Trader's Canyon

[Fuzzbucket]

I agree with Cinnamin Draconna that coupons for lower tier items as prizes is basically worthless to me. I don't see myself buying anything but prizes and holidays from the store for a very long time. I know I would be very unlikely to participate in the raising contests that are the proposed way to get the coupons if the only thing available is a coupon relating to a lower tier egg.

But - then - don't do that particular thing. Just as I don't go for BOGOF offers on products I won't use. Not everyone will want to do everything. Unless there is no other way to play at some point, I don't expect to do grinding minigames.

[cyradis4]

I agree with Cinnamin Draconna that coupons for lower tier items as prizes is basically worthless to me. I don't see myself buying anything but prizes and holidays from the store for a very long time. I know I would be very unlikely to participate in the raising contests that are the proposed way to get the coupons if the only thing available is a coupon relating to a lower tier egg.

 

I don't see why if you are due for a coupon you couldn't be given the option to select the coupon OR a number of shards equal to or just a bit less than the expected value of the coupon. (if the nature of the coupon would get you a 200 shards discount, you would be given the option to accept maybe 200 or 190 shards instead of the coupon) Then it's not "turning the coupon in for shards", it's two options for the prize: a coupon or shards. But I don't really see the problem with turning in a coupon for shards either.

I think offering shards at say, 75%, of the coupon's "face value" would be quite fair, myself. It gives each contest a larger participation base, while making the coupon more valuable than the shards.... for those who want it. And still gives an option to those who don't.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Why for the love of little dragons should the shard reward be less than the coupon is worth?

 

I would be going to the same amount of effort to earn the coupon as every other player, so why should I get a less valuable prize just because I prefer shards?

 

That's about as unfair a giving one person a dollar bill and giving another person $.75 in change, just because they'd rather have quarters instead of the $1 bill.

 

So NO... equal shards or NO coupons at all.

[Pokemonfan13]

But - then - don't do that particular thing. Just as I don't go for BOGOF offers on products I won't use. Not everyone will want to do everything. Unless there is no other way to play at some point, I don't expect to do grinding minigames.

The problem is those coupons are being given out as prizes, not in a "everyone can use it if they want" situation like the grocery store. It's a pretty bad "prize" if it's something I'm never going to want to use.

[Thuban]

The problem is those coupons are being given out as prizes, not in a "everyone can use it if they want" situation like the grocery store. It's a pretty bad "prize" if it's something I'm never going to want to use.

Not every coupon is the result of a prize...

 

They came up as an idea for contests, sure, but then I expanded it to include silly things like achievements for raising x number of breed.. so those people who just play on their own, doing their own thing, still can earn them too.

 

Contests: would be the things most likely to have things geared towards the more rare things. The "raise the most (breed)" or "hatch the most eggs" to win type things.

 

Achievement based ones (things like own 10 reds, breed ten eggs, breed x times just stupid goals that can be worked toward on your own time that aren not set in stone yet) would vary based on the achievement being met.

 

as for trading them in for shards, im still not ok with it. I'd rather phrase them to be "Redeem for (thing: free red or tier 3 item for example) or use for x shards off your next purchase" x being roughly whatever the points that the original dragon/item is worth. We still dont have specific point numbers worked out, just general fuzzy time frames for how long it takes to earn things...in relation to golds.

 

So, to clarify: Im fine with them being used for "x shards off your next purchase" but I'm NOT ok with them actually being traded in for shards.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Please don't get stuck on semantics. Trading them in for X shards.... This coupon is worth X shards off your next purchase... IS THE EXACT SAME THING, it's just worded differently.

 

And personally I don't care which wording is used as long as it means the same thing. If I earn a coupon that says I win an XYZ dragon worth ABC shards, I want to know that XYZ and ABC are EQUAL. Meaning that if I do not want the XYZ dragon I can instead get ABC shards.

 

Now I admit that the devil is in the details, but don't let the details take over the process. We want a store.. we want to buy things with some kind of currency.

