Trader's Canyon

[Fiona]

Great job on the first post, Thuban. It's nice and clear and easy to follow.

 

I wonder on the method for determining prices (over/under populated kicker, fixed price or drop rate) whether it would be best to let TJ decide which is the best method since he does know how the ratios are coded. I would be fine with that.

 

 

I like the price set for old holidays. It forces us to make careful choices on what we save up points for. We won't be able to afford more than 4 holidays each year and that at the expense of buying prizes, hybrids or regular breeds. Even with someone grabbing every bonus for blockers that they can they'll still have to make choices.

 

 

 

ETA: I would consider that if shards ever do become tradeable (which I don't support either at this time) that we have a built in sink as the shards spent at the store don't continue to circulate among the users. They vanish into the system.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Fiona BlueFire

[Thuban]

Great job on the first post, Thuban. It's nice and clear and easy to follow.

Cyradis4 and mo7 get all of the credit on that front. Those two did an amazing job getting it all spelled out and pretty. I wondered about adding in color coding to help make different parts stand out a bit better, but i know colors bother some people. It is big enough though that it might help.

 

I wonder on the method for determining prices (over/under populated kicker, fixed price or drop rate) whether it would be best to let TJ decide which is the best method since he does know how the ratios are coded. I would be fine with that.

It is assumed that T.J. will edit anything he needs to, to make this work, if he chooses to use it. There are some aspects that are going to require him and his staff to work out elsewhere. Our aim was to provide as much information as possible to make it easier on them

 

I like the price set for old holidays. It forces us to make careful choices on what we save up points for. We won't be able to afford more than 4 holidays each year and that at the expense of buying prizes, hybrids or regular breeds. Even with someone grabbing every bonus for blockers that they can they'll still have to make choices.

 

That was the idea. C4 spent a pretty decent length of time working out example numbers to help make things more understandable. We don't want this replacing normal play, the goal is to enhance things.

 

ETA: I would consider that if shards ever do become tradeable (which I don't support either at this time) that we have a built in sink as the shards spent at the store don't continue to circulate among the users. They vanish into the system.

 

And this is the opening I needed to approach several things that came up in this thread that didn't make it to the first post. These are all things that could be fleshed out but not added until after the store has had the chance to stabilize.

• Nin's idea of selling eggs to the trader to get shards could stand to be fleshed out.
• Mini-raffles (with prizes including custom codes, shards, items and whatever T.J. and the staff decide are acceptable)
• Mini Games Again this is on T.J. and his staff to really play with, but I dont imagine that suggestions are a bad idea. Probably best to flesh those out in a separate thread though. I believe there is one hiding somewhere.

[Fiona]

If we sell eggs to the trader what happens to them? Do they vanish into the ether or do they become available to other players? Do they sell for the same prices as the other eggs offered by the trader or are they discounted? Do they keep their lineages if lineaged eggs are sold to the trader? Those are all questions that would have to be answered and they have pros and cons each way.

 

If they vanish into the ether then what does that do to the ratios? The easiest to sell would be blockers because those are very easy to come by. But wouldn't that just mean those breeds become even more underpopulated? It would be possible I suppose for eggs sold to the trader to go to the AP. If they're available to other players it seems like it would just become another form of AP, heavily loaded with blockers.

 

Selling for a discounted price seems attractive until you consider the possibility of people selling rares to the trader. If they can then be bought at a discount you risk undermining the price system already thought out. Especially if

 

Do they lose their lineage? If yes, then people could sell the messy metals that they breed and repurchase them at a discount as shiny new cave CB.

 

I think the idea of selling eggs to the trader has possibilities but is also fraught with pitfalls.

[Thuban]

If we sell eggs to the trader what happens to them? Do they vanish into the ether or do they become available to other players? Do they sell for the same prices as the other eggs offered by the trader or are they discounted? Do they keep their lineages if lineaged eggs are sold to the trader? Those are all questions that would have to be answered and they have pros and cons each way.

I would imagine that eggs sold to the trader would lose their lineages, since it would be ridiculous for them to track each and every one of their eggs lineages, but at least that way they can be "resold"...

