Trader's Canyon

[Thuban]

What's left to decide?

We have items left to tackle, and games, both of which are things that need worked on outside of this thread by the staff.

 

I believe there was a bit more discussion needed in regards to the blockers and how they would count toward shards, but the framework seemed ok as a baseline there. I think you had suggested something about certain prices dropping every now and then, but its been awhile and I cant remember specifics.

 

There was a user request at some point before the pricing discussion that was brought up, that I had promised we would come back to, I just simply havent had the time to go back and look for it. I cant not remember what it was, at all.

 

I also need to figure out what needs edited on the first post, and talk to mo about fixing a few things, since they rocked the formatting.

 

Outside of the blockers and whatever the user request was, I think this thread has knocked out everything that needed to be.

[NotBambi]

What about those of us who joined just after the 10th anniversary? I joined up literally 3 days afterward. If new players can't get at the market, then we're just back in the same situation. It's disheartening to try to trade as a newbie and realize all you can get is stuff you snag off Departures, and you have be fast. I don't support any extra advantages that aren't universal for that reason.

Agreed. I don't see any reason why players that started years ago should have any advantage over people that started yesterday. "Old" players already have a bunch of advantages. To link "starting points" to years in DC stinks of self-interest. If the fear is that new players will not be able to take care of eggs, a Bronze trophy would be enough of a limit.

Frankly, the multi-scroll scare is nothing but a scare. If someone wants to cheat, they will, new or old players likewise. And the Bronze trophy limit would help on that. Furthermore, if people think that others are cheating, they have an easy solution: report.

 

 

Edited: misunderstanding.

Edited July 24, 2016 by NotBambi

[Pokemonfan13]

I think we have enough limits to multiscrolling built in. Number one is how to earn points the person has to actively play on every scroll, which means maintaining all those scrolls takes time. Number two is that the points and the eggs gotten by trading in those points aren't tradeable, which means that all they can do is trade offspring. The bronze trophy requirement is icing on the cake.

 

I'm neutral on the idea of a "freebie" when the store opens. But I don't think it should be based on how old your account is if it does happen.

 

I agree that there's no need to have a system for turning eggs in to the store for points. Even more so for getting hybrids in there. If you really want to make hybrids available to random people who don't have them, you can breed some and abandon them, or post them in departures, or use this neat tool TJ made.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[Fuzzbucket]

I think we have enough limits to multiscrolling built in. Number one is how to earn points the person has to actively play on every scroll, which means maintaining all those scrolls takes time. Number two is that the points and the eggs gotten by trading in those points aren't tradeable, which means that all they can do is trade offspring. The bronze trophy requirement is icing on the cake.

 

I'm neutral on the idea of a "freebie" when the store opens. But I don't think it should be based on how old your account is if it does happen.

 

I agree that there's no need to have a system for turning eggs in to the store for points. Even more so for getting hybrids in there. If you really want to make hybrids available to random people who don't have them, you can breed some and abandon them, or post them in departures, or use this neat tool TJ made.

I don't think anything should be based on how long you've been here. Multiscrolling - as long as the goods from the store are untradeable, there's no huge advantage to it. In fact, it might be easier for TJ to track where goods from the store GO in terms of IP, and watch them...

 

Maybe games (if we must have them) could come later, so that it's easier to get the whole thing up and running - less potential glitches ?

 

TJs neat tool has a major flaw, making it possible to cheat it. So while I use it, sadly, I wouldn't recommend it as a solution for anything.

[Fiona]

On the idea of blockers, and the sale idea:

 

My idea for blockers was that breeds would periodically earn bonus points. Hopefully which breeds for each period would be chosen randomly based on what breeds are most underpopulated. I'm thinking three or four breeds per period.

 

Obtaining one of these, hatching it or growing it to adulthood would earn a small amount of extra points.These extra points would not be subject to the normal cap so those willing to sacrifice scroll space for them could in theory earn something nice faster. The amount of extra points would be small though, and self limiting by scroll space.

