Make CB Golds **slighty** less rare

[The Flash]

Except they were never supposed to be this rare. I'm going to guess you weren't around to see them before the explosion of the trade market.

There's a difference between rare and impossible.

Yeah. Some vets of DC who have been here several years don't even have a single CB Gold yet. They may not even have SEEN one. That kind of rarity is absolutely ridiculous.

[blockEdragon]

Except they were never supposed to be this rare. I'm going to guess you weren't around to see them before the explosion of the trade market.

There's a difference between rare and impossible.

no i joined on Mar 15, 2015

and i agree are they are almost impossible but isn't that a good thing it sets goals and stuff and they are currently the only chance you have at a neglected without doing something that if it was real would count as a horrible crime.....by getting one from someone who did do that horrible thing (well they are only pixels but i like to keep a game as immersive s possible)

[Dragon_Arbock]

no i joined on Mar 15, 2015

and i agree are they are almost impossible but isn't that a good thing it sets goals and stuff and they are currently the only chance you have at a neglected without doing something that if it was real would count as a horrible crime.....by getting one from someone who did do that horrible thing (well they are only pixels but i like to keep a game as immersive s possible)

Honestly, no, impossible is not good.

 

Also, if you want a Neglected, learn to make one- I'm fairly certain I could have one by now if I put the effort it. (I've observed and taken enough notes to know how). But the point is, no, even they are not as impossible to get as CB Golds.

 

Making something so rare that only a slim few can get them and so that the entire trade market is based on them, and that all the 'wealth' goes to a small, small, percentage of people is not how a stable economy works.

[Tehya Faye]

Goals are great and all, but currently it's at that point where catching a CB Gold is an unreasonable goal for the majority of players. That should not be the case.

[Gryphonic]

Not having any knowledge of how the ratios work, I can only give anecdotal evidence.

 

I started playing about year and a half ago. Like more newbies, it took me a while to get a sense for relative rarity and player-ascribed value. But it feels very clear to me that gold scarcity is getting worse - probably due to an increase in both the number of players searching, and the number of other breeds in the cave to wade through. I just know that I used to see golds in the cave now and then. I was only twice fast enough to catch them, but they remained tantalizingly present and I wasn't discouraged.

 

These days I have a much faster computer and a faster internet. I'm far better at filtering through descriptions without actually reading the words. I can afford to refresh several times over rares, even red or brown coppers, to see if I hit the metal jackpot. The last two, possibly three silvers I caught, I had clicked past the biome too fast, back-paged, and still got them... I think that's a pretty good measurement of computer + reflexes speed.

 

I don't see golds. Not saw-it-but-missed-it, which I could accept, but I don't see them at all. I spend most of my free time on the computer, and all of that has DC open to hunt at least every 5 min refresh. It's perfectly reasonable to assume I'd be seeing golds a little more often than when I started, but the opposite is true.

 

I used to see trades between a single gold and a silver + some other rare(s) on EATW and the forum, but those have disappeared (yet 2g prizes, despite more cb prizes existing every year, are going for multiple golds...the likelihood of scripting among a small number of players is a different problem, but is also contributing to gold scarcity.) I'm currently offering two ER silvers and two green coppers, but I don't hold out much hope someone will offer a gold for them, whereas that would once have been a good deal.

 

 

I am very much in favor of the blockers-to-AP suggestion, for general balance. There are many breeds that are considered common, but are still harder to find than they used to be due to the stupid-common dragons blocking the space. Another change I'd go for would be a fourth egg position in each biome, to counterbalance how many new breeds have been added to each.

...Apologies for a much longer post than I thought I'd make.

[anetofstars]

Yeah. Some vets of DC who have been here several years don't even have a single CB Gold yet. They may not even have SEEN one. That kind of rarity is absolutely ridiculous.

This is quite true. I've been on DC since Jan. 2009, and I've ever only seen a handful, and never caught one that I can remember. I know many dragontenders in the same fashion.

 

All this goes for the silvers and coppers as well.

