasn't there when the whole glitch happened, but I have been on DC for a long time, seen lots of glitches, and there never have been any apologies or gifts. Welp... oopsie, I suppose. Not that I deserved any super special egg, just being there for a site being laggy and all. (Though a Lagmonster egg would be nice! xD). But if I got one, I'd be happy to share it with everyone. CB included. That's it.

 

[Shroomlet]

Thank you, LadyLyzar, for cleaning our mess up.

And a honest, heartfelt apology to everyone I might have hurt with how I phrased my posts. I am not a native English speaker, and what sounds neutral or even friendly in my language can apparently sound very rude in English. Not an excuse, though, so I am really sorry for misspeaking.

 

@Lucere

Thank you for that brilliant summary!

 

From all listed solutions I would prefer anything that

a: allows everyone to have both sprites

b: allows for CBs of both colors for everyone who wants it (so we don't have any color CB's unattainable and slowly die out)

c: allows for alternating pink-black lineages still being possible (very personal preference, I know)

 

So in that vein, I think I, too, am with @angelicdragonpuppy's favorite solution: breed true but influenceable. Might have to add the 4 CB's solution, to preserve all lineages already existing, while not disadvantaging original-release players in having both colors as CBs.

 

Thank you again to everyone involved in working on possible solutions. I appreciate all of you, no matter what solution you favor.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I've pretty much said before, breeding true is a great solution. The ability to influence would be niche use otherwise, but if it affects CBs, then it would be super useful.

I would also prefer a way to get CBs of the alts, because otherwise they will become scarce, and people would actually harass alt players to breed for them if they remain as the only alts capable of breeding 2nd gens.

[olympe]

No, merely breeding true is a very bad solution. Because, with no more CB alts available, alt Sweetlings would be the next very rare thing, after hollies have been re-released and prizes get released in ever greater numbers. Definitely one of the worst "solutions" - if you want to call that a solution. The only saving grace for that option is that, during their season, they'll breed multi-clutches.

[Dragon_Arbock]

2 minutes ago, olympe said:

No, merely breeding true is a very bad solution. Because, with no more CB alts available, alt Sweetlings would be the next very rare thing, after hollies have been re-released and prizes get released in ever greater numbers. Definitely one of the worst "solutions" - if you want to call that a solution. The only saving grace for that option is that, during their season, they'll breed multi-clutches.

 

Well, that's why I said I support it if and only if there's a way to get new CB alts as well.

[Vampyre]

Since I woke up to a warning and a note to "be nice" or whatever I thought I'd start off by apologizing to everyone I may have hurt with my words yesterday. I'm truly sorry.

 

Now to add my 2 cents. I would not be against wider distribution.

 

However. No new CB alts! The CBs were meant to be GIFTS. To negate that by allowing CBs now...would be like someone taking back a gift they gave you years ago. Also allowing more CBs wouldnt be fair to those of us who have Sweetling CB quota in pink as we would have to decide which of our beloved babies got the axe (released) or if we didnt want cb alts at all. 

 

I am also against BSA that allows changing regulars into alts or vice versa. Without restrictions that is open for abuse with restrictions that again prevents people with CB pink quota from participating with CB alts.

 

I also am not a fan of a time based scenario as nott everyone can be online to get eggs at specific times. Meaning by default they could be locked to one sprite or the other.

 

I would prefer if they were like alt blacks/undines/vines...perhaps with a higher ratio to turn alt (due to being a once a year release) but I can see where that would be annoying/upsetting to people

 

Personally the "breed true but can influence eggs to alt or not" would be the best option. Might be a little hinky in the first year or two while pink scrollers tried to grab for alt sweet offspring in ap and trades. But that is about on par with the craziness of a NORMAL release so its doable. All in all I believe this is the best option.

 

I would also like to say a complete "HADES NO" to 4 CBs and/or new CBs. 

 

All of this of course hinges on input by Kila and/or TJ. Perhaps also on input from as many alt owners as possible (let us not forget....the alts are THEIR gift.)