ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

[Amazon_warrior]

From various things winners have posted, it's not them trying to get all kinds of things that end up creating endless lists, it's pressure from other users PMing them asking about getting on their lists that results in the endless lists and pressure to keep breeding more shiny eggs. This is especially true of people newer to DC. They want to make everyone happy. You can't lay that on the prize winners. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of all the users PMing them for a spot on their lists.

That *is* a factor, alas. Even if you're somewhat used to DC and aware of the fuss surrounding Prizes, the pressure can be overwhelming and it can be really hard to say "no". Which is what I tried to stress in the help thread I wrote. :/

[kerrikins]

They don't have to turn them into egg factories to fulfill lists THEY have made. They can simply not breed them, or breed a few to gift, or breed them all to the AP.

But often it's the prize winners themselves that try to turn them into egg factories in order to 'buy' the things they couldn't get before.

 

But this is a thread talking about multiclutch, which in effect WOULD turn them into egg factories. The choice would be 'breed and multiclutch' or 'don't breed', which is hardly fair.

 

That's why I'm only in favour of this if it's a BSA or something they can choose...

 

I don't think TJ would have meant that; I don't think he foresaw it. Winning the Lotto is one thing - it runs out eventually. Winning the royal mint is quite another.

 

The value of the prizes does go down over time, though.

Edited January 4, 2015 by kerrikins

[Amazon_warrior]

But this is a thread talking about multiclutch, which in effect WOULD turn them into egg factories. The choice would be 'breed and multiclutch' or 'don't breed', which is hardly fair.

It is not a compelling or persuasive proposition, no. Saying "you HAVE to do it OUR way or not at all!" is only likely to make people dig their toes in. It certainly has that effect on me.

 

 

That's why I'm only in favour of this if it's a BSA or something they can choose...

Would be fine with this, would probably use it. If I had issues with controlling every one of ANY of my dragons' offspring, I would never breed at Holiday time. But I *do* breed during Holiday seasons, including Luckiest Catch, in the full knowledge that I won't be able to control the fate of extra eggs. Having a small number of dragons (and I would apply this to *any* dragon I own) singled out for special treatment because people feel it necessary to strong-arm me into sending more offspring into the system? No. Nope. No way.

 

 

The value of the prizes does go down over

time, though.

Yes, definitely. *pokes sadly at the unloved 3G Tinsel hatchie on her scroll*

[Torkie10]

The value of prizes do go down over time, true. Though I still haven't been able to find many 3gs on the market for anything other than bloodswaps and multiple CB metals. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.

 

I understand and agree with Amazon's point—it should be optional. Having multiclutch as a BSA makes it very optional and usable on all dragons, which is useful in its own right.

 

 

[Tawanda001]

I meant that it's not ALL this or ALL that, it's a combination of things. Not just 'greedy prize owners' vs 'greedy masses'. Both side have had a hand in it.

I don't think multi clutches turn them into egg factories, that happens when they are bred consistently in order to fulfill list or 'sell' eggs. If the owners didn't feel a need to breed for the list would they feel so much pressure to breed, breed, breed?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Tawanda001

[cyradis4]

I don't understand this. Everyone had the same chance to win the raffle that the winners did, it's not as though they had an unfair advantage. I don't see how that justifies turning their dragons into egg factories for the rest of DC... It's supposed to be something for the winner to enjoy, not something where they feel an obligation to churn out eggs as fast as they can to satiate the people who didn't win.

 

I'm also still stuck on the fact that it's going to be the fast clickers who get the eggs that go to the AP, which wouldn't even help the people who most on here are probably thinking about.

I don't support mutli-clutching just for prizes.

 

As for my view.... Too many times, prize winners in these threads (those who post) fall into one of 2 categories:

1. Sure, lets spread the joy!

2. NO! That would devalue my prize!

 

Nope, I have no sympathy. They own an exclusive rare (that is one of 6 exclusives, and 1 of the 6 prettiest sprites in the cave). They can do what they want with it, and many of them choose not to breed that exclusive for anyone else.

 

And you know what? An increasing number of CB Prize owners choose NOT to breed their prizes for anyone other than themselves. The last 2 years, an increasing number of CB Prizes are completely unknown, which means that if they are breeding, the lines aren't being traded. So in addition to normal attrition through users leaving, more and more people are choosing to keep these beautiful exclusives to themselves.

 

If a new Prize breed is released this year (as many are expecting), then how long will it be, until CB Gold Tinsels, with fewer than 20 active CBs, goes extinct? How long until the only way to create a pretty lineage with a Gold Tinsel will be through deadlines? Before last year, CB Gold Tinsels did hover on the edge of extinction.

