ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[whitebaron]

Because we can never have coal tinsels so that would be off/unfair. Plus, some people are worried that the coal version will effect the value of the metallics. And honestly, it's impossible to prove that one way or another without actually doing it. Plus, you do this new one, once and you never need to worry about it again.

A new one will never get people to forget that which they cannot have.

a cb consolation that can only be had in limited edition, is pretty much the same thing as a cb holiday - nothing special, as it does not even share the sprite!

[Fuzzbucket]

Because we can never have coal tinsels so that would be off/unfair. Plus, some people are worried that the coal version will effect the value of the metallics. And honestly, it's impossible to prove that one way or another without actually doing it. Plus, you do this new one, once and you never need to worry about it again.

PLEASE let this decision not hinge on "value".....

[Ashes The Second]

PLEASE let this decision not hinge on "value".....

value is a relative term anyway; we are giving "false value" to dragons and eggs if you count lineages. You are not paying for the pixel, you are paying for it's lineage, which technically doesn't adhere to the "dragon collecting/trading game" advertised.

 

So if it hinges on value, why? Why not just get a sprite and be done with it? (with fuzz here, if that wasn't clear).

[Tawanda001]

Just because I can't have a coal tinsel shouldn't mean I can't have a coal shimmer. The one really has nothing to do with the other.

 

Not to mention just having one simplifies things. No having to choose, no fussing that it will take years and years to get a complete set, no hard feelings because you got one type when you really, really wanted the other. No possibility that one type of coal (or the progeny) might wind up with more trade value than the other, etc.

 

I also don't believe that coals will have any real effect on the value of the metallic shimmers, it's one of the largest reasons i think of this as only a partial solution.

It will alleviate some of the disappointment of people not winning, but it won't do much to keep people from still wanting the extremely rare and difficult to get 2gs from the actual prizes, offering crazy amounts of rares to get them.

People aren't after them just because they are pretty, they want them for the exclusiveness and for the opportunity to build the lineages of their choice with the metallics, coals won't change those desires.

[Ruby Eyes]

The ZOMG black shimmers seems to be a lot of NEED MORE PRETTY EASTERNS!!1!!11! Which is true and more need to be introduced to the cave pronto (I've got high hopes for monthly releases this year ), but I don't think consolation prizes is the right way to go about it.

ZOMG Black Shimmers!

 

I say, why not? This would be like the chocolate Sweetlings for people whose scroll glitched at a specific point in time - I mean, which other holiday dragon has an alt version that people other than the spriters own? Only difference to the alt Sweetlings would be that Coals should just produce Coals - since they would not exactly be alts but their own breed.

 

How can I compare these? One word: Effort!

In case of the Sweetlings, people who put an effort on catching eggs from the cave and "did not succeed" (by way of the glitch) got a consolation prize that seems rather popular these days for lineage projects.

In case of Prizes, people who put an effort to collect their raffle tickets and did not win could get this coaly Shimmer instead. It's just like saying, you were there and qualified, here's your proof.

 

Granted, the numbers are not exactly the same: pink Sweetlings are probably much more common than chocolate Sweetlings (or Gothlings, I've seen them called somewhere), but then again, the CB shiny Shimmers (and Tinsels, for that matter) are *meant* to be less common than any potential consolation prize, whatever they may be.

 

ZOMG Black Shimmers! The idea in itself makes me giggle like mad!

[Likewise]

I honestly would prefer a whole new species if we were to do a consolation prize. It just makes more sense to me. I honestly don't think a consolation prize is necessary, or that it will solve any of the problems brought up in other threads, but if we have to have it to make people happy, it would be pretty lame if it was just a re-color. I also don't think a black Shimmer would fit with the dragon's lore very well. They're supposed to be bright, not dark.

[CNR4806]

I honestly would prefer a whole new species if we were to do a consolation prize. It just makes more sense to me. I honestly don't think a consolation prize is necessary, or that it will solve any of the problems brought up in other threads, but if we have to have it to make people happy, it would be pretty lame if it was just a re-color. I also don't think a black Shimmer would fit with the dragon's lore very well. They're supposed to be bright, not dark.

Having the consolation being a different species raises another problem on its own: What about the winners?