Store = Trader's Canyon

Currency = Shards

What they are called is NOT all that important. What matters is that we get 'something' that uses 'currency' to let us acquire dragons. Worry about the details later.. let's get the PROCESS working first.

 

The PROCESS being a STORE where we can BUY THINGS with CURRENCY.

[Pokemonfan13]

I think "x shards off your next purchase" option for the coupons would be a reasonable compromise. Just as long as the coupon isn't completely limited to the lower tiers. (and the coupons could be combined? I can imagine getting multiple coupons before getting enough shards for a prize, and it would stink if it was a "one coupon per purchase" situation)

 

(although I agree with Cinnamin Draconna that it's just semantics. Yes, the coupon can't be turned in to add to your "shards" count, but it still ends up costing you X shards less to buy that dragon than it would if you didn't obtain the coupon)

Edited July 27, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[Thuban]

It may be semantics to you, but to me, I have been very specific about not wanting to turn things in to gain /shards/. Honestly, I dont feel that the coupons need to be able to be turned in.. Just because you have no use for the 25 cents off a can of tomatoes, doesnt mean you can go demanding the quarter you would have saved by purchasing them.

 

I am not prepared to argue the support for the ability to turn coupons in for shards because the coupons dont exist. We dont have a list of specific sales, we dont have price values assigned to them. I could see the more rare ones being swapped for shards, but I can not see the dinky common ones being worth all that much. I will keep your desire to swap them for shards in mind.. but without a list of at least general idea for what the coupons are, what they are good for, how they are obtained, and (reasonably, how rare they are), its kind of hard to say "yea sure". I dont feel like every coupon should be able to be traded in for shards, and that it depends on other factors that we cant really account for yet.

 

Coupons from "contests" specifically, sure, depending on what the coupon is for, its probably likely they can be turned in for shards. But the super common ones from things like achievements or that are just handed out for whatever reason.. those would probably be able to be turned in like 20 at a time for x number of shards, rather than for a full face value per coupon. What you guys are asking for could very well break this system we have built so far. I have a feeling that coupons wouldnt be added right away, on account of preferring to see what the market does and giving it a chance to stabilize before adding more fluff.

[TJ09]

Now I admit that the devil is in the details, but don't let the details take over the process. We want a store.. we want to buy things with some kind of currency.

Store = Trader's Canyon

Currency = Shards

What they are called is NOT all that important. What matters is that we get 'something' that uses 'currency' to let us acquire dragons. Worry about the details later.. let's get the PROCESS working first.

 

The PROCESS being a STORE where we can BUY THINGS with CURRENCY.

I agree with the sentiment here. I haven't been able to follow the thread because I look away for a few days and suddenly it goes in a fully different direction. It seems like this idea is falling victim to "scope creep" (incrementally expanding the feature set more and more). I'd like to see more of a focus on the core mechanics, and stop there for now.

If a store is implemented, it's not going to have everything all at once, it's going to be "a store where you can buy things with currency" at first, with a few basic ways to get said currency.

 

So focus on answers to the following questions (you pretty much already have these), and leave everything else for "version 2":

• What can you buy?
• How do you buy it/how are prices determined? (note that this explicitly doesn't say "what are the prices")
• How do you get currency to buy things?
• What limitations (if any) exist on the previous points?
• What are the possible expansion points? (just single sentences of what can maybe happen in the future, not fully-fleshed-out)

If you're good with those, then that's fine for now, but when I look at the first post, it's a massive essay in need of simplification.

[Thuban]

I'll get to work on streamlining the information. Will need some time.

[_Sin_]

I agree with the sentiment here. I haven't been able to follow the thread because I look away for a few days and suddenly it goes in a fully different direction. It seems like this idea is falling victim to "scope creep" (incrementally expanding the feature set more and more). I'd like to see more of a focus on the core mechanics, and stop there for now.

If a store is implemented, it's not going to have everything all at once, it's going to be "a store where you can buy things with currency" at first, with a few basic ways to get said currency.

 

So focus on answers to the following questions (you pretty much already have these), and leave everything else for "version 2":

What can you buy?