 

Why should I have sympathy for less than 0.4% of the DC userbase (yes, based on the number of Christmas trees vs the number of prizes that year), who can control SIX exclusive dragon sprites and then want to complain because people are contacting them? Because they don't want to do anything to make their dragon less exclusive? Because they don't want anything interfering with their money-printer?

 

If you think you have a snow-balls chance to win the raffle, think again. Every year its the same, "we all have a chance to win", and its companion "if I win", which to me only seems to get people's hopes up. The userbase is too big, the prize pool too small, the odds of winning are on par with winning the state lotto. Something is seriously not-right in that department, and last year's raffle brought some of it to light. But no one is allowed to talk about it. I wonder why? *heavy sarcasm*

 

Anyway, no. I have no sympathy for lotto winners, and their travails. If they are being bothered too much, then they can report the harasser to the mods, like I and everyone else does. They chose their fates, fully knowing what would happen.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Prince_Xanthius]

From various things winners have posted, it's not them trying to get all kinds of things that end up creating endless lists, it's pressure from other users PMing them asking about getting on their lists that results in the endless lists and pressure to keep breeding more shiny eggs. This is especially true of people newer to DC. They want to make everyone happy. You can't lay that on the prize winners. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of all the users PMing them for a spot on their lists.

Yes this is so. It is not in any way the Prize Winners fault, and I do not think that the majority of them are selfish at all. But in the same vein the need to control EVERY egg seems essentially selfish to me? idk I personally don't care too much what happens to my babies once they leave my scroll, as long as they don't die so I admit that it is up for debate.

 

I think that alleviating the value/increase number of low gens would do something to remove the pressure on winners- there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the demands of players who are being greedy and demanding of prize winners an egg.

 

The value of the prizes does go down over time, though.

 

But so slowly. They dominate the market for a very VERY long time. It is beginning to right itself now, with 4 years of tinsels and 2 years of shimmers behind us. If another species is introduced we'll go backwards.

 

I do not begrudge winners using their 2G to buy things they wouldn't otherwise get. They will ALWAYS no matter what we do be worth multiple CB metals. But I just don't think they should demand (and I mean demand in an economic sense, not in a prize winners are selfish sense) as high a price as they currently do, and I don't think we should be protecting the value of the low gens because 'what about the winners??' THEY HAVE A CB NO ONE ELSE CAN GET. THAT is their prize. And for the most part I think the winners understand that fact.

 

I can see your point about the multiclutching turning them into 'egg factories' but at the same time the likelihood of multiple shinies is relatively low but it would INCREASE the weekly chance of 2G produced? So more shinies = quicker moving lists = more chance to breed to the AP/gifting threads etc. without sacrificing the owners desire to buy things they would not otherwise get/gift to friends etc. More supply = less demand.

[kerrikins]

I meant that it's not ALL this or ALL that, it's a combination of things.

I don't think multi clutches turn them into egg factories, that happens when they are bred consistently in order to fulfill list or 'sell' eggs. If the owners didn't feel a need to breed for the list would they feel so much pressure to breed, breed, breed?

My point is mostly that if we take dragons that normally spawn one egg and make them spawn between two to four, that's pretty much making them churn eggs out faster, in a 'factory' like fashion. Whether they have a list or not has nothing to do with it - they could simply be breeding for themselves out of pure enjoyment. I do that with my own shimmers, which are higher gen.

 

To cyradis4: To be honest, I don't care at all what some CB owners do with their dragons. I don't care if they do breed or don't breed, I don't care if they keep them all on their scroll or give them out. It's like in RL where people win the lottery and some give it all away and some hoard. It's the nature of life and it's the nature of games. Lots of people hoard cb golds and silvers and blusangs and coppers and nobody says boo.

 

The thing that's going on here is the value that the community itself is placing on the lower gens. Let's be real, this isn't about the sprite in general, because given enough time, most people can get the sprite. It's about having as low a gen as possible and that's why people are so bitter about CB prize owners not breeding their dragons - after all, it's not as though *all* of them choose not to breed at all.

 

I guess to me, this whole argument boils down to people saying "but it's not fair, we want low gens asap!" and I don't think that that's something that should be catered to. I'm certainly not willing to lump the extremely generous, kind owners in with a few 'bad eggs', so to speak.

 

Your feelings on the raffle in itself are something else entirely, so I'm not going to address that.

