ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[HeatherMarie]

The only change I would suggest for the raffle is that players who have already won a prize dragon be excluded. They already have a unique cb dragon that nobody else can have in its cb form.

I *want* to say I agree with this.... It's definitely the most fair suggestion I've seen in this entire thread.

 

But, okay, say someone who won a Tinsel is excluded from this year's raffle. But this year's prize dragon is a completely *new* dragon, not a Tinsel. So just because this person, by complete chance, won a Tinsel one year, they now aren't even eligible for this brand new dragon?

 

I still think the whole point of a raffle is that *everyone* who enters has a chance to win. I think it should stay the way it is.

(Or, if this is really such a huge deal to people, do away with the raffles all together)

[TheGrox]

You're also missing the point of the analogy.

 

Like I said, it only took me a few hours from account creation to my first CB gold. By the logic in this thread (ie. that precious things should go mostly to those who are likely to remain active) the prevailing mentality is that I shouldn't have him. That I didn't deserve to have him because I was new and I hadn't raised anything yet. That because I was new and therefore more likely to leave after a short time, and because he was precious, I shouldn't have had him. Or that if I was to have him, that I should be watched to make sure that I would eventually serve as a well-behaved little egg-vending machine for the masses and "appreciate" him by "contributing".

 

And that's not a nice mentality to have toward newbies.

 

At all.

To be honest, your analogy isn't all that relevant. Whilst rare, there will always be more CB Golds, prizes are limited.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not sure how some of you can argue so forcefully that newbies shouldn't be excluded from raffles, then argue that previous winners should. I'm not sure where I stand on this - maybe previous winners should be excluded if it is the same prize as they have already won, but not if it is a new prize?

Edited December 30, 2012 by TheGrox

[Lythiaren]

To be honest, your analogy isn't all that relevant. Whilst rare, there will always be more CB Golds, prizes are limited.

Read the post again, it's edited to show exactly how it's an appropriate analogy. Also, pointing out how "your analogy isn't relevant because [minor factoid that is beside the point]" so easily equates to "you should shut up because shut up is why".

 

Low Gen Tinsels are also always available. CB tinsels are analogous to the cave pumping out golds, especially since so many of the CB owners gift their eggs or AP-drop them.

 

That said, no one's said yet if HMs will be able to pick tinsels this year. So going by current knowledge there will always be more of them too.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Lythiaren

[rayden54]

To be honest, your analogy isn't all that relevant. Whilst rare, there will always be more CB Golds, prizes are limited.

It isn't about the "rarity" of the dragon. It's about the attitude of the people.

[Lythiaren]

It isn't about the "rarity" of the dragon. It's about the attitude of the people.

Hit the nail on the head. :3

[Pokemonfan13]

I *want* to say I agree with this.... It's definitely the most fair suggestion I've seen in this entire thread.

 

But, okay, say someone who won a Tinsel is excluded from this year's raffle. But this year's prize dragon is a completely *new* dragon, not a Tinsel. So just because this person, by complete chance, won a Tinsel one year, they now aren't even eligible for this brand new dragon?

 

I still think the whole point of a raffle is that *everyone* who enters has a chance to win. I think it should stay the way it is.

(Or, if this is really such a huge deal to people, do away with the raffles all together)

The other side is, they already have an incredibly valuable dragon that they could use to trade for 2nd gens of the new prize, and might even be contacted by the new winners who want to get 2nd gen tinsels, which gives them a great advantage over the rest of us.

Plus the "they already have the money printing machine" argument, which is related.

 

Sure, they wouldn't be able to get a new CB prize, but they can get 2nd gens infinitely easier than everyone else.

[IvyJaclyn]

I *want* to say I agree with this.... It's definitely the most fair suggestion I've seen in this entire thread.

 

But, okay, say someone who won a Tinsel is excluded from this year's raffle. But this year's prize dragon is a completely *new* dragon, not a Tinsel. So just because this person, by complete chance, won a Tinsel one year, they now aren't even eligible for this brand new dragon?

 

I still think the whole point of a raffle is that *everyone* who enters has a chance to win. I think it should stay the way it is.

(Or, if this is really such a huge deal to people, do away with the raffles all together)

I know it's a completely new dragon, but previous winners already have a cb dragon that nobody else will ever have (unless TJ changes things). The fact that this is a completely new dragon doesn't change that fact. It's only fair to other players who do not have such unique dragons that previous winners be eliminated.

[athdaraxen]

Plus the "they already have the money printing machine" argument, which is related.

 

Sure, they wouldn't be able to get a new CB prize, but they can get 2nd gens infinitely easier than everyone else.

Unless the person who wins the "new" prize doesn't like Tinsels.

