Unfreezing

[olympe]

I still say that the unfrozen hatchlings should be allowed to be traded, ONLY if it's a CB for another CB. I have a friend who is a programmer who easil pointed out that there are codes that can track such a thing.

And we get trades like "1 CB frill/BP for 1 CB gold" plus a couple of other CB golds/silvers or 2nd/3rd gen prizes in an extra teleport. Not a good idea IMHO.

[kooky112]

And we get trades like "1 CB frill/BP for 1 CB gold" plus a couple of other CB golds/silvers or 2nd/3rd gen prizes in an extra teleport. Not a good idea IMHO.

I think most people who traded their unfrozen holidays would do it for a gender they need. For instance I need a female christmas dragon (lets face it all I got were boys. I should start naming them all Dasher Dancer Prancer Comet Cupid Donner Blitzen and Rudolph!) NO Vixen becuase that's a girl.

[Chrisabell]

I'm not one for joining arguments, in fact, I probably shouldn't even post but:

 

I don't like the unfreezing thing simply because it was a choice made by the user to do so, however, if it is a possibility to unfreeze, I think that the frozen hatchling should have a time frame, so it's not overly exploited. For instance, the hatchling has to stay frozen for at least 6 months before the Unfreeze can be used.

I figured that since the Soulpeace dragon can 'cure' a zombie (which again was user decision to kill the dragon and try to revive) Why not an unfreeze?

 

I'm not fond of the 'being able to trade the unfrozen' since it would technically be considered an adult. It's not possible to trade adults or frozen, so even unfrozen, it shouldn't be allowed to trade unless both adults and frozens can be, which would disrupt the whole game anyway.

 

I DO like the concept that an unfrozen would still be able to breed though, since putting it in ice is suspended animation, don't think it would hurt it's reproductive skills. o.0 Just an opinion though..

[Ashes The Second]

There ARE efforts on the forum for breeding rares and giving them to those who have none. That's clearly not the goal here.

 

In regard to the ratios: I figure TJ can pretty much handle that himself. It's not like he's actually told us the formula he uses for ratios; he's the only one who knows how they actually work, so it won't exactly help for us to worry about it. If he decides to implement this, I'm quite sure he'd take ratios into account. In any case, my understanding is that the ratios apply to egg generation, not to existing hatchlings.

 

@Thuban: As a 'newer player' (okay, since 2011) who had no opportunity to catch CB Frills, Old Pinks, Hollies, Yulebucks, Snow Angels, Ribbon Dancers, Pumpkins, Marrows, 09 Valentines, Sweetlings, or Rosebuds, I do see this suggestion as helping me indirectly. Why? Because I love 2nd gens. I know I'll never get a CB of these breeds - heck, I'll never get any of the first two. But I am quite happy to get the lowest generation I possibly can of them, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that. More CBs in the mating pool, all owned by active users, is a highly desirable outcome for me. So no, I don't think that seeing this as potentially benefiting new players is a 'joke' at all.

But that is not what anyone in this thread said.

 

You want to put more rares into circulation is what most of you have stated. If you are trying to back out of that assumption you have placed on yourselves, it will not work, because you want them for breeding purposes. That is literally the only reason they would be wanted as adult pixels in the first place, aside from pretty spriting. So you can either say you want to use them to breed, and not help the efforts of those who already have frozens and regardless are vying for a change, or you can join those rare breeding projects because you don't want to mess up something that is not broken.

 

raindear:

 

"Though I am not in favor of this change, I would be very much against making unfrozen hatchlings unbreedable. This would be a slap in the face of those who want this in order to supply more 2 gen holidays to others, whether they intend to gift or trade. We shouldn't make the option unusable to those who want it just because we aren't in favor of the option."

 

OP:

 

"New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool and could collect non-discontinued sprites of a lower generation."

 

shoving a copy-paste answer from the OP does not answer the actual ratio issue, regardless.

 

Screwing up the ratios does not justify this suggestion, again.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Ashes The Second

[Fuzzbucket]

I think most people who traded their unfrozen holidays would do it for a gender they need. For instance I need a female christmas dragon (lets face it all I got were boys. I should start naming them all Dasher Dancer Prancer Comet Cupid Donner Blitzen and Rudolph!) NO Vixen becuase that's a girl.

