ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[cyradis4]

I really don't think this will help. People do not want a consolation prize - they want the prize. They want all that comes with it. From easy trading, ability to make special lineages and to the dragon being special in itself. Prizes are special because they are rare and because only a number of people have them. Giving out consolation prizes to everyone would mean that they aren't special anymore, or at least not as special as "real" prizes. And so the winefest would again be on, only people would push for something different. That's what happens when you release an exclusive dragon in collectible game.

As others have posted, it won't hurt, and anything that has the possibility to help is a good thing.

 

I've participated in many contests, and I love the ones with a participation prize the best. I never actually win said contests, but if you don't play, you can't win. Having a participation prize really DOES take the sting out of loosing. I know: been there, done that. And this is a GAME. So anything that does take the sting out of loosing, or could take the sting out, is A Good Thing and should be considered. Why? Cuz its a game!

 

As for who would get it: I'd have it given out to each user who won at least one raffle ticket. I feel strongly about this. Why? Because that way, no one is left out. The extra Coals make no difference, and it still keeps the Prizes as the Prizes.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[WraithZephyr]

As for the suggestion for scroll locking like the Guardians or the holidays:

This would mean that you can only get a CB consolation prize from the first raffle with consolation prizes you participate in, assuming the prize dragons wouldn't change and we'd keep the Shimmers as consolation prizes. That would mean we'll have all the drama back with the next raffle..... In my opinion that wouldn't work. Either you can get the consolation prize with every raffle (if you're not a 1/2/3 prize winner) or you the idea of the consolation prize won't work.

 

People are free to do what they want with their prize dragons. Why wouldn't they be free to do what they want with their consolation prize? I see no difference there. We don't have measures to keep prize winners from killing/gifting/AP-ing/biting/etc their CB prizes. So why would we limit the possibilities for the consolation prizes?

Yes, it would not work if it was scroll bound. It's a participation award and not fun if you participate and can't get anything because you participated the year before. Needs to be an every-year thing.

 

The big prize winners would be the exception to that because the value of the offspring from their prizes offsets the lack of a coal dragon. More than likely if a big prize winner REALLY just "had to have" a coal dragon on top of their prize, they could easily do an IOU of the first 2nd gen baby. Any person doing such a trade gets a valuable 2nd gen for their CB coal so they are obviously not feeling cheated or left out by no longer having a coal - they know they can always get another coal the following year.

 

 

Personally, though, I dislike the idea of them just being given out to everybody who didn't win.  I'd much rather see them released in the cave or something.  I don't like the idea of "you participated, here's your free dragon!"

The cave release is for the Christmas dragon. People would complain and cry that they couldn't "catch" a coal dragon blah blah blah.

 

People have to complete a task in order to get the raffle ticket just for the CHANCE to win a big prize. They worked for that ticket, but that ticket doesn't guarantee they will get anything out of it. What is so wrong with giving people a coal dragon for having jumped through all the hoops? Their effort to earn the coal dragon is their payment. It's not "free". Someone who doesn't bother to jump through all the hoops obviously would not get a coal dragon because they didn't work for it.

Edited February 7, 2014 by WraithZephyr

[Sheriziya]

We could even add an option you have to have reached a certain level. If I remember correctly this was already the case with the last raffle where you had to have reached level 25 of the fort to "get" a ticket in the raffle.

 

So, indeed, it's not like the non-winners would have done nothing. They participated

[tjekan]

I really don't think this will help. People do not want a consolation prize - they want the prize.

Not to underestimate the ability of an online community to continue complaining in the face of all logic, but I see two very good indicators that this isn't likely to be the case:

 

1) I've never seen anyone on DragonCave complain about winning an honorable mention, which also does not give you a prize,

 

and

 

2) I've seen other online games with consolation prizes and the reaction is overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Princess_Pinkie]

Not to underestimate the ability of an online community to continue complaining in the face of all logic, but I see two very good indicators that this isn't likely to be the case:

 

1) I've never seen anyone on DragonCave complain about winning an honorable mention, which also does not give you a prize,

 

and

 

2) I've seen other online games with consolation prizes and the reaction is overwhelmingly positive.

i agree that it wouldn't be all that bad, but doooooooooooon't use HMs as a comparison.