 

As for sales, that idea is also targeted toward underpopulated breeds. That doesn't have to be "blockers" per se, but any breed whose population is significantly below what the code expects. In the store the amount of shards needed to buy one of these would be reduced. Or there could be "buy two get one free" type sales and the like. I'm afraid these probably couldn't be automated so would make a little extra work for TJ. However, if sales lasted for a month it would only be a little. It would be up to him whether or not he was willing to spend that extra time on something like this.

 

Examples of what I mean by sales: "This month only! Ember dragon eggs on sale for 20% off! Get them while they're hot!" or "Special deal on Magi dragon eggs! Buy two, get a third for free! This deal won't hang around long!"

 

It doesn't matter what tier a breed falls into for the sale. It just matters that it could use a population boost.

[Thuban]

There was a decent breakdown for the blocker breeds in the first post (bonus total section), that seems like its a good baseline. My confusion came from the "sales" and how to work those out. However, considering that we had specifically tried avoiding both rarity AND ratios with our baseline pricing, perhaps whatever goes on sale should have to be randomized (a mix of blockers and the more expensive ones, because rares.. really cant be blockers and wouldnt happen on the sales ever). We were basing the cycles on the smaller moon so month long sales will not necessarily work.

 

 

Lots of brainstorming ahead... warning. It does not HAVE to play a part in the store, its just an idea.

_________________________________________________________________

I had an interesting thought on the blocker sales though. Since the blocker stuff will have its own section in the "store" i was thinking that perhaps people that do dedicate time to that specific area, might have more sales regarding the blockers offered to them. A "celebrity" bonus, so to speak. Lets see if I can explain it in a way that makes sense.

 

Lets pretend that Pebbles are the main blocker, followed by mints and stones. The Ecology Management Agency (EMA) decides to tell people "raise these". Now, because some people DO like a bit of competition, perhaps the top 50 people per breed to participate in raising blockers during that specific cycle, on top of getting their points from raising per stage, could win a discount "coupon" to be applied toward one purchase (x shards less on one purchase of a "tier x" breed).

 

If a sitewide "raise this breed for a chance to win" thing were to ever happen, i'd imagine that those coupons could be changed to all kinds of interesting things. 2/1 sales and such, good for any (assigned at the time) tier.

 

These could also happen with other things people like to do normally on this site (as a background process that isnt necessarily announced)...Those people who like to hoard one specific breed could potentially win something just by playing the way they already do.. for example those people who like to collect nothing but tsunamis.. without ever going to the store, there is a chance that they could win something because in the background the site has decided "whoever collects the most tsunamis between x and y date wins a coupon". Other options could be "most eggs hatched" "most (color range.. green for example) dragons raised" and other options that are similar. I actually do not know if the sites code could handle something like that, but the thought amuses me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

You mean that the fact that I have well over 100 of a few breeds might get me something suddenly ?

[Fiona]

There's nothing the says "rares" can't be underpopulated, actually... I had remembered that we'd talked about the bonus from raising blockers but hadn't checked the front page this time. What we have there seems to me to work just fine. I'd forgotten about the tie to Cirion. I was just thinking "simple, less than per week time period for TJ to keep track of if he has to figure out what's on sale by hand every time."

 

 

I was thinking sales should be a little simpler than what you've outlined there but the idea of the contests do sound fun.

 

I'm not at all opposed to the idea of everything being available for sales. Who doesn't love a good sale?

[Thuban]

You mean that the fact that I have well over 100 of a few breeds might get me something suddenly ?

Not exactly, no. Whenever the cycle switches (every 8 days I believe) a random breed would be selected and during that cycle, whoever (however many people can win) raises the most of that breed, would have a chance to win. I did specify that it would be a "raise this breed" thing.