You cannot GET Christmas dragons of more than one gender except for Hollies. They are ALL single gender. So you can give up on that one !

 

But NO to being able to trade unfrozens - whatever else may happen. Just NO. Those who own them have had them WAY long enough to grow up; you cannot reasonably argue that a 4 year old hatchie is the same as a 7 day old one. The argument is that they would not have been frozen if only we had known. Well, OK - if we had known, they would not have been frozen in the first place - and would have been adults all that time. That is what they should therefore become, if unfrozen. The state they would have been if they had never been frozen at all.

 

A hatchie up for trade, born on Dec 25 2009, with 7 days to go ? I don't think so....

Edited January 6, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[kooky112]

You cannot GET Christmas dragons of more than one gender except for Hollies. They are ALL single gender. So you can give up on that one !

Ah I see thanks for clearing that one up. Either way the whole unfreezing a cb hatchling would still help the newbies get a 2nd gen.

[LibbyLishly]

You want to put more rares into circulation is what most of you have stated. If you are trying to back out of that assumption you have placed on yourselves, it will not work, because you want them for breeding purposes. That is literally the only reason they would be wanted as adult pixels in the first place, aside from pretty spriting. So you can either say you want to use them to breed, and not help the efforts of those who already have frozens and regardless are vying for a change, or you can join those rare breeding projects because you don't want to mess up something that is not broken.

[...]

shoving a copy-paste answer from the OP does not answer the actual ratio issue, regardless.

 

Screwing up the ratios does not justify this suggestion, again.

I think you're misunderstanding something, dear. This isn't an unfreeze-only-your-rares suggestion; if implemented, a player could unfreeze any old dragon they wanted - even a messy-lineaged green. Much of the discussion has been centering around holiday dragons specifically because the raising of the limits on those is what created this topic in the first place. As we know, when holiday breeding season hits, holidays breed true, so ratios are not an issue. All breeding discussion is basically coming back to holiday dragons, and having the CBs of those available to breed is what will help newcomers.

 

Other rares have popped up in conversation with regard to exploitation - CB golds and silvers, for example - but I sincerely don't think there would be enough being unfrozen to affect ratios in the least. ADP posted a very good overview of that a couple pages back.

 

Edits for grammar as usual.

Edited January 6, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[LaHaine]

I have a friend who is a programmer who easil pointed out that there are codes that can track such a thing.

The only programmer that knows how dragon cave's code works is TJ himself. I'm a programmer too and yes I suspect TJ has a system to identify CB and non-CB easily (most probably through checking the database to see if they have parents listed) and could easily do it, but there aren't any pre-programmed codes to track it down, dragon cave is not open-source, TJ does all the coding himself and other programmers can't speak for him. Just wanted to clarify that

 

 

 

In another note, I know for sure I wouldn't trade my cb frozen holidays and retireds lol I probably wouldn't unfreeze the retireds either, I froze them to keep the hatchie and since there's no way to get a hatchie of them now, there's no point in reversing it.

I think hatchies that have been previously frozen shouldn't be allowed to be traded or it's just a very easy-to-abuse system. I can already see how it would be useful for hatchling IOU's. Maybe because they are more fragile and wouldn't be able to resist a teleport? Or something like that to justify it (sorry if it's been suggested, haven't been keeping up with all posts)

[Tawanda001]

All breeding discussion is basically coming back to holiday dragons, and having the CBs of those available to breed is what will help newcomers.

So basically this goes back to 'we want to be able to unfreeze all hatchies' because TJ said he wouldn't make an exception for holidays?