How do you buy it/how are prices determined? (note that this explicitly doesn't say "what are the prices")

How do you get currency to buy things?

What limitations (if any) exist on the previous points?

What are the possible expansion points? (just single sentences of what can maybe happen in the future, not fully-fleshed-out)

If you're good with those, then that's fine for now, but when I look at the first post, it's a massive essay in need of simplification.

TJ didn't ask for consensus, just for simplification, right?

Here I go:

• What can you buy?

Everything that used to be available via raffles, HM included.

• How do you buy it/how are prices determined? (note that this explicitly doesn't say "what are the prices")

Prices are directly linked to chances of getting the item on the cave or via breeding (i.e. Gold is hard to get in the cave, hard to get via breeding; Tinsels and Shimmers breed like rabbits)

• How do you get currency to buy things?

Mini-games (do not hate me, I’ve been pushing for that even before the store concept existed)

Daily, common actions:

Breed

Hatch

Raise

• What limitations (if any) exist on the previous points?

Not tradeable: you “buy” something, must grow in your scroll

• What are the possible expansion points? (just single sentences of what can maybe happen in the future, not fully-fleshed-out)

Every other idea/suggestion

 

[Fiona]

_Sin_, what you have there isn't the consensus that the thread has come up with. Let's let Thuban summarize what the thread has discussed, ok? We have all of that worked out ina way most of us agreed we'd be happy having. Thuban just needs to spell it out simply and clearly for TJ's benefit.

 

The only things we were still discussing were the expansion points, actually.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Fiona BlueFire

[Thuban]

I am horrible at summaries. Here is the base framework though.

 

What can be purchased with Shards?

- Any dragon that is obtainable in cave, Prize dragons and Past Holiday dragons during their specific windows.

- Items that mimic BSAs (both existing, and suggested)

 

How are shards earned?

-By collecting, breeding and raising dragons. Obtaining an egg, hatching an egg into hatchy stage, and raising a dragon to adulthood earns one point each step of the way. Using certain BSAs earn a point (Incubate, Influence, Fertility). There is a 100 point cap in place, per 8 day cycle (though 16 days could work).

 

-Some breeds can earn extra points if the store has decided they they are a overstocked. These dragons would earn an extra .2 shards once they have grown to adult stage, or have been frozen. NO limit on the bonus points.

 

How are they used?

-Shards can be traded in to an NPC trader for "Cave" biome eggs, and items

 

How are prices set:

-We decided to use Golds as the most expensive dragon, and broke the other breeds down as being worth a percentage of golds.

 

What limitations exist?

-Some actions have a limit to how many times they can be applied towards the "weekly" goal.

-There is absolutely no user to user interaction for any part of this. Nothing obtained from the store is tradable, the currency is untradable.

-The store will not open to users until they have obtained Bronze badge, however, they will earn points from day one.

-CB BRED Alts and Hybrids are not part of this.

 

Things that could be expanded:

-We have lore for various sections of the store in the event it is needed.

-Mini games are something that some users have expressed an interest in as a way to earn points.

-Also various sales and contests that revolve around playing the game (raising x number of things to earn points). Raffles of sorts could also happen, but arent a driving factor.

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by Thuban

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I reserve the right to continue the debate on the so-called consensus. Because there were some points that I NEVER agreed with and don't want to see. But I'll leave it at that for now and wait on Thuban's redo.

[_Sin_]

_Sin_, what you have there isn't the consensus that the thread has come up with. Let's let Thuban summarize what the thread has discussed, ok? We have all of that worked out ina way most of us agreed we'd be happy having. Thuban just needs to spell it out simply and clearly for TJ's benefit.

 

The only things we were still discussing were the expansion points, actually.

If you did not notice, I spelled out that I wasn't addressing consensus, just my own simplification. Is there any reason why I shouldn't? Is there any reason why I shouldn't post my opinion???

 

ETA: I'm quite upset. I don't think that is fair that people shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions, in particular when they state that they are not addressing consensus. I feel like I'm getting told "just shut up".