 

HMs can get you one thing that almost rivals a CB prize - a CB Holly. that is a prize, because i don't know about you but 2Gs from Hollies that i've seen go for just about as much as a 2G prize. not to mention that other HMs (like CB Alts) are much fewer in number than CB Prizes.

[Tawanda001]

I think it's not that they won't want a consolation prize, it's that having a consolation prize won't stop people from still doing their darndest to get low gens from the actual CB prizes. It won't change that desire at all for a lot of people.

So while it may make a lot of people feel a little better about not winning, it won't do a lot change the trading and lineage problems like we currently have.

Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled to see this happen, but only as an addition to some other possible solution. By itself I don't think it's enough.

[Jazeki]

I am in support of a coal variant as a consolation prize, not from the perspective of a sore loser who needs a distraction from the fact that I didn't win, but simply because it's nice to have something more than a little badge for participating. I also think that winners should be excluded from that year's coal dragon, but can get them the following year. I also think they should have offspring that is the color of the closest normal variant like Penk and Jewel do.

[cyradis4]

I am in support of a coal variant as a consolation prize, not from the perspective of a sore loser who needs a distraction from the fact that I didn't win, but simply because it's nice to have something more than a little badge for participating. I also think that winners should be excluded from that year's coal dragon, but can get them the following year. I also think they should have offspring that is the color of the closest normal variant like Penk and Jewel do.

Having a coal Shimmer breed a Silver Shimmer kinda defeats the purpose of breeding coals for lineages.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cyradis4

[Jazeki]

Having a coal Shimmer breed a Silver Shimmer kinda defeats the purpose.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I was thinking of it as a kind of spriter's alt or like an alt sweetling type of thing where the color is scroll locked since you're getting the prize variant for participating in the event. Coal colored offspring are nice, but I thought the emphasis was on having a prize that is CB (even if it is a participation/ consolation prize). I don't care how this pans out either way though if it does. That's just my understanding of it.

[dragongrrl]

I am in support of a coal variant as a consolation prize, not from the perspective of a sore loser who needs a distraction from the fact that I didn't win, but simply because it's nice to have something more than a little badge for participating. I also think that winners should be excluded from that year's coal dragon, but can get them the following year. I also think they should have offspring that is the color of the closest normal variant like Penk and Jewel do.

I guess I've already visualized this as a shiny black dragon, with that almost sparkly sheen that coal or a charred piece of wood sometime has, and I'd want Coal Shimmers to breed true, unlike Jewel or Penk.

 

I used to belong to a group that had a luncheon once a month. There were generally about 100-150 people, and every month, they would raffle three items. Everyone had some sort of favor by their plates when they came in, so everyone who was there got at least a little something to take home from the event. I never won any of the raffles there, either, although I attended for several years. But I think the Coals would be like those nice little favors. <3

 

Withholding them from the Prize winners? No, everyone who participates in the event should get one, across the board. It seems kind of reverse-elitism to exclude them, even if they were the "lucky" ones.

[cyradis4]

I was thinking of it as a kind of spriter's alt or like an alt sweetling type of thing where the color is scroll locked since you're getting the prize variant for participating in the event. Coal colored offspring are nice, but I thought the emphasis was on having a prize that is CB (even if it is a participation/ consolation prize). I don't care how this pans out either way though if it does. That's just my understanding of it.

Spriter's Alts and Alt Sweetlings only appeal to a small number of players because they don't breed true. Same with Snow Angels. The Snow Angels in particular have created a lot of whining. Understandably.