Edited January 4, 2015 by kerrikins

[cyradis4]

My point is mostly that if we take dragons that normally spawn one egg and make them spawn between two to four, that's pretty much making them churn eggs out faster, in a 'factory' like fashion. Whether they have a list or not has nothing to do with it - they could simply be breeding for themselves out of pure enjoyment. I do that with my own shimmers, which are higher gen.

 

To cyradis4: To be honest, I don't care at all what some CB owners do with their dragons. I don't care if they do breed or don't breed, I don't care if they keep them all on their scroll or give them out. It's like in RL where people win the lottery and some give it all away and some hoard. It's the nature of life and it's the nature of games. Lots of people hoard cb golds and silvers and blusangs and coppers and nobody says boo.

 

The thing that's going on here is the value that the community itself is placing on the lower gens. Let's be real, this isn't about the sprite in general, because given enough time, most people can get the sprite. It's about having as low a gen as possible and that's why people are so bitter about CB prize owners not breeding their dragons - after all, it's not as though *all* of them choose not to breed at all.

 

I guess to me, this whole argument boils down to people saying "but it's not fair, we want low gens asap!" and I don't think that that's something that should be catered to. I'm certainly not willing to lump the extremely generous, kind owners in with a few 'bad eggs', so to speak.

 

Your feelings on the raffle in itself are something else entirely, so I'm not going to address that.

The problem I have with the Prizes is the nature of the prizes: 6 of the most beautiful sprites, out of something like 150 total sprites in the cave, which can't be used for lineage projects unless you are:

1. Extraordinarily luck to win one (and the number handed out is deliberately chosen to make sure that an infinitesimal percentage of the userbase has one)

2. Capable of catching many metals regularly

3. like deadlines or like stairsteps and happen to trade for one from the right partner

 

That, in a nutshell, is why I dislike the concept of the raffles so much.

 

And fuzzbucket, you are taking my post out of context. You sending prizes to the AP would be intentional and would happen regardless of whether or not there was multi-clutching, so adding this would not change what you would do in the least. No, Prize Multi-clutching would add effectively no extra 2nd gen Shiny Prizes to the AP.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Syphoneira]

Yes this is so. It is not in any way the Prize Winners fault, and I do not think that the majority of them are selfish at all. But in the same vein the need to control EVERY egg seems essentially selfish to me? idk I personally don't care too much what happens to my babies once they leave my scroll, as long as they don't die so I admit that it is up for debate.

 

I think that alleviating the value/increase number of low gens would do something to remove the pressure on winners- there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the demands of players who are being greedy and demanding of prize winners an egg.

 

 

 

But so slowly. They dominate the market for a very VERY long time. It is beginning to right itself now, with 4 years of tinsels and 2 years of shimmers behind us. If another species is introduced we'll go backwards.

 

I do not begrudge winners using their 2G to buy things they wouldn't otherwise get. They will ALWAYS no matter what we do be worth multiple CB metals. But I just don't think they should demand (and I mean demand in an economic sense, not in a prize winners are selfish sense) as high a price as they currently do, and I don't think we should be protecting the value of the low gens because 'what about the winners??' THEY HAVE A CB NO ONE ELSE CAN GET. THAT is their prize. And for the most part I think the winners understand that fact.

 

I can see your point about the multiclutching turning them into 'egg factories' but at the same time the likelihood of multiple shinies is relatively low but it would INCREASE the weekly chance of 2G produced? So more shinies = quicker moving lists = more chance to breed to the AP/gifting threads etc. without sacrificing the owners desire to buy things they would not otherwise get/gift to friends etc. More supply = less demand.

 

 

 

 

I would like to point out that not all CB Prize winners demand a lot for their dragons - a major factor seems to be that with so few CBs and such slow-moving lists, those seeking 2nd gens and who can, will offer as much as they can, in an attempt to get on lists which are too-often full and not moving to make new spaces.

 

This seems to have created the inflationary pressure leading up to scroll-fulls of CB Golds being offered, rather than initial requests from CB Prize owners.

 

Then owners feel pressured because so many people are contacting their very tiny group, hoping to get on lists which aren't moving, and onto which no further offer, however extravagant, can likely be squeezed.

 

This really seems to be turning into an 'us versus them' situation from the viewpoint of some owners - but it's the circumstances which have created the problem, and I don't entirely understand why attempts to alleviate the pressure on all concerned sometimes elicits such strongly negative responses.

 

 

I would also like to point out that we are all here to collect dragons and that polite requests regarding potential trades are generally not considered to be 'greedy demands'.

