ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[drabrugon]

Seems like most people can not deal with the existence of the prizes. In my opinion that is the actual problem, sad but true. The simple fact is that people are jealous!

 

And now they want to increase their chances to win a prize themselves, but for what? Trading its offspring for souls and hundreds of CB Metallics?! I think this is more true than the lineage-project-argument or why should something that is so fair as a raffle is should be changed?! I can't even understand why people are complaining about fairness.

 

It would be unfair to exclude players from a raffle or giving others an advantage over others. A long time player is not better than a newbie and when somebody who won a prize quits the game it is fine even if the prize is lost. That is the way this game is, people come and go. Why not giving a newbie the chance to get rares by trading the offspring of a prize they win? Those who have been here for years have everything on their scrolls there is to collect. Why giving them an advantage more?

 

I am perfectly aware that most of the Tinsel owners are more than generous, but this is also the point that makes the existence of this thread a shame. Or am I wrong when I say that Tinsels spread in a short time and now everybody who wants one has one? There is no difference who win them. But no, people want to have CBs or low gens and they do not want to see them on other peoples scrolls, they want to have them on theirs. That is what all this is about, isn't it?!

 

There are only three solutions that would work:

 

1. not giving out prizes

2. giving out prizes to everybody

3. making them unbreedable

 

 

And there is another thing I would like to bring up. Are those who are complaining that Tinsels are not bred anymore sure that they are on scrolls from people who left the game? In my opinion their is a small chance that some winners got rude PMs of jealous people and qiut because of this. It looks like giving out prizes is not a good idea because it causes drama no matter if you win or not.

Edited December 29, 2012 by drabrugon

[whitebaron]

EARNING admission is not a concept I appreciate. I am all for open admission as long as you fulfil the criteria set for admission.

 

Here, that is supplying a valid email address and agreeing to the ToS, basically.

all grox is talking about, is raising that barrier.

 

I am a new player and would not mind being excluded from the raffle.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[HeatherMarie]

Last I checked anyone with a computer and Internet access was allowed to make a DC account. They signed up, put in their email and everything. Your scroll is your membership card. They are members of this site.

THIS THIS THIS.

 

You sign up, put in your email, make a password, and you have a scroll. THAT is considered "being a member of this site". NOWHERE on the site does it say that you aren't an official member until you raise your first dragons, or get your first trophy, or whatever random limit you want to put on them.

 

Newbies are JUST as much "a part" of this site as people who've been here for three years. And people who've been here multiple years are JUST as likely to suddenly leave or take a break, as newbies are.

 

I agree with others, this whole thread sounds like "only people who can be counted on to stick around and breed for others" should be allowed to win. And that's crap. You want to talk about unfair? THAT is unfair.

[Rally Vincent]

that's a completely invalid assumption that only sounds nice.

 

a raffle has entry conditions, and if those are different, it still is fai.

 

Else, you should request that every holiday dragon i don't have a cb (before lurkers), every retired dragon i don't have (frill, pink) should be purged from the site.

Why? Because it isn't fair that i can't get them anymore. Logic sounds weird? Yes, to me too. Saying that limiting Raffles to older players isn't fair, is more of the same weird argument.

 

Overall, as a newer player, I find it crazy as hell that oldtime players argue for my sake, without knowing anymore how newer players DO feel about it.

Your example is invalid. Anyone who was playing at that time had the same chances like everyone else to acquire these breeds. The OP suggests to make chances for acquiration different in the first place. That's apples and pears.

 

You didn't get former holidays because you weren't there, not because you had lower chances to get them. It is the same with anyone joining after Jan 2nd 2013 cannot get tickets for the current raffle. It is a different factor that prevents you from getting former holiday CBs.

 

Oh, and just FYI: Equality includes your fate, but it doesn't equal it. If we start shifting weights to certain players, it'll become a teacher's pet game.

[Dubious]

I think it would be rather nice if more prizes were given out. Therefore increasing everyones chances of winning one, even just a little.

 

Rather then just 18 or 30 (I think that is the amount), somethng more like 50 would be nice, or 100.

 

Not sure how mnay active players there are, but I imagine it is at least 40,000, so that is still a drop in the ocean.

 

Either way, I am still looking forward to a year of gathering and trading for the off spring of these brand new prize dragons.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Dubious

[Sturmschwinge]

Winning a prize shouldn't be an obligation. They certainly don't owe you anything.