 

however: I suppose another trader could be added specifically for selling lineaged eggs. I think if this were to happen though, that the trader would "buy" at a percentage of what the cb egg sells for, and then sell at a higher percentage (for the rp aspect of them turning a profit... to help keep currency in check?). This would help limit price gouging by users, i think? Any gen prize would still turn a slight profit, it could be a way to keep players from trading each other directly. The biggest problem here though is that if they arent selling fast enough, they would eventually die.

 

Of course, either way, caps would need set to prevent exploiting.

 

If they vanish into the ether then what does that do to the ratios? The easiest to sell would be blockers because those are very easy to come by. But wouldn't that just mean those breeds become even more underpopulated? It would be possible I suppose for eggs sold to the trader to go to the AP. If they're available to other players it seems like it would just become another form of AP, heavily loaded with blockers.

If they are to be deleted from the system, then it is really no different than how cave does thing currently (if not picked up, eggs are deleted?)

 

I think the idea of selling eggs to the trader has possibilities but is also fraught with pitfalls.

Yes. You can see why this is something that I think will have to be worked out to happen AFTER the store has had a chance to stabilize. Its going to take time to see how everything plays out before we can start expanding on that front I think.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thuban

[cyradis4]

If we sell eggs to the trader what happens to them? Do they vanish into the ether or do they become available to other players? Do they sell for the same prices as the other eggs offered by the trader or are they discounted? Do they keep their lineages if lineaged eggs are sold to the trader? Those are all questions that would have to be answered and they have pros and cons each way.

 

If they vanish into the ether then what does that do to the ratios? The easiest to sell would be blockers because those are very easy to come by. But wouldn't that just mean those breeds become even more underpopulated? It would be possible I suppose for eggs sold to the trader to go to the AP. If they're available to other players it seems like it would just become another form of AP, heavily loaded with blockers.

 

Selling for a discounted price seems attractive until you consider the possibility of people selling rares to the trader. If they can then be bought at a discount you risk undermining the price system already thought out. Especially if

 

Do they lose their lineage? If yes, then people could sell the messy metals that they breed and repurchase them at a discount as shiny new cave CB.

 

I think the idea of selling eggs to the trader has possibilities but is also fraught with pitfalls.

First, shards being tradeable:

Any shards traded in to the Canyon vanish from the system, so it acts as a sink. I immagine that the Bazaar, once its filled out, will soak up a lot of shards.

 

For eggs to the trader...

I'm... not quite sure about that. I'll think on it, but... For the most part I think that that'd be really hard to do so it couldn't be heavily abused. For instance, if it removes the eggs from the ratios (the over-populated ones, say, that are breeding poorly), to help them back in balance, who's to stop people from mass-breeding golds to turn in? Same with blockers... what's to prevent people from grabbing the AP eggs and trading them in, even though they might be "desirable"?

 

Now, I *could* see turning in *adults*. Say you are a user who only collects 2 of each kind but does want to help the ratios. You can raise blockers and turn the adults in to the Ecology Management Group, for "relocation". You'd gain an extra shard from turning it over. Another user can adopt it for a shard, and if its not adopted within 8 days it goes wild. The caveat would be, adults can only be "relocated" while in the Cirion moon they grew up in. So once Cirion goes new... You can't relocate that dragon. That gives you anywhere from an hour to 16 days, depending on when in the cycle it was, for you to decide. And once you adopt it, its with you until killed or released.

 

Essentially, I think that in order for eggs and hatchies being traded in to be limited enough to not abuse, the dragon *has* to grow up on someone's scroll first... because otherwise, there's no penalty for someone grabbing incu-eggs from the AP and turning them in. On the other hand, if the dragon has grown to adulthood first, there's no other reason to limit it. The user gets the 3 shards from raising it and 1 shard from turning it in. But! That shard from turning it in goes into the Dragon Raising total... So if you've already hit your cap of 100 per 8 days... you won't get any more.