 

While there certainly are some who can be rude and demanding, the effect of ?possibly thousands? of players hopefully contacting what - ?a hundred or so currently active and known CB Prize owners? (doing a lot of wild and generalized guessing as to numbers here, hopefully someone can step in with more accurate numbers,) would be a little mindboggling, although I seriously doubt that most people intend to create a problem, it's just the numbers.

 

However, once people have finished their lists, they do at least have the option of closing them down and playing with whatever babies they chose to produce.

 

Most longer-term players probably have all had lists which have run years before they've had any opportunity to do what they've been wanting to do with various dragons, but eventually, one must grit one's teeth and learn to say 'sorry, can't be done', even if you do feel badly about it.

 

Because when you make promises to people which result in long lists and pressure often predominately self-generated in trying to pump eggs out of non-cooperative dragons, you've literally done it to yourself, and you are the only one who can say, "well, 3 years (or whatever) of waiting to achieve my own breeding plans (or whatever) is enough. Now, once the rest of this list is finished sometime next year, it's finally, really, honestly-this-time my turn" - and stick to it. (And good luck with that last part, lol.)

 

Lucky me, most of my dragons aren't even desirable anymore - I'm freeeee!

[MedievalMystic]

@ C4...Your entire post just oozes sour grapes and bitterness.

 

 

 

They can do what they want with it, and many of them choose not to breed that exclusive for anyone else.

 

Yes. It's their choice. As it should be. People want it? I have no sympathy.

 

And you know what? An increasing number of CB Prize owners choose NOT to breed their prizes for anyone other than themselves. The last 2 years, an increasing number of CB Prizes are completely unknown, which means that if they are breeding, the lines aren't being traded. So in addition to normal attrition through users leaving, more and more people are choosing to keep these beautiful exclusives to themselves.

 

Yes. It's their choice. As it should be. People want it? I have no sympathy.

 

 

If a new Prize breed is released this year (as many are expecting), then how long will it be, until CB Gold Tinsels, with fewer than 20 active CBs, goes extinct? How long until the only way to create a pretty lineage with a Gold Tinsel will be through deadlines? Before last year, CB Gold Tinsels did hover on the edge of extinction.

 

If it goes extinct, it goes extinct. Oh, the masses wanted it? I have no sympathy.

 

Why should I have sympathy for less than 0.4% of the DC userbase (yes, based on the number of Christmas trees vs the number of prizes that year), who can control SIX exclusive dragon sprites and then want to complain because people are contacting them? Because they don't want to do anything to make their dragon less exclusive? Because they don't want anything interfering with their money-printer?

 

Why should they consider and have sympathy for you? And why shouldn't they complain about being harassed? Who here has the right to dog anyone? That's considered begging on other sites and isn't allowed. It shouldn't be allowed here either.

 

If you think you have a snow-balls chance to win the raffle, think again. Every year its the same, "we all have a chance to win", and its companion "if I win", which to me only seems to get people's hopes up. The userbase is too big, the prize pool too small, the odds of winning are on par with winning the state lotto. Something is seriously not-right in that department, and last year's raffle brought some of it to light. But no one is allowed to talk about it. I wonder why? *heavy sarcasm*

 

The only thing 'not right' about it that I can see is that you haven't won it yet.

 

Anyway, no. I have no sympathy for lotto winners, and their travails. If they are being bothered too much, then they can report the harasser to the mods, like I and everyone else does. They chose their fates, fully knowing what would happen.

 

So because they won, fairly, through no fault of their own, and others didn't, they deserve to be stoned, by God, by the seething, jealous masses! Riiiight. I wouldn't give you an egg if you paid me real money to because of that attitude alone. I don't believe in rewarding lousy attitudes or behavior.

 

Cheers!

MM

Edited January 4, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Prince_Xanthius]

I agree with more or less everything you said Syphoneira. Well, except that I DO think those people who contact winners in the first few days (hours!) ARE being greedy and demanding. Polite requests for trade later down the track are something else, but you are right a lot of it IS simply numbers.

 

I never said it was the Prize Winners demanding high prices, I must stress this - it is the site as a whole. The fact that there are so few 2Gs produced mean that people offer insane prices. If you have one person offering you a couple of CB silver, and another offering you 10, most people would take 10. Of course they would. I want to devalue 2G so that people do not think offering these huge numbers of CB is reasonable. And the best way to do that is to increase their population, which means making them breed true more often, or multiclutching. Or increasing winners numbers to a more reasonable level which is I think the best solution, but TJ seems against that.