 

New players have as much right to win as anyone else. You just want to raise the odds that YOU will win. That's hardly fair. If you think it is, then how about this instead, "No one who's been here more than a year can win" After all, you've had your chance already.

 

Punishing new players for being new is the best way to not HAVE any new players.

This! Do you really think you are more entitled to a prize because you are playing this game longer than other people? I'm pretty disgusted by this idea.

[Psykotika]

please check your facts. a raffle is by no definition open to everyone, it can be, but it mustn't be. private raffles are most likely more common than public ones, with many being held in rather small, private audiences, like sports clubs doing a xmas raffle for their members, or even just to decide which kid of yours gets the one last yellow candy.

 

 

it's not unfair to have any limitations on entering a raffle. it's just what it is, a limitation, most of the time based on a common assumption. if you ever turn up at our xmas raffle at the sports club, you'll likely be thrown out, or maybe just laughed at. the base assumption on dc is: you have to be a dc player.

 

i fully support this assumption.

i partially support the assumption that a player who has not yet won his bronze trophy is already a part of DC. hes not. it's like a one time visitor who trains two weeks with you. membership has to be earned, be it here or anywhere else in the world. bronze trophy is a good way to do this.

I don't agree that new players should have no chance to win a prize. They signed up, they're here, they may stay here for a long time or a short time, but this actually doesn't matter, I actually agree wholeheartedly with what schmupti said:

On the flip side, I DON'T care if you win and leave as soon as you win. It's not my place to decide if you're 'worthy' of your randomly selected prize.

 

While it's a bummer not to have won, trying to declare previous winners unworthy because they didn't stick around/play often enough/breed often enough/etc. suggests that we feel entitled to that prize, and if we don't get it, they at least owe it to us to prove that they properly appreciate it.

 

They don't. They don't owe us anything. It's a prize, not a promise.

 

However I really do think that those players who've played for years and years have EARNED a chance at a few more raffle tickets through their dedication. Not enough to skew the thing completely, but, like I said a page page, perhaps one per trophy level.

See, the way raffles work in the real world is that anyone who wants to buys a ticket. Those who want to buy more tickets, buy more tickets. However buying more tickets means spending more money. Money is something you work for, something you earn. Therefore, the more tickets you purchase, the more money you spend, and the more money you spend the longer and harder you have worked to earn that money.

As a parallel, how can you say it's unfair to give a few more chances to someone who has put in a lot of time and effort to earn a higher trophy level? (and I do mean a few, I do NOT agree at all that older players should have a largely greater chance to win) And I especially do not think that any group of players should be excluded from the raffle.

 

 

Here's another thought, putting aside the trophy level concept for a moment, since it might be argued that having the higher amount of scroll limits per trophy level is all that should be earned through trophy levels. There is also the possibility of having a more difficult and challenging task to accomplish to gain some extra raffle tickets. That would NOT be dependant on length of time a person has spent on the site, however it would require the determination of someone who really wants to get the prize dragon. I'd be for something like this.

Although as I said before I'm much more pleased with how this year's raffle tickets were accumulated than any year's previous.

 

E: Sorry if I'm being presumptuous about what newer players want whitebaron >.>; I just don't feel it's right to exclude anyone

Edited December 29, 2012 by Psykotika

[Pokemonfan13]

The point of having bronze trophy be the "membership" ticket is to limit the possible winners to the people who will actually care. From what I can tell DC has a rather large turnover of new members who join, play for a little while, then leave because they're bored. Very few of those would get a bronze trophy.

 

I'm not saying "winners must breed!!" although I do think it's a shame if they don't. [i'm big on spreading the love, which is why I breed all my rare dragons and gift a decent percentage of the offspring] I'm saying "Let's try to increase the chances that the prizes will go to people who will appreciate them.". Because let's face it, how many non-bronze trophy members will even realize what they have? How many of them, if they have forum accounts, would be immediately scared away by the flood of begging [and the inevitable demanding and rude] PMs they're bound to get? I strongly suspect that the more established members would be more likely to be resilient and ride the wave of PMs rather than being washed away by them.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Also on the note of the missing Tinsels, correct me if I'm wrong but did the prize winners have the choice between a Tinsel or whatever dragon they wanted? So maybe the missing ones are people who didn't want them? If I remember right, if you didn't want it it got passed down or something like that, maybe nobody wanted them? (for my own curiosity here!)