 

/hides

 

Though I do agree, they already have one CB no one else will have.

 

I'll be the first to admit, jealousy does play a hand in it for me. Don't get me wrong, if I don't win I don't win but then somebody wins not once, but twice? I'd throw in the towel.

Edited December 30, 2012 by athdaraxen

[IvyJaclyn]

Unless the person who wins the "new" prize doesn't like Tinsels.

 

/hides

Even if they don't like tinsels, they could trade for a 2nd gen and then easily trade that for a neglected or cb metal.

[athdaraxen]

Even if they don't like tinsels, they could trade for a 2nd gen and then easily trade that for a neglected or cb metal.

I know, it was more of a joke.

[Pokemonfan13]

Unless the person who wins the "new" prize doesn't like Tinsels.

 

/hides

Everyone who wins would have to not like tinsels for that to apply. Plus, because they have the money printing machine they have lots of things to breed to trade, or can trade for CB metals etc to trade, unless they were exceptionally generous with their tinsel babies and don't want to ever "exploit" them. x3

[rayden54]

I know it's a completely new dragon, but previous winners already have a cb dragon that nobody else will ever have (unless TJ changes things). The fact that this is a completely new dragon doesn't change that fact. It's only fair to other players who do not have such unique dragons that previous winners be eliminated.

No, it's only fair to give everyone the same chance of winning regardless of whether they've won or not.

Edited December 30, 2012 by rayden54

[Reidragon]

That said, no one's said yet if HMs will be able to pick tinsels this year. So going by current knowledge there will always be more of them too.

Actually no one knows if there will be HM's at all All that was stated was that winners would receive a new never before released prize dragon. No information was given on how many would be given out or if there would be gold, silver, bronze, and HM levels.

 

For all we know a set number could just be given the new prizes and that is it :3

 

[TheGrox]

One other thing is, whilst I like the idea of a raffle, it does somewhat create an elitist group of DC users. A lot of tinsel owners only trade 2nd gens for other 2nd gens. When new prizes come out, their new owners (ones that remain active anyway xP) will probably only accept 2nd gen Tinsels for their 2nd gens. This increasingly marginalises all the other players who think, like I once did, that it would be impossible to get a 2nd gen. Of course not all owners are like that, but my point still stands.

 

Here's a somewhat radical idea:

 

Why not just REMOVE prizes altogether, and just have a whole lot of HM's? That way, people can get a special dragon that they want - like a CB Holly or maybe a Frill that they missed - without the fuss of limited CB Prizes.

 

Maybe that's a weird and totally stupid idea, I'm not sure...

Edited December 30, 2012 by TheGrox

[IvyJaclyn]

I'll be the first to admit, jealousy does play a hand in it for me. Don't get me wrong, if I don't win I don't win but then somebody wins not once, but twice? I'd throw in the towel.

This. Exactly this. Of course, I want to win, but if I don't then it's no skin off my nose. There will be other opportunities in the future. But if someone should win after already beaten the odds and won, then it's not fair to people who have never won. Old winners already have the ability to trade for pretty much anything they want, including offspring of the new prizes.

[athdaraxen]

No, it's only fair to give everyone the same chance of winning regardless of whether they've won or not.

You know, now that I've gone and done a bit of searching and some thinking.

 

In the US, did you know people can win the lottery more than once? (I never thought about it until now.)And I'm talking the big Millions of millions of dollars ones. There is no rule stating you can't win more than once. My first thought was I bet they can't win again once they've won, but as it turns out they can in fact win again, as many times as they are lucky enough to.

 

It is rather unfair to limit them. As I said above my own jealousy was playing a part in my opinion. It really isn't fair to exclude them, plus when you think about it the chances are rather slim that they would win a second time.

 

Sorry for being so flip-floppy. I think better while typing it out. /fails

Edited December 30, 2012 by athdaraxen

[Pokemonfan13]

Then think of it this way. How outraged would the entire forum be if someone who already had a prize dragon won another one, even if it is a different dragon? It's still like giving the person running a country's money printing machines [who can take as much as they like] a machine that can make flawless gemstones too. They already literally have a mint, why should they get even more?

 

Sure, some people will be happy for them, but I can easily imagine the rest [call them greedy if you like] seeing it as totally unfair that they should have two incredibly rare, incredibly special dragons when other people have none. I know that I couldn't help being outraged if it happened.

[blah]

Hm, like with most things, I can see both sides.

 

Many people are excited for a new dragon, regardless of whether they own it or how/if it can be obtained. At least that's how I feel, I'm just curious because yay, new dragon!