Since this is the first time we have unlimited holidays I think it's jumping the gun to say this needs to be done to help newbs get 2nd gens. Think it has been mentioned numerous times that many players have not been breeding their CB holidays in past years simply because of the tendency for the eggs to disappear or die. Now that limits are gone I think we will see a huge increase in the number of people who go back to breeding those Holiday dragons that have just been sitting on a shelf the last few years. I don't see how adding whatever small number of unfrozen CB yules or SA, etc is going to make that much of a difference.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Tawanda001

[Guillotine]

With several thousand active players, I don't think that it's as small a number of CBs as you think. I suspect that there are at least a few thousand frozen holiday CBs (fewer per breed, obviously, but probably still in the hundreds for most breeds), and a few thousand more dragons being bred and producing anywhere from 1-4 eggs does make it somewhat easier for newbies and players with slower connections to get 2nd gens. Significantly easier? Maybe, maybe not; depends on the number available. But it would get easier to grab them by numbers alone, and more being bred=more being gifted by the breeder as well.

 

IIRC this would make Pumpkins easier to grab as well, since I think I saw a few mentions of them once being unbreedable and being frozen because people thought they'd never get another chance at getting the hatchling sprites.

 

(All numbers are very conservative estimates; I suspect that there are more, but I'm lowballing just in case.)

[Thuban]

I don't know if you consider this "claiming to do it for newer players" which is apparently a "joke" to you, but it's a cut and dry fact that more adults means more breeding. Whether it's through trading or gifting or the AP, there WILL be more rare and uncommon eggs out there because of unfreezing. That's a simple fact.

 

But not if they are unbreedable. Then they are useless, not just to the people who unfreeze them but to *everyone else* who could indirectly benefit from this suggestion.

 

 

Had you read what I said a bit more closely, you would have seen that I said almost the exact same thing. Claiming to do it for the new people IS a joke, because there ARE more adults that will be able to breed AND EACH of them will be able to breed up to 4 more each. The truth of the matter isnt that people want them for the "i made a mistake and should have never frozen that limited cb that I knew full well was limited" aspect, but because they want their mistake erased so they can exploit their little frozen assets to help them get more trades. New people are happy with anything they catch, until someone comes around and tells them their little gems are worthless because their lineage isn't "pretty" enough. Adding more cb holidays and "retired" breeds to the mix does no good, because the retired breeds are still retired, and holidays dont breed outside of their window.

 

 

I have cbs of most holidays, I froze cbs of most holidays, or GAVE my extra one away to users who had missed the event for whatever reason. Those were choices that I made purely because I didnt care about the gain I would get from them. Unless you have a cb holly, or cb prize to breed to, second gen holidays really arent worth much as trade fodder. Holiday bred lines are worthless to a lot of people outside of the breeding window, and even during the breeding window, its pretty difficult for me to gift people second gens. I cant tell you how many second gen hollies I have had people turn down over the years of catching and gifting them purely because people didnt like the /other/ breed it was bred to. Besides.. now that people can have more that two holidays.. I can guarentee that most people are going to go ahead and choose to get cb hollies as their HM prize.. so there will be up to 50 (or whatever the numbers are this year) NEW cbs hitting the system.

 

As for them being worthless as unbreedable adults... They were equally useless as frozen hatchys.

 

Yes, some changes have been made that allow you to change decisions that were made in the past: Renaming doesnt affect ratios, doesnt affect trading.. doesnt affect anyone other than you (unless you take a name you KNOW belonged to someone else who went inactive...). Zombie removal: Again, doesnt change ratios, doesnt affect anyone BUT you. Unfreezing and allowing those ex popcicles to breed.. that affects EVERYONE, even just indirectly.

 

Even if the breeds themselves will not count towards total ratios, those new babies suddenly being able to breed WILL affect /current/ ratios, especially since it seems that people like to focus on holiday/rares to get rares for trading. Even if by some change, every freshly unfrozen babies were to be bred to commons, those commons being bred would run the chance of changing the blockers in the cave. I would much rather see those blockers being changed by group efforts to /try/ to change them. My balloon and nocturne hoards both helped change them from blockers to uncommons for short periods of time, especially when some of the forum groups that focus on that switched to whatever I happened to be hoarding at the time. THAT is fun. It is fun trying to singlehandledly make a stupidly common breed go rare. If you dont believe me.. make a point to try to get 200 cbs of a caveblocker in a month raised to adult.. Sure, it starts out easy enough, but once you get other people raising them to hatchys, you WILL notice the drop in how often they drop in the cave. A single person with trade skills /can/ affect the cave. All of those stupidly common breeds suddenly being removed from the cave DO allow more uncommons and rares to drop. I would think people would rather see more cbs dropping than random messy lines being bred taking up the ratio slots...