 

It's basically the "HM winner get no prize-type dargon at all" problem magnified to the scope of all raffle winners. They're supposed to be winners, but there's an entirely different breed that they can't get at all without waiting for next year?

 

 

And, while it may not fit the lore for tinsels (which Marri is not going to sprite a black version anyway), you may have to consider that Jewel, the original Shimmerscale design that would have been released to the public had it not been chosen as a prize dragon, is rather dark.

[Syphoneira]

Having the consolation being a different species raises another problem on its own: What about the winners?

 

It's basically the "HM winner get no prize-type dargon at all" problem magnified to the scope of all raffle winners. They're supposed to be winners, but there's an entirely different breed that they can't get at all without waiting for next year?

 

 

And, while it may not fit the lore for tinsels (which Marri is not going to sprite a black version anyway), you may have to consider that Jewel, the original Shimmerscale design that would have been released to the public had it not been chosen as a prize dragon, is rather dark.

 

 

Seriously, the poor winners don't get a consolation Prize?

 

Thanks, I did need a giggle about now!

[CNR4806]

 

Seriously, the poor winners don't get a consolation Prize?

 

Thanks, I did need a giggle about now!

Yeah, have a good one.

 

A consolation prize should not be unique to the level that it's something else entirely, that is all I have to say on the matter.

[Psykotika]

Don't we already kinda have a "consolation prize" in the christmas release?

[Prince_Xanthius]

I think we need a consolation prize species as I said before (well, to be honest I think that something like multiclutching prizes is a better idea, in order to drive down the value of low gen eggs but I digress). Preferably a species that doesn't change every year, or indeed at all. And given it is a consolation prize, the winners shouldn't get it. So if you are a winner you need to wait an entire year in order to get one, but I think that the fact you have just won what basically amounts to a mint that will all but print money for you for several years should console you for that single year you have to wait.

 

Unlike, you know the absolutely forever that is the time period most of DC will have to wait to get a CB Prize.

 

HM winners should be welcome to choose a consolation prize if they wish to however.

 

Edit: The thing is that the Christmas release is taken for granted, and also it is done long before the raffle is actually drawn, so doesn't really stem peoples disappointment. I'd kind of like the raffle to simply be done away with but at this point you kinda can't without mayhem ensuing. Mostly people need to learn to lose gracefully, but given the outrage the raffle always causes, I think we need to come up with a solution

Edited February 25, 2014 by Prince_Xanthius

[Syphoneira]

I think we need a consolation prize species as I said before (well, to be honest I think that something like multiclutching prizes is a better idea, in order to drive down the value of low gen eggs but I digress). Preferably a species that doesn't change every year, or indeed at all. And given it is a consolation prize, the winners shouldn't get it. So if you are a winner you need to wait an entire year in order to get one, but I  think that the fact you have just won what basically amounts to a mint that will all but print money for you for several years should console you for that single year you have to wait.

 

Unlike, you know the absolutely forever that is the time period most of DC will have to wait to get a CB Prize.

 

HM winners should be welcome to choose a consolation prize if they wish to however.

 

Edit: The thing is that the Christmas release is taken for granted, and also it is done long before the raffle is actually drawn, so doesn't really stem peoples disappointment. I'd kind of like the raffle to simply be done away with but at this point you kinda can't without mayhem ensuing. Mostly people need to learn to lose gracefully, but given the outrage the raffle always causes, I think we need to come up with a solution

 

 

 

The problem with the Raffle isn't that everyone can't win, but that with the low relative numbers of CB Prizes, attrition of CB owners and lousy reproduction rates, owners can't fill lists in a timely manner, (people on lists from the first Prizes have apparently been waiting several YEARS now,) people can't get low-gens of the right lineages, never mind 2nd gens for lineages, typically have been trying to get them over years and are generally looking at years more of waiting, if they ever get them at all - and many can never hope to, at current breeding rates and, in consequence, insane prices, due to desperate people who are fast catchers trying to get on lists which are not moving to make room for them.

 

This is a group of fanatic collectors who want new dragons NAOW, and while many of us were resigned (so far as is possible among such a group) to waiting months following the first Prize distribution to get any offspring at all, many have had to abandon initial plans of getting one of each line and lower their sights to trying to get on any 2nd gen list and are (edit: often) still finding it impossible.