 

 

[AnanoKimi]

no i joined on Mar 15, 2015

and i agree are they are almost impossible but isn't that a good thing it sets goals and stuff and they are currently the only chance you have at a neglected without doing something that if it was real would count as a horrible crime.....by getting one from someone who did do that horrible thing (well they are only pixels but i like to keep a game as immersive s possible)

You are making the common mistake of not being able to tell between a difficult goal to obtain such as maybe collecting 300 reds and having a goal that cannot be reached regardless of time, effort, or circumstance such as possibly prizes or CB old Holidays.

 

A difficult goal, though difficult, can be obtained through enough effort and dedication. Sometimes it requires learning something new, doing something different, or knowing the right people and doing the right job.

 

An impossible goal, as the term impossible would imply, means that you could die in 50 years and still be no closer to getting what you aimed for from where you started.

 

Currently only a very select few are able to obtain golds and to some degree most rares. This coupled with how ever the rarity of these rare dragons is determined, means that currently unless you cheat, have mad reflexes, or pay for the highest grade internet with a competent modem, you could play until DC shuts down and have no chance at getting a gold on your own. Trading is a maaaaaaaybe because most people are after the most scarce dragon breed besides golds, prizes. Specifically low gen prizes. So unless you have a CB prize or anything probably below Gen 5 Prize to breed and trade you are pretty much never gonna own one unless someone decides to be truly benevolent (which there are many amazing players that are for that matter).

 

So no. The current rarity state of Golds is not one that motivates users to a goal that can be reached with enough time spent into the game. Currently the rarity of Golds is at a point where users are frustrated. The further issue is that this also means that users will need to find a scapegoat, someone to blame for this issue. Generally the finger is first poined at Prizes an Prize owner, making the untrue argument that we are basically taking all the golds in exchange for what little 2nd gen babies we can produce. Next is the overall concept of the raffle and introduction of prizes, again for the reason stated previously. Finally the blame falls on TJ for goodness knows what reasons honestly.

 

So there you go. Hopefully you understand the circumstance just a little better.

[catyuy]

I think we should ease up a little on the CB rarity. I havent come across a CB Gold in a few years. All of mine were either really lucky grabs in the AP or bred by me.

[Syphoneira]

And one other issue I'd like to add if I may, is that Golds (among other dragons also virtually impossible for many to obtain due to 'trade fodder' issues) are collectable dragons required to *begin* on other goals, such as creating/continuing lines and lineages, not merely a goal in themselves, so that this absurd degree of difficulty in obtaining dragons they need shuts people out of multiple areas.

 

New goals can consist of things like having new dragons Released on a regular basis, successfully breeding lineages/lines, gifting and trading - but if you can't get dragons you need for various purposes, this is no fun at all.

 

I'm here running fansites with no growing dragons myself right now because I can't face boring Cave hunting or discouraging breeding with current Refusal rates, and I have had only one person PM me today, where up until this past week or so, I still often used to have periods where I could barely keep up with PMs from multiple people, more of whom are losing more interest and spending less time here.

 

A scarcity situation by its nature shuts most people out and why should they participate when there's little in it for them? Although one I've known for years is a VERY fast catcher with a great work computer and can catch Golds no problem - when the Cave moves enough - but has been finding the site boring nonetheless, with other more recent friends finding similar issues without perhaps even knowing what the Cave could potentially be like, with some fixes (such as the biome-AP shuffle-kick thing) making the game both more inclusive and more fun for virtually everyone.

 

If we get a New Release this weekend, at least some will show for that, but unless the Cave is made sufficiently interesting and potentially rewarding for the average player to regularly bother with in what's supposed to be their fun time, and breeding no longer necessarily a dead-end experience for those disheartened by too many Refusals on top of many other less final delays, I really fear for the site.

[cyradis4]

Manually changing the rarity of golds will:

 

1. NOT let more people get them. They are still absurdly rare, and when there are actual COMMONS that people can't find, then that means the blocker situation is so totally out of hand that the extra Golds wouldn't be seen. So, same situation that we have now. Yes, there will be more in circulation, but there will be few enough of them that they'll end up back into the hands of the same ol players.

 

2. Cause people to complain in this thread about the change not doing any good, because to make Golds spread out in the population more via this suggestion, you'd have to reduce them to Trio rarity.... Which would reduce them from a Rare to something far more common.