 

So, I personally see the best solution being to have them breed true, just like true Prizes. The Coalkins would be regular dragons, just distributed differently.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Tawanda001]

I was thinking of it as a kind of spriter's alt or like an alt sweetling type of thing where the color is scroll locked since you're getting the prize variant for participating in the event. Coal colored offspring are nice, but I thought the emphasis was on having a prize that is CB (even if it is a participation/ consolation  prize).  I don't care how this pans out either way though if it does. That's just my understanding of it. 

Interesting idea, but considering the fuss over snow angel wings I can see that as only adding to the drama. Especially when the prizes have perceived value based on color, gold> silver> bronze. I can hear the uproar from the people who get the bronze variant now, lol.

 

Have you seen the amount of slobbering over the mere thought of shiny black shimmers going on in this thread? How many posts were like "Don't think it would do any good but *slobber* SHINY BLACK SHIMMERS!!!!! *slobber* so I support"

Tawanda wipes the tell tale slobber from her chin Edited February 7, 2014 by Tawanda001

[cyradis4]

Interesting idea, but considering the fuss over snow angel wings I can see that as only adding to the drama. Especially when the prizes have perceived value based on color, gold> silver> bronze. I can hear the uproar from the people who get the bronze variant now, lol.

Just Bronze? Say better, a huge number of lineage aficionados and anyone who likes black dragons!

 

Have you seen the amount of slobbering over the mere thought of shiny black shimmers going on in this thread? How many posts were like "Don't think it would do any good but *slobber* SHINY BLACK SHIMMERS!!!!! *slobber* so I support"

 

 

I hope Mysfyt is reading the thread, her sprites are getting a lot of love.

 

And that reaction is part of what this thread is aiming for. If the black shimmer is a gorgeous sprite (if its shiny I don't see how it could fail at that), it will have people slobbering all over it. And when people get excited about something, even a "lesser" prize, they tend to forget about the greater disappointment of not getting the grand prize. I know I certainly do!

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cyradis4

[Jazeki]

I guess I've already visualized this as a shiny black dragon, with that almost sparkly sheen that coal or a charred piece of wood sometime has, and I'd want Coal Shimmers to breed true, unlike Jewel or Penk.

 

I used to belong to a group that had a luncheon once a month. There were generally about 100-150 people, and every month, they would raffle three items. Everyone had some sort of favor by their plates when they came in, so everyone who was there got at least a little something to take home from the event. I never won any of the raffles there, either, although I attended for several years. But I think the Coals would be like those nice little favors. <3

 

Withholding them from the Prize winners? No, everyone who participates in the event should get one, across the board. It seems kind of reverse-elitism to exclude them, even if they were the "lucky" ones.

I don't think it's reverse elitism. The winners have their prizes that they got for participating. these are just a separate color prize. And they would be able to get a coal the following year. Sorry for any caps issues as I am on my phone...but as I said before I really don't care how it's implemented. that was just what I would like to see based on the understanding of "you participated, you get this color cb prize."

 

@C4- yes, I am aware that not everyone likes them and that they cause a lot of whining and breeding true is nice for dc as a whole, but deep down many people want the special feeling of having a cb prize. creating nice lineages is really beyond the scope of the winner's scroll after a point and kind of just an after effect of having a cb prize.

[Sheriziya]

The breeding result of the coal version hasn't come up in the "improve the raffle" thread, I think, but I've always thought the coal version would breed true. Like C4 already said, what would be the point if they'd breed bronze/silver/gold. I think if that would happen all winners would be against the coals because they wouldn't be able to have that big luck on the market.......

[Jazeki]

The breeding result of the coal version hasn't come up in the "improve the raffle" thread, I think, but I've always thought the coal version would breed true. Like C4 already said, what would be the point if they'd breed bronze/silver/gold. I think if that would happen all winners would be against the coals because they wouldn't be able to have that big luck on the market.......

I hate how breeding color is reduced to trade market value. Breeding results aside, the real point of this suggestion is to provide people that didn't win a cb prize or hm with their own cb pretty for participating. I support that.