 

 

 

Also, what hasn't been mentioned is what will be available as items. I imagine that a lot of the BSAs suggested so far could be done using potions. Identify, for instance. Or Heal. Which ones, and how many shards, and their limits, do people think would work?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Daydreamer09]

How would this work in terms of purchasing Halloweens? The OP talks about the 2 cb limit for holidays, except that halloweens do not have this same restriction.

[Thuban]

Original items suggested:

Potions with BSAs people want, that have no dragons tied to them yet (or havent been released) Simple potions include:

• Mass fog (24 hours)
• Fertility boost (either multi clutch or higher chance of specific breed)

More complicated potions and items include:

• Nests (allows for an extra, bred only slot that lasts from the time an egg is bred, until it grows to adult, is frozen, or is traded)
• Hatchy Incubate (not usable on previously incubated eggs that have hatched)

Others were mentioned, but I havent had enough coffee to think of them all yet.

 

 

 

Edit:

How would this work in terms of purchasing Halloweens? The OP talks about the 2 cb limit for holidays, except that halloweens do not have this same restriction.

 

If there isn't an in-game limit set, then the holiday limit does not apply. The price alone is restriction enough.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thuban

[cyradis4]

How would this work in terms of purchasing Halloweens? The OP talks about the 2 cb limit for holidays, except that halloweens do not have this same restriction.

That's not what it says. It says "all existing limits apply"... And since Halloweens are unlimited, if you have room and the shards you can get as many Halloweens as you want.

 

Basically, if you already have 2 CB Snow Angels, you can't get another Snow Angel from the Store. If you own 1 CB Holly, you can get 1 CB Holly from the store. If you have no CB Hollies, you can get 2. And so on.

 

Cheers!

C4

[Ruby Eyes]

Wow, nice update on the first post!

 

My thoughts:

- No points/shards at all for freezing hatchlings? Could be half the points of raising if the hatchling has gendered.

- The prices for dragons ... they're assuming that one spends all year long on DC, with no absense being longer than 7ish days (so you could gather all your points on the 8th day). At the same time, they're kind of ... unround? So rounding down to the nearest hundred or thousand would allow for a little vacation, or exams time, or whatever offtime a player needs without major "penalty."

(I know the numbers aren't fix yet, but 365 days will never properly divide into anything DC-related without a remainder ... [it's 5x73])

 

For "selling" adult dragons to an NPC: As far as I remember TJ saying, a dragon counts for the ratios for 1 year. Afterwards, you can release or kill them as you like without affecting the ratios at all. Maybe keeping dragons for that long could raise their value when selling to the AP? Then again, I'm not sure how happy a fully-grown dragon would be about being sold like that ...

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ruby Eyes

[olympe]

Love the new OP and agree with pretty much everything that's already "set in stone". I'm not so sure about selling bred eggs to a trader, but if these bred eggs would be returned to the us either as CB or as another breeding success - well, why not?

 

Ah, right. Because those of us with lots of rares could just breed them endlessly to generate money / shards. Not a good idea, after all.

 

One-use BSA potions for existing BSAs might be interesting for new players, as well as people with very limited scroll goals. And if someone wants to spend "money" on them, they may be my guests.

 

I like the idea of potions for suggested BSAs even better. Espeically if we also get a healing potion / medicine and a potion of protection, a portal of enhanced teleportation (for unlimited eggs/hatchlings, but limited uses only) and... well, I'm sure there are more.

[cyradis4]

Wow, nice update on the first post!

 

My thoughts:

- No points/shards at all for freezing hatchlings? Could be half the points of raising if the hatchling has gendered.

- The prices for dragons ... they're assuming that one spends all year long on DC, with no absense being longer than 7ish days (so you could gather all your points on the 8th day). At the same time, they're kind of ... unround? So rounding down to the nearest hundred or thousand would allow for a little vacation, or exams time, or whatever offtime a player needs without major "penalty."