 

 

So back to the point I was originally trying to make: There is no /good/ reason to allow unfreezing of old dragons. There are plenty of old holidays that were raised to adult, that do breed to the ap. There are enough cbs left that people will willingly breed their cbs to messy "ugly" lineages for /fun/. There are new cbs being added to the mix every time the raffle happens, so cb holidays are not going extinct. I cant see any reason to allow them to be breedable that doesnt break down to basic levels of greed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tawanda001]

With several thousand active players, I don't think that it's as small a number of CBs as you think....

(All numbers are very conservative estimates; I suspect that there are more, but I'm lowballing just in case.)

OTOH the bulk of those players are newer players, not so many were here to freeze CB yules or pumpkins. Could be a wash.

 

ETA quote for clarification, I type slow

Edited January 6, 2014 by Tawanda001

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The truth of the matter isnt that people want them for the "i made a mistake and should have never frozen that limited cb that I knew full well was limited" aspect, but because they want their mistake erased so they can exploit their little frozen assets to help them get more trades.

 

[...]

 

Unfreezing and allowing those ex popcicles to breed.. that affects EVERYONE, even just indirectly.

 

Even if the breeds themselves will not count towards total ratios, those new babies suddenly being able to breed WILL affect /current/ ratios, especially since it seems that people like to focus on holiday/rares to get rares for trading.

Excuse you! I gifted every 2g Christmas I bred this year and I would still like my other CB Christmases unfrozen. You know why? Not so I can trade, but so I can gift and further my own lineages. As has been said many times over, the vast majority of things that'd come up for unfreezing wouldn't have much trade value to begin with, and even those that do would likely be so limited in number as to hurt nothing much.

 

By that logic rare x rare breeding should've murdered the cave, as it ups the odds of a rare being produced. But it didn't. I hardly believe, again, that the number of things being produced would "break the cave." And even if it does tilt the ratios slightly, so what? They tilt this way and that way constantly anyway, and we've weathered it time and time again. I believe ratios readjust after a year anyway, so even if there was a sudden impact (which I doubt), after a year things would be pretty much back to status quo (although that changes all the time anyway, too).

Edited January 6, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Thuban]

Even considering that people want to be able to gift out more second gens.. the fact still remains that there ARE plenty of cbs out there dropping second gens to the ap. More cbs are happening every time there is a raffle.. though chances are that people are going to choose holly over any other holiday/rare choice they could possibly have. (edit: unless of course for some reason tins get added to the mix.. then people would choose tin over holly in a heartbeat)

 

Wanting to be able to gift more second gens isnt enough of a reason to allow for unfreezing. Cleaner lineages isnt enough of an excuse for it to convince me that its needed.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Thuban

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It's certainly not needed, any more than renaming, rare x rare breeding, or expunge were, but it would be nice. As you said, low-gen, clean Holidays are a far cry from going extinct, but from rooting around the AP this Christmas I certainly found a lot less than I was expecting (and saw more people looking for them than ever before), so even a few extra would be nice.

 

That being said--extra Holidays isn't the main reason for this. It's to give people a second chance, either due to changing circumstance (Holiday limits, breed discontinuation) or just due to changing opinions (frozen Coppers, Metals, even BSA dragons that at the time seemed alright to freeze, but are now missed). As long as it doesn't have a notably horrible effect on the cave, I see no reason to disallow it... and between all the anti-exploitation restrictions already piled on, the relative scarcity of frozen valuables, and the fact that many people asking for it honestly plan to gift most of what they gain, I don't think it would hurt the cave much at all.

Edited January 6, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Ashes The Second]

It's certainly not needed, any more than renaming, rare x rare breeding, or expunge were, but it would be nice. As you said, low-gen, clean Holidays are a far cry from going extinct, but from rooting around the AP this Christmas I certainly found a lot less than I was expecting (and saw more people looking for them than ever before), so even a few extra would be nice.

