Trader's Canyon

[silver_tiger]

I love this idea so long as rare eggs are very expensive and still hard to get.

I also think CB holidays should only be available when that holiday's breeding is going on. I mean, how can traders get eggs to trade if the dragons aren't making any?

 

I think we should probably make a working list to figure out what breeds should be in the canyon.

Obviously golds, silvers, prizes, and holidays but what about coppers or trios? Or maybe unbreedables like papers and cheeses?

Might be a good idea to add BSA dragons too but for a much lower price than the rares.

I swear there used to be a list...

 

And yeah, I want all of those things, ideally. Papers and Cheeses, Chickens, Trios, all of it. And I think BSA should be significantly cheaper, since they're meant to be common really, or uncommon at the very most. They're just hard to find because everyone wants lots of them! Which is a very good reason to put them in the Store.

[_Sin_]

I swear there used to be a list...

There was...

[Draikinator]

ooh, im into it. honestly i would think this would eve things out some like; yeah, youll never get as many rares as people with more time and better internet but you never would anyway; but this garuntees it as possible. i breed enough stuff, work enough no my dragons when i have time and eventuually i WILL be able to get those highly prized items through hard word. im into it, im into it

[Fiona]

Yes, there was a list, one that included relative prices.

 

What will not be available in the Canyon is CB hybrids and alts, nor colored stripes. Guardians of Nature would not be available. Neglecteds and Zombies would not be included. The consensus on holidays was only in their holiday. Everything else was included. So, essentially, if you get it by a special method or by breeding it won't be in the store. If it ever dropped in the cave it will be there. Prizes will be there.

 

Vampires I think were still being discussed. They're gotten by a special method but originally dropped in the cave. They were a Halloween release but can be obtained all year round. Personally though I didn't see a real good reason to exclude them.

[Zeditha]

Hmm...

Perhaps for Vampires, you can get them CB - as originally released - in their holiday, but you can also get them 'CB' any other time.

By that I mean, they have no lineage, like this vampire, but they do have a 'Bitten By' field - and it would say 'Trader's Vampire'. (Maybe that vampire would have a name?)

 

Just a thought that would be cool, I think

[silver_tiger]

I personally have wanted a CB Vampire for a *very* long time; I think being able to get them in their holiday would be good! They're so easy to get the rest of the year, though, I think you should only be able to get them CB from the store during Halloween.

[Thuban]

The price list you guys are referencing should probably be added back to first post...

 

Pricing: We decided to go with a Gold standard, meaning that Golds are going to continue to be considered the most rare. Thank you everyone who had weighed in on that!

Tier 5 (Metals):

Gold - 1:1 (6 months)

Silver - 1:0.83 (4.98, rounding to 5 months)

Copper (all three colors) - 1:0.67 (4.02, rounding to 4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - 1:0.67 to 1:0.83 (from 4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4 (Holidays):

All Holidays - 1:0.5 (3 months)

 

Tier 3 (Trios and Unbreedables):

All - 1:0.33 (1.98, rounding to 2 months)

 

Tier 2 (Multiple CB Color Morph and non-Trio BSAs):

"Random" version of multi-colored - 1:0.08 (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - 1:0.24 to 1:0.33 (6 weeks to 2 months)

BSA (not Trios) - 1:0.08 to 1:0.12 (2 to 3 weeks)

 

Tier 1 (Everything Else Available):

All - 1:0.04 (about a weeks' worth of points)

[Zeditha]

Would the specific shard prices fluctuate? I'd imagine that as rarities bobbed up and down with their ratios, the shard prices would also fluctuate.

I'd also think that perhaps each breed could have a small range of prices, and each week or day a value within that range is randomly chosen. So if I want, say, a Cassare, and it's usually around 15 shards, it could fluctuate between about 13 and 17. So you'd want to check back every so often to see if the prices have come down enough for you to snap up a good deal.

This would be DC-wide, though, so nobody can get a rare for a lower price than someone else buying at the same time.

 

I do like the idea of being able to get common breeds in the canyon - it would certainly remove the necessity for hunting.

Perhaps there could be a 'blocker of the week' feature, where the most underpopulated breed (or three breeds, or five, or two, or whatever) is chosen to be displayed at the top of the canyon page, with some text like:

 

"As you approach the trader, he brings out these three eggs. He says he doesn't want them, so you can have one for free."

And maybe these eggs would be at 6d rather than 7, to make them more desirable? It would definitely encourage people to visit the canyon and raise the blocker breeds.

(As a side note, I'd make it choose the least populated breed/s that weren't chosen last week, just to keep it moving so that it's not the exact same egg every week.)

