ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

[MedievalMystic]

Even Prize owners who keep lists and are open to requests can feel pressured, though. A gold shimmer winner from a year or two took on 60+ trade requests and promptly quit (no surprise there), other people who took on much smaller lists have had terrible luck and feel awful about it taking so long, other people want to share 2gs but just feel overwhelmed because there are so many people who want them and they can't help everyone...

 

All problems which really can't be solved unless either the amount of winners begins to increase drastically, or CB Prizes are released in the cave several years after their initial release. The only way to take off the pressure is to change the ridiculous 1 to several hundred ratio of prize winners to normal players. Would probably do a lot to balance the trade threads, too.

 

What you described, ADP, is the prize owners fault for biting off more than they could chew. 60 freaking trades?? That's crazy. If I won a Prize and decided to be generous, I'd open a thread and the first 5 people to post would get eggs as I got them. Then, when those first obligations were fulfilled, I'd ask for 5 more requests and so on. I would never drive myself crazy for the sake of the user base by taking 60 requests...that's a prize owner putting pressure on themselves and a recipe for disaster, imo.

 

I agree with you. I do think more Prize dragons should be handed out over all.

 

but you can't stop them from doing that in the first place.

 

No doubt. But if they do it enough, they should get mail banned and with each offense the ban gets longer. Pretty soon, they won't be PMing anybody.

 

 

And thanks for that link, Jazeki. I didn't even realize that existed. I'm very glad to know that's in place.

Edited January 6, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Fiona]

MM, do you know what happens when you do a revolving list like that? It never ends. You being to feel as though the people in the thread own your dragon because there is always more people wanting eggs than there are slots to fill and as soon as you clear one list there are more people jumping up to fill the next one.

 

That is precisely how I handled some of my alt shadow walkers at first. It got difficult and discouraging very fast. I can't blame new players for getting over their heads. They don't know. I'd been a player for several years and had no real idea. Lists sound like a good idea, but they're a trap.

[_Sin_]

I've been reading all those posts about "harassment" and I'm feeling quite puzzled. Considering that, based on the experience of previous prize winners, new prize winners know that they will receive tons of requests if they reveal themselves, why do they? Tell the world you won and the world and their sisters will contact you, if you don't want to be "harassed" can't you shut up?What am I missing here?

Or are we talking about drama prime donne: yes I want attention, yes, yes, but all of the sudden I'm so shy?

 

P.S. - Note that I didn't "harassed" or requested a thing from prize owners. And that I've no intention of starting any time soon.

Edited January 6, 2015 by _Sin_

[DarkEternity]

Why do Prize winners talk about feeling so much pressure?  If there's some rule in place preventing PMing them and pressuring them, which is what I'm talking about, then people are obviously ignoring it.

The exclusivity of the prize only contributes to the amount of pressuring that winners feel. Few people, for example, would request a widely distributed holiday dragon or a mint - because they are commonly available to the normal DC populace.

I've been reading all those posts about "harassment" and I'm feeling quite puzzled. Considering that, based on the experience of previous prize winners, new prize winners know that they will receive tons of requests if they reveal themselves, why do they? Tell the world you won and the world and their sisters will contact you, if you don't want to be "harassed" can't you shut up?What am I missing here?

Or are we talking about drama prime donne: yes I want attention, yes, yes, but all of the sudden I'm so shy?

If you choose to trade you need to attract offers which can only come if you tell people what you can breed.

 

If you choose to gift, people will question where the egg comes from.

 

Engaging in interaction results in potentially unwanted interaction unless you a social recluse.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DarkEternity

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Yahhh, if you win and don't want the deluge, the smartest thing is turning off your scroll username and not posting you won.

 

Although from what I've heard, simply posting your list is closed / you aren't taking requests right now is extremely effective. If you get a stray PM anyway, you can just delete during daily inbox cleaning.

 

Then again, the issue (as Fiona pointed out) might be people simply not knowing what's coming. Older players will know, yes, but newer players (and it seems a lot DO end up going to newer players)... don't know how to handle it, boom comes the flood, and then they quit and there's even more pressure on the winners remaining.

 

...Can you tell I think prize dragons were a bad idea? <___<

[DarkEternity]

Yahhh, if you win and don't want the deluge, the smartest thing is turning off your scroll username and not posting you won.

 

Although from what I've heard, simply posting your list is closed / you aren't taking requests right now is extremely effective. If you get a stray PM anyway, you can just delete during daily inbox cleaning.

 

Then again, the issue (as Fiona pointed out) might be people simply not knowing what's coming. Older players will know, yes, but newer players (and it seems a lot DO end up going to newer players)... don't know how to handle it, boom comes the flood, and then they quit and there's even more pressure on the winners remaining.