They had a choice, but as you said, if you didn't want them someone else could opt in to take them. Note that there are 3 Gold Tinsels missing. I find it very unlikely that they would've run the whole line of winners AND HMs and still been rejected.

[Reidragon]

I honestly pray that in other years this whole 'prize' scenario is done away with just so that the needless drama will finally die. But then you know I am sure that someone will find something else to scream unfair about. They do every event and release after all.

 

It comes down to people being greedy and feeling entitled. Two things that are wrong with the country I live in as a whole.

 

You know everyday I get more and more disenchanted with the users on these forums. I will still continue to play Dc but I think my life would be a heck of a lot less stressful without all the drama that this forum injects into the site.

 

It's a poisonous place for the most part and this thread just highlights that fact. I'm going to go back to playing the game without forum involvement for my own sanity.

[Fuzzbucket]

Seems like most people can not deal with the existence of the prizes. In my opinion that is the actual problem, sad but true. The simple fact is that people are jealous!

 

And now they want to increase their chances to win a prize themselves, but for what? Trading its offspring for souls and hundreds of CB Metallics?! I think this is more true than the lineage-project-argument or why should something that is so fair as a raffle is should be changed?! I can't even understand why people are complaining about fairness.

 

It would be unfair to exclude players from a raffle or giving others an advantage over others. A long time player is not better than a newbie and when somebody who won a prize quits the game it is fine even if the prize is lost. That is the way this game is, people come and go. Why not giving a newbie the chance to get rares by trading the offspring of a prize they win? Those who have been here for years have everything on their scrolls there is to collect. Why giving them an advantage more?

 

I am perfectly aware that most of the Tinsel owners are more than generous, but this is also the point that makes the existence of this thread a shame. Or am I wrong when I say that Tinsels spread in a short time and now everybody who wants one has one? There is no difference who win them. But no, people want to have CBs or low gens and they do not want to see them on other peoples scrolls, they want to have them on theirs. That is what all this is about, isn't it?!

Yes. Sad, indeed.

 

I don't care if we have prizes or not. But I do want everyone who has a scroll to have an equal chance at any that there are. And I do NOT want to see any that involve subjective judging ever again.

 

More. numerically, might be nice - since I gather there are thousands of active players, and someone said almost a quarter of a million in total. May even be more by now.

 

Oh and as an aside (as there were posts between) I thought the recipes were hugely amusing and I would have done them anyway. You wouldn't believe how many I have still made up there in my kitchen I think there were 8 gingerbread houses at one point, till I cooked some with other things and got a mess...

Edited December 29, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Lythiaren]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Snowytoshi]

I think it would be rather nice if more prizes were given out. Therefore increasing everyones chances of winning one, even just a little.

 

Rather then just 18 or 30 (I think that is the amount), somethng more like 50 would be nice, or 100.

 

Not sure how mnay active players there are, but I imagine it is at least 40,000, so that is still a drop in the ocean.

I'm a bit confused as to why we need more prizes? I certainly don't have any complaint about there being more chances, just so long as it is fair to everyoe. I''m just confused as to why we need more chnaces in the first place.

 

And to people who are saying that younger players are more likely to leave, I believe that older players are more likely to be bored with the game and leave. I have seen enough users complaing about the lack of excitement to assume that older users do leave because of this. Not to mention some of them may percieve themselves as too old for it. So why don't we limit their raffle tickets?

[arenee1999]

You know everyday I get more and more disenchanted with the users on these forums. I will still continue to play Dc but I think my life would be a heck of a lot less stressful without all the drama that this forum injects into the site.

 

It's a poisonous place for the most part and this thread just highlights that fact. I'm going to go back to playing the game without forum involvement for my own sanity.

I left for 6 months for that exact reason. Now that I'm back, not only has nothing changed but a few thing have become worse.

[Dubious]

I think that limiting the raffle entry to trophy holders is a good idea and is completely fair, in fact more fair then the current system. It would narrow the field down a bit to the more dedicated members of DC and it would provide incentive for new folks to stay around and collect in order to be eligable to enter.

 

I know at least 30 folks, no exaggeration, who joined here and left after getting bored. Those were the folks sent over from my own website. We all came over after a member raved about DC. Of them all, I am the only one that has stuck around for years.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Dubious

[Sturmschwinge]

I left for 6 months for that exact reason. Now that I'm back, not only has nothing changed but a few thing have become worse.

