ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Maybe you're right. But if someone does say in their sig not to contact them I'd hope people respected that. I do think that it should simply be a given form of respect and consideration...and common sense.... to not automatically PM winners of Prize dragons within 5 minutes of finding out who they are. I think the user base should give them at least 24 hours to get over the excitement and decide what they want to do and to find out if they're going to put some kind of note in their sigs/profiles, whatever, indicating what their wishes are.

Yah, I agree with you on the no contact thing. Like I said, though, I've heard it IS quite effective in most cases.

 

The sad reality is that contacting almost instantly is often the only way to get on lists. There was one time I waited 24 hours to contact a new Spriter's Alt creator and found the list had already gotten people on it... missed a free 2g Holly request by literally 15 minutes... have seen Prize owners lists fill extremely fast as well...

 

So yah, the (super) early bird often does get the worm, I'm afraid. The solution is that new winners put the "please wait while I figure things out" message somewhere right away, but if the winners are younger and don't know what to do... ;;

[Obscure_Trash]

If people figure we need to add new rules for the forum or changes to the PM system, perhaps that should be started in a new thread? ^^

[AnanoKimi]

If there needs to be any change to that is the ability block if you can be PM'd at all. I don't know how widely used this would be.

 

Honestly people should just be able to use their common sense but yeah...

[DarkEternity]

If there needs to be any change to that is the ability block if you can be PM'd at all. I don't know how widely used this would be.

 

Honestly people should just be able to use their common sense but yeah...

I have heard you can prevent it by filling up your inbox entirely: that way no one can send messages.

[_Sin_]

The sad reality is that contacting almost instantly is often the only way to get on lists. There was one time I waited 24 hours to contact a new Spriter's Alt creator and found the list had already gotten people on it... missed a free 2g Holly request by literally 15 minutes... have seen Prize owners lists fill extremely fast as well...

 

So yah, the (super) early bird often does get the worm, I'm afraid. The solution is that new winners put the "please wait while I figure things out" message somewhere right away, but if the winners are younger and don't know what to do... ;;

In fact, what happens is that, as soon as someone post that they won, they get a bunch of requests and they fill their "potential" list, reason why so many PM them. Again, unless there is a rule to do otherwise (and, no, I'm not advocating it) or, unless the winners state immediately that they do not want to be contacted, they will be contacted. The "losers" are the polite ones. Again, sorry for being boring, human nature. So, what would be the solution?

[AnanoKimi]

I have heard you can prevent it by filling up your inbox entirely: that way no one can send messages.

That is one way.

 

Back on topic.

 

In terms of the topic I think Multi clutch should be left to a BSA rather than forcefully implemented on all dragons or prizes etc. that way those who don't wanna multi clutch don't have to :3

 

In fact, what happens is that, as soon as someone post that they won, they get a bunch of requests and they fill their "potential" list, reason why so many PM them. Again, unless there is a rule to do otherwise (and, no, I'm not advocating it) or, unless the winners state immediately that they do not want to be contacted, they will be contacted. The "losers" are the polite ones. Again, sorry for being boring, human nature. So, what would be the solution?

 

A thread should be made separately if solutions for the message fiascoes are to be thought of~

Edited January 6, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The suggested Moonstone BSA for multiclutching is making a lot of progress. Lets everyone have the option to experience the joy (or avoid the horror XP) of multiclutching as they so wish, which is probably the best compromise to the suggestion at hand.

[AnanoKimi]

The suggested Moonstone BSA for multiclutching is making a lot of progress. Lets everyone have the option to experience the joy (or avoid the horror XP) of multiclutching as they so wish, which is probably the best compromise to the suggestion at hand.

I agree and t really is progressing nicely. I do hope a good working BSA is created out of this. This would solve one of the many problems at hand here.

[_Sin_]

A thread should be made separately if solutions for the message fiascoes are to be thought of~

You are correct but I don't believe that there are solutions so I will leave that thread starting to someone else that does. I was just trying to point to the fact that the "harassment" referenced all over this thread could be, in many cases, just normal behavior due to lack of clarity from the winners. Inexpert or not. The remaining "harassment" can be dealt with. Report it.

[AnanoKimi]

You are correct but I don't believe that there are solutions so I will leave that thread starting to someone else that does. I was just trying to point to the fact that the "harassment" referenced all over this thread could be, in many cases, just normal behavior due to lack of clarity from the winners. Inexpert or not. The remaining "harassment" can be dealt with. Report it.

Well the harassment mentioned in this thread is forcing prize owners to multi clutch against the will of some of them. Making Prizes or all dragon multiclutch for the sake of the personal gain of non prize dragon owners is no different that telling someone how to play their game. If user x doesnt want their silver shimmer to multi clutch You, me, or anyone can force upon the the feature of their dragon multi clutching.

 

Thats why I've really started throwing support and suggestions in the Moosntone BSA for Multiclutching thread. This allows for users like me who would love to multi clutch to spread the shiny love in the Ap to do so and allow those prize owners who don't want their eggs randomly ending up in the AP to breed one egg at a time. Certain game play should not be forced on a user for ones personal benefit.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Well the harassment mentioned in this thread is forcing prize owners to multi clutch against the will of some of them.

Actually several people in recent pages were suggesting contacting prize winners can be harassment. Which CAN be the case, but isn't ALWAYS the case.

[AnanoKimi]

Actually several people in recent pages were suggesting contacting prize winners can be harassment. Which CAN be the case, but isn't ALWAYS the case.

Well that too. Just as equally some few pages back some said forcing all prize owners to multiclutch wass harassment as well.

Edited January 6, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[_Sin_]

Well that too. Just as equally some few pages back some said forcing all prize owners to multiclutch wass harassment as well.

I think I made it very clear that the "harassment" I was referencing was the "contacting" part. And in general, I think that is NOT harassment to contact someone that didn't state that they do not want to be contacted. If I was not clear, my apologies.

P.S. - Since I would like to avoid warnings I will NOT state what I think about "multiclutching" being equivalent to "harassment" :-)

Edited January 6, 2015 by _Sin_

[AnanoKimi]

I think I made it very clear that the "harassment" I was referencing was the "contacting" part. And in general, I think that is NOT harassment to contact someone that didn't state that they do not want to be contacted. If I was not clear, my apologies.

You might have, I could have just been a bit confused on my own. I think it still might be, depending I remember it took me to get my bearing and as everyone started saying what could happen and such it took me a while to get any sort of message on my sig, my page, and anywhere visible that I was to not be contacted about lists. In that time I recieved a good 50 ish messages, some polite, some straight out "Heres a gold, add me to your list", and very few rude ones. It was unwelcomed but I was patient. Some might not be to which I think it should be one of those silent yet well known rules to give prize winners a little breathing room to get their bearings, know what all is about to happen, and plan out what to do next.

 

I don't think a rule should be specifically stated, but awareness that regardless of whether a person has a statement or not yet, that users need to calm down, wait a bit, then message winning users. if not 24 hr wait, then maybe an hour or so to give winning users a little breathing room before things get real and busy.

Edited January 6, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[_Sin_]

You might have, I could have just been a bit confused on my own. I think it still might be, depending I remember it took me to get my bearing and as everyone started saying what could happen and such it took me a while to get any sort of message on my sig, my page, and anywhere visible that I was to not be contacted about lists. In that time I recieved a good 50 ish messages, some polite, some straight out "Heres a gold, add me to your list", and very few rude ones. It was unwelcomed but I was patient. Some might not be to which I think it should be one of those silent yet well known rules to give prize winners a little breathing room to get their bearings, know what all is about to happen, and plan out what to do next.

 

I don't think a rule should be specifically stated, but awareness that regardless of whether a person has a statement or not yet, that users need to calm down, wait a bit, then message winning users. if not 24 hr wait, then maybe an hour or so to give winning users a little breathing room before things get real and busy.

I sympathize with your predicament. At the same time, maybe, just maybe, you could have reported the rude ones and ignored the "goldened" ones :-) Seriously now: it would seem that the "leave the winner alone" silent rule works against the ones that follow it since the winners add the "not-silent", not-polite ones to their waiting list. Basically: the fast ones, the overbearing ones, get rewarded for their behavior. Again, I've no solutions. I don't even think that there are solutions.

[AnanoKimi]

I sympathize with your predicament. At the same time, maybe, just maybe, you could have reported the rude ones and ignored the "goldened" ones :-) Seriously now: it would seem that the "leave the winner alone" silent rule works against the ones that follow it since the winners add the "not-silent", not-polite ones to their waiting list. Basically: the fast ones, the overbearing ones, get rewarded for their behavior. Again, I've no solutions. I don't even think that there are solutions.

Same. Each winner is different where some reward the rude or overbearing and some, like me, found them a tad disrespectful and rewarded no one even the good ones as we figured out what we were gonna do next.

 

To some degree it can be harassment and to some degree it is not. Depends on the individual and the circumstance. I don't think there can be a solution to something that can vary so much. Also I responded to the rude ones stating that any further response from them in a non polite manner would result in their being reported. They were so far and few in between that it didn't make me feel the need to report anyone. Other though I saw were getting horribly pelted with people yelling "gimmie gimmie" and I felt so bad for them X3

[Obscure_Trash]

If people figure we need to add new rules for the forum or changes to the PM system, perhaps that should be started in a new thread? ^^

*cough* I do understand how this conversation on harassment naturally came out of this topic, but let's please get back on topic, as the conversation has strayed from the purpose of this thread.

[_Sin_]

Maybe I'm being naif but I always thought of the Prizes as Holiday-related. For example, we just spent a couple of weeks during the holidays event earning raffle entries. There wouldn't be Prizes without the raffle, there wouldn't be raffle without the holidays. So, why wouldn't the Prizes behave like Holidays from a multi clutch point of view? Why should be ok for the owner of a CB Holly to not have control over the offspring and not ok for the owner of a Prize?

[Fuzzbucket]

What does it say?   If there's a rule in place that prohibits the kind of harassment I'm talking about, why are Prize winners mail boxes exploding and stuffed to the gills almost immediately after people discover who the winners are?  Why do Prize winners talk about feeling so much pressure?   If there's some rule in place preventing PMing them and pressuring them, which is what I'm talking about, then people are obviously ignoring it.

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=147040

Report it. Mods CAN block people from PMing altogether.

 

Also you CAN block individual people from PMing. you. I have had to do that with a couple of people who harassed me for other eggs entirely.

 

Maybe you're right.  But if someone does say in their sig not to contact them I'd hope people respected that. .

Some who are FAIRLY harmless on the whole just don't read properly - I had loads of holly requests - quite politely - when my sig said firmly that that was the only one I would NOT breed for free.

 

All that said - I think generalised multiclutching is a bad idea. I don't know if I've changed my mind - I've lost count. I now think the BSA idea is the answer - even though I would have LIKED to see them treated more like holidays. Or just leave it is it is.

 

I do know that I would not be announcing any win here. I don't know why people DO. I have never understood the need to "boast " (read"sharing your joy" - but...) to people you don't know. Sure tell the people you KNOW here - but otherwise it's like telling people on facebook you won the eurolottery. 99% of those who see the post will not be happy for you- why WOULD all these strangers give a toss - but they WILL want some of what you've got.

Edited January 6, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[AnanoKimi]

Maybe I'm being naif but I always thought of the Prizes as Holiday-related. For example, we just spent a couple of weeks during the holidays event earning raffle entries. There wouldn't be Prizes without the raffle, there wouldn't be raffle without the holidays. So, why wouldn't the Prizes behave like Holidays from a multi clutch point of view? Why should be ok for the owner of a CB Holly to not have control over the offspring and not ok for the owner of a Prize?

Well only TJ can truly confirm why the Christmas Holiday time was chosen because technically you can have a raffle at any point in time but I guess seeing as generally Christmas is that giving time and aside from valentines and Halloween its a time where many sites celebrae with events, games, contests, it seemed a better time to place a raffle and such. Thats the way I see it.

 

Also, sorry Sock if the harassment issue is once again getting out of hand. I believe we have reached the end of this discussion.

 

In terms of the topic I do suggest many check out the BSA for Moonstones about Multiclutching as I feel it would be a far better solution to this suggestion that forcing it upon people as a breed wide occurrence like it used to be.

[DarkEternity]

Maybe I'm being naif but I always thought of the Prizes as Holiday-related. For example, we just spent a couple of weeks during the holidays event earning raffle entries. There wouldn't be Prizes without the raffle, there wouldn't be raffle without the holidays.  So, why wouldn't the Prizes behave like Holidays from a multi clutch point of view? Why should be ok for the owner of a CB Holly to not have control over the offspring and not ok for the owner of a Prize?

The argument made is that it is perceived that we made the choice in our HM to choose something which multiclutches as compared to the change being made at a later date.

 

However, I don't see multiclutching as a form of punishment because every year more prize dragons are added, each one of these will produce more eggs that a singular prize owner cannot control. Objectively, there is no difference between multiclutching and introducing more prize winners as each one will produce more second generation eggs (thus 'devaluing' them as some would put it.)

 

The only difference here is that the eggs are a perceived loss because the egg 'could have been' selected, whereas if another prize winner bred an egg that would have been an accepted loss because there is implied ownership and it was never yours to begin with. Similarly, the fact that holidays multiclutch is an accepted precedent.

 

This is the analogy I use.

 

Multiclutching = A person wins 2 million dollars in a lottery. 1 million of this is taxed and redistributed to other people.

 

More winners = Two people each win 1 million dollars.

 

In the latter scenario, the two people (more winners) are happier because they don't experience 'a loss' even if the amounts that they have won are the same as the first case.

Edited January 6, 2015 by DarkEternity

[_Sin_]

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=147040

 

Report it.

Thank you. That thread is extremely useful on defining what "harassment" is. Asking for multi clutching or politely contacting people (that didn't ask to avoid that) IS NOT.

[AnanoKimi]

The argument made is that it is perceived that we made the choice in our HM to choose something which multiclutches as compared to the change being made at a later date.

 

However, I don't see multiclutching as a form of punishment because every year more prize dragons are added, each one of these will produce more eggs that a singular prize owner cannot control. Objectively, there is no difference between multiclutching and introducing more prize winners as each one will produce more second generation eggs (thus 'devaluing' them as some would put it.)

 

The only difference here is that the eggs are a perceived loss because the egg 'could have been' selected, whereas if another prize winner bred an egg that would have been an accepted loss because there is implied ownership and it was never yours to begin with. Similarly, the fact that holidays multiclutch is an accepted precedent.

 

This is the analogy I use.

 

Multiclutching = A person wins 2 million dollars in a lottery. 1 million of this is taxed and redistributed to other people.

 

More winners = Two people each win 1 million dollars.

 

In the latter scenario, the two people (more winners) are happier because they don't experience 'a loss' even if the amounts that they have won are the same.

A good response to this is what whitebaron said:

 

If I had a CB prize, and this proposal was in action, you can damn well be sure I'd breed it only once. For myself. And hope for no second prize egg.

 

You make it seem like every prize owner needs to make profit or gifts of his dragons, which is obviously NOT true.

 

As for the casual players without connections: they most likely won't scour the AP, and thus won't get those extra prizes you refer to.

 

This is not the lottery, this is a game that allows players to play it as they desire with certain reasonable limits. Imposing thisrule on players who do not want their eggs landing in just random hands is unfair because the group of people who get this approved are dictating how they should breed their prize dragon in terms of "Either breed and give us one aside from th one you get, Breed and pray you only get one shiny, or dont breed and miss out on doing whatever you want to do with the dragon that you own."

 

I see many people saying, "If they dont want their prizes to multi clutch then dont breed them." Well its sounds no different than "Well if being unable to do x lineage bothers them they they should just not do it." We should not dictate how people should breed their dragons, who they should gift to, if they should gift at all, if they should make a profit, or do nothing at all with them.

 

We should not dictate how anyone does anything in this game unless it clearly violates the rules.

[Starscream]

Maybe I'm being naif but I always thought of the Prizes as Holiday-related. For example, we just spent a couple of weeks during the holidays event earning raffle entries. There wouldn't be Prizes without the raffle, there wouldn't be raffle without the holidays.  So, why wouldn't the Prizes behave like Holidays from a multi clutch point of view?

Prizes breed true all year long. Holidays do not except their specific period. Unless you wish for prizes to only breed true during a week a year... they are not holiday.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Starscream

[Fuzzbucket]

We should not dictate how anyone does anything in this game unless it clearly violates the rules.

I do agree with this actually. Even though it means people may share less than I would personally like. (For niceness, not for getting me what I want !)

 

To whomever said "who says sharing is good ?" - we are taught that in nursery school: Share your toys.

Some day you may NEED someone to share with you. No man is an island...

 

But yes to Starscream. they aren't holidays. Fair enough.