 

[whitebaron]

I still don't get how punishing the CB prize owners, or prize owners in general, will help the others to get more prizes?

 

btw: The person breeding the prize is the only one who can say for sure when it was bred, so it is quite easy to notify friends to catch your eggs for you (or for themselves) from the ap. this happens with hollies all the time, do you really think it would be different for prizes?

[AnanoKimi]

 

 

 

I would like to point out that not all CB Prize winners demand a lot for their dragons - a major factor seems to be that with so few CBs and such slow-moving lists, those seeking 2nd gens and who can, will offer as much as they can, in an attempt to get on lists which are too-often full and not moving to make new spaces.

 

This seems to have created the inflationary pressure leading up to scroll-fulls of CB Golds being offered, rather than initial requests from CB Prize owners.

 

Then owners feel pressured because so many people are contacting their very tiny group, hoping to get on lists which aren't moving, and onto which no further offer, however extravagant, can likely be squeezed.

 

This really seems to be turning into an 'us versus them' situation from the viewpoint of some owners - but it's the circumstances which have created the problem, and I don't entirely understand why attempts to alleviate the pressure on all concerned sometimes elicits such strongly negative responses.

 

 

I would also like to point out that we are all here to collect dragons and that polite requests regarding potential trades are generally not considered to be 'greedy demands'.

 

While there certainly are some who can be rude and demanding, the effect of ?possibly thousands? of players hopefully contacting what - ?a hundred or so currently active and known CB Prize owners? (doing a lot of wild and generalized guessing as to numbers here, hopefully someone can step in with more accurate numbers,) would be a little mindboggling, although I seriously doubt that most people intend to create a problem, it's just the numbers.

 

However, once people have finished their lists, they do at least have the option of closing them down and playing with whatever babies they chose to produce.

 

Most longer-term players probably have all had lists which have run years before they've had any opportunity to do what they've been wanting to do with various dragons, but eventually, one must grit one's teeth and learn to say 'sorry, can't be done', even if you do feel badly about it.

 

Because when you make promises to people which result in long lists and pressure often predominately self-generated in trying to pump eggs out of non-cooperative dragons, you've literally done it to yourself, and you are the only one who can say, "well, 3 years (or whatever) of waiting to achieve my own breeding plans (or whatever) is enough. Now, once the rest of this list is finished sometime next year, it's finally, really, honestly-this-time my turn" - and stick to it. (And good luck with that last part, lol.)

 

Lucky me, most of my dragons aren't even desirable anymore - I'm freeeee!

Can I be honest and say you so eloquently make your points to the point where you are seemingly reading my mind and wording my thoughts in a far better choice of words than I could ever hope to come up with.

 

That being said, this post really just encompasses everything that this thread has meant to me. Yes it might seem selfish that if my Myst breeds 4 eggs, I'd want control over all of them, but that is simply because there are so many people I want to/need to breed for that honestly continuously having only control over 1 egg every blue moon of a successful tinsel breeding is so stressful and a pain. I feel absolutely guilty being inactive for even a few days because I need to be breeding to complete the tiny list I managed to amass in an attempt to please a small few way back when.

 

Those people screaming "This isnt fair! Prize breeders are gonna be selfish pricks who if given control of all of their multi clutch are only gonna use them for trade" Don't really know us... That statement you made is what YOU would do if you had control over your multi clutch of prize eggs. Don't throw me and the other number of honest prize breeders doing our best to please you by breeding our prizes non stop and stressing ourselves for people we don't know, have never met and might never speak to again.

 

I could do what quite a few other prize winners have dont and decide to not even touch Myst. I could send everyone wanting a 2nd gen of my prize to go look else where, but I want to spread his 2nd gen love as I'm sure many prize owners out there do. So instead of looking at your own selfish views try considering that some of us are just really tired, really stressed, and looking to do what we can to please a giant group of people we dont even know on a website where we dont even know your name. Keep in mind that we are aiming to please a groupd of people that we may never speak to again. Trying to please a group of people who are also trying to use us for their own lineage, trading, and collection needs. Just... keep that in mind next time you bash me or another prize owner for wanting to be able to give away all 4 eggs to people in a list that could be 6-50 people long who have been waiting for weeks, months, years for a baby we've been trying to breed for just as long...

[cyradis4]

MedievalMystic:

I neither want nor need sympathy from them. My NOT having it for them has nothing to do with their having it for me.