 

 

The best way to get Golds more common is to fix the ratio problem, where even many not-blockers aren't being seen in the Cave. The best way I've seen is the rotate-to-AP idea. That idea also introduces an element of randomness to the Biomes, which will help.

 

Another good way is something like the Store idea, where people with slow connections but who are willing to be dedicated can earn a CB Gold.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Brite]

Yeah. Some vets of DC who have been here several years don't even have a single CB Gold yet. They may not even have SEEN one. That kind of rarity is absolutely ridiculous.

*raises hand*

 

Me and my sister joined way back in '07. Out of all those years, I've only seen two CB golds, and three CB silvers in the cave. And 95% of them were back when the cave only had one biome and three eggs for all to grab. I've only seen ONE metal in the newer cave.

 

And during the year when the metals were rather thriving, I almost got one but my scroll was full. (Go figure)

 

Other than that, all I see in the caves that are "rare" are coppers, which weren't even suppose to be rare. Don't know what happened there...

 

 

[Sundew]

Yeah. Some vets of DC who have been here several years don't even have a single CB Gold yet. They may not even have SEEN one. That kind of rarity is absolutely ridiculous.

I've been here since 2010 and have put many hours into cave hunting. I have a decent connection, enough to catch easily during the holidays and new releases, but to my memory I have only seen two CB Golds in the cave (both in the biomes).

 

I don't want Golds to become easy to catch. Not at all. They should remain very rare, but I would appreciate them if they were made just slightly easier to catch. I'm not talking noticeable difference, I'm talking something that would allow someone to catch 1 CB Gold in 5 years of playing.

 

I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I've been here since 2010 and have put many hours into cave hunting. I have a decent connection, enough to catch easily during the holidays and new releases, but to my memory I have only seen two CB Golds in the cave (both in the biomes).

 

I don't want Golds to become easy to catch. Not at all. They should remain very rare, but I would appreciate them if they were made just slightly easier to catch. I'm not talking noticeable difference, I'm talking something that would allow someone to catch 1 CB Gold in 5 years of playing.

 

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Even 1 per 5 years is a little ridiculous. A diligent player deserves to get 1 a year at the least. (All I want is the ability to get 2 CB pairs- enough to make a 3rd gen checker with my own dragons instead of trying to find someone to bargain with for a measly 2nd gen).

 

I don't expect them to become extremely common- I just think they should be considerably less rare so that people who don't have a premium internet connection have a chance to at least see them every so often.

[Tehya Faye]

I think 2 per year would be a decent rate, as far as averages go. With that sort of rate casual users have a chance of getting their M/F pair within a few years, while dedicated people can slowly work towards a decent stock for lineage building.

[Nerei]

I just saw a Gold egg in the Coast-- I fact, the third CB Gold egg I've ever seen. I clicked it reflexively, so quickly I felt positive I'd get it. But no, someone else appeared to have caught it first and fogged it immediately. It makes me feel bad to think it most likely went to a scroll that is already filled with Golds that were probably not caught honestly, because somehow people are locked with them. I shouldn't assume things, but I think there are a lot of players out there cheating.

[cyradis4]

I just saw a Gold egg in the Coast-- I fact, the third CB Gold egg I've ever seen. I clicked it reflexively, so quickly I felt positive I'd get it. But no, someone else appeared to have caught it first and fogged it immediately. It makes me feel bad to think it most likely went to a scroll that is already filled with Golds that were probably not caught honestly, because somehow people are locked with them. I shouldn't assume things, but I think there are a lot of players out there cheating.

Anyone with any sense at all fogs CB Golds as SOON as they catch them, not just cheaters! Why? Because every gold has someone who missed the click... And there are, sadly, those who respond to such a catch by view bombing the Gold they missed. Happens all the time, to the point where for a while, it was absurdly common to see threads like, "Help! My CB Gold died, it was my first ever, who would do such a thing?"

 

The 2 CB Golds I caught myself? Promptly fogged. The golds I traded for? Fogged till ER, then hatched, then fogged till they were ready to go. There are some really nasty people on this game (a lot of nice ones, too!) So anyone who's been around even a little knows to fog immediately.