[Cendaquenta]

Er, add me to the "Black Shimmer, DO WANT" group. I also think it'd help with the griping over there not being a January release due to the raffles, as for all intents and purposes it would be the Jan release.

Another idea - perhaps if there's another Snow-Wars-like event with levels, the coal Shimmer could be given out to those who reach the top level, or halfway level? That way it would still be a "prize" for something, while still being obtainable to anyone online during that period.

(And on the breeding true thing - yes. It's just... easier that way.)

[cyradis4]

Er, add me to the "Black Shimmer, DO WANT" group.      I also think it'd help with the griping over there not being a January release due to the raffles, as for all intents and purposes it would be the Jan release.

Another idea - perhaps if there's another Snow-Wars-like event with levels, the coal Shimmer could be given out to those who reach the top level, or halfway level? That way it would still be a "prize" for something, while still being obtainable to anyone online during that period.

(And on the breeding true thing - yes. It's just... easier that way.)

That, and count me into the group of people who abhors dragons that can't breed true. If there's a chance of (with patience) getting Dragon A to breed true, but there's a chance of Dragon B, then I'm fine. Its when you can't get a repeat of the parent that I really dislike.

 

Re: raffle levels. I think, we need to leave that sort of specifics up to TJ. Really, I think the only fair way to do it is by raffle tickets. If you get a raffle ticket, you get a Consolation.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 7, 2014 by cyradis4

[olympe]

I feel that coal shimmers would be a win-win. Pity we won't ever have coal tinsels, though.

[KageSora]

Yes, it would not work if it was scroll bound. It's a participation award and not fun if you participate and can't get anything because you participated the year before. Needs to be an every-year thing.

 

The big prize winners would be the exception to that because the value of the offspring from their prizes offsets the lack of a coal dragon. More than likely if a big prize winner REALLY just "had to have" a coal dragon on top of their prize, they could easily do an IOU of the first 2nd gen baby. Any person doing such a trade gets a valuable 2nd gen for their CB coal so they are obviously not feeling cheated or left out by no longer having a coal - they know they can always get another coal the following year.

 

 

 

The cave release is for the Christmas dragon. People would complain and cry that they couldn't "catch" a coal dragon blah blah blah.

 

People have to complete a task in order to get the raffle ticket just for the CHANCE to win a big prize. They worked for that ticket, but that ticket doesn't guarantee they will get anything out of it. What is so wrong with giving people a coal dragon for having jumped through all the hoops? Their effort to earn the coal dragon is their payment. It's not "free". Someone who doesn't bother to jump through all the hoops obviously would not get a coal dragon because they didn't work for it.

Let's face it--people will complain no matter what.

 

I'd personally rather see like, instead of a January release/no release, just let them be available in the cave all January or something.

 

I just dislike the idea of free dragons. Your "prize" for participation is you get a nice little badge, and a shot at winning something cool.

 

I personally, though, just hate the "OH HEY EVERYBODY NEEDS TO WIN SOMETHING JUST FOR PARTICIPATING NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO BE A LOSER" garbage. Not everybody wins, not everybody is special, people need to stop whining when they don't get an award for participation. It's just an idea that I personally really hate--be it in the real world, or in games.

 

 

Withholding them from the Prize winners? No, everyone who participates in the event should get one, across the board. It seems kind of reverse-elitism to exclude them, even if they were the "lucky" ones.

And then you'll have a whole new group of people screaming about how it's so unfair that if you win you get two free, awesome dragons.

 

If you win, you win. You don't NEED a second prize. Your prize is you freakin' won and got a highly desirable dragon that many people will bend over backwards to get a baby from.

[Fuzzbucket]

I personally, though, just hate the "OH HEY EVERYBODY NEEDS TO WIN SOMETHING JUST FOR PARTICIPATING NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO BE A LOSER" garbage.  Not everybody wins, not everybody is special, people need to stop whining when they don't get an award for participation.  It's just an idea that I personally really hate--be it in the real world, or in games.