(I know the numbers aren't fix yet, but 365 days will never properly divide into anything DC-related without a remainder ... [it's 5x73])

 

For "selling" adult dragons to an NPC: As far as I remember TJ saying, a dragon counts for the ratios for 1 year. Afterwards, you can release or kill them as you like without affecting the ratios at all. Maybe keeping dragons for that long could raise their value when selling to the AP? Then again, I'm not sure how happy a fully-grown dragon would be about being sold like that ...

I'm not sure I follow your meaning about being a major penalty? If it takes 52 weeks normally to get enough points to get a Prize, then if you take a week vacation it'll take 53 weeks. That's hardly a penalty! Or if you play slowly for a month, it may take you 55 weeks whereas it takes someone more active the normal 52 weeks. Also, the way its setup... you'd have a *hard* time getting all the points in one day, whereas it'd be easy to get over a week's time. You could do it, but... Personally I'd take the week and write it off and just take 1 extra week to earn the prize. If you are already waiting a year... what's one extra week? Or, you could trade for the bonus breeds to boost your total, or other things.

 

As for it being shown as "4,420" instead of say, "4,400"... While I too love round numbers (hence why its 100 in 8 days instead of 97 in 8 days), the prices for each breed will almost certainly fluctuate with time. Depending on how TJ does it with the ratios, we could find that the prices for Prizes also fluctuates (which I think it would). So they could end up being, say.... 4,400... + - 400 shards, depending on ratios.

 

For keeping the dragons.... I'm concerned about people who don't want lots of extra dragons on their scrolls, as they will be the only ones that use this often. Others will likely use it for a few dragons, like messy lineages and such. Its easy to re-home it right away, but it gets a lot more irritating if the dragon has to stick around on your scroll for a year. Or do you mean, the re-homed dragon could "volunteer" for a year at the EMA (Ecology Management Agency) before leaving for the wild?

 

The reason for the "within the moon" for re-homing was two-fold. And actually we'd have to add "never been bred" to it too. But the reasoning was:

- The longer a dragon lives somewhere, the more attached they become. They won't want to leave if they've been there a while

- To keep people from abusing it to get a chunk of points all at once, by depleting their scroll. Its as the dragons grow up... or not at all.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Ruby Eyes]

It was indeed shows as a fixed price of 1 year's worth of points, so no fluctuating there.

 

As for "within the moon", I totally don't even comprehend that. I was only giving note on how long a dragon counts for ratios (a tiny blip of information that I somehow found stuck between some dust-covered brain cells.) Getting rid of a dragon that just grew up ... might not have any effect on the ratios at all.

 

Sure, you can deplete your scroll - and get points up to the given limit, right? Hooray, points worth of 8 days earned, nothing else to do for a week.

And at some point, your scroll will be empty.

 

I probably missed more things, but I'm too tired to re-read up now. There was something else I wanted to mention and have forgotten already ... the dust is back on my few braincells

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ruby Eyes

[cyradis4]

It was indeed shows as a fixed price of 1 year's worth of points, so no fluctuating there.

 

As for "within the moon", I totally don't even comprehend that. I was only giving note on how long a dragon counts for ratios (a tiny blip of information that I somehow found stuck between some dust-covered brain cells.) Getting rid of a dragon that just grew up ... might not have any effect on the ratios at all.

The idea is that it would still count on the ratios... IF given up to the EMA. It would either go to another user (in which case its still in the ratios), or its "home" is the EMA until its a year old and it leaves the ratios.

 

The "within the moon" is just how long the grower has to re-home it. It needed a limit, and Cirion is controlling so much else about this so why not let it control that, too?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Ruby Eyes]

So you're suggesting "parking" a dragon for a year on what's essentially an AP for adults?

[cyradis4]

So you're suggesting "parking" a dragon for a year on what's essentially an AP for adults?

"Suggesting" is too strong a word, I'm not convinced its a good idea to trade in any egg / hatchie / dragon. But I am saying that if its desired (which I'm not sure it is), this might be the way to go about it.

 

And yea, thinking of it as an AP for adults for a year is probably the easiest way to think of it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Ruby Eyes]

I'm not a native English speaker, I thought it's a perfect word for what we're doing here!