 

I do not contact prize winners right after they win. And the only times I have ever contacted them is looking to see if they want to trade for kin, or when they posted saying that they wanted offers.

 

Therefore, by definition, I am NOT part of the problem prize owners face.

 

But having to deal with the fall out from said exclusives is something I, and everyone else, has to face. And dealing with its consequences also. And having any of the 6 CB Prize sprites go extinct in CB version would lead to a lot of problems.

 

As for sour grapes, yep, you bet! I dislike prize time, I dislike how people get their hopes up then when they express their (justifiable and predictable) sadness over it, how people jump all over them. How the entire trading forum revolves around PRIZES PRIZES PRIZES!!! How people put together these huge gobs of dragons we could have traded each other.... but they won't because they are holding out in the slimmest of hope for that elusive 2nd gen Prize. How further exclusives released means that many more breeds that can't be freely used in a breeding and collecting game.

 

Yep. I don't care for exclusives, and their effect on the game. Not one bit. And I would really like some way to reduce how they effect the game.

 

C4.

[MessengerDragon]

You sending prizes to the AP would be intentional and would happen regardless of whether or not there was multi-clutching, so adding this would not change what you would do in the least. No, Prize Multi-clutching would add effectively no extra 2nd gen Shiny Prizes to the AP.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Not necessarily. Some people gift and trade their 2nd gens to specific people. This means they i]don't[/i] send them to the AP. (Some people decide to do this because they have specific requirements, like naming, continuing the line etc. which they want to be followed) This means that while they wouldn't throw away an egg into the AP, multiclutching would pretty much force them to abandon some if they decide to breed.

[Tawanda001]

I still don't get how punishing the CB prize owners, or prize owners in general, will help the others to get more prizes?

 

btw: The person breeding the prize is the only one who can say for sure when it was bred, so it is quite easy to notify friends to catch your eggs for you (or for themselves) from the ap. this happens with hollies all the time, do you really think it would be different for prizes?

I always suspected that was how some people manage to 'find' so many nice holly lines in the AP, but jeez that's just once a year. Do you really think all but the most hardcore prize owners would go to that much trouble every time they breed their prize? ...and I ask that in all sincerity

[MedievalMystic]

As for sour grapes, yep, you bet! I dislike prize time, I dislike how people get their hopes up then when they express their (justifiable and predictable) sadness over it, how people jump all over them. How the entire trading forum revolves around PRIZES PRIZES PRIZES!!! How people put together these huge gobs of dragons we could have traded each other.... but they won't because they are holding out in the slimmest of hope for that elusive 2nd gen Prize. How further exclusives released means that many more breeds that can't be freely used in a breeding and collecting game.

 

Yep. I don't care for exclusives, and their effect on the game. Not one bit. And I would really like some way to reduce how they effect the game.

 

I have sympathy for people that are disappointed and express it when they don't win a prize. There's a huge difference between expressing disappointment, which is normal, and what I see going on in the forums. I have much, much more sympathy for prize winners, who want to, God forbid, express any excitement at the win, or, God help them, want to simply talk about the dragon! No, that behavior must be stopped and stomped into the ground! Prize winners might hurt people's feelings even more by doing something as normal as expressing their happiness at the win and we can't have that now, on top of them personally making everyone miserable! I've seen those 'disappointed' people you mentioned turn into a mob of rabid hyenas and rip winners to shreds and actually try and make them feel badly about the win, like somehow they really are personally responsible for the misery of all the sore losers and deserve to be treated badly. Then my own sympathy for their 'disappointment' vanishes into thin air. I don't give a rat's behind how disappointed people are, they have no right whatsoever to that kind of bad behavior. No excuses. And just because you and some others don't like exclusives doesn't mean the raffle, and other people's enjoyment of it, should be tossed in the toilet. Instead of changing the raffle, maybe people should change their attitudes.

Edited January 5, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[AnanoKimi]

MedievalMystic:

I neither want nor need sympathy from them. My NOT having it for them has nothing to do with their having it for me.

 

I do not contact prize winners right after they win. And the only times I have ever contacted them is looking to see if they want to trade for kin, or when they posted saying that they wanted offers.

 

Therefore, by definition, I am NOT part of the problem prize owners face.

 

But having to deal with the fall out from said exclusives is something I, and everyone else, has to face. And dealing with its consequences also. And having any of the 6 CB Prize sprites go extinct in CB version would lead to a lot of problems.

 

As for sour grapes, yep, you bet! I dislike prize time, I dislike how people get their hopes up then when they express their (justifiable and predictable) sadness over it, how people jump all over them. How the entire trading forum revolves around PRIZES PRIZES PRIZES!!! How people put together these huge gobs of dragons we could have traded each other.... but they won't because they are holding out in the slimmest of hope for that elusive 2nd gen Prize. How further exclusives released means that many more breeds that can't be freely used in a breeding and collecting game.

 

Yep. I don't care for exclusives, and their effect on the game. Not one bit. And I would really like some way to reduce how they effect the game.

 

C4.

Actually you are part of the problem with that attitude. Why? You shoot down suggestions like this that could posibly help you in your own selfish little lineage wants because me and any other active prize breeders would be able to produce eggs a little quicker, finish lists a little faster, and gift a little easier to mean little buggers like you. We would be able to please despite how insensitive you seem to be towards us. Despite your terrible post about how you have no sympathy for prize breeders, I would still gladly breed you a baby tinsel of your choice just because I'm nice like that. Just because I actually have some empathy for users like you who have little access to gen 2's of the mates you want. Just because I know that its as hard to get as it is hard to breed.

 

So I'm sorry you feel so sour towards winners doing their best trying to please you and many other with no reason other than the fact that we want to. I never demanded anything of the small amount of people on my list. Everything they offered they offered on their own. Hell I breed Myst for free on holidays as a raffle. Once the few people I've promised eggs to get what they've been hoping for so long I will continue to glomp users with my 2nd gen babies as best as possible. If at some point in time I decide to trade off a 2nd gen for what I want I have that right as you have every right to trade off something rare for what you want.

 

I'm sorry your lack of luck has made you so bitter to a group of people who won by sheer circumstance... I didnt ask for Myst, but I am glad I have him. I can make people happy. I can give people something nice, and every so often I can get something nice in exchange. I am so sorry my fortune which I am doing my best to use to make people happy as I'm sure a good number of other prize owners are trying to do makes you so terribly angry.

 

In the end I would like some form of semi controllable multiclutch for those of us looking to gift, but just multiclutch in general would be ideal. The ability to give a random AP stalker a chance at a 2nd Gen would be great. My only concern is AP Stalkers faster than you're average user. They will get most of AP 2nd gens and monatize them. There is a con to everything but this idea still helps in spreadin some 2nd gen prize love.

Edited January 5, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[DarkEternity]

I always suspected that was how some people manage to 'find' so many nice holly lines in the AP, but jeez that's just once a year. Do you really think all but the most hardcore prize owners would go to that much trouble every time they breed their prize? ...and I ask that in all sincerity

Hollies are bumped to the top of the holiday wall. All bred prizes will be under the wall, it's theoretically possible to tell others when they're dropped and have them pick it up if you have, say, a spare 72 hours of straight hunting.

[cyradis4]

Not necessarily. Some people gift and trade their 2nd gens to specific people. This means they i]don't[/i] send them to the AP. (Some people decide to do this because they have specific requirements, like naming, continuing the line etc. which they want to be followed) This means that while they wouldn't throw away an egg into the AP, multiclutching would pretty much force them to abandon some if they decide to breed.

ONLY if their prize bred more than 1 Tinsels or Shimmer. Which was the point of the statement that both you AND Fuzz missed.... Its vanishingly unlikely that a Shimmer or Tinsel will produce TWO Shimmer / Tinsels in any given clutch.

 

So! If only 1 Tinsel or Shimmer is produced in any given clutch, how can the non-existent extra shiny go to the AP?

 

Personally, I prefer BSA / Opt-in multi-clutching for all dragons, and NOT just Prizes (why should THEY have all the fun, after all?). Let those who care about what happens to extras not use it, but let those who would rather either share or just don't care use it to help them with their own goals.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[CNR4806]

I have sympathy for people that are disappointed and express it when they don't win a prize. There's a huge difference between expressing disappointment, which is normal, and what I see going on in the forums. I have much, much more sympathy for prize winners, who, God forbid, express any excitement at the win, or, God help them, want to simply talk about the dragon! No, that behavior must be stopped! They might hurt people's feelings by doing something as normal as expressing their happiness at the win and we can't have that now! I've seen those 'disappointed' people you mentioned turn into a mob of rabid hyenas and rip winners to shreds and actually try and make them feel badly about the win, like somehow they're personally responsible for the personal misery of all the sore losers. Then my own sympathy for their 'disappointment' vanishes into thin air. I don't give a rat's behind how disappointed people are, they have no right whatsoever to that kind of bad behavior. No excuses. And just because you and some others don't like exclusives doesn't mean the raffle, and other people's enjoyment of it, should be tossed in the toilet. Instead of changing the raffle, maybe people should change their attitudes.