 

...Can you tell I think prize dragons were a bad idea? <___<

On one hand: winning an exclusive prize which, as people say, should be a prize and be valuable.

 

On the other hand: winning an exclusive prize is always going to attract celebrity status. And you can only obtain a prize from somebody who won a prize or obtained one from a winner and in order to exchange eggs from the prize you reveal who you are -- no matter what way you look at it there is forced social interaction and little to no anonymity.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DarkEternity

[MedievalMystic]

MM, do you know what happens when you do a revolving list like that? It never ends. You being to feel as though the people in the thread own your dragon because there is always more people wanting eggs than there are slots to fill and as soon as you clear one list there are more people jumping up to fill the next one.

 

That is precisely how I handled some of my alt shadow walkers at first. It got difficult and discouraging very fast. I can't blame new players for getting over their heads. They don't know. I'd been a player for several years and had no real idea. Lists sound like a good idea, but they're a trap.

 

I do understand what you're saying, FBF, totally, especially when it comes to a new player who isn't familiar with how things go around here with Prize dragons. There's no doubt they'd feel overwhelmed. But older players shouldn't.

 

Prize winners need to keep control of the situation, imo. If I won a Prize, I'd ask for 5 posters. When I got them, I'd make it very clear that the give away was over. I'd also make it clear that anyone posting after my closing post would be immediately blacklisted from EVER getting an egg and that I did not welcome PMs. After that point, I best be left alone. I'd be in my own little world again, left alone in peace. I'd have my few players that I needed to get eggs to and I'd make it clear in the thread that when I got them, they'd get them and not to bug me about them in the interim. I don't like pressure. I don't respond well to it. Nothing like that would happen because I simply wouldn't allow it. Bug me about an egg and hell would freeze before you'd see one and I'd make that known. If people were smart and wanted an egg, they'd get it.

 

And Sin, you're missing the point. I don't care if people scream from the rooftops that they won a Prize dragon. That does not give anyone here the right to bother them in droves. Just because that's what people around here do doesn't mean that what they're doing is right.

Edited January 6, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Jazeki]

On one hand: winning an exclusive prize which, as people say, should be a prize and be valuable.

 

On the other hand: winning an exclusive prize is always going to attract celebrity status. And you can only obtain a prize from somebody who won a prize or obtained one from a winner and in order to exchange eggs from the prize you reveal who you are -- no matter what way you look at it there is forced social interaction and little to no anonymity.

There are some prizes that still aren't accounted for, so it's possible to trade and do whatever anonymously. I've seen examples of prize lines for the first time this year that I had no idea existed until I perused these discussions. I can understand _Sin_'s questioning though as it is entirely possible for some users to know about harassment, complain about it, and still post that they won when the time comes around.

[DarkEternity]

There are some prizes that still aren't accounted for, so it's possible to trade and do whatever anonymously. I've seen examples of prize lines for the first time this year that I had no idea existed until I perused these discussions.  I can understand _Sin_'s questioning though as it is entirely possible for some users to know about harassment, complain about it, and still post that they won when the time comes around.

Some more anonymity in trading (for example, removing the scrollname of the person offering the trade) would also possibly help.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Fiona]

MM, the posters in the thread were very polite and grateful. They didn't harass anyone. That wasn't the problem. There was a lot of "oh rats! I'm too late. Well, maybe next time." if they missed getting one of the slots. So, even though they were well behaved there was still pressure to make a new list when the old one was done, because I knew there were a bunch of people who hadn't gotten on the list and wanted to. So, even though I only had a few slots at a time I still had an endless list. And that is the problem with lists.

 

I don't see this suggestion as solving that little issue at all. There will never be enough 2nd gens to satisfy people.

[MedievalMystic]

I understand, FBF, what you're saying. But you don't have to accept being pressured. I'd have said something like 'GAME OVER. LIST CLOSED. Please do not PM me. Please do not request being on future lists. I don't know if there will be a future list at this point. If and when there is a future list, I'll let you know. I'd appreciate being left in peace now that this give away is over. Thanks for your cooperation'.

 

The end. And I'd mean every word. I wouldn't so much as look at that thread again.

[_Sin_]

And Sin, you're missing the point.  I don't care if people scream from the rooftops that they won a Prize dragon.  That does not give anyone here the right to bother them in droves.  Just because that's what people around here do doesn't mean that what they're doing is right.

No, I'm not. You are. We are dealing with human nature here. You scream from the rooftop that you have something that the majority is coveting and the majority will contact you. You see that as harassment, I see that as expected.

[MedievalMystic]

We are dealing with human nature here

 

Excusing bad behavior by calling it 'human nature' doesn't fly with me. If your neighbor wins the multi million dollar lottery are you and the entire neighborhood going to bang on his door with your hand out?

[kerrikins]

I've been reading all those posts about "harassment" and I'm feeling quite puzzled. Considering that, based on the experience of previous prize winners, new prize winners know that they will receive tons of requests if they reveal themselves, why do they? Tell the world you won and the world and their sisters will contact you, if you don't want to be "harassed" can't you shut up?What am I missing here?

Or are we talking about drama prime donne: yes I want attention, yes, yes, but all of the sudden I'm so shy?

 

P.S. - Note that I didn't "harassed" or requested a thing from prize owners. And that I've no intention of starting any time soon.

I think that's a little dismissive, to be honest. A lot of the winners are simply excited and not necessarily thinking it through, and some of them are pretty young, too. They're not really thinking about whether they can juggle the attention and a possible list and all the pms, etc. And on top of that, as soon as they win there's this enormous pressure to *have* a list and share with the site and maybe do giveaways and be careful they don't seem too greedy and breed on the dot every week, etc, etc.

 

I really think that it kind of shifts the blame off of the userbase where it belongs and on to the prize owners when we start saying 'well why don't they just keep quiet'. I mean, do we really want to just be okay with the idea that the community of DC puts so much pressure on people that they should just never breathe a word? *shrugs*

[Starscream]

No, I'm not. You are. We are dealing with human nature here. You scream from the rooftop that you have something that the majority is coveting and the majority will contact you. You see that as harassment, I see that as expected.

This is a potentially bad comment I am making, but I can't help but liken "expect it" as an excuse some people use to legitimise hostile acts against others because. "they were asking for it", "they deserved it", and" if they didn't wear that it wouldn't happen." And to be quite honest, I do not buy that excuse at all, what so ever. If I were to announce I had a rare, and people started to hassle me. I would report it. Would I be deserving or asking for it? No. It's an excuse people use to make their harassment "legit" and no matter how you colour it, it is not legit.

[AnanoKimi]

I've been reading all those posts about "harassment" and I'm feeling quite puzzled. Considering that, based on the experience of previous prize winners, new prize winners know that they will receive tons of requests if they reveal themselves, why do they? Tell the world you won and the world and their sisters will contact you, if you don't want to be "harassed" can't you shut up?What am I missing here?

 

Is is a little insulting really... I sort of knew what I was getting my self into when I saw that "You Won" message when I clicked the link TJ provided. I squealed, I got so happy. Heaven forbid I would share my joy for the sake of a few pats on the back and some "Congratulations!" You would do the same, heck, majority of DC would scream it to the world that they were one of the lucky few to get something special.

 

If you win something random you entered you can't say "Well don't say anything about it, otherwise your asking for it." That is unfair... I want to be congratulated, I want to feel nice for winning, I want to receive a few warm wishes and pats on the back for being lucky. How about instead of telling prize winners to not share their joy, we tell the community to be respectful, allow prize winners to enjoy their babies, and not hassle them or message them the second they know who won? I know many will retort with "Well I didn't do it so its not my fault." No its not, but it is everyone else's for not waiting at least24 hours before going "Hey so how about you gimmie a baby from your prize?"

 

I was lucky to have been responded by so many kind and warm people walking me through what to expect, what to do, and over all ensuring me that I should let no one guilt me or force me to do with my dragon what I didn't want to do. As much as I would personally like to share my love through my own choice I don't think my desire should force others to do what they don't want.

 

Lady Lazar and Starscream all made a point that this suggestion is harassment, and the more I look through it, read through it, and think about it, it kinda is. Why should a prize owner be forced to breed multiple babies for you? Why should they have to share their prize's offspring with you? Because you want it? Because you think its fair? Fair for who? You?

 

I sympathize that Linage builders will not have full access to create all the pretty lineages they want. I Sympathize with collectors because they simple can't have them all. I personally wish I could give you all every second gen I breed because i want to try and be nice, be kind, and alleviate some of that frustration. I have no reason to do so though. I've never met you, don't know you, might never talk to you again... and yet I try my best to give you a piece of something that is mine. I choose to. The fact that I choose to gives no one the right to force someone to do the same. You may breed for you... I may breed for you and me... but that's you and me. Not everyone else. Everyone else has the right to breed for themselves only, for their friends only, or not at all. If they want to breed for their own gain its their choice and their right. If they want to breed to gift randomly, its their choice and their right, if they don't want to breed at all, its their choice and their right. Regardless of how much you or anyone dislikes this, its the truth. No amount of kicking, screaming, or demanding can change this fact.

 

Forcing someone to either have to breed for you or not breed at all is simply wrong.

 

Now I at first didn't see the point, but have now realized its helpfulness; Multiclutching should be used as a BSA where users can pick and choose what dragons multiclutch so that all dragons not just prizes multiclutch. This Means that if player x want to multiclutch to share their prize babies they can, but if player y only wants to breed one prize baby at a time to decide what they do with it they can. Giving users the liberty to play this game as they desire is what makes DC what it is. Its not just collecting but its being able to collect and breed, collect and create lineages, collect and trade, collect and gift, collect and whatever you want.

[_Sin_]

Excusing bad behavior by calling it 'human nature' doesn't fly with me.  If your neighbor wins the multi million dollar lottery are you and the entire neighborhood going to bang on his door with your hand out?

As I said, I do not go requesting a thing from prize owners. And people here in DC do not think they are doing nothing wrong (bad behavior, really?) contacting a prize winner until the prize winner states that doesn't want to be contacted, as ADP said. I'm under the impression that some want to show off without dealing with the obvious consequences. And I bet that every 3rd removed cousin of my billionaire neighbor would be knocking at his/her door. Anyway, I'm waiting for the next drama llama around the 12th.

 

UPDATE: Anyway, is there anybody stopping anybody from requesting a new rule: "PRIZE WINNERS AREN'T TO BE CONTACTED UNTIL THEY SAY SO!" That would simplify the issue. Obviously as soon as they say so, the world, sisters and cousins would contact them etc. etc. etc.

Edited January 6, 2015 by _Sin_

[Starscream]

I would think that not contacting someone until they indicate otherwise would be common sense.

[MedievalMystic]

I would think that not contacting someone until they indicate otherwise would be common sense.

 

THIS.

 

I was really beginning to wonder if I had been teleported to an alien world...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think making a rule that you can't contact someone... on a public forum... without explicit permission is overdoing it. There is a big difference between asking someone who said do not ask and contacting someone who has no statement either way to politely inquire if they'd be interested in a trade.

Edited January 6, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[_Sin_]

This is a potentially bad comment I am making, but I can't help but liken "expect it" as an excuse some people use to legitimise hostile acts against others because. "they were asking for it", "they deserved it", and" if they didn't wear that it wouldn't happen." And to be quite honest, I do not buy that excuse at all, what so ever. If I were to announce I had a rare, and people started to hassle me. I would report it. Would I be deserving or asking for it? No. It's an excuse people use to make their harassment "legit" and no matter how you colour it, it is not legit.

I said "contacting you". You said "hassle". Two very different things. Furthermore, your profile says that you will not accept breeding requests so wouldn't be correct to ask you for anything anyway. Again, we are talking about apples and oranges. I'm talking about people screaming from the roof top that they won something without adding that they DO NOT WANT TO BE CONTACTED. I spent quite a bit on the thread relative to last year's raffle. It was illuminating.

[_Sin_]

THIS.

 

I was really beginning to wonder if I had been teleported to an alien world...

Nope. Just Earth.

[MedievalMystic]

I think making a rule that you can't contact someone... on a public form... without explicit permission is overdoing it. There is a big difference between asking someone who said do not ask and contacting someone who has no statement either way to politely inquire if they'd be interested in a trade.

 

Maybe you're right. But if someone does say in their sig not to contact them I'd hope people respected that. I do think that it should simply be a given form of respect and consideration...and common sense.... to not automatically PM winners of Prize dragons within 5 minutes of finding out who they are. I think the user base should give them at least 24 hours to get over the excitement and decide what they want to do and to find out if they're going to put some kind of note in their sigs/profiles, whatever, indicating what their wishes are.

[Starscream]

Maybe you're right. But if someone does say in their sig not to contact them I'd hope people respected that.

I have had people contact me even after they read my profile, signature or scroll rules. The unfortunate thing, some people do not feel this applies to them and they should try anyway. I have had problems in the past, hence why I have what I have in my profile and whatnot.

 

I respect people's requests and only contact when that is clear to me. if they do not indicate any which way, I would likely err on the side of caution and not bother.

[_Sin_]

I think making a rule that you can't contact someone... on a public forum... without explicit permission is overdoing it. There is a big difference between asking someone who said do not ask and contacting someone who has no statement either way to politely inquire if they'd be interested in a trade.

Thank you. I could hug you right now. Do not worry, will not try.

 

If I was to win, I would just shut up and, between gifting to friends and start paying back some exceptional people in DC, I would be busy for one year... more or less. If, instead, I was feeling the need to have my ego stroked, I would post about my good fortune with the addendum "Busy gifting to friends and exceptional human beings in DC, please leave me alone". If and only if, someone would not listen, I would just block them. Easy.

Edited January 6, 2015 by yosofine