 

Of course I'd rather see them in the hands of people who name them, describe them and breed them so I can admire them in lineages and maybe one day obtain my own. I really don't think this is selfish, I find it natural on a collecting site

 

But - here comes the but - I don't think increasing the chances for older players is an adequate way to ensure the new dragons end up with the kind of people I described above. Every old player was a new player on his first day.

 

Moreover, just because I'd like things to go a certain way that doesn't mean I have a right to demand they actually do go this way when the advantage isn't an advatage for everyone.

[TheGrox]

The chances of someone winning twice are so slim that I don't think it's even worth all of the consideration it is getting at the moment to be honest.

 

It would be interesting though, if someone won two different prizes. They could breed them together, and we could all trade our souls and multiple CB metals for the offspring! xP

 

 

Edit: angelicdragonpuppy lol, I have been training my ninja skills for this very moment

Edited December 30, 2012 by TheGrox

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Then think of it this way.  How outraged would the entire forum be if someone who already had a prize dragon won another one, even if it is a different dragon?  It's still like giving the person running a country's money printing machines [who can take as much as they like] a machine that can make flawless gemstones too.  They already literally have a mint, why should they get even more?

The chances of someone winning twice are so exceedingly low that I don't think it's worth the work on TJ's part to exclude them, ahaha.

 

Edit: OMG Grox, perfect ninja! X'D

Edited December 30, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[drabrugon]

I still think that making prizes unbreedable would solve the whole problem. Nobody would be jealous anymore if no offspring can be traded. I think PF has the best proof on her scroll.

 

Excluding Tinsel winners from the raffle is unfair, too, because this years prize is not a Tinsel. The discussion in this thread leads to nothing.

[Rally Vincent]

Plus the "they already have the money printing machine" argument, which is related.

 

Sure, they wouldn't be able to get a new CB prize, but they can get 2nd gens infinitely easier than everyone else.

There are more then a few players who produce Neglecteds like on an assembly line. They produce so many that they sometimes gift them away, but if they wanted, they could cash in CB metals. If DC cash machine is a reason to exclude players from a raffle, exclude them as well? Exclude players with spriter's alts - they can charge more for their2nd gens, right? And while you're at it, exclude those who already have CB metals on their scroll - they got theirs, they don't have the need for a cash machine.

 

This whole argument comes down to: Lower the chances of some to increase the chances of others. Anyone who thinks that is correct has a weird understanding of the term equality.

 

 

[Lythiaren]

Actually no one knows if there will be HM's at all All that was stated was that winners would receive a new never before released prize dragon. No information was given on how many would be given out or if there would be gold, silver, bronze, and HM levels.

 

For all we know a set number could just be given the new prizes and that is it :3

Ow my actually'd.

 

Why wouldn't there be HMs drawn? Christmas prize things remain the only way to obtain a CB holly, for instance.

 

Also if all raffle prizes become HMs I'd withdraw permission for frills to be honest. Permission was given so that those few who loved them so dearly could have them. Not so they could be produced en masse again.

[athdaraxen]

Then think of it this way.  How outraged would the entire forum be if someone who already had a prize dragon won another one, even if it is a different dragon?  It's still like giving the person running a country's money printing machines [who can take as much as they like] a machine that can make flawless gemstones too.  They already literally have a mint, why should they get even more?

 

Sure, some people will be happy for them, but I can easily imagine the rest [call them greedy if you like] seeing it as totally unfair that they should have two incredibly rare, incredibly special dragons when other people have none.  I know that I couldn't help being outraged if it happened.

I agree, while I now see its unfair to limit them, but for the sake of public outrage, maybe they should be limited? Its as you said, people would riot. The thought honestly scares me as I've seen how crazy things can get on the forum in a short amount of time. *shivers*

 

@Lythiaren

I'd be sad if you pulled your permission, I always wanted a Frill. I always found them cute. Honestly I'd probably get a Frill over a CB Prize, much less drama that way. <3

Edited December 30, 2012 by athdaraxen

[Reidragon]

Here's a somewhat radical idea:

 

Why not just REMOVE prizes altogether, and just have a whole lot of HM's? That way, people can get a special dragon that they want - like a CB Holly or maybe a Frill that they missed - without the fuss of limited CB Prizes.

 

Maybe that's a weird and totally stupid idea, I'm not sure...

Here's an even more radical one.

 

How about we remove prizes ALL TOGETHER. Since it seems obvious that users can't agree on any point. No matter what is said someone will scream unfair. How about we stop the whole mess in it's tracks now?

 

Not that that is fair to the users who don't use the forums and participate in the feeling of entitlement and greed that seems to go hand in hand with these sort of things, but it wouldn't be the first thing the forum has ruined for everyone else. xP