 

That being said--extra Holidays isn't the main reason for this. It's to give people a second chance, either due to changing circumstance (Holiday limits, breed discontinuation) or just due to changing opinions (frozen Coppers, Metals, even BSA dragons that at the time seemed alright to freeze, but are now missed). As long as it doesn't have a notably horrible effect on the cave, I see no reason to disallow it... and between all the anti-exploitation restrictions already piled on, the relative scarcity of frozen valuables, and the fact that many people asking for it honestly plan to gift most of what they gain, I don't think it would hurt the cave much at all.

But again, those don't affect other people. Ratios matter, and are important. You cannot disregard them. If a frozen hatchling cannot breed, why should its adult form be able to?

 

I'm with Thuban on this one -- it's just greedy, even if the greed leads to good intentions.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Ashes The Second

[Wymsical]

If a frozen hatchling cannot breed, why should its adult form be able to?

I don't really have an opinion on this whole subject either way, but this particular logic is just silly. Frozen hatchlings cannot breed because they are not fully mature, some of them so physically young that their owner is unable to figure out what gender it is.

[Thuban]

Rare/rare pairings opened the doors for more interesting pairings. No, they dont increase the rate of rares being bred, but they do guarentee that IF an egg happens, it will be rare.. which is why rare/rare pairings are pretty much worthless. Unfortunately, the drawback is that because rare/rare pairings guarentee that if the egg is going to happen it will be rare.. it slows down the ability of breeding to common dragons to get rare.

 

Expunge is a cute BSA.. but in the scale of things.. its right up there with earthquake and splash in terms of being a useless BSA. It doesnt affect anyone BUT you. Zombie ratios dont affect anything else going on..

 

Renaming: I was never against renaming. I was glad when that one happened. Until the moment when I realized people were specifically stalking well known dragons in hopes that their inactive owners would lose the names.. just so they could take them. One major benifit I've seen though is the ability to save names for those rough cb pairings you may be trading for to make cute lineage names (like my bronze Toes line for example, I was really excited to be able to transfer the name I saved to the cb balloon that the owner finally got a baby from).

 

And no, I dont feel sorry for those people who willingly froze cb rares thinking they were common. Golds and silvers normally are rare, but when I joined this game.. you couldnt /give/ cb silvers away.. and trying to gift second gens was like pulling teeth. They /were/ stupidly common for awhile.. so it made sense at the time to freeze them. Golds generally dont go stupidly common though. If you are worried that a new cb might go rare... dont freeze the cb. Just wait a week and breed a second gen to freeze... problem solved. I still /give/ away the cb coppers and blusangs when i catch them.. I give away cb metals when i catch them. I give away the low gen rares I find that I think are nice. I know enough to treat every new release like its going to be rare, and avoid freezing cbs. Shoot.. I give away third gen tins and shimmers when i breed them.

 

I'm sure i could come up with reasons that unfreezing should be a thing, if i cared enough to do so.. however at this point in time the only thing I am gathering is that people want it for personal gain. Be it just for gifting, like you.. or for trade fodder.. or for building personal lineages. Where is the overall benifit of this.. outside of wanting to flood the cave with what is considered "prettier" lineages?

[LaHaine]

Can someone explain to me how they would negatively affect ratios? x.x Dragons grow up and breed everyday. If they weren't frozen, they would be adults perfectly ok for breeding now. I don't see what's the problem with the ratios x.x

 

 

If a frozen hatchling cannot breed, why should its adult form be able to?

If a hatchling cannot breed, why are adults able to breed?

 

[Ashes The Second]

Can someone explain to me how they would negatively affect ratios? x.x Dragons grow up and breed everyday. If they weren't frozen, they would be adults perfectly ok for breeding now. I don't see what's the problem with the ratios x.x

 

 

 

If a hatchling cannot breed, why are adults able to breed?

No I'm talking about if the magic on the frozen hatchling was modified -- the dragon itself would be unable to breed -- sterility does exist, it should apply here. I'm not making myself clear, yeah, but you got the point, yes?

 

And it also allows you to understand that your argument could sound just as silly as mine did without further clarification.