Edited July 28, 2016 by _Sin_

[Thuban]

If you did not notice, I spelled out that I wasn't addressing consensus, just my own simplification. Is there any reason why I shouldn't? Is there any reason why I shouldn't post my opinion???

Because your information does not match this threads breakdown, and its my job specifically to strip the fluff, and break it down simply. Now, I very well may have missed something, but the base framework hasnt really changed, just the fluff has.

[_Sin_]

Because your information does not match this threads breakdown, and its my job specifically to strip the fluff, and break it down simply. Now, I very well may have missed something, but the base framework hasnt really changed, just the fluff has.

Excuse me but, eventually, that's your "job". That doesn't stop anybody from adding their opinion, even if that is not identical to yours.

BY the way, are you stating that this topic stopped being "Suggestions/Requests" and became Thuban's suggestions/requests?

Edited July 28, 2016 by _Sin_

[Thuban]

Excuse me but, eventually, that's your "job". That doesn't stop anybody from adding their opinion, even if that is not identical to yours.

It wasn't an attack on my part, you had asked if there was a reason that you shouldn't respond with your opinion, and I was stating why your answer was unhelpful. I know the rules and limitations of my thread. I've been the one sorting out the issues, dealing with the compromises, the nitpicking and the larger scale things. I know the bare bones of whats been done here, and the finer details of why things were decided the way they were.

 

We were asked to provide specific information, and the responses you gave did not match what this thread has agreed on. That is where the problem lays.

[Fiona]

_Sin_, I'm very sorry you're getting upset. That certainly wasn't wasn't my intention and I'm sure it wasn't Thuban's. I've sent you a PM to explain what I'm saying more completely. Perhaps we can discuss this there quietly and come to agreement.

[_Sin_]

It wasn't an attack on my part, you had asked if there was a reason that you shouldn't respond with your opinion, and I was stating why your answer was unhelpful. I know the rules and limitations of my thread. I've been the one sorting out the issues, dealing with the compromises, the nitpicking and the larger scale things. I know the bare bones of whats been done here, and the finer details of why things were decided the way they were.

 

We were asked to provide specific information, and the responses you gave did not match what this thread has agreed on. That is where the problem lays.

There are two main points here:

1. Everybody should be allowed to state their opinion. TJ will determine if it is unhelpful, nobody OWNS Suggestions/Requests.

2. If this thread was organized as it should, we wouldn't have TJ saying:

I haven't been able to follow the thread because I look away for a few days and suddenly it goes in a fully different direction. It seems like this idea is falling victim to "scope creep" (incrementally expanding the feature set more and more). I'd like to see more of a focus on the core mechanics, and stop there for now.

 

I was forgetting, my bad... TJ asked to provide specific information (that should have been available already and wasn't) and I answered, prefacing the fact it wasn't based on consensus, just my simplification. The outcome was "shut up" and I feel offended and sad. I expected quite more from you. And... TJ replied to Cinnamin Draconna...

Edited July 28, 2016 by _Sin_

[Thuban]

2. If this thread was organized as it should, we wouldn't have TJ saying:

Its been stated multiple times that the first post is NOT up to date. There is too much nesting, and I cant follow it to make the required edits. I had been working on streamlining the information anyways, so that I could ask mo7 to work their magic on an update. The summary covered the specific thing that had been mentioned to me that was a concern in regards to the first post, the first post just doesn't reflect that yet.

 

1. Everybody should be allowed to state their opinion. TJ will determine if it is unhelpful, nobody OWNS Suggestions/Requests.

No, I dont own suggestions, but I do own this thread. And as the thread owner, it does come down on me to provide the information that was specifically asked for in regards to it. Opinions have no part, when facts are being asked for

 

And with that in mind, lets unbury the original summary, to make sure the needed info has been covered sufficiently:

What can be purchased with Shards?

- Any dragon that is obtainable in cave, Prize dragons and Past Holiday dragons during their specific windows.

- Items that mimic BSAs (both existing, and suggested)

 

How are shards earned?