 

 

It wouldnt look at what you have raised previously, but what you are raising during the specific window. So, lets say mints are chosen as the specific breed, and just simply breeding an egg of that type and then manually abandoning it to the AP (within the guidelines in the first post) earns a partial point, then people who tend to mass breed those would have a chance to get the coupon. The people that actually raise them though would have more shards being devoted towards their totals (due to more shards coming from the process of actually hatching and then raising that specific breed)

 

(If you are an FR player, think about how the exalt bonuses work.. if you happen to have something that matches the color, the gene and the breed, you get bonuses.. in this case, it would simply be JUST raising the breed that gets you the chance)

 

_______________________________________________________________

 

Lets use Tsunamis (for not blocker) and mints (as the main blocker of choice).

Tsunamis, you get a point for being in possession of the egg. Another when it hatches, another when it grows. 3 points for raising the egg to adult stage. But, because its the chosen breed for the specific window, each one you raise counts towards the chance at the discount coupons. If you were a tsunami hoarder, and those are your focus, without changing anything about how you play, you would have a chance at having bred/raised/collected the most, and therefore could win a coupon.

 

Now mints if they are the current blocker AND the breed needing raised.. you would still get the normal point per stage for raising them, BUT due to being a blocker, you also get the slight bonus point for each stage. On top of that, if you are hoarding them anyhow, you also have the chance to be the highest collector.. which could earn a coupon.

 

In both cases, its really not changing the already existing day to day play. Someone who likes to hoard tsunamis would still earn points by doing what they do. Someone who hoards mints is going to still earn points. The difference is that how much someone earns in points does change based on whether the breed is considered a blocker at the time, or if its the breed that the choice for "whoever raises the most wins". It would be a separate process that just sort of happens, either in the background or openly.

 

I dont know if the sites code can track it but it was a thought I had that seemed like it could be an interesting thing. I just am horrible at vocalizing it.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Thuban

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I like that idea. There are several breeds I hoard and I don't mind raising more of them. Getting to raise them for more points (or whatever) just makes them that much more attractive.

[cyradis4]

There was a decent breakdown for the blocker breeds in the first post (bonus total section), that seems like its a good baseline. My confusion came from the "sales" and how to work those out. However, considering that we had specifically tried avoiding both rarity AND ratios with our baseline pricing, perhaps whatever goes on sale should have to be randomized (a mix of blockers and the more expensive ones, because rares.. really cant be blockers and wouldnt happen on the sales ever). We were basing the cycles on the smaller moon so month long sales will not necessarily work.

 

 

Lots of brainstorming ahead... warning. It does not HAVE to play a part in the store, its just an idea.

_________________________________________________________________

I had an interesting thought on the blocker sales though. Since the blocker stuff will have its own section in the "store" i was thinking that perhaps people that do dedicate time to that specific area, might have more sales regarding the blockers offered to them. A "celebrity" bonus, so to speak. Lets see if I can explain it in a way that makes sense.

 

Lets pretend that Pebbles are the main blocker, followed by mints and stones. The Ecology Management Agency (EMA) decides to tell people "raise these". Now, because some people DO like a bit of competition, perhaps the top 50 people per breed to participate in raising blockers during that specific cycle, on top of getting their points from raising per stage, could win a discount "coupon" to be applied toward one purchase (x shards less on one purchase of a "tier x" breed).

 

If a sitewide "raise this breed for a chance to win" thing were to ever happen, i'd imagine that those coupons could be changed to all kinds of interesting things. 2/1 sales and such, good for any (assigned at the time) tier.

 

These could also happen with other things people like to do normally on this site (as a background process that isnt necessarily announced)...Those people who like to hoard one specific breed could potentially win something just by playing the way they already do.. for example those people who like to collect nothing but tsunamis.. without ever going to the store, there is a chance that they could win something because in the background the site has decided "whoever collects the most tsunamis between x and y date wins a coupon". Other options could be "most eggs hatched" "most (color range.. green for example) dragons raised" and other options that are similar. I actually do not know if the sites code could handle something like that, but the thought amuses me.

I like the idea! Quite a lot.

 

But I think all bonuses have to be shown somewhere on the site, so people aren't just getting random coupons and going, "whut? Free coupons?". Also, if each coupon is for a specific type of reward (20% off a rare, 2 free potions, 30 shards, and such), then I think the reward needs to be stated upfront.