 

Because you would suddenly have a lot of "unaccounted for" dragons that have no ability to breed able to breed. Countless hundreds if you have no limits placed on them -- the system has a set number of ratios for each breed it has to complete. By not expanding that to include the new dragons that just grew up, you are crushing the ratios under their own design.

[Syphoneira]

Lol, this is taking me forever to put together, and I'll be ninja-ed by snails...

 

 

Actually, while I obviously can't speak for everyone, the purpose of this from my viewpoint and that of everyone else of whom I've heard, was to allow people to let hatchies frozen under different circumstances grow up.

 

The effects include more 2nd-gen Holidays available for others, therefore benefiting new people, among others.

 

I don't believe it was officially specified by LibbyLishy or anyone that this was meant specifically FOR new people to benefit, merely that the people unFreezing these dragons would not be the only beneficiaries.

 

 

From LibbyLishy's OP:

 

How would the ability to unfreeze, with the proposed limitations, benefit the cave?

1. Players who froze a hatchling before a rule change (i.e. the ability to collect more than 2 of past holidays) would be able to alter the freezing based on new circumstances.

2. New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool and could collect non-discontinued sprites of a lower generation.

3. The action, instead of creating an exception for a certain group as was formerly suggested, would be available to everyone.

4. More congruent RP: If we're powerful enough mages to cast a spell of eternal youth, why wouldn't we be able to lift it?

5. Unfreezing would be forced upon no one; those who have frozen hatchlings who don't want to unfreeze them wouldn't have to. One person's decision to unfreeze would in no way affect the scroll of someone who didn't want to unfreeze.

 

 

I'll add this, also from the OP:

 

Please read at least this first post before responding. I know it's long, but it will tell you EVERYTHING that has been discussed so far. Many of the concerns regarding abuse, including exploitation for trading, insta-adults, and overuse have been heavily discussed already and excellent solutions have been proposed. These ideas have been outlined in this post, which I am trying to keep updated as new ideas come in.

 

 

 

 

 

I and everyone else that I currently/periodically interact with (other than newer people, where this is N/A) on a personal level on DC typically gifts Holiday offspring, with the exception of some Hollies (I have always gifted my Holly offspring, as do many others) and some Halloweens (I generally have gifted everything except the Marrows, which form one of my obsessions, and anything AP-caught needed as mates).

 

I can't imagine anyone asking a CB Gold for anything but a nicely lineaged Holly, although blood-swaps will probably now become frequent - and help to annually increase the breeding pool with their annually bred offspring.

 

I - like many others - don't like the idea of personally trading (may blood-swap in future, and ultimately add more to the breeding pool) in Christmas/Valentine Holiday offspring and I don't see why anyone would pay a CB Gold for dragons so readily available free, whether on the AP, through direct gifting or on the Departure Boards.

 

 

I was also wondering why anyone was concerned about rare ratios being affected.

 

I seriously doubt that many people would have Frozen CB Golds I've seen referred to as potentially affecting ratios, and I would think that anyone doing so would be far more likely to be a fast catcher with many unFrozen CB Golds than the odd newer person unaware of what they were Freezing at the time, so unlikely to have these as a priority.

 

And, frankly, even if 2nd gens were all that valuable compared to CBs, Golds don't breed very well to begin with... I suspect that the addition of bred 2nd gens from unFrozen CB Golds would be unlikely to significantly affect the ratios, although of course only TJ can formulate an informed prediction of the degree of potential for this.

 

 

Please remember that the consensus is for a month-long cooldown for any person's scroll, and that if the 31-day month is used, 11 dragons would be the maximum that any person could unFreeze in a year.

 

The greatest purpose of this is directed at people gaining the ability to (edit:unFreeze) CB Holidays which would not have been Frozen had it been known that the allowance of breds would someday be increased, and these are most likely to form by far the greatest population affected.

 

The length of time suggested that a hatchie must have been Frozen prior to being dis-spelled runs up to a year.

 

Every manner in which this could potentially be exploited is being addressed with great competence by LibbyLishy and others.