No one is seeking your or anyone's sympathy, in case you haven't noticed.

 

I never demanded anything of the small amount of people on my list. Everything they offered they offered on their own. Hell I breed Myst for free on holidays as a raffle. Once the few people I've promised eggs to get what they've been hoping for so long I will continue to glomp users with my 2nd gen babies as best as possible. If at some point in time I decide to trade off a 2nd gen for what I want I have that right as you have every right to trade off something rare for what you want.

 

I'm sorry your lack of luck has made you so bitter to a group of people who won by sheer circumstance... I didnt ask for Myst, but I am glad I have him. I can make people happy. I can give people something nice, and every so often I can get something nice in exchange. I am so sorry my fortune which I am doing my best to use to make people happy as I'm sure a good number of other prize owners are trying to do makes you so terribly angry.

It's really great to know that you and some other prize owners out there are doing something nice on your own initiative, but the current system on a whole, where an extreme minority of players has the entire trade market at their mercy, needs to crash and burn. Hard.

[cyradis4]

In the end I would like some form of semi controllable multiclutch for those of us looking to gift, but just multiclutch in general would be ideal. The ability to give a random AP stalker a chance at a 2nd Gen would be great. My only concern is once AP Stalkers faster than you're average user. They will get most of AP 2nd gens and monatize them. There is a con to everything but this idea still helps in spreadin some 2nd gen prize love.

How am I shooting down this suggestion? I support choosable multi-clutching, and not this "just for prize" stuff. You are obviously taking statements I've made out of context.

 

Also, what other thread that would help prizes have I not supported? I'm sorry, but you are sorely mistaken about me if you think THAT!

 

I'm not sour about the winners. I'm sour about the tiny number of exclusives, sour about everything in trades revolving around them, revolving around something that simply isn't available. You and every other Prize winner can try as hard as you can, and you still won't make a dent in the demand (and since I don't try to trade for 2nd gen Prizes, or even really prizes at all, I'm not even part of that demand). And we both know that many Prize winners don't even try.

 

I've only quoted this last bit, because if you'd actually READ my posts and not just vented your spleen at me, you'd know that in almost every post, I've written that I support general multi-clutching or BSA multi-clutching. We don't disagree.

 

C4.

[Tawanda001]

Hollies are bumped to the top of the holiday wall. All bred prizes will be under the wall, it's theoretically possible to tell others when they're dropped and have them pick it up if you have, say, a spare 72 hours of straight hunting.

Never noticed that about hollies, need to pay more attention!

Did know that about prizes as I know someone who is quite adept at fishing out specific 2g and 3g kin from the AP, but it seems like an awful lot of bother for prizewinners and friends to go through, as the method is time consuming.

 

Cyradis, you're saying that there won't be spare 2gs because they have been overbred and rarely produce anymore, right? So if we got a new prize, not tied to existing prize ratios, do you think multi-clucthing would help? I know, not much chance of that happening, just speculating out loud.

 

edited because i can't type worth a hoot

Edited January 5, 2015 by Tawanda001

[AnanoKimi]

How am I shooting down this suggestion? I support choosable multi-clutching, and not this "just for prize" stuff. You are obviously taking statements I've made out of context.

 

Also, what other thread that would help prizes have I not supported? I'm sorry, but you are sorely mistaken about me if you think THAT!

 

I'm not sour about the winners. I'm sour about the tiny number of exclusives, sour about everything in trades revolving around them, revolving around something that simply isn't available. You and every other Prize winner can try as hard as you can, and you still won't make a dent in the demand (and since I don't try to trade for 2nd gen Prizes, or even really prizes at all, I'm not even part of that demand). And we both know that many Prize winners don't even try.

 

I've only quoted this last bit, because if you'd actually READ my posts and not just vented your spleen at me, you'd know that in almost every post, I've written that I support general multi-clutching or BSA multi-clutching. We don't disagree.

 

C4.

Then my apologies. My statement was mostly based on the more recent posts you have made which have seemed so negative over the idea of prizes multiclutching as well as the idea that all prize owners are greedy or deserve the pelt of hate we obtain. Again, my apologies.

 

I dont think multi clutching for other dragons, other than maybe metallics, is really necessary. With such a large userbase, their eggs are more than available and thus not realy a need. Now as I said for metallics and Prizes who are less cooperative then multi clutch would be ideal.