I'd suggest that you could only grab one (or two, or three, or whatever limit is reasonable) of these eggs every 8-day cycle.

[olympe]

Would the specific shard prices fluctuate? I'd imagine that as rarities bobbed up and down with their ratios, the shard prices would also fluctuate.

I'd also think that perhaps each breed could have a small range of prices, and each week or day a value within that range is randomly chosen. So if I want, say, a Cassare, and it's usually around 15 shards, it could fluctuate between about 13 and 17. So you'd want to check back every so often to see if the prices have come down enough for you to snap up a good deal.

This would be DC-wide, though, so nobody can get a rare for a lower price than someone else buying at the same time.

 

I do like the idea of being able to get common breeds in the canyon - it would certainly remove the necessity for hunting.

Perhaps there could be a 'blocker of the week' feature, where the most underpopulated breed (or three breeds, or five, or two, or whatever) is chosen to be displayed at the top of the canyon page, with some text like:

 

"As you approach the trader, he brings out these three eggs. He says he doesn't want them, so you can have one for free."

And maybe these eggs would be at 6d rather than 7, to make them more desirable? It would definitely encourage people to visit the canyon and raise the blocker breeds.

(As a side note, I'd make it choose the least populated breed/s that weren't chosen last week, just to keep it moving so that it's not the exact same egg every week.)

I'd suggest that you could only grab one (or two, or three, or whatever limit is reasonable) of these eggs every 8-day cycle.

That's all well and nice in theory, and also adds a touch of realism to the market. However, I find it superfluous. Small fluctuations don't do much to improve the game experience and add unnecessary complexity to the game. And big fluctuations probably won't happen to the "real" rares, although fake rares (Almandine, Blusang, Nebula...) might get affected in a rather bad way. Personally, I prefer fixed prices for two reasons: Simplicity and reliability. I can rely on the fact that a CB X costs Y shards, and that the price won't go up just when I have managed to save up enough shards to buy an egg.

[Pokemonfan13]

The economics would be such that it would not be possible to do all your hunting in the store. At least not unless you do 99% breeding and AP hunting. And even then, those shards you give out for a canopy would mean it would take more time to get to one of the big ones, like prizes and CB holidays.

 

I have no strong feelings about the store giving out freebies of blocker breeds. Although I'd personally prefer to have CB eggs that sit too long be sent to the AP as the method of getting them into circulation.

[Zeditha]

The economics would be such that it would not be possible to do all your hunting in the store. At least not unless you do 99% breeding and AP hunting. And even then, those shards you give out for a canopy would mean it would take more time to get to one of the big ones, like prizes and CB holidays.

I only ever look at the cave when there's a new release. Being able to get things from a store would simply mean reliability; when I want a common for a lineage, I can just get it. And I don't try to get commons often enough for it to severely impact my chances of getting a rare.

 

But that's just my playstyle; I forgot that many people do hunt the cave regularly.

I should have said 'reduce' rather than 'remove' the need for hunting.

[Kalanna Rai]

I support this. It's always easier for me to focus on a game if I have a goal to work towards. I would more than happily cap points every week if I could manage to get just a few of the CB holiday dragons I've missed. I always see pretty lineages and I regret not being able to help them along because I lack the CB necessary.

 

Since the change where you are no longer limited to 2 Valentine/Christmas dragons per scroll and since you were never limited for Halloween dragons this is a wonderful additional opportunity.

[Eggcellent]

I totally support this idea. This would provide a slow, yet reliable way for people to obtain dragons they really want without having to stalk/refresh the cave. It would be great for newer members who missed out on holiday CBs, and it would give us all another thing to work towards. I imagine Trader's Canyon would be one heck of a beast to implement, but it seems like a really cool feature everyone could make use of.

[aqua17]

Totally support this.Would be nice for this Holidays.

 

mystyic

[MessengerDragon]

This suggestion has its positives, but I don't like it because it would drastically change the game - it would give dragons a specific price, and I don't like the idea of this.

[olympe]

We already have rather set prices for a lot of things - or almost-set. Under normal circumstances, you won't be able to trade anything but a 2nd gen prize or ND for a CB gold. Nor will you be able to trade one CB silver to get one CB gold. (Yes, I know there are some exceptions to the 'rules' I stated. But they're few and far between. And, at least in the trading section, we might still see those exceptional trades under certain circumstances.)

 

However, with a store, we will all be able to get what we really crave, at least eventually. Which, to me, more than makes up any impacts on trading and value that the store *might* have.