 

 

Dropping more 2nd gen Holidays to the AP is not the reason this Suggestion was started, it's merely one of multiple beneficial factors involved.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Thuban]

Can someone explain to me how they would negatively affect ratios? x.x Dragons grow up and breed everyday. If they weren't frozen, they would be adults perfectly ok for breeding now. I don't see what's the problem with the ratios x.x

 

 

 

If a hatchling cannot breed, why are adults able to breed?

The unfrozen babies themselves would /not/ affect the ratios. Ratios are reset every year, and the existing once from the years before no longer count.

 

The problem is that the babies they breed /do/ count. So lets assume that every person who chooses to unfreeze a cb holiday, chooses to breed them to cb golds. Suddenly theres all these golds being bred.. which lowers the chances of those people breeding cb golds to balloons for example getting golds. No, breeding to holidays doesnt increase your chance of getting rares, but it DOES guarentee that IF you get an egg it will be rare. Because of that, there are no common fail babies going to the AP to help even out the common to rare ratio. If there arent enough commons being bred/raised.. then commons become overly abundant, making it even harder to get rares and uncommons from your breedings. Every gold bred to a holiday that results in an egg, is one less gold that is getting bred from a common line and one less common being chucked into the ap.

 

Unfreezing retired breeds would do /nothing/ to help ratios. All that would do is provide one more pretty lineage that can be tossed to the ap. Frills pretend to be rares, so breeding to frill with a rare is pretty much guarenteeing a rare, just like holiday breedings. Breeding to old pink at least has the draw back of breeding pink eggs.. and if enough old pinks are unfrozen and breeding, they /could/ have potential to make pinks rare for awhile. I see no positive to this either.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

At the proposed rate of about 11 possible unfreezings per year (as Syphoniera said--good point, forgot that), I doubt ratios would be hurting even more than I already doubted they'd be hurting.

 

People already have plenty of CB Holidays in the forms of Halloweens and non-frozen CB Holidays and, for some, even CB Frills to breed Golds too. A few more isn't going to break the game, not by a long shot, especially when 1) not many people freeze to begin with, 2) there's such a limit on unfreezing and 3) not everyone will breed them to Golds anyway.

Edited January 6, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Thuban]

At the proposed rate of about 11 possible unfreezings per year (as Syphoniera said--good point, forgot that), I doubt ratios would be hurting even more than I already doubted they'd be hurting.

If there are 17k active scrolls and each of those active scrolls has at least one cb holiday to unfreeze, then its 17k frozen babies that have the potential of breeding that DIDN'T have a chance to before. Even if just 10k of those chose to instead to unfreeze a cb retired breed.. its still 10k more adults suddenly breeding that weren't before.. opening the door for 10k more commons to suddenly flood the ap because people want to be /nice/.

 

If each of those people have something they want to unfreeze every month, that has potential to be over 100k new adults being added to the system over the course of a year, that would have been unable to breed otherwise...

How is that NOT affecting ratios??

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If there are 17k active scrolls and each of those active scrolls has at least one cb holiday to unfreeze, then its 17k frozen babies that have the potential of breeding that DIDN'T have a chance to before. Even if just 10k of those chose to instead to unfreeze a cb retired breed.. its still 10k more adults suddenly breeding that weren't before.. opening the door for 10k more commons to suddenly flood the ap because people want to be /nice/.

 

If each of those people have something they want to unfreeze every month, that has potential to be over 100k new adults being added to the system over the course of a year, that would have been unable to breed otherwise...

How is that NOT affecting ratios??

Because people are already adding dozens of new dragons to their scrolls every month...? Seriously, I fail to see how one dragon a month is somehow going to be more harmful than the 30+ most of us are already collecting every month. Maybe not every one of those 30+ are destined to be bred, but I'd be willing to bet most people are picking up at least a handful of things they want to breed every month--which, again, would vastly outnumber the amount of frozens, even if every unfrozen thing is being bred every week (which is another unlikely--how many commons from Holidays do you see outside of the few weeks around their breeding season? I hunt the AP and barely see any).

 

Also remember that these are things people already had. It'd be pretty sad if the cave didn't have a way to deal with a situation in which people might not have chosen to freeze those things to begin with.

Edited January 6, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy