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Sheriziya

ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

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No one is seeking your or anyone's sympathy, in case you haven't noticed.

 

No, I'm sorry, I didn't notice.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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I think Syphoniera hit the nail on the head with her post. With each new raffle distribution, the pool of dragons increases a teeny bit, which takes a small amount of pressure off of old prize winners. And this suggestion would (hopefully) alleviate some of the pressure on prize owners.

 

At the same time, I also have decided that if I do win the raffle, I will not announce that I have won as that's the post will set off a flurry of PMs. I will also gift/trade on my own terms. I know what it's like to have endless lists and I sympathize with the desire to cater to the rest of the user group's desires, but I don't think that this suggestion will do anything to hurt those who want to do their own thing with their prizes and I don't understand how "But I have lists and goals" is a strong argument against this suggestion.

Edited by Jazeki

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Guys, I think we all need to cool down a bit

 

You and every other Prize winner can try as hard as you can, and you still won't make a dent in the demand

This is true. It is not anybodies fault, but it causes massive pressure on both prize winners and the trading economy. The dragons do not produce often enough. Nearly everyone agrees on this.

 

It's really great to know that you and some other prize owners out there are doing something nice on your own initiative, but the current system on a whole, where an extreme minority of players has the entire trade market at their mercy, needs to crash and burn. Hard.

Basically this. I don't care for prizes as I am not a fan of staircases, cannot catch or breed anything that would enable me to trade for dragons that could create a prize checker, and rarely trade for anything at all except specific mates for lineages. It is not that I want the prizes. I want the trade market to stop revolving around them.

 

My only concern is AP Stalkers faster than you're average user. They will get most of AP 2nd gens and monatize them.

This is why an increased production is more important than trying to spread them per se. Those who are most likely to catch them are those who probably can already catch enough to trade for them. But the more that are available, the less they will be worth monetising. I support this idea more because it will give more chances of getting a prize in any given breeding, therefore both increasing list turnover (less stress for winners) and increasing supply (less valuable in trading), than because of how helpful I think it will be to your average AP hunter.

Edited by Prince_Xanthius

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Then my apologies. My statement was mostly based on the more recent posts you have made which have seemed so negative over the idea of prizes multiclutching as well as the idea that all prize owners are greedy or deserve the pelt of hate we obtain. Again, my apologies.

 

I dont think multi clutching for other dragons, other than maybe metallics, is really necessary. With such a large userbase, their eggs are more than available and thus not realy a need. Now as I said for metallics and Prizes who are less cooperative then multi clutch would be ideal.

Prize threads tend to get contentious, no apologies needed.

 

For why multi-clutching in general is a good idea, that discussion is probably more fruitful in non-prize threads, like this BSA I suggested earlier today:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=165731

 

The answer as to why we'd want it is some common x common pairings are really hard to get the mate's egg from. I just bred 13 Falconi x Royal Crimsons... And got 10 Falconi. I'm up to 24 Olives from an Olive x Albino pair. They give Olives every single week. >.< Some other poor soul got 60+ Black Teas in a row... From *Pebbles*, of all things!

 

So, for me, its not just about Prizes, its about helping lineage buildings get the right egg while also increasing the number of low-time blocker types in the AP, where they will be raised and enter the ratios and become not-so-blockerish. Which helps everyone.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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It's really great to know that you and some other prize owners out there are doing something nice on your own initiative, but the current system on a whole, where an extreme minority of players has the entire trade market at their mercy, needs to crash and burn. Hard.

I don't think crash and burn, but expand. I think if the pool increased to accommodate the increasing number of users then there would be more useful breeders able to help the few of us trying to do something about it. I've stated this quite a few times but even if I hadn't won I would still like to see prizes remain as exlcusive prizes because I believe its a nice thing. Not everyone wins, not everyone gets a participation prize, and thats just life.

 

With more and more people joining this site I do believe that the number of possible winners has to increase bit by bit to accommodate such a growing mass of users all hoping to collect as many dragons as possible.

 

Prize threads tend to get contentious, no apologies needed.

 

For why multi-clutching in general is a good idea, that discussion is probably more fruitful in non-prize threads, like this BSA I suggested earlier today:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=165731

 

The answer as to why we'd want it is some common x common pairings are really hard to get the mate's egg from. I just bred 13 Falconi x Royal Crimsons... And got 10 Falconi. I'm up to 24 Olives from an Olive x Albino pair. They give Olives every single week. >.< Some other poor soul got 60+ Black Teas in a row... From *Pebbles*, of all things!

 

So, for me, its not just about Prizes, its about helping lineage buildings get the right egg while also increasing the number of low-time blocker types in the AP, where they will be raised and enter the ratios and become not-so-blockerish. Which helps everyone.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

I think it was discussed that it was due to how common or how new certain dragons were as to why certain breeds bred more than others. Like lets say Olives were released a few days ago, 99% of all pairings would resultin in olive eggs than the mates eggs for the next year or so due to how the site updates the breed ratios on a yearly basis or something. Don't quote me on that. I do believe that due to this issue there is also a BSA suggestion about making it so that when dragon x and dragon y are gonna breed, the bsa would make for example dragon x's egg be bred over dragon y's to ensure that not only dragon y's egg would happen during every breeding. Again don't quote me but I think thats a thing.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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Wouldn't this end up screwing up Prize's ratios in the long run?

The more eggs that are bred, the rarer they'll become.

 

I would only support multi clutch returning if it was for all dragons.

And I would support multi-clutch for all dragons.

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The Sunsong one, right? If the way it's suggested is implemented, the way eggs are determined from breeding needs to change (which I'm perfectly fine with, tbh). Otherwise, you end up with horrible droughts for popular breeds.

 

I really hate how the raffle system currently works, tbh (nowhere near enough active CB owners for the active userbase,for one), and i think it's the core issue with the whole thing... but a suggestion like this would alleviate the issue somewhat (if only because more commons means the ratios balance faster).

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Wouldn't this end up screwing up Prize's ratios in the long run?

The more eggs that are bred, the rarer they'll become.

 

I would only support multi clutch returning if it was for all dragons.

And I would support multi-clutch for all dragons.

Well if the BSA Suggestion (which seems to be the sunsong) becomes a thing, then there will be a posibility of still helping those odds compided with this suggestion.

 

The Sunsong one, right? If the way it's suggested is implemented, the way eggs are determined from breeding needs to change (which I'm perfectly fine with, tbh). Otherwise, you end up with horrible droughts for popular breeds.

 

I really hate how the raffle system currently works, tbh (nowhere near enough active CB owners for the active userbase,for one), and i think it's the core issue with the whole thing... but a suggestion like this would alleviate the issue somewhat (if only because more commons means the ratios balance faster).

Yes I think thats the one and I am honestly ok with such a change as well.

 

I agree that the lack of active breeders is the core issue. The number of winners is too small, and the number of not just active members but actively breeding dragons is smaller still. That is why I want to see a combo of improved ratios, multi clutching, and an increased winner pool which will solve the breeding issue and the actively breeding users issue all in one go.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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I always suspected that was how some people manage to 'find' so many nice holly lines in the AP, but jeez that's just once a year. Do you really think all but the most hardcore prize owners would go to that much trouble every time they breed their prize? ...and I ask that in all sincerity

Those who catch nice holly lines out of the ap are probably jus freaks with a lot of time on their hands and the proper skills.

 

But: if you are in any social media besides dc-forum with your closer dc frends, it typically costs you nothing extra to notify them.

 

And Darketernity's statement about holies getting pushed to the top: not true. They only get as much push as any other holiday. So they'll be caught up in a holiday backlog, if there's one, but now that you can collect many of the same breed, this rarely happens.

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Those who catch nice holly lines out of the ap are probably jus freaks with a lot of time on their hands and the proper skills.

 

But: if you are in any social media besides dc-forum with your closer dc frends, it typically costs you nothing extra to notify them.

 

And Darketernity's statement about holies getting pushed to the top: not true. They only get as much push as any other holiday. So they'll be caught up in a holiday backlog, if there's one, but now that you can collect many of the same breed, this rarely happens.

Currently AP time is sitting at:

5 days and 19 hours left

That means that from when an egg is bred (7D) to when it is seen (5D 19 hrs) there is a very long period of time. I can't see how it is possible to catch an egg from a friend's auto'd clutch based on 'notifying' alone unless you aren't sleeping.

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Those who catch nice holly lines out of the ap are probably jus freaks with a lot of time on their hands and the proper skills.

 

But: if you are in any social media besides dc-forum with your closer dc frends, it typically costs you nothing extra to notify them.

 

And Darketernity's statement about holies getting pushed to the top: not true. They only get as much push as any other holiday. So they'll be caught up in a holiday backlog, if there's one, but now that you can collect many of the same breed, this rarely happens.

The only quibble I have with your post is the one about the backlog. tongue.gif

 

This past Christmas, the backlog lasted well into the following afternoon. And the backlog at Halloween was Epic! During the Christmas event, the backlog would often get to be 4 to 6 hours long, then would clear up then would build up again.

 

Backlogs at Holidays will be happening more and more frequently.

 

ETA:

I've personally caught eggs others have accidentally auto'ed, and done it with an even longer backlog (it was at 4d 19hrs or so, if memory serves). A bit of planning and luck with the time zones and you can do it. And yes, this was a common-ish egg during normal breeding times. And I've done it more than once.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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Currently AP time is sitting at:

5 days and 19 hours left

That means that from when an egg is bred (7D) to when it is seen (5D 19 hrs) there is a very long period of time. I can't see how it is possible to catch an egg from a friend's auto'd clutch based on 'notifying' alone unless you aren't sleeping.

Ap times do not change suddenly, so its easy to predict when an egg will likely hit the ap.

 

That's the easier part. Anyone can do this to approximate it to 1-3 hours timewindow.

 

If you know, however, the exact breed time, you can do this a lot more precisely, cutting down on time and effort - upping chances as your catchers are more fresh. And if you add another egg as marker, say 10-15 minutes earlier, that helps as well.

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Hollies are bumped to the top of the holiday wall.

Actually they were all over it - mixed in with the rest.

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Mixed in with the rest of the holiday eggs, that is. Not with the "regular", non-holiday eggs.

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Mixed in with the rest of the holiday eggs, that is. Not with the "regular", non-holiday eggs.

Yes, but Darketernity was stating that they go to the top of the holiday pile as well, which is clearly NOT true.

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Yes, but Darketernity was stating that they go to the top of the holiday pile as well, which is clearly NOT true.

That was a typing derp I should have recognised earlier.

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Newbies and the vast majority of folks can also literally take over a year to get a gold, or a silver, or a blusang, etc. etc. Should we bring back multiclutches just so satisfy the need that those users to have their dragons asap?

 

Apples and oranges.....newbies take a year or more to get a CB, longer lineages are extremely easy to obtain. CB prizes are unobtainable...period. So this is not an applicable analogy.

 

That's like saying that everyone who buys tickets to a lottery should get some of the money.

 

Uh...no. Not even close. That doesn't even make sense in the context of what we are debating here. It is impossible for prize winners to 'share' their 'prize'. They won a CB dragon, the only thing that can be shared is the lesser valued offspring.

 

You're acting as though it's some strange, unheard of, bizarre thing for someone to want to control their offspring, when that happens *all* the time

 

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion from what I wrote. At this point I could only repeat what I have already said over and over and that would be time consuming and pointless, so I will just state again that yes I utterly support multi clutches for prize dragons for the reasons I have pointed out before.

Edited by Dubious

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That was a typing derp I should have recognised earlier.

*giggle* no worries ! I was just sticking with the SECOND row in the hope of hitting one while others were focused on the top row !

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Multi clutching in prize dragons should only ever be optional, imo, not a given. If prize winners want a multi clutch, great. If they don't, that's fine, too. It remains their choice. I don't think the choice to do as they please with their dragons or their offspring should be taken out of their hands for any reason.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Multi clutching in prize dragons should only ever be optional, imo, not a given.   If prize winners want a multi clutch, great.  If they don't, that's fine, too.  It remains their choice.  I don't think the  choice to do as they please with their dragons or their offspring should be taken out of their hands for any reason.

ACTUALLY I was just reading a thread that proposed using a BSA as a way to induce multis.

THAT way, multis would be entirely the choice of the owners.

 

You don't want them, then don't use the BSA; or if you do, then... you do. smile.gif

 

MAYBE that way of dealing with it would be more to your liking?

 

ETA: HERE is the link to the BSA Thread.

Edited by Silverswift

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ACTUALLY I was just reading a thread that proposed using a BSA as a way to induce multis.

THAT way, multis would be entirely the choice of the owners.

 

That seems fair all around. Some Prize winners will want multi clutches and use the feature, some won't. Either way they choose to play is fine and should be accepted by others. As long as they have a choice, which to me is only fair and right, I'm all for it.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Somehow, I don't see this as advantageous for the overall player base. Prize owners who want control over each and every baby of their prize - be it a prize or prizekin baby - won't use it. Many other prize owners won't use it because having to use a BSA first is kind of less comfortable than just hitting breed. (And maybe fertility...) Prize owners who actually use it will most likely use it to cherry pick only prize eggs from their prize x common pairings. The only winners will be - surprise! - the prize winners.

 

I think that especially prizes are what make DC unfair all around. Everyone takes the same effort for the lottery ticket, true. And I'm not saying that the lottery itself is skewed, even though there are some things going on that seem strange. It might just be random chance, after all.

 

However, giving a lot of (trading) power to a very small number of people is what unhinged DC economy from day one.

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Gonna play devils advocate for a moment, so don't hate.

 

And probably not going to put this quite right, but .... The winners technically only win a prize, to do with as they please, breed it or not, freeze it, kill it, release it. We only assume that means they get total say over the offspring too because that is the way it has been so far.

But that's not a given, is it? Who is to say whether or not that is the way it should be. The trade market is all wonky because of prize offspring, so why wouldn't it make sense to see if changing things up could fix that.

 

How the prize behaves, the results of the breeding- that just sort of comes along with the territory, whether that means unbreedable prizes, prizes that breed only a non shiny, prizes that multiclutch and give the scroll owner the option of keeping none, one, or all, etc, etc. IMO it is very much like the holidays, they come with a particular set of restrictions and if you want a holiday dragon you accept those restrictions. You always have the choice to turn it down if it doesn't meet your wants.

 

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Somehow, this makes a lot of sense. No hate from me.

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Gonna play devils advocate for a moment, so don't hate.

 

And probably not going to put this quite right, but .... The winners technically only win a prize, to do with as they please, breed it or not, freeze it, kill it, release it. We only assume that means they get total say over the offspring too because that is the way it has been so far.

But that's not a given, is it? Who is to say whether or not that is the way it should be. The trade market is all wonky because of prize offspring, so why wouldn't it make sense to see if changing things up could fix that.

 

How the prize behaves, the results of the breeding- that just sort of comes along with the territory, whether that means unbreedable prizes, prizes that breed only a non shiny, prizes that multiclutch and give the scroll owner the option of keeping none, one, or all, etc, etc. IMO it is very much like the holidays, they come with a particular set of restrictions and if you want a holiday dragon you accept those restrictions. You always have the choice to turn it down if it doesn't meet your wants.

Right on, Tawanda !

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