Edited December 16, 2016 by olympe

[Thuban]

You also have to consider that the prices given are a matter of /time/ more than a specific price. Relative values based on percieved rarity: We KNOW golds are meant to be the official rare, as they are the rarest thing available in cave year round, so they are the most expensive. We know outside of cbs, the prize dragons tend to breed more like uncommons overall, hence them being "cheaper" than golds.

 

I fail to see how this drastically changes the game. All it does is officially place the silvers and golds as actual rares, which take about 6 months for ONE gold to be earned through normal, week to week game play. Nothing about your specific style of play has to change. Log in, get some points. Breed a bit, get some points. Raise some dragons, get some points. There is other fluff that could lead toward drastic changes /someday/ but the core, base idea has very little impact on game play, since nothing earned from this shop is tradable. There is no game of luck, there is no skill required.. just log in, play, earn free stuff that you may or may not be able to catch on your own. This guarentees people can earn at least 2 (up to three) prizes a year, there are no real drawbacks. It will help with prices over time, but probably not immediately.

 

It does nothing to change the existing trade economy directly, thats completely on the users that are setting the economy. The numbers arent set in stone, they are what the people that were active in the thread came up with after (wasnt it two weeks?) of going back and forth on apparent rarities. As always, the numbers can be fudged a bit as needed depending on what TJ needs/wants.

 

 

If you still see a problem here, please feel free to bring it up, and I'll try to explain it.

[Sheriziya]

I can't believe I've seen this thread! With the 86 pages it has at the moment, I'm going on the first post and the last few posts for my information. If I happen to make a suggestion/question which has been answered already, please let me know

 

I very much like this idea! It would give newbies (and veterans as well for that matter) the chance to get CB holidays and it would be a very good solution for the "Prizes" controlling the market, I think. It's the next best besides releasing them in the cave (which I expect is going to happen next to never). Sure, you won't get prizes easily, but that's okay, in my opinion. At least they'll become available to all players, instead of a very small select group of winners and everyone will be able to get a complete set.

 

Having the unbreedables in the stores as well can greatly help people who can't seem to catch them for whatever reason so I'm happy to see those in the list as well.

 

Glad to see Spriter's Alts are NOT included in the list. Those are really special for the spriters as a reward for their hard work and it wouldn't be fair to have just anyone have them.

 

Since the CB Bred Alts and CB Hybrids are explicitly mentioned as a NO in the limitations, I assume it's been discussed thoroughly. Would love to have seen them in the store, though

 

As for the expansion things:

Would the mini games gives points additional on the 100-point cap, or does the 100-point cap include the points that can be earned through the mini games? I'd vote for the latter one, if needed be.

 

Well, that's it for now! Thanks for starting this Thuban!

[Pokemonfan13]

The current version doesn't really include mini games. Just listed as a possible future feature.

 

Personally, I would think mini games would have a second, separate cap. The current cap that is filled by raising dragons is designed to be so low that anyone who is active, no matter their play style, could fill it. So adding mini games to that cap would end up not really giving any benefit.

[Thuban]

I can't believe I've seen this thread! With the 86 pages it has at the moment, I'm going on the first post and the last few posts for my information. If I happen to make a suggestion/question which has been answered already, please let me know

 

I very much like this idea! It would give newbies (and veterans as well for that matter) the chance to get CB holidays and it would be a very good solution for the "Prizes" controlling the market, I think. It's the next best besides releasing them in the cave (which I expect is going to happen next to never). Sure, you won't get prizes easily, but that's okay, in my opinion. At least they'll become available to all players, instead of a very small select group of winners and everyone will be able to get a complete set.

 

Having the unbreedables in the stores as well can greatly help people who can't seem to catch them for whatever reason so I'm happy to see those in the list as well.

 

Glad to see Spriter's Alts are NOT included in the list. Those are really special for the spriters as a reward for their hard work and it wouldn't be fair to have just anyone have them.

 

Since the CB Bred Alts and CB Hybrids are explicitly mentioned as a NO in the limitations, I assume it's been discussed thoroughly. Would love to have seen them in the store, though

 

As for the expansion things:

Would the mini games gives points additional on the 100-point cap, or does the 100-point cap include the points that can be earned through the mini games? I'd vote for the latter one, if needed be.

 

Well, that's it for now! Thanks for starting this Thuban!

I still have all of the removed fluff saved somewhere. There was a LOT of potential expansion points worked out over those 86 pages, but we decided to drop back down to just a core idea, to see how it works out and save the rest for later

 

One of the issues with mini games was that people didnt want to /have/ to play them in order to get points. They wanted to be able to log in and do their normal play... since mini games arent really part of this game, outside of events. I havent really put much thought into how to handle that just yet, as its not a feature needed to make this work. I imagine it would be separate, but rather low in point gains. The other option I came up with was to possibly just have the points offere be a slightly different currency that gets used on the bsa items, so that the trader (dragon) shop stays just dragons. Again, since its not needed in the core idea, its something that can be figured out later, if the need comes up.I'd like to see the shop run on its own for at least a year before we start expanding it... so there are as few bumps as possible.