 

And then you'll have a whole new group of people screaming about how it's so unfair that if you win you get two free, awesome dragons.

 

If you win, you win.  You don't NEED a second prize.  Your prize is you freakin' won and got a highly desirable dragon that many people will bend over backwards to get a baby from.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

 

This idea that no-one is ever allowed to lose is spreading all over (not just here) - like "it's not FAIR that someone else got the job I wanted"; "it's not FAIR that someone scored higher than I did on the exam", "it's not FAIR that someone beat me at tennis."

 

There are winners and losers everywhere. People need to accept that. In all walks of life - and that includes raffles.

Edited February 7, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[cyradis4]

Let's face it--people will complain no matter what.

 

I'd personally rather see like, instead of a January release/no release, just let them be available in the cave all January or something.

 

I just dislike the idea of free dragons. Your "prize" for participation is you get a nice little badge, and a shot at winning something cool.

 

I personally, though, just hate the "OH HEY EVERYBODY NEEDS TO WIN SOMETHING JUST FOR PARTICIPATING NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO BE A LOSER" garbage. Not everybody wins, not everybody is special, people need to stop whining when they don't get an award for participation. It's just an idea that I personally really hate--be it in the real world, or in games.

 

 

 

And then you'll have a whole new group of people screaming about how it's so unfair that if you win you get two free, awesome dragons.

 

If you win, you win. You don't NEED a second prize. Your prize is you freakin' won and got a highly desirable dragon that many people will bend over backwards to get a baby from.

HA! 99.9% of the userbase will still be losers. They'll just have something shiny to distract them.

 

As for the rest... This is an online game that people play to escape real life. Why on earth would it have to mimic real life? And why should there be an automatic, large bias in favor of a very small, randomly chosen few?

 

As for the "not everyone is special" comment.... There are three, and only three, valid ways of viewing the human race:

1. Nobody is special, so nobody should get special treatment.

2. Everybody is special in their own special way.

3. Some people are specialer than others. I call that bigotry. Everyone is different, and no one is inherently better than someone else. More adept at something particular perhaps, but not "specialer".

(I'm not saying that you are bigoted, only that I personally view that view of the world as a form of bigotry. I favor the first view, no one is special and no one should get special treatment).

 

Not every contest needs participation prizes. But this is a game. An online game. An online game where the contests have created major bad will. This is not real life. Last I checked, there were no Turpentine dragons in the Sahara desert. Nor Canopy dragons in the Amazon River Basin. So, a fantasy game. A fantasy game being rocked by major league bad feelings. Bad feelings a participation prize could greatly diminish.

 

Now, as for the participation prizes and winners getting a participation prize, the HMs make that tricky. My personal view is give everyone one. But you can also give the HMs a chance to pick, the HM or the participation prize. I'd probably pick the participation prize, myself.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[WraithZephyr]

I just dislike the idea of free dragons. Your "prize" for participation is you get a nice little badge, and a shot at winning something cool.

But it's not free... you had to work for it and that took extensive time and effort. Free would be just popping into the site one day and automatically getting a prize for doing absolutely nothing.

[rumor33]

Ehhh, I don't think this works if you cant release coal versions of both dragons. If the coal version reduces the value of Shimmers, even just a bit, it seems unfair to them that Tinsels wont see a reduction in value as well.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

This idea that no-one is ever allowed to lose is spreading all over (not just here) - like "it's not FAIR that someone else got the job I wanted"; "it's not FAIR that someone scored higher than I did on the exam", "it's not FAIR that someone beat me at tennis."

Notice that those are all real life things. Which I play games to escape. Not to be reminded yet again that not everyone can get everything.

 

Rare, challenging--these things are good. Borderline impossible, not so much.

 

(Besides at the end of the day a freebie like this still doesn't equal a balance. It's just a really pretty dragon--at least how I'm imagining it--and I'd love to have one. Back in black, baby!)