 

Either way, I don't think this would be necessary as a way to clean up your scroll. If you can wait a whole year for the next holiday, you can also wait a year before you release an adult you don't want. And by raising it on your scroll, you already got shards/points for it anyway, so "selling" it - no matter how fast - would give extra points for something that's not really rewardable, in my eyes.

[olympe]

Have to agree with Ruby Eyes here. You get all the points you "deserve" by raising the dragon to adulthood. Adding more points as an alternative to releaseing seems stupid. Instead, just make dragons in the wilderness count towards the ratios.

[cyradis4]

Have to agree with Ruby Eyes here. You get all the points you "deserve" by raising the dragon to adulthood. Adding more points as an alternative to releaseing seems stupid. Instead, just make dragons in the wilderness count towards the ratios.

My personal preference is to NOT trade in any eggs / hatchies / dragons to the Traders. If you wanna get rid of it, send it to the AP or trade it.

 

This whole sub-topic came from the idea of trading in eggs for points, and that's too open to abuse.

 

So! Who wants to brainstorm ideas for items? Thu's ideas sound like a good start.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

I like the idea of potions for suggested BSAs even better. Espeically if we also get a healing potion / medicine and a potion of protection, a portal of enhanced teleportation (for unlimited eggs/hatchlings, but limited uses only) and... well, I'm sure there are more.

Quoting myself here since I'm too lazy to type it up again.

Bottle of light fog? (Will allow you to view the lineage link of an egg/hatchi and to use actions like teleport on it, but the egg/hatchi will appear fogged for all other purposes.)

[Ruby Eyes]

Remember when we mixed potions in order to temp-change dragons' appearance? Those would be funny potions to purchase, even if the effect lasts only 1 day, and the art exists already!

 

@olympe: sounds like a travel insurance potion

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ruby Eyes

[olympe]

Well, we could also ask for Halloween or Christmas costumes, which could be recycled from the dress-up events.

[Thuban]

At this time, I would like to keep this thread locked down to fleshing out specific ideas one at a time, to make it easier to keep the first post updated: For the moment, I would like to focus on items.

• What items do you guys want to see made available?
  • What BSAs should have a potion form?
  • What silly items might be desired? (Things like dress up potions and whatnot go here)
  • What is a useful item that wouldnt be covered by BSA potions? (For example, nests, which could provide an extra breed only egg slot that lasts until the dragon grows, is traded or is frozen.)
• What items should be avoided?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thuban

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Probably the smallest of all feedback you'll get, but perhaps Trader's Cavern would be a more fitting name? Canyon implies, well, a canyon, while cavern is more in fitting with DC's love of caves.

[Thuban]

Probably the smallest of all feedback you'll get, but perhaps Trader's Cavern would be a more fitting name? Canyon implies, well, a canyon, while cavern is more in fitting with DC's love of caves.

Canyons have a tendency to have caves, and I have a feeling there will end up being different "caverns" or caves for the individual traders, based on which ones make the cut.

 

It was a big enough step convincing me to change the name in the first place.. lol

[Daydreamer09]

What BSAs should have a potion form?

What silly items might be desired? (Things like dress up potions and whatnot go here)

BSAs:

-A very expensive form of incubate which would incubate all eggs on a scroll.

-Earthquake (not mentioned in OP) and a singular form which would target a single egg rather than an entire scroll.

-Enrage/Pacify potions. Allow the user to skip the prerequisites to change an Aegis' forms.

-Teleport (unmentioned in OP)

- Summon...? Mimics the 3 dragons needed to summon. Possibly requires 3 different potions to cast?

 

Silly Items:

-De-aging potion. Makes adults appear with hatchling sprites for a temporary amount of time

-Mind reading potion: Generates random, comical thoughts from chosen creatures. Cheese, paper, dinos and chickens would work with this.

-Dragon Grooming supplies (Maybe makes sprites sparkle when used?)

-Hatchling toys

-A hired minstrel (acts like a background jukebox for the user, plays soundtracks like the ones from Jolly Follies)

Edited April 4, 2016 by Daydreamer09