-By collecting, breeding and raising dragons. Obtaining an egg, hatching an egg into hatchy stage, and raising a dragon to adulthood earns one point each step of the way. Using certain BSAs earn a point (Incubate, Influence, Fertility). There is a 100 point cap in place, per 8 day cycle (though 16 days could work).

 

-Some breeds can earn extra points if the store has decided they they are a overstocked. These dragons would earn an extra .2 shards once they have grown to adult stage, or have been frozen. NO limit on the bonus points.

 

How are they used?

-Shards can be traded in to an NPC trader for "Cave" biome eggs, and items

 

How are prices set:

-We decided to use Golds as the most expensive dragon, and broke the other breeds down as being worth a percentage of golds.

 

What limitations exist?

-Some actions have a limit to how many times they can be applied towards the "weekly" goal.

-There is absolutely no user to user interaction for any part of this. Nothing obtained from the store is tradable, the currency is untradable.

-The store will not open to users until they have obtained Bronze badge, however, they will earn points from day one.

-CB BRED Alts and Hybrids are not part of this.

 

Things that could be expanded:

-We have lore for various sections of the store in the event it is needed.

-Mini games are something that some users have expressed an interest in as a way to earn points.

-Also various sales and contests that revolve around playing the game (raising x number of things to earn points). Raffles of sorts could also happen, but arent a driving factor.

[_Sin_]

Its been stated multiple times that the first post is NOT up to date. There is too much nesting, and I cant follow it to make the required edits. I had been working on streamlining the information anyways, so that I could ask mo7 to work their magic on an update. The summary covered the specific thing that had been mentioned to me that was a concern in regards to the first post, the first post just doesn't reflect that yet.

 

 

No, I dont own suggestions, but I do own this thread. And as the thread owner, it does come down on me to provide the information that was specifically asked for in regards to it. Opinions have no part, when facts are being asked for

 

And with that in mind, lets unbury the original summary, to make sure the needed info has been covered sufficiently:

No offense, I appreciate your efforts. Fact is that TJ asked Cinnamin Draconna. While I will still post my opinion, I'll pay special attention to her replies when and if they happen.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

No offense, I appreciate your efforts. Fact is that TJ asked Cinnamin Draconna. While I will still post my opinion, I'll pay special attention to her replies when and if they happen.

Pretty sure TJ meant "you" in a general sense to anyone who could summarize the consensus the thread has reached. Obviously feedback and opinions are welcome (I'm about to add my own, after all), the reason people were concerned is because you were stating your own opinion when TJ wanted the general consensus (which, as he said himself, has mostly been hammered out by the most active people here). There's no reason to get frustrated about anything, you're still encouraged to give your suggestions, people just didn't want TJ getting the wrong idea of the /general/ consensus the thread has come to ;3

 

Anyway. Thanks for the summary, Thuban. My only question is, why have an 8 day point limit? Many of the timed activities in the game focus around a weekly cycle. Why not keep it simple and make it a 7 day point limit? Much easier to remember that way, methinks.

[_Sin_]

Pretty sure TJ meant "you" in a general sense to anyone who could summarize the consensus the thread has reached. Obviously feedback and opinions are welcome (I'm about to add my own, after all), the reason people were concerned is because you were stating your own opinion when TJ wanted the general consensus (which, as he said himself, has mostly been hammered out by the most active people here). There's no reason to get frustrated about anything, you're still encouraged to give your suggestions, people just didn't want TJ getting the wrong idea of the /general/ consensus the thread has come to ;3

For what concerns the general consensus, not sure that exists but I'm sure Cinnamin is able to summarize different opinions. For what concerns myself, I didn't state I was expressing consensus, actually I clarified that I wasn't.

On top of that, TJ is able to read so I can't figure out why he would get the wrong idea on consensus. Pretty sure he got the right one, this thread keeps changing direction. Glad that he provided bullet points on what we should be focusing, those should have been obvious from the start.

Edited July 28, 2016 by _Sin_

[gigglymonkey12]

As someone who kinda just read more about the Trader's Canyon...

I love the way Thuban summarized it for TJ.

I (sorta) understood the basics of it in the first post, but the summary was definitely concise and didn't overwhelm me.

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