 

So the simple act of fogging does not mean it went to a cheater. Actually, a cheater would have their scroll name off, so you wouldn't be able to find their scroll, fog or no fog. So the fogging was almost certainly purely to keep the egg safe.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Nerei]

I didn't mean to imply that fogging = cheating, I was just frustrated and imagining how some Gold eggs are definitely caught unfairly by actual cheaters.

[The Flash]

I saw my first CB Gold a couple of days ago. Could have gotten it relatively easily, but I switched biomes too quickly.

[olympe]

I just saw a Gold egg in the Coast-- I fact, the third CB Gold egg I've ever seen. I clicked it reflexively, so quickly I felt positive I'd get it. But no, someone else appeared to have caught it first and fogged it immediately. It makes me feel bad to think it most likely went to a scroll that is already filled with Golds that were probably not caught honestly, because somehow people are locked with them. I shouldn't assume things, but I think there are a lot of players out there cheating.

My guess is that a fogged CB gold (or silver, for that matter) is one that was caught by someone, not by something. Or do current scripts know to fog what they catch?

[dragongrrl]

I just saw a Gold egg in the Coast-- I fact, the third CB Gold egg I've ever seen. I clicked it reflexively, so quickly I felt positive I'd get it. But no, someone else appeared to have caught it first and fogged it immediately. It makes me feel bad to think it most likely went to a scroll that is already filled with Golds that were probably not caught honestly, because somehow people are locked with them. I shouldn't assume things, but I think there are a lot of players out there cheating.

It's wisdom to fog any egg as it comes onto your scroll, no matter what the breed, just in case someone else was clicking at the same time and has a snit about missing the egg.

 

My babies spend most of their time fogged, and there are very rarely any Golds (or other metals) among them.

 

I still think some way of disabling scripters would be the biggest solution. There are some very fast and very honest players, but I doubt any of them could catch as many as fast as a cheater.

[Syphoneira]

I do know people (generally on business computers) who have been able to honestly catch as many as several Golds a day - but there certainly have been cheaters on and are likely quite a number still going.

 

While I know nothing of this myself, I've been told and seen various suggestions where small changes to the page/egg description text might, for example, knock out bots without distorting the text too much for human to read, so if something of this nature might work, we can hope that it might be adopted some day soon, and adapted as necessary to give everyone a truly fair chance.

 

Dragons people need to continue play in various areas should be possible to get through reasonable time and effort - and they did use to be, at least for a while, so I do strongly feel that something needs to be done...

[The Flash]

Yeah, I agree that bots/scripts need to be dealt with first. Somehow.

[NotBambi]

My guess is that a fogged CB gold (or silver, for that matter) is one that was caught by someone, not by something. Or do current scripts know to fog what they catch?

Actually, if I was going to be checking the eggs caught by someone else and if I was to be suspicious, I would be wondering why people would not be fogging rare eggs, not the other way around. If, for example, there are a bunch of CB Golds caught in the Alpine, within a short period of time, and they haven't been fogged for hours, that would raise a red flag in my mind. But I'm not a mod so I will not worry about.

As (I think) I posted previously, it takes quite more time, for someone that missed an egg, to replace 'get' with 'view' and go inspect the egg they missed than to the new owner to click Dragons and Actions and Hide.

Edited June 21, 2015 by NotBambi

[Obscure_Trash]

I understand that scripting will naturally be a part of this conversation, but I do not want to see this dicussion focused on scripting. Let TJ worry about what's possible to catch scripting-wise and about if a suggestion will benefit scripters so much it wouldn't be worth it to implement the suggestion. If there's something that needs considered, he'll post about it. ^^

Reminder.

[RecycledHeart]

@cyradis4

I always fog my eggs no matter what they are and I have my scroll name off. I don't cheat. I do it to protect against viewbombing because when I did have my scroll name I was relentlessly viewbombed whenever I got a cb rare.

 

 

I think cb golds are a bit too rare so just bumping up their ratios a bit should be good. But really no matter how we tweak the ratios it's not going to do much good with all the cheaters snatching up all the golds. Like just tweaking the descriptions a bit should help. I don't know how this actually works like if you need to change the words or placement but it should be done.

 

So basically no ratio change imo until the cheaters are dealt with because ratio changes are just going to make things easier for THEM and harder for US.

Edited June 21, 2015 by RecycledHeart