[Pokemonfan13]

I like the idea of having two systems: dragon raising gets you dragons, minigame playing gets you items. I really do like that, actually. The one thing that's bugged me about all the extra items that have been created for the store is that they take the same thing that you're saving up to get a rare dragon. I'd never be willing to spend my precious points on any of them while I'm still getting prizes and CB holidays. Having them be a separate system with a separate points source would solve that problem nicely.

[Zeditha]

I'd personally manage it by having just the one point cap, and raising it a bit (double?). That would let anyone who doesn't want to raise dragons for whatever reason (e.g. scroll goals are accomplished) can play the minigames to fill their shard limits, or people who don't like/want to play the minigames can just keep raising dragons to fill the limit. For me it would be a mix of both.

 

Of course, the minigame/s would be playable even if the shard limit was reached, like the Halloween one was.

 

I think there was a suggestion of an additional bonus if you raise a blocker breed, and that should have no limit; I think that, specifically, it should have its own counter: 'Weekly Shard Limit' and 'Blocker Bonus', or whatever they should be called.

So, perhaps the link that says 'store' could be re-introduced to the top of the scroll page, as well as being added to the main cave, and your current weekly and total shard counts could be listed there?

Also, a minor thing, but the weekly limits would presumably refresh at midnight between Sunday and Monday? I've had disagreements with some people over when the end of the week technically is, so I want to clarify.

[Fuzzbucket]

I like the idea of having two systems: dragon raising gets you dragons, minigame playing gets you items. I really do like that, actually. The one thing that's bugged me about all the extra items that have been created for the store is that they take the same thing that you're saving up to get a rare dragon. I'd never be willing to spend my precious points on any of them while I'm still getting prizes and CB holidays. Having them be a separate system with a separate points source would solve that problem nicely.

This. I would hate the minigames to "buy" dragons. I'd likely play some when I was very bored - but I'd not like to see them actually affecting play as such.

 

This store would be the PERFECT Christmas gift to players, she said hopefully....

[VixenDra]

The minigames grinding is the primary reason I left Flight Rising after just a few days of playing... and the fact I had to stalk to even register to that game didn't make me any less sorry that I stopped playing... it was taking almost all day to me to grind the daily max currency:/ I hated it. And it's the same minigames all the time, each one of them boring and generic... you can find plenty of such games on Facebook alone, not to mention other sources...

 

I'd rather keep minigames for holiday events exclusively... only then they can be fun and exciting...

 

To me, the best about this suggestion, exept for everyone being able to get CBs of dragons listed, is that it doesn't require timewasting on boring minigames every single day or week or whatever... That regardless of your gamestyle you can earn the currency for these CBs(& maybe also items in the future) by just playing the game as always (or just not a few times a year:P)

 

If minigames end up a thing here though, I'd rather have them not having a separate daily/weekly maximum, but a combined one with the regular DC play so if sb hates playing some stupud, boring, generic game (of a sort they can find infinite copies of around) every day or week, they don't feel they're forced to just to not be behind those who do...

I could have limited my Flight Rising grinding to just a bit a day instead of reaching the maximal income, but that just felt not of a sollution at all, especially as I loathed all these minigames after 2 days of playing...

Let's not have DC copy other games' mistakes...^^;

[saltywench]

I loathe mini games. I would want a store based solely on dragon cave play, raising, breeding, using BSA's, collecting common armies, etc. The store is a GREAT idea.

 

I've been playing this game since 2008 and I STILL do not have a single CB Gold or Silver. It is ridiculous to be so loyal to a game you have 4,000 plus Dragons, but have no real chance of getting a very rare Dragon, or of earning one. This needed to be done years ago. I don't agree with capping purchases at only two. If someone wants to save for a year to buy three golds, let them. Seriously, how many players actually stay and play this game daily for YEARS? Quite a few, but not an overwhelming number. And even if they all stayed, every single one, it would just make the rares even more impossibly rare because 20,000 people are all searching for one single gold egg. I search on average 3 hours a day, every day, and if I can't see a single gold go by in months, the rare is out of whack. Right now it's like looking for a four leaf clover in the mouth of a salad eating dragon.

 

Give people some HOPE. Stop worrying about your trades. More people who CAN trade is a good thing, esp as people who have all the older stuff just quit or get a life and move on taking their rares with them.