I was more active in this forum when I started playing this game. Now ... not so much. For the very same reasons.

[athdaraxen]

They had a choice, but as you said, if you didn't want them someone else could opt in to take them. Note that there are 3 Gold Tinsels missing. I find it very unlikely that they would've run the whole line of winners AND HMs and still been rejected.

Ok, just checking. I couldn't really remember. I didn't give it much thought as I was pretty sure I'd never win, don't get me wrong it would have been awesome, but I was very doubtful.

 

But even if its highly unlikely, given some of the CB Tinsel horror stories I've heard maybe they did in fact opt out due to fear of an onslaught of beggars and things, but than again this is just all speculation on my part. *runs off*

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It would be nice if people would stop throwing around accusations of their fellow players being greedy savages. I gift almost everything I breed. I'm also in support of limiting raffles to people who have been active for a few months. Does that make me some selfish jerk? :/

 

@Snowytoshi: More winners is nice for two reasons: first and foremost, more chances to win (woot!), and secondly, with a higher CB Prize population, there's less pressure on any single prize owner to breed AND there's less damage to the population when one of those dragon's owners quits the game.

Edited December 29, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Snowytoshi]

It would be nice if people would stop throwing around accusations of their fellow players being greedy savages. I gift almost everything I breed. I'm also in support of limiting raffles to people who have been active for a few months. Does that make me some selfish jerk? :/

Why do you want it to be limited then?

[Fuzzbucket]

I am a greedy savage and now I am going to bed

 

But if I had won last year I would have gone for a frill, so there Given that I cannot have my most wanted want, an old pink ! I WANT more CB frills, I do I do. And a frozen S1 hatchie.

 

REALLY I want to BREED them, too.

 

Oh I am so GREEDY.

[Pokemonfan13]

Ditto Angelic. Apart from trading between other winners at first to collect some 2nd gens, if I won I would gift pretty much ALL of the offspring. Why? There's nothing I need any more except for new release IOUs. And yet I support restricting the list of possible winners to those who have shown enough dedication to the site to get a bronze trophy.

[StormWizard212]

I am definitely not for excluding people from raffles based on how new they are, how many dragons they have, how many eggs they've killed, etc. It's a Christmas raffle after all and that's not really in the Christmas spirit.

 

What I would be all for, however, is an opportunity for people (anyone who wants to) to up their chances of winning by earning more raffle tickets for themselves. Other than the events and things that would subsequently exclude certain people (eg. length of membership, total number of dragons) I don't really know what to suggest, but if anyone else had any suggestions I'd definitely like to hear them. I think a raffle is still fair if some people have a different chance than others, so long as everyone has the opportunity to put in the work to earn the increased chance. That way it's not actively excluding anyone, if that makes sense. It would be up to the individual to analyze how much they wanted it and whether the extra chance was worth the extra effort on their part.

 

The other thing I don't support is giving a prize dragon to everyone. I wouldn't mind an increased number of CB prize dragons awarded (if the prize dragons kept changing every year or two so they don't get too over populated). Like PF13 said, even if there were 100 given out, they'd still be very rare for quite a while.

 

But again, I wouldn't like to see any changes made that would exclude people for whatever reason from participating and having a chance to win as well.

Edited December 29, 2012 by StormWizard212

[Lythiaren]

I'm not saying "winners must breed!!" although I do think it's a shame if they don't. [i'm big on spreading the love, which is why I breed all my rare dragons and gift a decent percentage of the offspring]  I'm saying "Let's try to increase the chances that the prizes will go to people who will appreciate them.".

The problem is that an awful lot of people in this thread claim that not breeding it means you don't appreciate it.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Dubious]

@Snowytoshi: More winners is nice for two reasons: first and foremost, more chances to win (woot!), and secondly, with a higher CB Prize population, there's less pressure on any single prize owner to breed AND there's less damage to the population when one of those dragon's owners quits the game.

Exactly! Well said.

[Coronaviridae]

The problem is that an awful lot of people in this thread claim that not breeding it means you don't appreciate it.

QFT.

 

To the point people on the forums of are keeping lists of who has and hasn't bred their tinsels, so they can develop a profile of a well-behaved prize winner to support their argument that prizes should be restricted to <x> group.

 

No. Thanks, but no. If there's anything I'd ask TJ out of this entire argument, it would be for better privacy for scrolls.