 

A consolation Prize recolour of the Shimmers might not fix that, or improve the disparity or the unfortunate change overtaking DC as it turns from a dragon-collecting family site into a stock market site where dragons are no longer valued for themselves but for what their trade worth might be, although it might make a large number of people feel a little less shut out of everything.

 

The ZOMG Black Shimmers are stunning, and I do think that everyone would love to have them, especially getting one every year, where not only checkers but PBs might become possible (where Refusals are not an issue,) so that would give people something to be excited about and make plans for, rather than merely realizing that they can't get on any breeding lists again this year, either.

 

So, I don't think consolation Prizes would be a fix, but they would make a lovely band-aid.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Sheriziya]

So, I don't think consolation Prizes would be a fix, but they would make a lovely band-aid.

/* patches a big Black Shimmer band-aid on her scratched arm and does the little happy dance */

 

I so totally agree

[Marrionetta]

I'd like to gently posit once again that I'm strongly opposed to this suggestion.

 

Not winning a free raffle does not leave you with anything less than you entered into it with. Nobody earned their prize dragons, they simply got lucky within the same odds and infrastructure everyone else did, and therefore nobody needs to 'feel bad they didn't win.' You've lost literally nothing. You don't need to be coddled. You don't need consolation prizes. I promise you will be ok.

 

Winning should be viewed a fun cherry-on-top sort of ordeal, not as the only acceptable outcome when the odds are most certainly not ever in your favor.

[Syphoneira]

Yeah, have a good one.

 

A consolation prize should not be unique to the level that it's something else entirely, that is all I have to say on the matter.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, the recolouring was specifically done because various owners and others felt that any postulated public release of any kind involving Prize dragons should have the sprites altered so as to be easily recognizable as NOT being the special awarded raffle Prizes

 

- but once one sprite becomes recoloured so as to be at a glance clearly NOT the special awarded raffle Prizes,

 

they become unfair to winners who have to make do ONLY with the special awarded raffle Prizes while everybody else entered gets the 'common' one;

 

meanwhile some people don't even want increased Prize breeding/multiclutches because of fears that insane trading prices would reduce to something within the range of more people than could actually get on lists anyway, (even if 2nd-gens were more regularly produced by the very few existing CB Prize dragons relative to the population,) on the grounds they'd become 'more common',

 

yet if it's proposed that everyone who doesn't win gets a recoloured consolation prize, they shouldn't, because it's unfair that the poor winners 'only' get the insanely rare version and not the 'common' one?

 

We've heard several owners complaining that they don't have enough exclusivity, don't like the idea of anyone else having any more of the same CB Prize sprites as they do, don't want their babies to be 'too common' and whatever else - why would it be unfair for the winners to not get a 'common' consolation Prize when at least some would surely not want anything to do with a 'common' version?

 

 

Anyway, no need for it to be a consolation Prize; why not let it be a living, breeding draconic attendance bonus of raffle entry every year and let everyone have one?

 

 

Edit: that makes good sense, in a Prize raffle of this type - since the dragons don't need to be donated by businesses or bought with proceeds from ticket sales, everyone gets a Prize at the door, and a few people win the big Prizes - hardly an unusual concept.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Syphoneira

[King_Max_Cat]

but once one sprite becomes recoloured so as to be at a glance clearly NOT the special awarded raffle Prizes,

 

Anyway, no need for it to be a consolation Prize; why not let it be a living, breeding draconic attendance bonus of raffle entry every year and let everyone have one?

(emphasis added by me)

 

YES! I support this 100%! Everyone gets one so that literally NO ONE can say this is unfair; it'd be kind of like the holiday dragons (Everyone gets on if they're online and active during the specific time). I don't think this will solve 100% of griping on the forums but it'll quiet people down methinks...

Edited February 26, 2014 by King_Max_Cat

[MedievalMystic]

Don't we already kinda have a "consolation prize" in the christmas release?

 

Indeed.

 

 

Everyone gets one so that literally NO ONE can say this is unfair;

 

Who in the world promised people that everything, everywhere, no matter what, all the time, 24/7, 365 days a year would always be 'fair'? It's more than FAIR that we all have a chance to win something on DC.

Edited February 26, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Jazeki]

Don't we already kinda have a "consolation prize" in the christmas release?

Except that these are scheduled releases that have been happening since long before raffles were an existing event. They're prized, yes. But not prizes.

[DarkPhoenixInnocent]

I very much want a coal version of at least the Shimmer-scale.

 

In my humble opinion Tinsels wouldn't look too good as 'coal'

 

I would like to see this either as a "thanks for entering, have an egg" kind of thing or released in the cave.

 

Admittedly this is less wanting a prize and more wanting Easterns and the Shimmer-scales are not only Easterns they're just really boss.

[Ashywolf]

Don't we already kinda have a "consolation prize" in the christmas release?

I feel like that is kind of like saying "The consolation is that DC exists." Those are two fairly unrelated subjects.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd like to gently posit once again that I'm strongly opposed to this suggestion.

 

Not winning a free raffle does not leave you with anything less than you entered into it with. Nobody earned their prize dragons, they simply got lucky within the same odds and infrastructure everyone else did, and therefore nobody needs to 'feel bad they didn't win.' You've lost literally nothing. You don't need to be coddled. You don't need consolation prizes. I promise you will be ok.

 

Winning should be viewed a fun cherry-on-top sort of ordeal, not as the only acceptable outcome when the odds are most certainly not ever in your favor.

Agree 100% with this.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

My burning desire for black shimmers has decreased significantly with the release of this year's beautiful quasi-eastern Valentine's dragons.

 

That being said, I still think it would be a cute idea, and it certainly wouldn't hurt anyone, so why not?

[KageSora]

YES! I support this 100%! Everyone gets one so that literally NO ONE can say this is unfair; it'd be kind of like the holiday dragons (Everyone gets on if they're online and active during the specific time). I don't think this will solve 100% of griping on the forums but it'll quiet people down methinks...

Except how is it fair that winners get TWO dragons out of the raffle?

 

If you win, you get your prize. You don't need a second dragon.

 

It will not stop the complaining, because it will be a different dragon, not the dragon that people are already upset that they can't get. People will still be upset that they can't get 2nd gen prize dragons because this is not a prize dragon. It will not stop the people who are upset from voicing that they're upset.

 

All it will do is add one more thing for people to be upset about--that winners and HMs get two free dragons, while everybody else only gets one.

 

I'd like to gently posit once again that I'm strongly opposed to this suggestion.

 

Not winning a free raffle does not leave you with anything less than you entered into it with.  Nobody earned their prize dragons, they simply got lucky within the same odds and infrastructure everyone else did, and therefore nobody needs to 'feel bad they didn't win.'  You've lost literally nothing.  You don't need to be coddled.  You don't need consolation prizes.  I promise you will be ok.

 

Winning should be viewed a fun cherry-on-top sort of ordeal, not as the only acceptable outcome when the odds are most certainly not ever in your favor.

I fully agree with this.

[LadyFoxfire]

I have to agree with Cyradis that the 1/2/3 and HM winners should get their prize or HM along WITH the participation coal shimmer, while the participants that didn't win anything just get the coal shimmer, otherwise, you're sort of penalizing the prize winners and they did participate, so they should get the participation dragon along with what they win. It sounds more than fair to me and I love the idea of a participation dragon for bothering to join in and do your best. I think it should only be given to those who do reach the highest level of winning a raffle ticket though, not just to anyone who clicks on the event and then doesn't bother to do much with it.

 

Not to mention - how beautiful would the coals look paired with the silvers in particular, but with bronzes and golds as well.

 

Would the coal shimmer be a shiny? That would really be awesome.

Edited February 26, 2014 by LadyFoxfire

[Slaskia]

Hm...what if...if there are new prize breeds in the future, the gold/silver/bronze prize is treated like a spriter's alt and a non-metal colored version was released at the same time they winners get theirs?

 

That way, everyone has a chance at a CB (from the cave release version), the winners have something special, but won't have the strangle hold on the market like the current ones do.

 

I say 'if there are new ones', as I'm one of those opposed adding more CB exclusives like these (heck, I was one of those that was very much opposed to the existence of prize dragons at all). But, if there will be more prize breeds, this is how I would rather it be done.

 

Of course, the tinsels and shimmers would have to remain as they are, as I seriously doubt ANYONE would agree to offspring suddenly changing retroactively (would see the forums blowing up worse than when the golds were 'updated').

 

Just a suggestion...don't bite me too hard for it....