 

If we are giving rewards to the top x raisers, we need to have a leaderboard with how many a person has raised that cycle. That doesn't strike me as that hard, though. The encyclopedia already tracks what's being raised. I'd say give a small prize to places 50 to 11, the "standard" price for spots 10 to 2, and a "grand prize" for the top raiser, maybe two of the chosen coupons? The reason for the large number of prizes is to encourage participation even at a lower level while giving strong incentive for the competitive to strive for the top.... and giving those that *are* competative and will compete just to compete a prize they can work hard on.

 

We could also have a couple going on at once:

- Short term, for 1 cycle of Cirion (8 days)

- Mid term, for 1 cycle of Aurax (16 days)

- Random Long Term, a random time frame from 32 days to 192 days (1 "month" to 6 "months") (note: this would need to be limited to the most under-populated).

 

Short frames are to give people quick competitions, but based on the successes of the Holly Collecting Contest and the Common Collectors Competition, the longer running contests have a much more lasting impression on the ratios. The Long competition would have the best prizes. And the changing time frames is to mess with people's minds.

 

This way, people have potentially 4 blockers to choose from, and can collect at different paces / time frames.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

On a separate note, having anything in this idea that is NOT automatic is a really, really bad idea. People get busy, and if its all depending on one person (TJ), then that makes it very, very easy to mess up.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I have to agree with that. TJ is too unpredictable and rarely even makes an appearance anymore. EVERYTHING about the Store needs to be automated, because otherwise I doubt it would ever get done.

 

I'm sorry, but I no longer trust TJ... haven't for years now.

[olympe]

Automated sure is good.

 

Personally, I don't like handing out 2 for 1 coupons, they're too powerful. Even if you managed to win a site-wide competition, it seems like overkill. Buy one prize/holly/XY, get one free? No frigging way!

 

I think that the bonus points as outlined before should suffice to encourage people to raise blockers.

[cyradis4]

Automated sure is good.

 

Personally, I don't like handing out 2 for 1 coupons, they're too powerful. Even if you managed to win a site-wide competition, it seems like overkill. Buy one prize/holly/XY, get one free? No frigging way!

 

I think that the bonus points as outlined before should suffice to encourage people to raise blockers.

How about we work out various "coupon" options? I frankly agree that getting 2 for the price of one is a Bad Idea, unless its from specific tiers. So any buy one get one free needs to be from a specified tier.

 

Perhaps for the "coupons" or prizes:

- Get a free Tier 1, 2, or 3 dragon (1st gets a Tier 3, 2-10 gets Tier 2, 11-50 get Tier 1)

- Shards: 1st gets 30, 2-10 gets 15, 11-50 gets 5

- Potions: Get x potions free

 

As for Holidays, given the current ratings on the Tiers, most people will be able to get their two Hollies that first Christmas after this goes live. So the first year after this starts Hollies are going to cease to be rare. Also remember that all current scroll limits apply: you can't get more than two Hollies no matter what you do.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Lurhstaap]

I think buy one get one free is fine applied to lower-tier dragons. Hollies and such, no, but I can't see that getting two reds, say, for the price of one is that big a deal.

[Thuban]

Buy one, get one from lesser tier free

[Fiona]

BOGO sales are never for big ticket items, no. When was the last time you heard a commercial that said "Buy one car, get a second for free!"? Yeah.

 

If we liken our tiers to real world shopping Tier 1 would be rather like grocery shopping. Buy one get one free on tomato sauce. Tier two might be more like shoes. You don't often see BOGO but you might see Buy two get one, or Buy one, get one half off. Tier three might be small appliances. Buy a stand mixer, get a set of bowls free. Tier four might be large appliances. Buy a washer, get $100 off on the matching dryer. Or more simply, Save $100 on any of these washers until the end of the month! Tier five might be a car. Buy a car from us, we'll pay the sales tax. The exact deals we offer could differ but I think rather more along these lines.

[Thuban]

Ok, so coupons are a hit, I'm glad to know that idea is liked.

 

With Fiona's breakdown its easier to come up with various sales that could happen sitewide..

 

10% of any one tier 3 item (heh item list still needs work...)

Half off (breed) today only! (limit 2)

 

Whatever sales that happen, could also happen in coupon form for receiving whenever specific goals/achievements are met.

Achievement based:

Let's say the EMA section is offering coupons to winners for raising x number of a breed then anyone who raises that number of that breed would get that coupon. This wouldnt necessarily have a time frame, more of a general "raise ten reds, get a coupon for half off one red. Limit 2 coupons per user" After two, its no longer available to earn.

 

 

Will expand the idea more later (if its not shot down by then). Have a very busy day ahead of me.

[HeatherMarie]

*de-lurks*

 

Coupons sound like a great idea. Besides being exciting and enticing to have, it could really lead to more people picking up commons, whatever the breed is that cycle. I like that. I can actually see myself a lot more interested in the store itself if it had coupons connected to contests of collecting certain breeds.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Most of my eggslots go to my breeding projects, but I could probably delegate 1 or 2 to raising commons (or whatever) for coupons/contests/whatever.

 

But could there be like a 'cash value' type thing too? As in, turn in the coupon for regular shards rather than a discount on a dragon?

 

I want the store to buy the things I can't get in the cave... i.e. Prize Dragons and old Holidays. So Shards are more important to me than any kind of discount.. especially since I can pick up commons for free in the cave.

[Thuban]

Most of my eggslots go to my breeding projects, but I could probably delegate 1 or 2 to raising commons (or whatever) for coupons/contests/whatever.

 

But could there be like a 'cash value' type thing too? As in, turn in the coupon for regular shards rather than a discount on a dragon?

 

I want the store to buy the things I can't get in the cave... i.e. Prize Dragons and old Holidays. So Shards are more important to me than any kind of discount.. especially since I can pick up commons for free in the cave.

The issue is that ALL of the earning of shards comes from playing the game, however it is you play. There is no trading in dragons for shards, no trading in items for shards. There isn't any framework for trading things in for shards, because the shards only purpose to to buy something, and then be deleted. I suppose it could be possible to have rare coupons that could be traded in for x number of shards, but its not really something I had put thought into. I imagine if it were to be a thing though, they would trade in for a much lower value than what the coupon bonus itself would have been (sort of how like most RL coupons are only worth 1/32 of a penny... perhaps not SOOO drastic though )

[Fiona]

Well, RL coupons usually clearly say "No cash value" but I don't see why it would be a problem to be able to turn in coupons for some bonus shards. It would encourage people to actually do more of the Achievement type deals.

[cyradis4]

You could also have coupons that are shards, say. Or have the coupon be "get 10 shards off your next purchase, whatever it is". So you wouldn't be giving out shards, but the person can pick what they want to use it on. And since various contests would have different prizes, some people will participate in some, others in others.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Any time you enter a large sweepstakes or raffle, the so-called 'grand prize' usually has a cash value as well. Like when the prize is a car, if you don't care for the particular model, you can generally opt for the MSRP in cash. Same goes for big ticket vacation packages.. if you don't like the destination, they'll give you the 'cash value' instead.

 

So I don't see why we couldn't have a similar type arrangement for the coupons. Not everyone likes the same kind of dragon, so why not give us the option?

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree with Cinnamin Draconna that coupons for lower tier items as prizes is basically worthless to me. I don't see myself buying anything but prizes and holidays from the store for a very long time. I know I would be very unlikely to participate in the raising contests that are the proposed way to get the coupons if the only thing available is a coupon relating to a lower tier egg.

 

I don't see why if you are due for a coupon you couldn't be given the option to select the coupon OR a number of shards equal to or just a bit less than the expected value of the coupon. (if the nature of the coupon would get you a 200 shards discount, you would be given the option to accept maybe 200 or 190 shards instead of the coupon) Then it's not "turning the coupon in for shards", it's two options for the prize: a coupon or shards. But I don't really see the problem with turning in a coupon for shards either.